From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 10:00:15 2007 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:00:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Roadside traders march against eviction move Message-ID: <3457ce860711302030n3e98488bmb99886b3ac4c9c6e@mail.gmail.com> Roadside traders march against eviction move Special Correspondent http://www.hindu.com/2007/12/01/stories/2007120160390300.htm Corporation yet to come up with rehabilitation package for displaced vendors THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: Hundreds of fish and vegetable vendors, mostly women, took out a march to the City Corporation office at Palayam here on Friday to protest against the move to evict them from roadside markets. The protest was organised by the Theeradesa Mahila Vedi. Inaugurating the march, State president of the Kerala Swathantra Matsya Thozhilali Federation T. Peter alleged that the eviction move was aimed at paving the way for the entry of retail chains like Walmart and Reliance. He said hundreds of vendors would lose their livelihood if they were displaced. Mr. Peter said the Corporation was bound to provide alternative land and facilities for the vendors to carry on their trade. "Many vendors have been selling fish and vegetables by the roadside for decades. Customers are drawn to them by the reasonable rates," he added. President of Theeradesa Mahila Vedi Elizabeth Antony, secretary Freeska Kurishappan, Magline Peter, KSMTF district president Valierian Isack, secretary Anto Alias and former ward councillor Bridget Franklin addressed the protestors. The march began from the Secretariat and proceeded to the City Corporation office. Despite the snowballing protest, the Corporation has failed to come up with a rehabilitation package for the displaced hawkers. The City Development Plan outlines a proposal to rehabilitate hawkers and legitimise street vending as an 'affordable' service for the urban population. Scheduled to be taken up under the Jawaharlal Nehru National Urban Renewal Mission (JNNURM), the project primarily seeks to relocate street vendors to special zones equipped with basic infrastructural facilities. It is estimated that the city has 3,700 street vendors operating from commercial zones like East Fort, Chalai, Manacaud, Thampanoor, Statue, Palayam, Karamana, Kesavadasapuram, Vazhuthacaud, Medical College, Ulloor and Sasthamangalam. Under the project, the Corporation would identify land to create hawking zones where street vendors would be provided with semi permanent structures and basic amenities like toilets, electricity, drinking water and storage. It moots aesthetic design of mobile stalls and push carts to improve appeal. http://www.keralafishworkers.org http://www.alakal.net From virtuallyme at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 10:24:59 2007 From: virtuallyme at gmail.com (Rohan DSouza) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:24:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] An urban playground Message-ID: <79e82f610711302054v3649de39n9231b524670c8aa9@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Pls find below a posting by me on a particular playground in Bangalore. Rgds, Rohan *Akkithimmanahalli ground* Akkithimmanahalli ground*, situated in Richmond Town, Bangalore, is like any other playground one can see in Indian cities or towns. The features being an open maidan, where public access is free and unrestricted and various groups play sports of their choice simultaneously. This ground is also a feature of Bangalore, which has many such open maidans, unaffiliated to any association/institution. The ground is on a location where, like in many other places in Bangalore, there used to be a tank. This tank known variously as Akkithimmanahalli tank and Mud tank was in existence till the 70s. The main portion of the tank bed now consists of three parts, home to three different set-ups, with three different kinds of access. One part, which is also the largest, is the Karnataka State Hockey Association stadium complex, built in 1997, which consists of an astro-turf pitch and stadium, association office and gymnasium, mini hockey pitch and a residential block. Access to this complex is mostly restricted to members and players only, except on occasions when matches are held there. The second part is Divyasree Chambers, a commercial complex, which has many corporate offices, located in it and was built in 1999. Access here also is limited most of the time to employees, clients/customers and guests of the offices located there. Though there are a couple of ATMs (Citibank and HDFC) and a Bangalore One counter (where various utilities bills can be paid) in the complex, which can be accessed by others as well. The third part is the playground, which belongs to the Bangalore City Corporation and is accessible to all. The ground is in one corner of what used to be part of the tank bed and is almost square shaped. There is a wall made of grills around it, with one gate and small entry points at two other places. There are two rain trees in the western corner of the ground, which has a round platform around it and one near the main entrance. The soil is hard and has a smattering of small stones. There is a small building along the northern boundary of the ground, which houses an office for a government old age home. There are some slippery slides, jungle gyms and other such play equipments at the northern part of the ground. Largely used as a space to play in, the ground is occasionally used for festivals such as Ganesh Chaturthi, Navaratri, Deepavali and some other programmes. On a normal basis, it is a playground, where different groups play many sports at the same time. The most prominent sport, being cricket. One or two groups attempt to play other sports such as football and another, which seems to be cross between football and cricket (which I shall for convenience call, footcricket). The ground is occupied to its fullest capacity during weekday evenings and most of the time during weekends. Some people also play on weekday mornings. Most of the groups, who play in the ground, constitute locals from the neighbouring Shantinagar, especially from its lower income areas. The language spoken most is Kannada, with a little bit of Tamil. The ground is located in between middle and upper income group areas such as Langford Town and Richmond Town, with Shantinagar being in the area adjacent to the hockey stadium complex. The middle and upper class local youth, who live close by seem to have moved on from playing here, in favour of the more 'sanitised' institutional (school/colleges) play areas as well as private clubs. Though largely dominated by the locals from Shantinagar, there have been occasions earlier and now, where 'outsiders' have and continue to attempt to find space to play here. The 'outsiders' in this context are broadly two groups. One is the 'non-local locals', i.e., those who have come from outside Bangalore and even South India, but live in this neighbourhood. These include people (mostly students) from the northeastern states of India and some migrants from Nepal. The other group of 'outsiders' constitutes those who work in the various corporate offices in Divyasree chambers. The most part of space is taken up by the locals, who mostly play cricket and 'footcricket'. Space used by the 'outsiders' is relatively less and is characterized by other sports such as football. One can see the northeastern youth playing football in a truncated space in one part of the ground and the corporate employees in another corner, playing cricket. It is very rare that this composition of the playing area is different. The occasions when this differs are when the locals haven't entered the field, mostly because of the time of the day. During two such occasions, one was witness to a full-fledged football match being played by northeastern youth and another was when the corporate employees took center stage, literally, with their cricket equipment. But, on both occasions it was times of the day, which many of the locals did not consider as playing time. Sometimes belonging to regional and class groups determines spaces occupied. This seems to be determined to start with by regional/class belonging and then in the next level national belonging. This area has many from Nepal also who are employed as watchmen in the various buildings. They also play cricket, mostly on Sundays. I happened to play with them on two occasions. On one of these occasions, when we were playing in one part of the ground, another group, seemingly all locals started playing 'footcricket' near us. In spite of seeming to have enough space for themselves, one or two from the 'footcricket' group attempted to come in the way of the bowler and batsman of our group. A few such attempts were made and responses sought. When the responses seemed to be mild enough, there was no more disturbance of this sort. This seemed like an assertion of ownership of the space as well as an invitation to challenge that. One wonders whether this is a representation or a reaction to what is happening at a larger level in the city of Bangalore, where physical spaces in the form of land, cultural spaces in the form of festivals and employment/livelihood spaces in terms of jobs/businesses are increasingly being challenged by 'outsiders' and thereby making them grounds for conflict. And is what one sees playing out here also, a response by lower income groups/classes to changes of configuration in the city where a new breed of public spaces, like malls, clubs are emerging, where access is largely determined by income and class belonging? Is conversion of traditional public spaces such as parks, tanks into restricted spaces, through handing them over to private management, also contributing to these contestations? Playgrounds such as Akkithimanahalli face extinction due to attempts like one by the authorities (Bangalore City Corporation) **, where they sought to convert it and many other such grounds into underground parking lots. This move by the authorities needs to be seen in the light where cities such as Bangalore are increasingly being made upper and middle class friendly. Therefore spaces, like this ground, that used to be used by members of this class, but not anymore, are seen to be looked at as those which can cater to different and new needs of this class at this point in time. When one then sees all of this, which forms part of a larger design to convert cities such as Bangalore into 'mega cities' with clear class orientation and belonging, the contestations that happen in the playground don't seem surprising anymore. *Satellite map of Mud Tank area - http://maps.google.com/maps?key=ABQIAAAA6c_jabZz8p68OmBSGUQ4-hR9cIphkSRpGuP1UpICwt_aYUuIuRT4k9Dgqf04wqMPR2l-GEkr3TpUNw&ie=UTF8&ll=12.962217,77.600427&spn=0.005374,0.009785&t=h&z=16&om=0 ** Article on underground parking at playgrounds - http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=2007042219240400.htm&date=2007/04/22/&prd=th& From pawan.durani at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 10:42:03 2007 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 10:42:03 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rape Victim ordered 200 lashes and prison by Saudi judges In-Reply-To: References: <6b79f1a70711300043t1c3d3ff5vcfc303fddcc99c11@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6b79f1a70711302112r2edf5507y31be234c62a232d8@mail.gmail.com> Shuddha Wrote : " One does not have to link the decadence of current Saudi Arabia to the venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of abominations that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I would be just as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, as I would be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat and in India. Dear Shuddha , While as you have an obsession with Modi and looking at how few of you try to link everything and anything communal happening with Modi , I wonder where does your conscience lead to ? Each time you quote " Indian States Military Occupation In Kashmir " , without knowing the ground reality talk of your ignorance of the ground reality . You would be ready to accept figures given by a terrorist or a separatist organisation and at the same time averse to the real figures. Each time you tend to ignore the genocide of hindus which happened over a period of time , but you feel merry to spread discontent among minorties by harping on a one time incident of Gujarat. Each time you talk about structure of Ram Temple being destroyed [ which some of you called Babri ] , and at the same time non of you have ever discussed hundreds of temples being broken down to peices in Kashmir . Each time you talk about liberty of expression and at the same time you want all these liberties to be taken with Hindu relegion. Each time you talk of secular parties which you love even though thay may be aligned with a ML type of organisation and at the same time you need an anti allergic tablet if BJP is called secularist as well. Each time you speak of evil in Babu bajrangi but you have closed your thoughts for Yasin Maliks , Bitta karate and Hamdanis. Cmon ...get over Modi fixation . get over your thought that Indian state has "occupied" Kashmir. Get over that Military is anti people in Kashmir . Get real.....life is much more real than typing few words on the keyboard. Pawan Durani On 11/30/07, shuddha at sarai.net wrote: > > Dear Pawan, > > Hell comes in different flavours, as I tried to explain in an earlier > post, > and as is evident from your posting of the brutal treatment meted out to a > > young woman who has been the victim of gang rape in Saudi Arabia. > > Being against one kind of hell does not mean that we have to be the > partisans of other kinds of hell, elsewhere. The kind of intellectual that > > I find interesting it the one who has no problem at all in terms of > evolving an engaged critique of oppression, no matter what form it takes, > no matter where it occurs. That is why, despite our respect for people > like > Noam Chomsky, some of us took it upon ourselves to sharply criticize his > prevaricating apology for the 'Left Front' government's violence against > its own subjects in West Bengal > > And so, contrary to your expectations, some of those of us who have been > active on this list in arguing against the Indian state's military > occupation of the Kashmir valley have had no problems at all in being > determined in our opposition to oppression when it occurs in Left Front > ruled West Bengal, in the current conditions of military dictatorship in > Burma and Pakistan, or for that matter when it occurs under the aegis of > the Ibn Saud dynasty in Saudi Arabia. Tomorrow, if North Korea were to be > discussed on this list, I would be certain that there will be clear > arguments on this list against the imbecilic regime that rules North Korea > at the moment. The list can be justifiedly expanded to include Iran, the > United States, Russia and many other countries and states. > > Saudi Arabia is one of the most horrible places on the planet. It is ruled > by a corrupt, decadent ruling elite and kept in place by money, weapons > and > influence wielded by British and American corporate intersts and foreign > policy. If the international community was justified in operating a set of > sanctions against the hated South African apartheid regime, it should have > > no business in cosying up to the sexist, slave-owning, xenophobic, > anti-semitic Saudi regime which is the favourite retirement support agency > of third rate dictators like Idi Amin and corrupt rulers like Nawaz > Sharif. > > The Saudi Monarchy, which rose to eminence as the stooge of British > foreign > policy in the middle east in the early twentieth century presides over an > imbecilic and paranoid gloss of Islam, and the particularly Salafist brand > > of Islam that is held out as an ideal by the Saudi monarchy and its rented > clerics is rightly rejected by the majority of Muslims in the world. Its > significance lies only in that it is backed by petro-dollars and American > fighter jets. > > One does not have to link the decadence of current Saudi Arabia to the > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of abominations > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I would be > just > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, as I would > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat and in > India. > > regards. > > Shuddha > > > > On 2:13 pm 11/30/07 "Pawan Durani" < pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > Would Someone Puhleez link this to Modi , RSS & Hindutva > > ..........some intellectual surely would .............. > > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/ > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/rape-victim-ordered-200-lashes-and > > -prison-by-saudi-judges/ > > What can be called a travesty of judiciary, the Saudi Arabia's Higher > > Judicial Council has actually sentenced a rape victim to receive 200 > > lashes and prison while the perpetrators of humanity's most heinous > > crime were allowed to walk free. > > > > The 19-year-old Shiite woman who was raped by six armed men was > > originally sentenced to receive 90 lashes for traveling in the car of > > an 'unrelated male' at the time of the rape. However after the woman > > had the temerity of not unquestioningly submitting herself to be > > tortured as punishment of being raped, the judges on Saudi Arabia's > > Higher Judicial Council more than doubled her punishment for > > attempting to influence the judiciary through the media. > > > > Her lawyer, human right activist Abdul Rahman al-Lahem, has been > > banned from carrying her case further. His license has been revoked > > and he has been called to appear before a disciplinary committee for > > challenging the judgment, which only punished the victim of the crime > > and not its perpetrators. The Sunni rapists were given a paltry > > sentence of one to five years of imprisonment. > > > > This is the horrendous state of a country that keeps its women > > forcefully behind veils only to extenuate and encourage heinous > > crimes against them in the name of maintaining social discipline. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.ne > > t/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > From parthaekka at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 11:59:14 2007 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 11:59:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rape Victim ordered 200 lashes and prison by Saudi judges In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70711302112r2edf5507y31be234c62a232d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70711300043t1c3d3ff5vcfc303fddcc99c11@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70711302112r2edf5507y31be234c62a232d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32144e990711302229r2cbe66dakecf86791ffe7fe8f@mail.gmail.com> Hi Pawan, I think we strayed a bit from what Shuddha mentioned, that is that he's as against the overtness of the Saudi regime as he is against the Modi one. What I have been referring to is the opposition of state-sponsored / encouraged violence that has occured in Gujarat, Nandigram and now the POSCO incidents. The moment any government needs to take action through non-legal punitive action, it steps out of the system of checks and balances that the constitution places upon us which is criminal - all the more so since it's being done by the very people who are chosen by us to uphold the constitution. On the issue of Babri Masjid / the Ram temple would like to figure out the logic of 'going back to the basics'. If today we start pulling down every building place that was once something else and replacing it with whatever it was, we'd have to knock down the Konarak Temple and even the North Block and virtually every building. Extremely ridiculous, wouldn't you agree? In any case, I never subscribed to the thought that God resides in a building. Turning a structure from a mosque to a temple can not take or add God to that structure. I will not talk of 'secular' parties as all parties by the very nature of their existence are bound to their vote banks. On the other hand, I certainly stay far from the BJP that is tied by it's core to the RSS and Hindu ideology - which I believe is incorrect for a party with national dreams. And I saw the rath yatra in Delhi with the jingoistic slogans, and I saw the BJP leaders in their double-speak when the court took up the Babri Masjid case. Typical politicians with forked tongues that mean nothing except public appeasement and dodging responsibility. However, the BJP fanaticism makes me distrust them. As for Kashmir, there is no one view, and each concerned party has different wants. Sure, I hear the shouts and I hear of the deaths and the pain. I hear the anger of people, each with their own bias and perspective. Do I know the 'ground reality'? No. Even if I went there I wouldn't as each 'group' in that conflict has become fragmented with different demands (that have changed over time, different 'truths' and different hates. Am not an expert on sociology, and certainly not on Kashmir, but I do like the idea of the killing stopping, a space to breathe and talk, and to resolve the issues one at a time through dialogue and not guns. Killing Yasin Malik, Bitta Karate is just another step onwards in the path of death. Sure, it's easy for me to talk as I've not been dispossesed by that conflict. What I'm trying to ask is what do you really want? A peaceful resolution or retribution? Rgds, Partha .................... On 12/1/07, Pawan Durani wrote: > > Shuddha Wrote : " One does not have to link the decadence of current Saudi > Arabia to the > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of abominations > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I would be > just > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, as I would > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat and in > India. > > Dear Shuddha , > > While as you have an obsession with Modi and looking at how few of you try > to link everything and anything communal happening with Modi , I wonder > where does your conscience lead to ? > > Each time you quote " Indian States Military Occupation In Kashmir " , > without knowing the ground reality talk of your ignorance of the ground > reality . You would be ready to accept figures given by a terrorist or a > separatist organisation and at the same time averse to the real figures. > > Each time you tend to ignore the genocide of hindus which happened over a > period of time , but you feel merry to spread discontent among minorties > by > harping on a one time incident of Gujarat. > > Each time you talk about structure of Ram Temple being destroyed [ which > some of you called Babri ] , and at the same time non of you have ever > discussed hundreds of temples being broken down to peices in Kashmir . > > Each time you talk about liberty of expression and at the same time you > want > all these liberties to be taken with Hindu relegion. > > Each time you talk of secular parties which you love even though thay may > be > aligned with a ML type of organisation and at the same time you need an > anti > allergic tablet if BJP is called secularist as well. > > Each time you speak of evil in Babu bajrangi but you have closed your > thoughts for Yasin Maliks , Bitta karate and Hamdanis. > > Cmon ...get over Modi fixation . get over your thought that Indian state > has > "occupied" Kashmir. Get over that Military is anti people in Kashmir . > > Get real.....life is much more real than typing few words on the keyboard. > > Pawan Durani > > > > > On 11/30/07, shuddha at sarai.net wrote: > > > > Dear Pawan, > > > > Hell comes in different flavours, as I tried to explain in an earlier > > post, > > and as is evident from your posting of the brutal treatment meted out to > a > > > > young woman who has been the victim of gang rape in Saudi Arabia. > > > > Being against one kind of hell does not mean that we have to be the > > partisans of other kinds of hell, elsewhere. The kind of intellectual > that > > > > I find interesting it the one who has no problem at all in terms of > > evolving an engaged critique of oppression, no matter what form it > takes, > > no matter where it occurs. That is why, despite our respect for people > > like > > Noam Chomsky, some of us took it upon ourselves to sharply criticize his > > prevaricating apology for the 'Left Front' government's violence against > > its own subjects in West Bengal > > > > And so, contrary to your expectations, some of those of us who have been > > active on this list in arguing against the Indian state's military > > occupation of the Kashmir valley have had no problems at all in being > > determined in our opposition to oppression when it occurs in Left Front > > ruled West Bengal, in the current conditions of military dictatorship in > > Burma and Pakistan, or for that matter when it occurs under the aegis of > > the Ibn Saud dynasty in Saudi Arabia. Tomorrow, if North Korea were to > be > > discussed on this list, I would be certain that there will be clear > > arguments on this list against the imbecilic regime that rules North > Korea > > at the moment. The list can be justifiedly expanded to include Iran, the > > United States, Russia and many other countries and states. > > > > Saudi Arabia is one of the most horrible places on the planet. It is > ruled > > by a corrupt, decadent ruling elite and kept in place by money, weapons > > and > > influence wielded by British and American corporate intersts and foreign > > policy. If the international community was justified in operating a set > of > > sanctions against the hated South African apartheid regime, it should > have > > > > no business in cosying up to the sexist, slave-owning, xenophobic, > > anti-semitic Saudi regime which is the favourite retirement support > agency > > of third rate dictators like Idi Amin and corrupt rulers like Nawaz > > Sharif. > > > > The Saudi Monarchy, which rose to eminence as the stooge of British > > foreign > > policy in the middle east in the early twentieth century presides over > an > > imbecilic and paranoid gloss of Islam, and the particularly Salafist > brand > > > > of Islam that is held out as an ideal by the Saudi monarchy and its > rented > > clerics is rightly rejected by the majority of Muslims in the world. Its > > significance lies only in that it is backed by petro-dollars and > American > > fighter jets. > > > > One does not have to link the decadence of current Saudi Arabia to the > > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of > abominations > > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I would be > > just > > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, as I > would > > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat and in > > India. > > > > regards. > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > > > On 2:13 pm 11/30/07 "Pawan Durani" < pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Would Someone Puhleez link this to Modi , RSS & Hindutva > > > ..........some intellectual surely would .............. > > > > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/ > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/rape-victim-ordered-200-lashes-and > > > -prison-by-saudi-judges/ > > > What can be called a travesty of judiciary, the Saudi Arabia's Higher > > > Judicial Council has actually sentenced a rape victim to receive 200 > > > lashes and prison while the perpetrators of humanity's most heinous > > > crime were allowed to walk free. > > > > > > The 19-year-old Shiite woman who was raped by six armed men was > > > originally sentenced to receive 90 lashes for traveling in the car of > > > an 'unrelated male' at the time of the rape. However after the woman > > > had the temerity of not unquestioningly submitting herself to be > > > tortured as punishment of being raped, the judges on Saudi Arabia's > > > Higher Judicial Council more than doubled her punishment for > > > attempting to influence the judiciary through the media. > > > > > > Her lawyer, human right activist Abdul Rahman al-Lahem, has been > > > banned from carrying her case further. His license has been revoked > > > and he has been called to appear before a disciplinary committee for > > > challenging the judgment, which only punished the victim of the crime > > > and not its perpetrators. The Sunni rapists were given a paltry > > > sentence of one to five years of imprisonment. > > > > > > This is the horrendous state of a country that keeps its women > > > forcefully behind veils only to extenuate and encourage heinous > > > crimes against them in the name of maintaining social discipline. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.ne > > > t/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From klp_adital at sancharnet.in Sat Dec 1 12:33:41 2007 From: klp_adital at sancharnet.in (klp_adital) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:33:41 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Word file Message-ID: <20071201070341.76B0A2B298A2@mail.sarai.net> Please see the file. -------------- next part -------------- ***** NOTE: An attachment named New_Document_file.pif was deleted from this message because it contained a windows executableor other potentially dangerous file type. Contact the system administrator for more information. From klp_adital at sancharnet.in Sat Dec 1 12:43:29 2007 From: klp_adital at sancharnet.in (klp_adital) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:43:29 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?utf-8?q?=28no_subject=29?= Message-ID: <20071201071329.7676F2B29741@mail.sarai.net> ???????????????????????????? ????????????? ?????? ??????????? -------------- next part -------------- ***** NOTE: An attachment named Word_Document.uu was deleted from this message because it contained a windows executableor other potentially dangerous file type. Contact the system administrator for more information. From klp_adital at sancharnet.in Sat Dec 1 12:54:34 2007 From: klp_adital at sancharnet.in (klp_adital) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 12:54:34 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: Sexy Message-ID: <20071201072434.E0D692B298A8@mail.sarai.net> ***** NOTE: An attachment named Attachments001.BHX was deleted from this message because it contained a windows executableor other potentially dangerous file type. Contact the system administrator for more information. From klp_adital at sancharnet.in Sat Dec 1 13:06:36 2007 From: klp_adital at sancharnet.in (klp_adital) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 13:06:36 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: Crazy illegal Sex! Message-ID: <20071201073636.AA66A2B298A8@mail.sarai.net> Note: forwarded message attached. -------------- next part -------------- ***** NOTE: An attachment named Sex.mim was deleted from this message because it contained a windows executableor other potentially dangerous file type. Contact the system administrator for more information. From chilledoutmirage at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 13:14:56 2007 From: chilledoutmirage at gmail.com (Malvika Rawal) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 13:14:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rape Victim ordered 200 lashes and prison by Saudi judges In-Reply-To: <32144e990711302229r2cbe66dakecf86791ffe7fe8f@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70711300043t1c3d3ff5vcfc303fddcc99c11@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70711302112r2edf5507y31be234c62a232d8@mail.gmail.com> <32144e990711302229r2cbe66dakecf86791ffe7fe8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <43295f450711302344v561daaa8pb3d7ab53e5011a74@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I am no sociologist but as a human being, I can say that we have no right to condemn another human on the basis of how he/she refers to God. Today, religion has become such a big issue for everybody but somehow, I fail to understand why all this brouhaha *Whether I refer to my God as Bhagwan, Allah, Christ or Wahe guru is nobody's choice except my own, least of all, that of the state. The state has no right to discriminate on the basis of religion and least of all, sponsor genocides based on religious discrimination.* The state's job is to protect the rights of people not take away the right to life and the right to justice. Whether it is Modi or the Saudi regime or any other for that matter, they have flouted the basic principles of egalitarianism in a society. In an ideal situation, we would say that all parties in a democracy will advocate the welfare of the people, only the path of achievement would be diferent. If anyone does otherwise, the media must bring it to the people and help condemn it. However, the situation is farr from ideal here. Where various political parties raise issues to maintain themselves in public eye, create mountains out of molehills just for their 15 minutes of fame. Issues like Nandigram, the N-deal did not deserve as much attention and noise as was made out for them. The people lusting for power let them become such big issues. This gave them their satisfaction but cost the common man dearly, with life in the first case and finances in the second case. People lusting for power will not have public welfare in mind when they speak of any issue but will have their own silly motives in mind. people who have let religion, Nandigram or anything esle for that matter become such big issues are as guilty as those who perpetrated the killings themselves. The media also feeds this lust by giving them all the attention that they want. We need to focus on the real issue and not the offshoots and mis shoots of it. The method of presentation in news is often as if the news reader is enjoying the plight of the victims. 24 hour news channels have not helped society anymore. Rather they have been party in decay. Sensationalism is quite the rule of the day with everything made spicy to attract public attention, unfortunately to all the wrong and non useful things. We as a society need to wake up to the fact that we have to learn to distinguish between the real and the depicted picture. What is shown in the news and told to us by the 'so called' leaders may not be the complete picture. in fact, that may not be the picture at all. it may be an illusion being created by them to fulfill their cheap lusts fro fame and power. Issues being blown out of proportion more than once basically shows that we the people are not able to take a stand on whether or not an issue deserves so much attention. It is this inability that gives these people all the incentive to go ahead and make us believe what they feel like. We as the people would now have learn to distinguish. It only this capability that will make us a better people. Regards Malvika On 12/1/07, Partha Dasgupta wrote: > Hi Pawan, > > I think we strayed a bit from what Shuddha mentioned, that is that he's as > against the overtness of the Saudi regime as he is against the Modi one. > What I have been referring to is the opposition of state-sponsored / > encouraged violence that has occured in Gujarat, Nandigram and now the > POSCO > incidents. The moment any government needs to take action through > non-legal > punitive action, it steps out of the system of checks and balances that > the > constitution places upon us which is criminal - all the more so since it's > being done by the very people who are chosen by us to uphold the > constitution. > > On the issue of Babri Masjid / the Ram temple would like to figure out the > logic of 'going back to the basics'. If today we start pulling down every > building place that was once something else and replacing it with whatever > it was, we'd have to knock down the Konarak Temple and even the North > Block > and virtually every building. Extremely ridiculous, wouldn't you agree? > > In any case, I never subscribed to the thought that God resides in a > building. Turning a structure from a mosque to a temple can not take or > add > God to that structure. > > I will not talk of 'secular' parties as all parties by the very nature of > their existence are bound to their vote banks. On the other hand, I > certainly stay far from the BJP that is tied by it's core to the RSS and > Hindu ideology - which I believe is incorrect for a party with national > dreams. And I saw the rath yatra in Delhi with the jingoistic slogans, and > I > saw the BJP leaders in their double-speak when the court took up the Babri > Masjid case. Typical politicians with forked tongues that mean nothing > except public appeasement and dodging responsibility. However, the BJP > fanaticism makes me distrust them. > > As for Kashmir, there is no one view, and each concerned party has > different > wants. Sure, I hear the shouts and I hear of the deaths and the pain. I > hear > the anger of people, each with their own bias and perspective. Do I know > the > 'ground reality'? > > No. Even if I went there I wouldn't as each 'group' in that conflict has > become fragmented with different demands (that have changed over time, > different 'truths' and different hates. > > Am not an expert on sociology, and certainly not on Kashmir, but I do like > the idea of the killing stopping, a space to breathe and talk, and to > resolve the issues one at a time through dialogue and not guns. Killing > Yasin Malik, Bitta Karate is just another step onwards in the path of > death. > > Sure, it's easy for me to talk as I've not been dispossesed by that > conflict. > > What I'm trying to ask is what do you really want? A peaceful resolution > or > retribution? > > Rgds, Partha > .................... > > > On 12/1/07, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > > Shuddha Wrote : " One does not have to link the decadence of current > Saudi > > Arabia to the > > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of > abominations > > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I would be > > just > > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, as I > would > > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat and in > > India. > > > > Dear Shuddha , > > > > While as you have an obsession with Modi and looking at how few of you > try > > to link everything and anything communal happening with Modi , I wonder > > where does your conscience lead to ? > > > > Each time you quote " Indian States Military Occupation In Kashmir " , > > without knowing the ground reality talk of your ignorance of the ground > > reality . You would be ready to accept figures given by a terrorist or a > > separatist organisation and at the same time averse to the real figures. > > > > Each time you tend to ignore the genocide of hindus which happened over > a > > period of time , but you feel merry to spread discontent among minorties > > by > > harping on a one time incident of Gujarat. > > > > Each time you talk about structure of Ram Temple being destroyed [ which > > some of you called Babri ] , and at the same time non of you have ever > > discussed hundreds of temples being broken down to peices in Kashmir . > > > > Each time you talk about liberty of expression and at the same time you > > want > > all these liberties to be taken with Hindu relegion. > > > > Each time you talk of secular parties which you love even though thay > may > > be > > aligned with a ML type of organisation and at the same time you need an > > anti > > allergic tablet if BJP is called secularist as well. > > > > Each time you speak of evil in Babu bajrangi but you have closed your > > thoughts for Yasin Maliks , Bitta karate and Hamdanis. > > > > Cmon ...get over Modi fixation . get over your thought that Indian state > > has > > "occupied" Kashmir. Get over that Military is anti people in Kashmir . > > > > Get real.....life is much more real than typing few words on the > keyboard. > > > > Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > On 11/30/07, shuddha at sarai.net wrote: > > > > > > Dear Pawan, > > > > > > Hell comes in different flavours, as I tried to explain in an earlier > > > post, > > > and as is evident from your posting of the brutal treatment meted out > to > > a > > > > > > young woman who has been the victim of gang rape in Saudi Arabia. > > > > > > Being against one kind of hell does not mean that we have to be the > > > partisans of other kinds of hell, elsewhere. The kind of intellectual > > that > > > > > > I find interesting it the one who has no problem at all in terms of > > > evolving an engaged critique of oppression, no matter what form it > > takes, > > > no matter where it occurs. That is why, despite our respect for people > > > like > > > Noam Chomsky, some of us took it upon ourselves to sharply criticize > his > > > prevaricating apology for the 'Left Front' government's violence > against > > > its own subjects in West Bengal > > > > > > And so, contrary to your expectations, some of those of us who have > been > > > active on this list in arguing against the Indian state's military > > > occupation of the Kashmir valley have had no problems at all in being > > > determined in our opposition to oppression when it occurs in Left > Front > > > ruled West Bengal, in the current conditions of military dictatorship > in > > > Burma and Pakistan, or for that matter when it occurs under the aegis > of > > > the Ibn Saud dynasty in Saudi Arabia. Tomorrow, if North Korea were to > > be > > > discussed on this list, I would be certain that there will be clear > > > arguments on this list against the imbecilic regime that rules North > > Korea > > > at the moment. The list can be justifiedly expanded to include Iran, > the > > > United States, Russia and many other countries and states. > > > > > > Saudi Arabia is one of the most horrible places on the planet. It is > > ruled > > > by a corrupt, decadent ruling elite and kept in place by money, > weapons > > > and > > > influence wielded by British and American corporate intersts and > foreign > > > policy. If the international community was justified in operating a > set > > of > > > sanctions against the hated South African apartheid regime, it should > > have > > > > > > no business in cosying up to the sexist, slave-owning, xenophobic, > > > anti-semitic Saudi regime which is the favourite retirement support > > agency > > > of third rate dictators like Idi Amin and corrupt rulers like Nawaz > > > Sharif. > > > > > > The Saudi Monarchy, which rose to eminence as the stooge of British > > > foreign > > > policy in the middle east in the early twentieth century presides over > > an > > > imbecilic and paranoid gloss of Islam, and the particularly Salafist > > brand > > > > > > of Islam that is held out as an ideal by the Saudi monarchy and its > > rented > > > clerics is rightly rejected by the majority of Muslims in the world. > Its > > > significance lies only in that it is backed by petro-dollars and > > American > > > fighter jets. > > > > > > One does not have to link the decadence of current Saudi Arabia to the > > > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of > > abominations > > > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I would be > > > just > > > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, as I > > would > > > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat and > in > > > India. > > > > > > regards. > > > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2:13 pm 11/30/07 "Pawan Durani" < pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Would Someone Puhleez link this to Modi , RSS & Hindutva > > > > ..........some intellectual surely would .............. > > > > > > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/ > > > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/rape-victim-ordered-200-lashes-and > > > > -prison-by-saudi-judges/ > > > > What can be called a travesty of judiciary, the Saudi Arabia's > Higher > > > > Judicial Council has actually sentenced a rape victim to receive 200 > > > > lashes and prison while the perpetrators of humanity's most heinous > > > > crime were allowed to walk free. > > > > > > > > The 19-year-old Shiite woman who was raped by six armed men was > > > > originally sentenced to receive 90 lashes for traveling in the car > of > > > > an 'unrelated male' at the time of the rape. However after the woman > > > > had the temerity of not unquestioningly submitting herself to be > > > > tortured as punishment of being raped, the judges on Saudi Arabia's > > > > Higher Judicial Council more than doubled her punishment for > > > > attempting to influence the judiciary through the media. > > > > > > > > Her lawyer, human right activist Abdul Rahman al-Lahem, has been > > > > banned from carrying her case further. His license has been revoked > > > > and he has been called to appear before a disciplinary committee for > > > > challenging the judgment, which only punished the victim of the > crime > > > > and not its perpetrators. The Sunni rapists were given a paltry > > > > sentence of one to five years of imprisonment. > > > > > > > > This is the horrendous state of a country that keeps its women > > > > forcefully behind veils only to extenuate and encourage heinous > > > > crimes against them in the name of maintaining social discipline. > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.ne > > > > t/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > -- > Partha Dasgupta > +919811047132 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Keep smiling, smile brings sunshine to your life From klp_adital at sancharnet.in Sat Dec 1 13:18:59 2007 From: klp_adital at sancharnet.in (klp_adital) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 13:18:59 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Word file Message-ID: <20071201074900.7C8BB2B298FC@mail.sarai.net> Please see the file. -------------- next part -------------- ***** NOTE: An attachment named New_Document_file.pif was deleted from this message because it contained a windows executableor other potentially dangerous file type. Contact the system administrator for more information. From parthaekka at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 13:43:00 2007 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 13:43:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rape Victim ordered 200 lashes and prison by Saudi judges In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70711302343v67ae75bp61afa3f4acb62828@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70711300043t1c3d3ff5vcfc303fddcc99c11@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70711302112r2edf5507y31be234c62a232d8@mail.gmail.com> <32144e990711302229r2cbe66dakecf86791ffe7fe8f@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70711302343v67ae75bp61afa3f4acb62828@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32144e990712010013y1128683aq93a495cc6e12b446@mail.gmail.com> Hi Pawan, That *is* what I was talking about. We can either focus on Bitta Karate, Yasin Malik and other mentioned by you and insist upon retribution and death... Or we can look at trying to achieve peaceful cohabitation in Kashmir, and then due diligence on all the issues. Besides, the killing of Bitta Karate, Yasin Malik, etc., might satisfy some blood / revenge thirsty people, but I fail to understand how it will resolve any issue. Rgds, Partha ............................................................ On Dec 1, 2007 1:13 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > Dear Partha , > > Though I wished to discuss on many points you have expressed , but for a > moment I just wanted to ask you a simple question > > As regards to people like Yasin malik and Bitta karate .....what is your > idea of peaceful solution ? > > Pawan > > > On 12/1/07, Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > I think we strayed a bit from what Shuddha mentioned, that is that he's > > as against the overtness of the Saudi regime as he is against the Modi one. > > What I have been referring to is the opposition of state-sponsored / > > encouraged violence that has occured in Gujarat, Nandigram and now the POSCO > > incidents. The moment any government needs to take action through non-legal > > punitive action, it steps out of the system of checks and balances that the > > constitution places upon us which is criminal - all the more so since it's > > being done by the very people who are chosen by us to uphold the > > constitution. > > > > On the issue of Babri Masjid / the Ram temple would like to figure out > > the logic of 'going back to the basics'. If today we start pulling down > > every building place that was once something else and replacing it with > > whatever it was, we'd have to knock down the Konarak Temple and even the > > North Block and virtually every building. Extremely ridiculous, wouldn't you > > agree? > > > > In any case, I never subscribed to the thought that God resides in a > > building. Turning a structure from a mosque to a temple can not take or add > > God to that structure. > > > > I will not talk of 'secular' parties as all parties by the very nature > > of their existence are bound to their vote banks. On the other hand, I > > certainly stay far from the BJP that is tied by it's core to the RSS and > > Hindu ideology - which I believe is incorrect for a party with national > > dreams. And I saw the rath yatra in Delhi with the jingoistic slogans, and I > > saw the BJP leaders in their double-speak when the court took up the Babri > > Masjid case. Typical politicians with forked tongues that mean nothing > > except public appeasement and dodging responsibility. However, the BJP > > fanaticism makes me distrust them. > > > > As for Kashmir, there is no one view, and each concerned party has > > different wants. Sure, I hear the shouts and I hear of the deaths and the > > pain. I hear the anger of people, each with their own bias and perspective. > > Do I know the 'ground reality'? > > > > No. Even if I went there I wouldn't as each 'group' in that conflict has > > become fragmented with different demands (that have changed over time, > > different 'truths' and different hates. > > > > Am not an expert on sociology, and certainly not on Kashmir, but I do > > like the idea of the killing stopping, a space to breathe and talk, and to > > resolve the issues one at a time through dialogue and not guns. Killing > > Yasin Malik, Bitta Karate is just another step onwards in the path of death. > > > > > > Sure, it's easy for me to talk as I've not been dispossesed by that > > conflict. > > > > What I'm trying to ask is what do you really want? A peaceful resolution > > or retribution? > > > > Rgds, Partha > > .................... > > > > > > On 12/1/07, Pawan Durani < pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Shuddha Wrote : " One does not have to link the decadence of current > > > Saudi > > > Arabia to the > > > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of > > > abominations > > > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I would be > > > just > > > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, as I > > > would > > > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat and > > > in > > > India. > > > > > > Dear Shuddha , > > > > > > While as you have an obsession with Modi and looking at how few of you > > > try > > > to link everything and anything communal happening with Modi , I > > > wonder > > > where does your conscience lead to ? > > > > > > Each time you quote " Indian States Military Occupation In Kashmir " , > > > without knowing the ground reality talk of your ignorance of the > > > ground > > > reality . You would be ready to accept figures given by a terrorist or > > > a > > > separatist organisation and at the same time averse to the real > > > figures. > > > > > > Each time you tend to ignore the genocide of hindus which happened > > > over a > > > period of time , but you feel merry to spread discontent among > > > minorties by > > > harping on a one time incident of Gujarat. > > > > > > Each time you talk about structure of Ram Temple being destroyed [ > > > which > > > some of you called Babri ] , and at the same time non of you have ever > > > discussed hundreds of temples being broken down to peices in Kashmir . > > > > > > > > > Each time you talk about liberty of expression and at the same time > > > you want > > > all these liberties to be taken with Hindu relegion. > > > > > > Each time you talk of secular parties which you love even though thay > > > may be > > > aligned with a ML type of organisation and at the same time you need > > > an anti > > > allergic tablet if BJP is called secularist as well. > > > > > > Each time you speak of evil in Babu bajrangi but you have closed your > > > thoughts for Yasin Maliks , Bitta karate and Hamdanis. > > > > > > Cmon ...get over Modi fixation . get over your thought that Indian > > > state has > > > "occupied" Kashmir. Get over that Military is anti people in Kashmir . > > > > > > Get real.....life is much more real than typing few words on the > > > keyboard. > > > > > > Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/30/07, shuddha at sarai.net < shuddha at sarai.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Pawan, > > > > > > > > Hell comes in different flavours, as I tried to explain in an > > > earlier > > > > post, > > > > and as is evident from your posting of the brutal treatment meted > > > out to a > > > > > > > > young woman who has been the victim of gang rape in Saudi Arabia. > > > > > > > > Being against one kind of hell does not mean that we have to be the > > > > partisans of other kinds of hell, elsewhere. The kind of > > > intellectual that > > > > > > > > I find interesting it the one who has no problem at all in terms of > > > > evolving an engaged critique of oppression, no matter what form it > > > takes, > > > > no matter where it occurs. That is why, despite our respect for > > > people > > > > like > > > > Noam Chomsky, some of us took it upon ourselves to sharply criticize > > > his > > > > prevaricating apology for the 'Left Front' government's violence > > > against > > > > its own subjects in West Bengal > > > > > > > > And so, contrary to your expectations, some of those of us who have > > > been > > > > active on this list in arguing against the Indian state's military > > > > occupation of the Kashmir valley have had no problems at all in > > > being > > > > determined in our opposition to oppression when it occurs in Left > > > Front > > > > ruled West Bengal, in the current conditions of military > > > dictatorship in > > > > Burma and Pakistan, or for that matter when it occurs under the > > > aegis of > > > > the Ibn Saud dynasty in Saudi Arabia. Tomorrow, if North Korea were > > > to be > > > > discussed on this list, I would be certain that there will be clear > > > > arguments on this list against the imbecilic regime that rules North > > > Korea > > > > at the moment. The list can be justifiedly expanded to include Iran, > > > the > > > > United States, Russia and many other countries and states. > > > > > > > > Saudi Arabia is one of the most horrible places on the planet. It is > > > ruled > > > > by a corrupt, decadent ruling elite and kept in place by money, > > > weapons > > > > and > > > > influence wielded by British and American corporate intersts and > > > foreign > > > > policy. If the international community was justified in operating a > > > set of > > > > sanctions against the hated South African apartheid regime, it > > > should have > > > > > > > > no business in cosying up to the sexist, slave-owning, xenophobic, > > > > anti-semitic Saudi regime which is the favourite retirement support > > > agency > > > > of third rate dictators like Idi Amin and corrupt rulers like Nawaz > > > > Sharif. > > > > > > > > The Saudi Monarchy, which rose to eminence as the stooge of British > > > > foreign > > > > policy in the middle east in the early twentieth century presides > > > over an > > > > imbecilic and paranoid gloss of Islam, and the particularly Salafist > > > brand > > > > > > > > of Islam that is held out as an ideal by the Saudi monarchy and its > > > rented > > > > clerics is rightly rejected by the majority of Muslims in the world. > > > Its > > > > significance lies only in that it is backed by petro-dollars and > > > American > > > > fighter jets. > > > > > > > > One does not have to link the decadence of current Saudi Arabia to > > > the > > > > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of > > > abominations > > > > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I would > > > be > > > > just > > > > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, as I > > > would > > > > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat > > > and in > > > > India. > > > > > > > > regards. > > > > > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2:13 pm 11/30/07 "Pawan Durani" < pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Would Someone Puhleez link this to Modi , RSS & Hindutva > > > > > ..........some intellectual surely would .............. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/ > > > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/rape-victim-ordered-200-lashes-and > > > > > > > > -prison-by-saudi-judges/ > > > > > What can be called a travesty of judiciary, the Saudi Arabia's > > > Higher > > > > > Judicial Council has actually sentenced a rape victim to receive > > > 200 > > > > > lashes and prison while the perpetrators of humanity's most > > > heinous > > > > > crime were allowed to walk free. > > > > > > > > > > The 19-year-old Shiite woman who was raped by six armed men was > > > > > originally sentenced to receive 90 lashes for traveling in the car > > > of > > > > > an 'unrelated male' at the time of the rape. However after the > > > woman > > > > > had the temerity of not unquestioningly submitting herself to be > > > > > tortured as punishment of being raped, the judges on Saudi > > > Arabia's > > > > > Higher Judicial Council more than doubled her punishment for > > > > > attempting to influence the judiciary through the media. > > > > > > > > > > Her lawyer, human right activist Abdul Rahman al-Lahem, has been > > > > > banned from carrying her case further. His license has been > > > revoked > > > > > and he has been called to appear before a disciplinary committee > > > for > > > > > challenging the judgment, which only punished the victim of the > > > crime > > > > > and not its perpetrators. The Sunni rapists were given a paltry > > > > > sentence of one to five years of imprisonment. > > > > > > > > > > This is the horrendous state of a country that keeps its women > > > > > forcefully behind veils only to extenuate and encourage heinous > > > > > crimes against them in the name of maintaining social discipline. > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: > > > https://mail.sarai.ne > > > > > t/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Partha Dasgupta > > +919811047132 > > > -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From klp_adital at sancharnet.in Sat Dec 1 14:03:03 2007 From: klp_adital at sancharnet.in (klp_adital) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 14:03:03 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: DSC-00465.jpg Message-ID: <20071201083303.D5C1D2B29907@mail.sarai.net> forwarded message attached. -------------- next part -------------- ***** NOTE: An attachment named DSC-00465.pIf was deleted from this message because it contained a windows executableor other potentially dangerous file type. Contact the system administrator for more information. From parthaekka at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 14:07:50 2007 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 14:07:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: DSC-00465.jpg In-Reply-To: <20071201083303.D5C1D2B29907@mail.sarai.net> References: <20071201083303.D5C1D2B29907@mail.sarai.net> Message-ID: <32144e990712010037q7f28a15dp90d5044cf390b047@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Would suggest deleting messages from klp_adital from your mailbox as all the mails sent today from that ID include infected files. Most possible s/he has an infected computer that is auto-sending mails. However, short term it's safer to block mails from this ID till the user fixes the computer. Rgds, Partha ............................ On Dec 1, 2007 2:03 PM, klp_adital wrote: > forwarded message attached. > > > ***** > NOTE: An attachment named DSC-00465.pIf was deleted from this message > because it contained a windows executableor other potentially dangerous file > type. > Contact the system administrator for more information. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From parthaekka at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 14:34:57 2007 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 14:34:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rape Victim ordered 200 lashes and prison by Saudi judges In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70712010041i4852ecerbb867d29b3d8804a@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70711300043t1c3d3ff5vcfc303fddcc99c11@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70711302112r2edf5507y31be234c62a232d8@mail.gmail.com> <32144e990711302229r2cbe66dakecf86791ffe7fe8f@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70711302343v67ae75bp61afa3f4acb62828@mail.gmail.com> <32144e990712010013y1128683aq93a495cc6e12b446@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70712010041i4852ecerbb867d29b3d8804a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32144e990712010104p37d13735o64ba45fb50123291@mail.gmail.com> Hi Pawan, Read my mail. What I mentioned (as a personal viewpoint) is 1. Peaceful cohabitation 2. A common due diligence on all issues 3. Either we can look at playing the retribution game with the Army, 'terrorists' and a host of other labelled people being killed and continuing the cycle of death OR We can stop, use our common sense and try and resolve the central issue which is the displacement of people and the semi-warzone status of Kashmir. You mentioned the same in your statement as one whereas they are two seperate issues of the "exodus of 70000 minorities" and "those who are responsible" - whereas for the second I would hold the government liable. In any case, I have not talked of amnesty. Even though you mentioned that some have been released by the court, go ahead and take up the cases as we are all aware of travesty of justice. What I did mention is that to my personal opinion, the return of the displaced people should be worked at first instead of shouts for more death which the valley has seen enough of. Once that has been managed, treat the other issues on a common platform. And yes, I do call that a peaceful resolution. Rgds, Partha ............................................ On Dec 1, 2007 2:11 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > And you answer for a peacful solution is general amnesty to all terrorists > & mass murderers and those who are responsible for exodus of 700000 relegios > minorties in Kashmir . > > is that what you find a resolution and that too peaceful ! > > > On 12/1/07, Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > That *is* what I was talking about. > > > > We can either focus on Bitta Karate, Yasin Malik and other mentioned by > > you and insist upon retribution and death... > > > > Or we can look at trying to achieve peaceful cohabitation in Kashmir, > > and then due diligence on all the issues. > > > > Besides, the killing of Bitta Karate, Yasin Malik, etc., might satisfy > > some blood / revenge thirsty people, but I fail to understand how it will > > resolve any issue. > > > > Rgds, Partha > > ............................................................ > > > > > > On Dec 1, 2007 1:13 PM, Pawan Durani wrote: > > > > > Dear Partha , > > > > > > Though I wished to discuss on many points you have expressed , but for > > > a moment I just wanted to ask you a simple question > > > > > > As regards to people like Yasin malik and Bitta karate .....what is > > > your idea of peaceful solution ? > > > > > > Pawan > > > > > > > > > On 12/1/07, Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > I think we strayed a bit from what Shuddha mentioned, that is that > > > > he's as against the overtness of the Saudi regime as he is against the Modi > > > > one. What I have been referring to is the opposition of state-sponsored / > > > > encouraged violence that has occured in Gujarat, Nandigram and now the POSCO > > > > incidents. The moment any government needs to take action through non-legal > > > > punitive action, it steps out of the system of checks and balances that the > > > > constitution places upon us which is criminal - all the more so since it's > > > > being done by the very people who are chosen by us to uphold the > > > > constitution. > > > > > > > > On the issue of Babri Masjid / the Ram temple would like to figure > > > > out the logic of 'going back to the basics'. If today we start pulling down > > > > every building place that was once something else and replacing it with > > > > whatever it was, we'd have to knock down the Konarak Temple and even the > > > > North Block and virtually every building. Extremely ridiculous, wouldn't you > > > > agree? > > > > > > > > In any case, I never subscribed to the thought that God resides in a > > > > building. Turning a structure from a mosque to a temple can not take or add > > > > God to that structure. > > > > > > > > I will not talk of 'secular' parties as all parties by the very > > > > nature of their existence are bound to their vote banks. On the other hand, > > > > I certainly stay far from the BJP that is tied by it's core to the RSS and > > > > Hindu ideology - which I believe is incorrect for a party with national > > > > dreams. And I saw the rath yatra in Delhi with the jingoistic slogans, and I > > > > saw the BJP leaders in their double-speak when the court took up the Babri > > > > Masjid case. Typical politicians with forked tongues that mean nothing > > > > except public appeasement and dodging responsibility. However, the BJP > > > > fanaticism makes me distrust them. > > > > > > > > As for Kashmir, there is no one view, and each concerned party has > > > > different wants. Sure, I hear the shouts and I hear of the deaths and the > > > > pain. I hear the anger of people, each with their own bias and perspective. > > > > Do I know the 'ground reality'? > > > > > > > > No. Even if I went there I wouldn't as each 'group' in that > > > > conflict has become fragmented with different demands (that have changed > > > > over time, different 'truths' and different hates. > > > > > > > > Am not an expert on sociology, and certainly not on Kashmir, but I > > > > do like the idea of the killing stopping, a space to breathe and talk, and > > > > to resolve the issues one at a time through dialogue and not guns. Killing > > > > Yasin Malik, Bitta Karate is just another step onwards in the path of death. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it's easy for me to talk as I've not been dispossesed by that > > > > conflict. > > > > > > > > What I'm trying to ask is what do you really want? A peaceful > > > > resolution or retribution? > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > .................... > > > > > > > > > > > > On 12/1/07, Pawan Durani < pawan.durani at gmail.com > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Shuddha Wrote : " One does not have to link the decadence of > > > > > current Saudi > > > > > Arabia to the > > > > > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of > > > > > abominations > > > > > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I > > > > > would be just > > > > > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, as > > > > > I would > > > > > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat > > > > > and in > > > > > India. > > > > > > > > > > Dear Shuddha , > > > > > > > > > > While as you have an obsession with Modi and looking at how few of > > > > > you try > > > > > to link everything and anything communal happening with Modi , I > > > > > wonder > > > > > where does your conscience lead to ? > > > > > > > > > > Each time you quote " Indian States Military Occupation In Kashmir > > > > > " , > > > > > without knowing the ground reality talk of your ignorance of the > > > > > ground > > > > > reality . You would be ready to accept figures given by a > > > > > terrorist or a > > > > > separatist organisation and at the same time averse to the real > > > > > figures. > > > > > > > > > > Each time you tend to ignore the genocide of hindus which happened > > > > > over a > > > > > period of time , but you feel merry to spread discontent among > > > > > minorties by > > > > > harping on a one time incident of Gujarat. > > > > > > > > > > Each time you talk about structure of Ram Temple being destroyed [ > > > > > which > > > > > some of you called Babri ] , and at the same time non of you have > > > > > ever > > > > > discussed hundreds of temples being broken down to peices in > > > > > Kashmir . > > > > > > > > > > Each time you talk about liberty of expression and at the same > > > > > time you want > > > > > all these liberties to be taken with Hindu relegion. > > > > > > > > > > Each time you talk of secular parties which you love even though > > > > > thay may be > > > > > aligned with a ML type of organisation and at the same time you > > > > > need an anti > > > > > allergic tablet if BJP is called secularist as well. > > > > > > > > > > Each time you speak of evil in Babu bajrangi but you have closed > > > > > your > > > > > thoughts for Yasin Maliks , Bitta karate and Hamdanis. > > > > > > > > > > Cmon ...get over Modi fixation . get over your thought that Indian > > > > > state has > > > > > "occupied" Kashmir. Get over that Military is anti people in > > > > > Kashmir . > > > > > > > > > > Get real.....life is much more real than typing few words on the > > > > > keyboard. > > > > > > > > > > Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/30/07, shuddha at sarai.net < shuddha at sarai.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > > > Hell comes in different flavours, as I tried to explain in an > > > > > earlier > > > > > > post, > > > > > > and as is evident from your posting of the brutal treatment > > > > > meted out to a > > > > > > > > > > > > young woman who has been the victim of gang rape in Saudi > > > > > Arabia. > > > > > > > > > > > > Being against one kind of hell does not mean that we have to be > > > > > the > > > > > > partisans of other kinds of hell, elsewhere. The kind of > > > > > intellectual that > > > > > > > > > > > > I find interesting it the one who has no problem at all in terms > > > > > of > > > > > > evolving an engaged critique of oppression, no matter what form > > > > > it takes, > > > > > > no matter where it occurs. That is why, despite our respect for > > > > > people > > > > > > like > > > > > > Noam Chomsky, some of us took it upon ourselves to sharply > > > > > criticize his > > > > > > prevaricating apology for the 'Left Front' government's violence > > > > > against > > > > > > its own subjects in West Bengal > > > > > > > > > > > > And so, contrary to your expectations, some of those of us who > > > > > have been > > > > > > active on this list in arguing against the Indian state's > > > > > military > > > > > > occupation of the Kashmir valley have had no problems at all in > > > > > being > > > > > > determined in our opposition to oppression when it occurs in > > > > > Left Front > > > > > > ruled West Bengal, in the current conditions of military > > > > > dictatorship in > > > > > > Burma and Pakistan, or for that matter when it occurs under the > > > > > aegis of > > > > > > the Ibn Saud dynasty in Saudi Arabia. Tomorrow, if North Korea > > > > > were to be > > > > > > discussed on this list, I would be certain that there will be > > > > > clear > > > > > > arguments on this list against the imbecilic regime that rules > > > > > North Korea > > > > > > at the moment. The list can be justifiedly expanded to include > > > > > Iran, the > > > > > > United States, Russia and many other countries and states. > > > > > > > > > > > > Saudi Arabia is one of the most horrible places on the planet. > > > > > It is ruled > > > > > > by a corrupt, decadent ruling elite and kept in place by money, > > > > > weapons > > > > > > and > > > > > > influence wielded by British and American corporate intersts and > > > > > foreign > > > > > > policy. If the international community was justified in > > > > > operating a set of > > > > > > sanctions against the hated South African apartheid regime, it > > > > > should have > > > > > > > > > > > > no business in cosying up to the sexist, slave-owning, > > > > > xenophobic, > > > > > > anti-semitic Saudi regime which is the favourite retirement > > > > > support agency > > > > > > of third rate dictators like Idi Amin and corrupt rulers like > > > > > Nawaz > > > > > > Sharif. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Saudi Monarchy, which rose to eminence as the stooge of > > > > > British > > > > > > foreign > > > > > > policy in the middle east in the early twentieth century > > > > > presides over an > > > > > > imbecilic and paranoid gloss of Islam, and the particularly > > > > > Salafist brand > > > > > > > > > > > > of Islam that is held out as an ideal by the Saudi monarchy and > > > > > its rented > > > > > > clerics is rightly rejected by the majority of Muslims in the > > > > > world. Its > > > > > > significance lies only in that it is backed by petro-dollars and > > > > > American > > > > > > fighter jets. > > > > > > > > > > > > One does not have to link the decadence of current Saudi Arabia > > > > > to the > > > > > > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of > > > > > abominations > > > > > > that need to be fought, and fought till they are destroyed. I > > > > > would be > > > > > > just > > > > > > as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism perish in Saudi Arabia, > > > > > as I would > > > > > > be to see the short, sharp end of Moditva and Hindutva in > > > > > Gujarat and in > > > > > > India. > > > > > > > > > > > > regards. > > > > > > > > > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2:13 pm 11/30/07 "Pawan Durani" < pawan.durani at gmail.com > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Would Someone Puhleez link this to Modi , RSS & Hindutva > > > > > > > ..........some intellectual surely would .............. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/ > > > > > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/rape-victim-ordered-200-lashes-and > > > > > > > > > > > > -prison-by-saudi-judges/ > > > > > > > What can be called a travesty of judiciary, the Saudi Arabia's > > > > > Higher > > > > > > > Judicial Council has actually sentenced a rape victim to > > > > > receive 200 > > > > > > > lashes and prison while the perpetrators of humanity's most > > > > > heinous > > > > > > > crime were allowed to walk free. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 19-year-old Shiite woman who was raped by six armed men > > > > > was > > > > > > > originally sentenced to receive 90 lashes for traveling in the > > > > > car of > > > > > > > an 'unrelated male' at the time of the rape. However after the > > > > > woman > > > > > > > had the temerity of not unquestioningly submitting herself to > > > > > be > > > > > > > tortured as punishment of being raped, the judges on Saudi > > > > > Arabia's > > > > > > > Higher Judicial Council more than doubled her punishment for > > > > > > > attempting to influence the judiciary through the media. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Her lawyer, human right activist Abdul Rahman al-Lahem, has > > > > > been > > > > > > > banned from carrying her case further. His license has been > > > > > revoked > > > > > > > and he has been called to appear before a disciplinary > > > > > committee for > > > > > > > challenging the judgment, which only punished the victim of > > > > > the crime > > > > > > > and not its perpetrators. The Sunni rapists were given a > > > > > paltry > > > > > > > sentence of one to five years of imprisonment. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the horrendous state of a country that keeps its women > > > > > > > > > > > > forcefully behind veils only to extenuate and encourage > > > > > heinous > > > > > > > crimes against them in the name of maintaining social > > > > > discipline. > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > > > > > with > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: > > > > > https://mail.sarai.ne > > > > > > > t/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > +919811047132 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Partha Dasgupta > > +919811047132 > > > -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 15:35:46 2007 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:05:46 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Musee Guimet Press Conference Message-ID: For anyone in Dhaka, there is a press conference starting approx. 4pm BDT at protesting sending of artifacts to Musee Guimet while the citizen's case was still pending. http://www.drishtipat.org/blog/2007/11/30/guimet-protests/ Gallery Shilpangan Road 3/A Dhanmondi Today (Dec 1). From bangalorefilmsociety at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 16:11:56 2007 From: bangalorefilmsociety at gmail.com (Bangalore Film Society ,) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:11:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Call for Papers: Water and Cinema Message-ID: Voices from the Waters Call for Papers The brewing storm of Pather Panchali, love, drizzle, umbrellas and sidewalks of Shri 420, the constant downpour of the industrial future in 'Blade Runner'… the liquid grace of water has always fine tuned the iconic scenes of cinema. Cinema owes this blue elixir heightened emotions and delicate charm. As this magical resource increasingly becomes scarce, as the drought sets in, as it is tagged with a price, Deep Focus Film Quarterly proposes to dedicate the April 2008 edition to the cause and celebration of that precious bounty, WATER. We invite well-researched articles on the theme of water in cinema. These may include articles on short and full length feature films and documentaries based in the context of water issues- water scarcity, dams, droughts, floods, global climate change, deforestation, conservation and water as culture and life, interviews with filmmaker-activists working in the field of water and articles tracing the relationship of water and cinema over the ages. Articles having a word-count of between 2000 to 4000 should be neatly typed with double spacing and should reach us by 28th February 2008. It is very important to include film stills to illustrate your article. Please mail in your articles at deep.focus at rediffmail.com, bangalorefilmsociety at gmail.com The Editor, Deep Focus Film Quarterly, 33/1-9, Thyagaraja Layout, Jai Bharath Nagar, M.S. Nagar P.O., Bangalore- 560 033. From shuddha at sarai.net Sat Dec 1 16:59:31 2007 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 16:59:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rape Victim ordered 200 lashes and prison by Saudi judges In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70711302112r2edf5507y31be234c62a232d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70711300043t1c3d3ff5vcfc303fddcc99c11@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70711302112r2edf5507y31be234c62a232d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5f79ff834aa9019a5087d3ff62d09cd5@sarai.net> Dear Pawan, I am well aware of the ground realities of any situation I choose to write about. I am sure, that you must be aware by now that I make it my business to research anything that I write about on the reader list in some detail. I suggest you take a close look at your own levels of awareness of what you claim as your own history (I notice, for instance, that there is as yet no reply from you or Rashneek to my annotations on the history of iconoclasm in Kashmir). And no, I am neither a member, nor a sympathizer of any "M-L type of organization". I would urge you not to make public assumptions about the biographies of individuals you do not know. It's risky, you end up running the risk of being called either a liar, or being exposed as being very ignorant. You also run the risk of being accused (rightly, in my opinion) of defamation if you continue to articulate assumptions of this nature on any public platform. So, be careful. I think that your problem is that you want to put people into neat boxes, on which you want to put labels that your limited understand can make snese of, and then assign you assign to these lablels - roles in the shadow boxing joust of your own imagination. So, first you decided that you would corner us by sending us the details of the atrocities of so called communist regimes, then, when we argued that the atrocities of so called communist regimes are indefensible, you changed tack. When we argued strongly against the atrocities of regimes led by communist parties, such as has happenned in West Bengal, you turned around and defended Buddhadeb Bhattacharya. You tried to invoke Sethusamudran, then, when we said yes, Sethusamudran was a bad idea, you had no space left to squirm. Then you post some atrocity in Saudi Arabia, and we say, yes Saudi Arabia is hell, and now, you have less and less room to maneuver. Really, it must be hard being you. Finally, whenever you have nothing left to say, when your arguments are in shambles, when your misrepresentations stand exposed, you invoke and hurl the term 'intellectual' as a term of abuse. As if the work of evolving a critical understanding of the world were something to be ashamed of. I see no reason to be ashamed of intellectual work, just as I see no reason to be ashamed or any other kind of human activity. Can you imagine a situation where we would go around churlishly accusing each other of being 'pastry cooks', or 'dancers' or 'acrobats' or 'steelworkers' or 'photo shop operators' whenever we were faced with the weakness of our own positions and arguments. It would be absured. It would actually be pathetic. And when you cry 'intellectual' you sound just as absurd, just as pathetic, just as infantile. You write, you argue, you try to present your view of the world. Unfortunately, that makes you an intellectual. Just as what I do makes me an intellectual. There can be debate about the quality of our arguments, about how well they stand up to reason, and to the complexities of our times. There can be arguments about whether or not our intellectual work is of any value. But accusing people of being 'intellectuals' per se, is frankly, neither here, nor there. It is a meaningless statement. We all have a lot of things to do in our lives. And believe me, arguing with you is only a very minor, highly insignificant detail in the rich tapestry of our days. Regardless, it shall continue to be done, whenever it is crucially necessary for it to be done. Take my advice, relax, chill out, think about a few things other than what you have made your pet obsession, and don't jump to the gun all the time. You misfire, badly. And sometimes the bullets ricochet in your own direction. Or as we might say in football parlance "self-goal se bachte raho saathi" ("stay clear of self goals, friend") regards Shuddha On 10:42 am 12/01/07 "Pawan Durani" wrote: > > Dear Shuddha , While as you have an obsession with Modi and looking at how > few of you try to link everything and anything communal happening with > Modi , I wonder where does your conscience lead to ? Each time you > quote " Indian States Military Occupation In Kashmir " , > without knowing the ground reality talk of your ignorance of the ground > reality . You would be ready to accept figures given by a terrorist or > a separatist organisation and at the same time averse to the real > figures. Each time you tend to ignore the genocide of hindus which > happened over a period of time , but you feel merry to spread > discontent among minorties by harping on a one time incident of > Gujarat. Each time you talk about structure of Ram Temple being > destroyed [ which some of you called Babri ] , and at the same time non > of you have ever discussed hundreds of temples being broken down to > peices in Kashmir . Each time you talk about liberty of expression and > at the same time you want all these liberties to be taken with Hindu > relegion. Each time you talk of secular parties which you love even > though thay may be aligned with a ML type of organisation and at the > same time you need an anti allergic tablet if BJP is called secularist > as well. Each time you speak of evil in Babu bajrangi but you have > closed your thoughts for Yasin Maliks , Bitta karate and Hamdanis. Cmon > ...get over Modi fixation . get over your thought that Indian state has > "occupied" Kashmir. Get over that Military is anti people in > Kashmir . Get real.....life is much more real than typing few words on > the keyboard. Pawan Durani > > On 11/30/07, shuddha at sarai.net wrote: Dear Pawan, > > Hell comes in different flavours, as I tried to explain in an earlier > post, and as is evident from your posting of the brutal treatment > meted out to a young woman who has been the victim of gang rape in > Saudi Arabia. > > Being against one kind of hell does not mean that we have to be the > partisans of other kinds of hell, elsewhere. The kind of intellectual > that I find interesting it the one who has no problem at all in terms > of evolving an engaged critique of oppression, no matter what form it > takes, no matter where it occurs. That is why, despite our respect > for people like Noam Chomsky, some of us took it upon ourselves to > sharply criticize his prevaricating apology for the 'Left > Front' government's violence against its own subjects in West > Bengal > > And so, contrary to your expectations, some of those of us who have > been active on this list in arguing against the Indian state's > military occupation of the Kashmir valley have had no problems at all > in being determined in our opposition to oppression when it occurs in > Left Front ruled West Bengal, in the current conditions of military > dictatorship in Burma and Pakistan, or for that matter when it occurs > under the aegis of the Ibn Saud dynasty in Saudi Arabia. Tomorrow, if > North Korea were to be discussed on this list, I would be certain > that there will be clear arguments on this list against the imbecilic > regime that rules North Korea at the moment. The list can be > justifiedly expanded to include Iran, the United States, Russia and > many other countries and states. > > Saudi Arabia is one of the most horrible places on the planet. It is > ruled by a corrupt, decadent ruling elite and kept in place by money, > weapons and influence wielded by British and American corporate > intersts and foreign policy. If the international community was > justified in operating a set of sanctions against the hated South > African apartheid regime, it should have no business in cosying up to > the sexist, slave-owning, xenophobic, anti-semitic Saudi regime which > is the favourite retirement support agency of third rate dictators > like Idi Amin and corrupt rulers like Nawaz Sharif. > > The Saudi Monarchy, which rose to eminence as the stooge of British > foreign policy in the middle east in the early twentieth century > presides over an imbecilic and paranoid gloss of Islam, and the > particularly Salafist brand of Islam that is held out as an ideal by > the Saudi monarchy and its rented clerics is rightly rejected by the > majority of Muslims in the world. Its significance lies only in that > it is backed by petro-dollars and American fighter jets. > > One does not have to link the decadence of current Saudi Arabia to the > venality of Moditva/Hindutva. They are two different kinds of > abominations that need to be fought, and fought till they are > destroyed. I would be just as happy to see Salafist Islamo-fascism > perish in Saudi Arabia, as I would be to see the short, sharp end of > Moditva and Hindutva in Gujarat and in India. > > regards. > > Shuddha > > > > On 2:13 pm 11/30/07 "Pawan Durani" < pawan.durani at gmail.com> > wrote: > > Would Someone Puhleez link this to Modi , RSS & Hindutva > > ..........some intellectual surely would .............. > > > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/ > > http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/rape-victim-ordered-200-lashes- > and > > -prison-by-saudi-judges/ > > What can be called a travesty of judiciary, the Saudi Arabia's > > Higher Judicial Council has actually sentenced a rape victim to > > receive 200 lashes and prison while the perpetrators of > > humanity's most heinous crime were allowed to walk free. > > > > The 19-year-old Shiite woman who was raped by six armed men was > > originally sentenced to receive 90 lashes for traveling in the car > > of an 'unrelated male' at the time of the rape. However > > after the woman had the temerity of not unquestioningly submitting > > herself to be tortured as punishment of being raped, the judges on > > Saudi Arabia's Higher Judicial Council more than doubled her > > punishment for attempting to influence the judiciary through the > > media. > > Her lawyer, human right activist Abdul Rahman al-Lahem, has been > > banned from carrying her case further. His license has been > > revoked and he has been called to appear before a disciplinary > > committee for challenging the judgment, which only punished the > > victim of the crime and not its perpetrators. The Sunni rapists > > were given a paltry sentence of one to five years of imprisonment. > > > > This is the horrendous state of a country that keeps its women > > forcefully behind veils only to extenuate and encourage heinous > > crimes against them in the name of maintaining social discipline. > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.ne t/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: &lt;https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/ > > From kokopeli at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 23:27:07 2007 From: kokopeli at gmail.com (Sujata & Samantak) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 23:27:07 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "Final" Interim Report on Citizens' Visit to Nandigram In-Reply-To: <556b1d6b0711301153x1899c04bvde0351d7917ac6ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <556b1d6b0711301153x1899c04bvde0351d7917ac6ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <556b1d6b0712010957y1a463168pd19fbc262f8d5b7c@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, As mentioned in my earlier post, here's the "Final" Interim Report. One member of this list asked, "Was it interim report, where all the balancing acts were incomplete, so have to be given finishing touches by the spin doctors of media?" In fact it wasn't. The report had been prepared by friends, who asked me to write to all those I'd sent the report to telling them that some more information would be included in the "final" interim report. Since you have both versions of the interim report, you can judge for yourself whether it has been subjected to "spin" or not. Thank you. Samantak ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Trina Banerjee < trina.banerjee at gmail.com> Date: 30 Nov 2007 12:11 Subject: Final Interim Report :) Dear All, Here's the *FINAL Interim Report* (sounds mighty strange, I realise, but there it is) about our Nandigram visit on the 24rth.I apologize for the delay and the confusion. Do delete the earlier version and take this as our Interim Report. If you have already sent the last version out, as I know some of you have: do take the trouble to send this version out too. If any of you would like to see photos from our visit, write to me personally...I have some, I'll send them over. We've tried to avoid photographing people we've interviewed for safety reasons, but you will get a general idea of the way things look in Nandigram. We wish to take this citizens' initiative forward with further visits, especially with students and teachers...so if you have any ideas/thoughts you'd like to share urgently, do write in to me (along with a note to say whether I have the permission to share those thoughts/ideas/plans with other people who are/wish to be part of the initiative). Lots of love Trina. - -- Trina Nileena Banerjee Doctoral Fellow Centre for Studies in Social Sciences Calcutta. *Final Interim Report of an Independent Citizens' Team from Kolkata * *on the Current State of Affairs in Nandigram* *30 November 2007* As a result of an initiative instituted by women's groups, women's organizations and individuals, an eleven-member women's team of concerned citizens from Kolkata comprising teachers, social activists, researchers and students visited Nandigram on 24 November 2007. Concerned about the repeated disruption of peace in the region, the members decided to visit the affected areas and talk to the local people, with the objectives of showing solidarity with the survivors of violence, documenting people's needs in the current circumstances, and drawing up recommendations based on their understanding of the situation. The people who constituted this team were Kavita Panjabi, Anuradha Kapoor, Rajashri Dasgupta, Saswati Ghosh, Shyamoli Das, Swapna Banerjee, Trina Nileena Banerjee, Shuktara Lal, Sushmita Sinha, Shubhasree Bhattacharya and Sourinee Mirdha. On arrival in Nandigram at the Relief Camp at Brij Mohan Tiwari Shiksha Niketan, the team split into two groups. One talked to the people in the Relief Camp, the other to a woman who had been sexually assaulted and the injured in Nandigram Hospital. One group then proceeded to the villages of Sonachura and Garchakraberia, also stopping at the Bhangaberia Bridge where the CRPF is stationed; the other half of the team went to the village of Daudpur. This interim report comprises the general findings and recommendations of all the members of the team that visited Nandigram on the 24th of November. The specific testimonies and individual stories will be included in the final report. * * *PRIMARY FINDINGS:** * 1) Overall there is a reign of terror; the people are marked by deep fear, disillusionment and depression. Since January, Nandigram has been marked by the violence of the State in tandem with the ruling CPI(M), and the retaliatory attacks by the BUPC[1]<#116921e9aeba257e_1169218d5a46c521__ftn1>. The massive attack of the state on the BUPC procession in March 14th, 2007, clearly violated all democratic norms and involved armed police, para-military forces, as well as armed party cadres, including rampant shooting and widespread sexual abuse of women. Subsequently, in numerous villages post March 14, there were reports that many CPI(M) supporters were forced to flee to relief camps in Khejuri and that their homes were ransacked and looted by BUPC supporters. There has been continued violence since on both sides. However, the build up in the area of the CPI(M) militia, the *Harmad Bahini*, the brutal firing by CPI(M) cadres on November 6, 2007 of BUPC members in Satengabari, Ranichak, Bhangabera and Sonachura, and the torching of nine villages including Simulkunda and Satengabari, followed by the attack on November 10, 2007 at Maheshpur village in Nandigram, when armed CPI(M) cadres fired bullets indiscriminately at a peace rally organised by BUPC with the police taking no steps to intervene, all demonstrate the scale and might of the violence exercised by the ruling CPI(M), with the full support of the State. 2) The people of Nandigram are now living in terror of the CPI(M) which has now taken over most of the Nandigram villages and is out to extract vengeance on the BUPC and its supporters. Criminals who have killed, sexually assaulted and injured people continue to threaten the population of the villages. Many who had tried to return to their villages but had to come back to the Relief Camp spoke of bombs and firing that they heard even on the 23rd night when they had tried to return to their homes. And the night-time threats, especially against women, also continue. Across all the villages, people testified to the complete loss of political freedom – they are being forced to pledge their allegiance to one particular party or the other, and they talked angrily about their right to decide which party they wanted to support. The people in the camp, as well as the majority in the villages, have lost all confidence in the government, administration and police. 3) At the Relief Camp at Brij Mohan Tiwari Shiksha Niketan in Nandigram town, villagers testified to rampant firing, brutal killing and large-scale threats by the cadres of the CPI(M), the ruling party, across the villages of Gokulnagar, Kalicharanpur, Adhikaripara, Simulkunda and Satengabari. About 20-25,000 people have left their homes according to people in the camps. Of them, 3000 to 3500 people had been living in this camp approximately 1500 of whom were still there on 24th November. The People's Health doctors working in the Relief Camp said they had not received any complaints of sexual or physical assault, but mainly children's health related complaints, like cough, fever, diarrhoea. However, many people in the camps carried scars of deep bullet injuries on their faces, stomachs and legs and women told us about a woman who had been gang raped in Satengabari by 6-7 men, who is now in Tamluk hospital. Both her daughters, one about 17, one younger, were abducted. They are still missing. Further, hundreds of women who had fled Kalicharanpur, Adhikaripara, Simulkunda and Satengabari in fear of sexual assault were still in the Nandigram camp. They testified that not only had their homes been looted and burnt down, in villages like Satengabari they had also been severely threatened by CPI(M) cadres, who came around saying "We'll come back at night – light your lamps and wait for us with open doors. Send your men away, we'll come back to you at night." "How can we stay in a place under such threats?" the women asked. Women of these villages are still living in fear of being sexually abused, and young girls have been sent to relatives' homes elsewhere. The fear and insecurity of the villagers – especially the women at the Nandigram camp – has been so high that they have refused to go back to their villages till the CRPF is posted there to ensure their safety and protect them from the violent vengeance of the *Harmad Bahini* comprising CPI(M) cadres. 4) Extensive physical abuse and sexual abuse of women, ranging from rape and forcing of rods into women's vaginas, to rampant sexual harassment, as well as abduction of girls has been reported since March this year, but not much has been done to provide relief to the women, or to initiate investigation against and punish the perpetrators. Such violence against women continues, accompanied by terrifying threats, and there is no evidence of any steps having been taken to curb either. 5) Some of the people who had participated in the unarmed march to Maheshpur on 10th November were arrested and locked up for three days in the school building. The women were subjected to repeated sexual harassment by male CPI(M) cadres who claimed the women were Maoists. 6) In villages such as Garchakraberia, where the CRPF has already been posted, normal life and activity seem to have returned; however, there is simmering tension and fear under the facade of peace. At night, when CRPF personnel go off vigil, assailants begin their attacks again; so people have been forced to flee their homes at night and take shelter elsewhere from fear of reprisal. Villagers claim this is a forced calm and are terrified of what may happen when the CRPF is withdrawn. 7) Some residents of Sonachura also expressed their anger and frustration at the TMC leaders of the BUPC for keeping their own women safe at home, while forcing other women in the villages to join the BUPC marches and threatening to beat and burn down the homes of all who refused. Many people in Sonachura were also scared of admitting to the violence they have faced from the CPI(M), claiming that they had been threatened into silence. 8) The situation in Daudpur is still very tense and the administration should take immediate measures to address this. There is resentment and anger brewing among the villagers. People openly accuse each other of violence while questioning the authority and corruption of particular CPI(M) leaders. Some villagers also claimed that the BUPC forced people to volunteer to stand as night guards against the armed attacks from CPI(M)'s *Harmad Bahini* after 28 October. 9) Villagers testified that the police are playing a partisan role. BUPC members returning to their villages were being arrested, some on false charges. Others are being levied exorbitant "fines" to "compensate for the damages done to the CPI(M) families in the last 11 months." Complaints about the atrocities of the CPI(M) followers were either not registered, or the accused were released after being arrested, without any of the legal procedures being followed. 10) The senior police officer at the Relief Camp refused to comment on most of our questions. He i) hinted at pressure from some political parties ii) implied that work was being made "difficult" due to "interference" iii) said peace is returning to the villages, but the situation is "still difficult". 11) While language is proving to be a barrier for the CRPF in dealing with the volatile situation here, there are apparent efforts to restore peace, including red-flag processions etc. But the atmosphere outside the temporary 'protection' of the Relief Camp is of extreme terror. In spite of all apparent efforts and assurance on the part of the authorities, this terror is persistent. 12) There is a tremendous breakdown of trust. The villages of Nandigram are zones of pregnant silence today – they are zones of seething fear, terror, suspicion and threat. Common people are suffering and living in fear and their tragedy is heightened because of the partisan role played by the police * * *RECOMMENDATIONS:* 1. Non-partisan, just and effective action on the part of the State is the most basic and critical factor for restoring peace in Nandigram. The government must strengthen administrative structures and ensure impartial and immediate action on the part of the administration to instill confidence in the people and normalize the situation in Nandigram. Conditions must be created for people to renew their daily social and economic activities without fear and apprehension of reprisal. 2. The violence in Nandigram must be stopped. i) All arms in the possession of the entire population of all the villages of Nandigram must be confiscated. ii) The area must be rid of all outside cadres. iii) All criminals, irrespective of political affiliation must be arrested immediately and tried; and iv) effective vigilance should be set in place against all those indulging in retaliatory and revengeful acts that will derail the peace process. 3. We demand responsible action now from all the political partiestoo. They must stop exploiting the situation, abstain from violence, and play a constructive role in bringing peace back to Nandigram. 4. Rape and sexual assault have clearly become dominant weapons of war in the crossfire between vested political interests in Nandigram. i) Urgent measures must be taken by the administration and the police to stop this immediately. ii) Perpetrators have been resorting to sexual assault on women to intimidate, humiliate and subjugate the opposition, while the opposition has been using incidents of rape to discredit the perpetrators, not to seek justice for the women affected. We demand a complete and immediate stop to such practices and to all threats of sexual violence too. 5. The administration should also ensure that all rape cases are registered, thoroughly investigated, and followed up. Cases where women have been brutally assaulted should also receive the attention they merit and should not be brushed aside merely because the case was not one of rape. Sexual assault is a serious offence and must be dealt with as such. All victims of sexual assault must be provided immediate medical treatment and their privacy respected and dignity upheld. 6. Both men, and large numbers of women, especially those subject to sexual assault and/or rape, are now severely traumatized and have sunk into visibly deep depression or shock. The government should set up a counselling cell in Nandigram or authorize an NGO to do so for the purpose of trauma alleviation. 7. Those who are suffering from the latest violence, as well as those who have been injured earlier in the year, cannot afford the medicationrequired. Many cannot work as they could earlier. On both counts, their livelihood is adversely affected. Compensation to the injured and raped, and to the families of the dead should be made available on an urgent footing. Women and children have been the worst sufferers of the violence; attention should be paid to their special needs, and efforts made to restore their dignity and confidence in the process of rehabilitation. The SDO/BDO should ensure that the grant promised to repair houses must be distributed without any partisan preference. 8. The presence of the CRPF can ensure only a temporary and forced calm. This is no solution to the reign of terror. The state must set in place peacemaking efforts, and involve all political parties and people's organisations in the region to renew the democratic process and enable citizens to reclaim the lost democratic space for a lasting and just peace in the area. People's political rights must be ensured. Democracy does not mean the rule of the majority, but ensuring the rights and respect of the minority and those holding opposing political opinions and beliefs too. Concerted efforts have to be made, across all political differences, to control the spate of vengeance, and rebuild the confidence of the people of Nandigram who are living with violence as well as the fear of violence on a day to day basis. __________________________ - ------------------------------ [1] <#116921e9aeba257e_1169218d5a46c521__ftnref1> The Bhumi Uchhed Pratirodh Committee (BUPC) is a committee formed by people across the villages of Nandigram in January 2007, to represent the people's movement against the complete absence of democratic processes in the state's move to acquire land for setting up an SEZ. While the state has subsequently announced a withdrawal of its plans to build an SEZ here, the people of Nandigram have no faith in this declaration as they have received no official document to that effect as yet. Nandigram had been a predominantly CPI(M) area till the beginning of this year. The BUPC membership cut across all political parties and included supporters of the ruling CPI(M), the TMC, the BJP, and the SUCI, and the people adopted a black flag as symbol of the BUPC to emphasize its independence as a committee beyond any particular party affiliation. Across the year the TMC has gained force in Nandigram and taken over the BUPC leadership. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 00:50:53 2007 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 01:20:53 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Tintin in Bengal, or Musee Guimet Controversy Message-ID: Tintin in Bengal, or Musee Guimet Controversy Naeem Mohaiemen The two month simmering controversy in Bangladesh over the countroversial loan of priceless, centuries old artifacts to France's Musee Guimet burst into the open yesterday. In the early dawn hours of Friday, a day when many of us are sleeping in, relaxing, addafying, or contemplating unfinished art projects, a convoy of trucks were loaded with crates of artifacts from the National Museum. Headed to ZIA airport, en route to Paris. Is Paris burning, what's the rush..? The French Embassy and some Bangladesh government officials had decided that matters had dragged on long enough. The show was supposed to open 24th October, but Bangladesh citizen groups had thrown a chaku in the works. With a citizens lawsuit blocking the loan, and an investigative committee deadline 45 days away, the first shipment got underway in defiance of good manners and international law. Word leaked out, and protesters gathered. Gates were scaled, human chains formed, a protester was arrested. But the dawn tactics had worked. By the time more people arrived on the scene, the trucks were on their way. Positions hardened further after the truck fiasco. On the evening news, angry phone calls. Apparently some ground staff at the airport did all they could to block the flight. This actually doesn't take much-- just our normal airport bureacracy (which I was cursing out only a month ago when my video camera was falling prey to it) raised a few notches. The Air France cargo plane sat on the tarmac, missing its midnight rendezvous. But finally five hours later, in dawn hours of Saturday, up up and away. When the controversy first broke, many of us were too confused to take sides. On both sides of the fence were cultural producers and activists whom many of us respected. Even the lawyers representing two parties were familiar rights activists. One friend said to me "boba r shotru nai (the deaf-mute has no enemies), best to stay silent bhai. Too many big guns on both sides." The opposition to the loan initially felt like kneejerk nationalism to me. In my naivette I dismissed their concerns. The French are the good guys no, isn't it Americans we are all afraid of now? Surely the French wouldn't dare do anything to our collection, uhh would they..? I spent way too much time reading Tintin comics in my wasted youth. But Tintin in Congo remained untranslated until I found a bootleg copy where Tintin is teaching the African natives "repeat after me, France is your mother". Now I imagined myself as a rubber-lipped sambo. Yessa boss. Did King Leopold collect art as well? I went down to the Alliance Francaise cafe, 5 blocks from my home, to investigate. Alliance administers a benevolent patriarch attitude towards the uninvited unwashed at special events (expats in Dhaka live in splendid bubbles and green zone fortresses). But in the daytime (and at non-guest list events) you can just stroll in. Why did the Guimet want this show so badly? They had already missed the show opening deadline. If there was so much opposition inside Bangladesh, shouldn't they at least show courtesy and sensitivity and delay until the issue is resolved? Tish tosh explained the man at the next table: "the people who oppose the loan just don't want the world to know that this region has such an incredible pre-Islamic heritage." Sounds reasonable. Those who oppose this loan are the enemies of globalization. But then why would Shishir Bhattacharjee, professor at Art College, be one of those opposing the loan. He's always been on the mullah's hitlist of progressive professors... A few days later I saw artist Nisar Hossein's name on the same committee. That's odd I thought, Nisar is no dum-dum either. But it's true that the people opposing the loan were initially not good communicators. Their opposition was often focused on the esoteric edges of the debate, rather than the hard facts. But in the last few weeks they started producing more documentation, and more importantly, footnotes. That's when things changed for many of us, because the facts on the ground don't make you oppose loans to European museums per se, but they do highlight that numerous rules have been broken-- all adding up to extreme lack of safety for the collection. More facts emerged, by and by... 1. Lack of documentation a) entire sets of coins catalogued as "coins", with no specifics b) missing accession numbers c) mismatch between number of pieces documented by the French photographer who catalogued the show, the number given in French embassy contract, and the number in Embassy's press release d) incomplete descriptions, missing descriptions e) ridiculously low insurance value of 4 million Euros, for a collection that dates back to 4th century BC. An international archaeological expert has since called this appraisal "financial fraud". 2. The French role There's no doubt that some of the items in #1 were caused by sheer incompetence and possible mal-intentions of the Bangladesh side. But if Bangladesh officials are incapable of protecting their own national heritage (Bangladesh has been identified as one of 3 countries most vulnerable to cultural looting) should the French government, French Embassy and Musee Guimet take advantage of that weakness? a) Musee Guimet is one of 18 museums that have signed a Declaration on Importance and Value of Universal Museums, which opposes returning art works, especially ancient ones, to their original owners. This is in direct opposition to the UNESCO Convention on Stolen and Illegally Exported Cultural Objects (1995). b) Kwame Opoku has said: "Musée Guimet in Paris which incidentally also holds thousands of stolen/illegal objects from China and the rest of Asia" has increased citizen debate about the lending. c) Guimet director Jean-Francois Jarriage in the late 50's had worked in the department of archeology in Bangladesh (then East Pakistan). During this period, one of the most prized artefacts, a relic casket was taken to France for restoration. Mr. Zakaria, former secretary of the ministry of culture has been unsuccessfully campaigning for the return of the casket for the last 49 years. 3. What next? Now the action moves to France. One shipment of 10 crates is already in Paris. Another shipment of 13 crates may leave very soon as well (another midnight haul?). Bangladeshi activists are starting to petition European media to start building up pressure on Guimet and the French government. Paris-based Bangladeshi artist Shahabuddin and others are planning human chains in front of the Guimet. How far is Guimet willing to go to keep this show. How far are we willing to go? Positions have hardened into stone after Friday's confrontation. An initial draft of the Experts' Letter to the French Government (full letter @ end of this email) included this conciliatory paragraph: "We urge the French government and citizens, museum professionals, preservationists and all global cultural practitioners to demand that Musee Guimet immediately cease plans for the "Masterpieces of the Ganges Delta" show until each archaeological artifact in the Bangladesh collection has been examined, photographed, catalogued, appraised and insurance value set by an international panel of experts. Guimet must also take all due diligence steps to resolve the discrepancy between documents, number of items, accession numbers and all other issues that have given rise to questions about lack of transparency in the entire process." But Friday's surprise shipment, and police action against protesters, have hardened suspicion of the Guimet. The concluding paragraph now reads: "While we were originally open to the idea of showing the work at Musee Guimet provided the transparency issues were addressed, the recent actions of the museum has removed any semblance of trust in the organisation, and we are no longer willing to loan our prized possessions to an organisation with such standards of behaviour. The incident, originally restricted to the issue of an exhibition now appears to have created a general distrust in the French government amongst the Bangladeshi public." Bangladesh gets such a small share of international cultural attention, the prevailing attitude is that any positive global attention is good. Especially after being hit by both flood and cyclone (two months apart) this year, some people may be yearning for some positive international image building. This has historically led to a broken-spine approach to European and Northern cultural institutions. The face-off with Musee Guimet shows that things are changing. Fine Arts Professor Lalarukh Selim said on ETV: "Governments will come and go, but the objects that have left the country, we may never get them back. And we couldn't do anything, or what we did was not enough. All of us who spoke up, the French embassy gave that no value. We're a poor country, so people could do whatever they wanted." Could they? Will they? Guimet, this is not over. - Naeem Mohaiemen ################### Further Reading: ################### 1. Protesters Battle Police As Musee Guimet Trucks Roll Out http://www.drishtipat.org/blog/2007/11/30/guimet-protests/ 2. Shahidul Alam: Price of Priceless Objects http://shahidul.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/the-price-of-priceless-objects/ 3. Letter To The French Government & Citizens Subject: Musee Guimet's Non-Transparent Borrowing of Priceless Artifacts from Bangladesh We the undersigned artists, archeologists, anthropologists, academics & other concerned citizens of Bangladesh are writing to express our strong objection to the manner in which Musee Guimet of Paris is taking invaluable artifacts from the national museum and four other leading museums of Bangladesh for a planned show entitled "Masterpieces of the Ganges delta". The Musee Guimet transported the artifacts even after widespread protests and a pending citizens' lawsuit in the Bangladesh court. The manner in which the artifacts were transported, in a secret crating during early morning hours under police guard, added to the controversy. As news of the secret shipment leaked out, protesters gathered to form a human chain, and one protester was arrested. Finally, the first shipment of 10 crates of rare archaeological treasures was taken away, despite resistance, to be flown to Paris on December 1st on an Air France cargo plane. There is also a second shipment of 13 crates which is still pending. While the exhibition, which has been billed as being of outstanding quality, and consists of the most prized objects from all the major museums of Bangladesh, it is not part of an exchange programme. The only items that the Bangladeshi people will receive in return are 20 exhibition catalogues. The lack of transparency surrounding the planned exhibition at Musee Guimet includes allegations of under-valuation of artifacts to the scale of hundreds of millions of dollars, lack of accession numbers on numerous objects, improper and incomplete cataloguing (e.g., referring to a set of coins as merely "coins", with no numbers given), inconsistency between documents, missing descriptions, and descriptions that do not conform to international standards. The official insurance value of the entire collection (stated to be "189 pieces" by the French Embassy) has been set at 4 million Euros for the purposes of this exhibition loan. Such a low insurance value for such a large collection, which dates back to the 4th century BC, has been described by an international archaeological expert as "financial fraud". Even if this incorrect valuation had been completed by the Bangladesh authorities, one questions why an international museum would accept such a patently incorrect valuation. Most worrying of all, the number of pieces identified in documentation created by the French photographer who catalogued the exhibit does not match with the contract signed by the French Ambassador. The number of artifacts in the contract in turn does not match with the official press releases from the Dhaka French Embassy. The controversy over the improper handling of the loan escalated over the last two months, resulting in a citizens' lawsuit (still pending in court) and Bangladesh citizens' group's demanded that the Bangladesh government and French authorities allowed experts to inspect the items as per international standards. The Bangladesh government asked the expert committee that is investigating the matter for time until January 15th, 2008 to respond to the committee's queries. Astonishingly, the Musee Guimet began shipment of the artifacts on 30th November, 2007 -- a full 45 days before the expiry of the Bangladesh government's self-imposed deadline. The Bangladesh government and French Embassy officials have, without informing either the committee or the media, taken the items out of the museum in the surprise shipment described earlier. Musee Guimet is one of 18 museums that have jointly signed a separate Declaration on Importance and Value of Universal Museums, which opposes returning art works, especially ancient ones, to their original owners. This is in direct opposition to the UNESCO Convention on Stolen and Illegally Exported Cultural Objects (1995). This is particularly relevant since the convention was based on the high incidence of theft that was prevailing. Bangladesh was identified as one of the three most vulnerable countries to such threats. Kwame Opoku's recent statement "Musée Guimet in Paris which incidentally also holds thousands of stolen/illegal objects from China and the rest of Asia" has increased citizen debate about the lending. The French embassy in Bangladesh has dismissed the protesters' concern and said "local procedure in connection with the lending is an internal matter of the Bangladesh government" and there is "no risk in lending artifacts". The embassy also dismissed the protests as "eminent citizens with mixed qualifications, many far outside the field of archaeology, or with little experience of international exhibitions." Guimet director Jean-Francois Jarriage and curator of the show Vincent Lefevre refused to meet with Shahidul Alam, a delegate from the protesters, who traveled to Paris for the purposes of securing an explanation. In his own statement, Jean-Francois Jarriage mentions that in the late 50's he had worked in the department of archeology here. Incidentally, it was during that period that one of the most prized artefacts, a relic casket, of our country, was taken to France for restoration. Mr. Zakaria, former secretary of the ministry of culture, who was then working in the archeology department has since campaigned for the return of the casket, but has failed to get a response from the French government over the last 49 years. The original show at Musée National des Arts Asiatiques - Guimet was billed as "Masterpieces of the Ganges delta. Collections from the Bangladesh Museums." The original scheduled dates for the show were 24th October 2007 to 3rd May 2008. The controversy has pushed back the date of the show, but as of today Musee Guimet remains adamant about showing the work without satisfying the demands of the concerned Bangladeshi citizens. While we were originally open to the idea of showing the work at Musee Guimet provided the transparency issues were addressed, the recent actions of the museum has removed any semblance of trust in the organisation, and we are no longer willing to loan our prized possessions to an organisation with such standards of behaviour. The incident, originally restricted to the issue of an exhibition now appears to have created a general distrust in the French government amongst the Bangladeshi public. Signed A. K. M. Zakaria, archeologist and former secretary, ministry of cultural affairs, GOB (Government Of Bangladesh). Nazimuddin Ahmed, archeologist, former director, department of archeology, GOB. Shamsuzzaman Khan, museologist, former director general, Bangladesh National Museum. Bulbon Osman, art historian, former director institute of fine arts, Dhaka University. Syed Jahangir, painter, former director, department of fine arts, Shilpakala Academy (Academy of Fine and Performing Arts), GOB. Borhanuddin Khan Jahangir, art historian, former pro Vice Chancellor, National University of Bangladesh. A. K. M. Shahnawaz, professor, department of archeology, Jahangirnagar University. From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 01:19:54 2007 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 01:49:54 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] URL for Tintin In Bengal Message-ID: The Guimet write-up has been uploaded here. http://www.drishtipat.org/blog/2007/12/01/tintin-bengal Follow the links at bottom to see images of protest, etc. From shuddha at sarai.net Sun Dec 2 03:37:29 2007 From: shuddha at sarai.net (shuddha at sarai.net) Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2007 03:37:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Rape Victim ordered 200 lashes and prison by Saudi judges In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70712010917g54e4ff87w94e9c10a6e61b632@mail.gmail.com> References: <6b79f1a70711300043t1c3d3ff5vcfc303fddcc99c11@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70711302112r2edf5507y31be234c62a232d8@mail.gmail.com> <5f79ff834aa9019a5087d3ff62d09cd5@sarai.net> <6b79f1a70712010917g54e4ff87w94e9c10a6e61b632@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3136ff0ea4f42814d3db03014e033618@sarai.net> Dear Pawan, Namaskar.Thanks for your prompt reply. 1. What motivates me (and others) to engage with you is the mindless energy you display in promoting your agenda. The list requires regular detoxes after your postings, and I find myself taking on part of that task (along with many others) whenever I think it becomes necessary. But do not mistake this willingness with the fact that I have nothing better to do. 2. Nationalism is an idea with which I have serious philosophical and ethical problems. It is my conscience, not my ego, that comes between me and nationalism. My postings (or any other writing) against the military occupation of Kashmir by the Indian state are not made for the sake of the comfort of my ego, rather it is done in an effort to co