From vivek at sarai.net Tue Apr 1 09:42:05 2008 From: vivek at sarai.net (Vivek Narayanan) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2008 09:42:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Nim Chimpsky Message-ID: <47F1B615.90201@sarai.net> http://www.salon.com/books/int/2008/03/31/Nim_Chimpsky/index.html Fascinating and sad story of Nim Chimpsky, the chimp who was raised as a boy... From chiarapassa at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 16:20:59 2008 From: chiarapassa at gmail.com (Chiara Passa) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 12:50:59 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] [A10medialab] ()RE | BOOT 11th/12th April Event In-Reply-To: <20080331204022.ffyr4ik8u8wckk88@www.crealab.info> References: <20080331204022.ffyr4ik8u8wckk88@www.crealab.info> Message-ID: *We apologize for any cross-postings* AREA 10 Project Space, Peckham Presents: () RE | BOOT; The launch event of Area10's new media media platform: Live Event and Opening: 12th April 7pm - Late £5 Come to Area10 for an evening program of film screenings, live performances, interactions, vjing, sound art, experimental and electronic noise music. Join us between 11am - 5pm Friday 11th & Saturday 12th April Activities include workshops, lectures presentations being held alongside an exhibition of digital and interactive arts over two days. Participating Artist, Musicians and Hackers: Project Serendipity (UK) Rob Davis (UK) Andy Wheddon & Fraser Geesin (UK) Genetic Moo Project (Peckham) Radek Rudnicki (UK) Erik Groen & Piebe de Vries (Holland) CathSign (France) Peckham Space (UK) Deptford.TV (UK) Chiara Passa (Italy) Phill Niblock (USA) Thibaud De Souza (UK) Sinsynplus (Germany) Günther Albrecht (Germany) Sunshine Frere (UK) Jenny Pickett (UK) Anila Ladwa (UK) Apo33 (France) Martin John Callanan (UK) Jean-Phillippe Roux (France) Lawrence Upton (UK) Mattin (Basque Country) ManamiN N(Japan) Nanofamas (Corsica) Goto10 & OpenLab (UK) Constant (Belgium) Yvan Etienne & Brice Jeannin (France) Medialab Madrid (Spain), Sonic (France) Tim Goldie (UK)...and many more!! For more information on () RE | BOOT and see attached press release or visit http://www.area10medialab.co.uk We look forward to seeing you on the 11th and 12th April regards Jenny, Julien and Anila Area 10 Project Space Peckham Eagle Wharf Peckham Square London SE15 5JT (White building behind Peckham Library) Bus: 12, 36, 37, 63, 78, 436, 345, 177, 312, 343 owTrain: Peckham Rye or Queens Road Station http://www.area10 has been introduced to facilitate the development of research and art practices using open source new technologies in the media arts. The medialab will focus on engaging cross-disciplinary collaborations between various arts and science based practices, encouraging open and critical discussion in addition to sharing knowledge and skills transfer. () RE | BOOT; is part of the Node London Spring '08 season - www.nodel.org and is supported by APO33 - www.apo33.org _______________________________________________ news &amp; informations list for Area10 Medialab a10medialab at crealab.info http://crealab.info/mailman/listinfo/a10medialab -- Chiara Passa chiarapassa at gmail.com http://www.chiarapassa.it http://www.ideasonair.net http://twitter.com/jogador Skype: ideasonair From vikash.sen at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 00:12:44 2008 From: vikash.sen at gmail.com (Bikash Ballabh Singh) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 00:12:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?PM=92s_media_adviser_Baru_resigned?= Message-ID: <25c340bd0804011142t2414ec6aw75677cf41f81090@mail.gmail.com> SANJAY BARU, the media adviser to the Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh has put in his papers, according to a buzz. He is slated to take up a teaching assignment in a Singapore University. According to highly placed sources, Baru exit, after August this year has fuelled speculation of election anytime after that. Sources close to the PMO said that the former editor of Financial Express, who was responsible for Dr Singh's public image, would teach economics in his next assignment. A doctorate from Jawaharlal Nehru University (JNU), Baru, is a respected journalist. It is said that he was close to Dr Singh when he was a Finance minister during early Nineties. He was also a member of the National Security Advisory Board, other than being associated with leading newspapers. A pattern is palpable. Earlier, just before the elections, Shakti Sinha, during Atal Bihari Vajpayee's tenure as Prime Minister had jumped ship as well. He was the PM's private secretary. A bureaucrat of the Union Territory cadre, he had taken up an assignment with the International Monetary Fund (IMF). PMO watchers opined that those near the power center are sure indicators of which way the wind is blowing. Just as Sinha hung his boots just before the Vajpayee government collapsed, is Baru too doing the same? If Baru leaves after August, is election far away, asked a highly placed source, with a smile and glint in his eyes. Source: http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=131597 From markcmarino at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 11:56:47 2008 From: markcmarino at gmail.com (Mark Marino) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 22:26:47 -0800 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] April 1: Wiki Satire Message-ID: <287213f30803312326v7dad6a68na2ac0a0d02d62318@mail.gmail.com> Announcing the April 1 issue of Bunk Magazine and soliciting writers to contribute satirical posting to a fictional wiki newspaper. The premise: The Los Angeles Times, to save its flagging enterprise, has relaunched itself in an entirely wiki format as The Los Wikiless Timespedia. http://www.bunkmag.com/mediawiki/ The piece plays with the mode of wikis and is a consideration of how old media producers get new media wrong. We're specifically looking for media-specific parodies, poking fun at wiki features and wiki culture: *Revert Wars *Histories *Talk Pages *Interwiki links *Stubs You can already see examples of contested articles, articles accidentally pasted in help pages, odd comments in the update histories. Of course there is also plenty of room for wiki parodies of newspaper content. The issue already includes: Want Ads, Comics, DIY Obituaries, Kids soccer reports, and more. The feature is currently up but goes live as the home page April 1, and it will remain the Bunk front page for at least 6 months. Afterwards it will enter the hallowed Bunk archives. Please join us in some cyber-satire. This is online humor that everyone can edit. Participation guidelines below. This marks the 10th anniversary of Bunk Magazine! Best, Mark Marino Editor Bunk Magazine and Writing Program University of Southern California http://WriterResponseTheory.org http://CriticalCodeStudies.com How to Play 1. Create and Account (feel free to use ridiculous pseudonym) 2. Type the name of a new article in the box on the front page 3. Press the Button 4. Write the article 5. Choose the newspaper category for the article. Or just edit an existing article. Once you are done, give yourself credit by adding to the "contributors" list on the masthead on the front page. If you write an article for a category that does not exist, let us know, or create the category page if you know how to do that. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 11:46:40 2008 From: santhosh.kanipayur at gmail.com (Santhosh Kumar) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 11:46:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Documentary films Message-ID: <19d498870803312316s6ccfe903x1a78966851e7842@mail.gmail.com> *Dear friends,* * * *SPECIAL PACKAGE OF FILMS FROM Other Media Communications.* * * *Greetings from Other Media Communications, Bangalore!* Other Media Communications is an institution set up to cater to the communication needs of social movements and civil society groups in India. We work in print, audio-video and new media areas. We have produced more than half a dozen documentaries on social issues in India.** * * *As part of our endeavour to make socially meaningful films more accessible to individuals, organisations and educational institutions, we* are *pleased to present to you a very special package. Not only does the package include five of our highly acclaimed documentaries from the recent past, but more importantly, it comes to you at subsidised prices.* * * *The package comprises the following documentaries:* * * *Hey Ram!! Genocide in the Land of Gandhi* *Hey Ram!! was the first film to be completed on the Gujarat Genocide, February 2002 in the aftermath of Godhra and was released even as the violence was raging in Gujarat.* * * *Resilient Rhythms** * This film documents the various atrocities that are committed on people simply because of their caste and shows how Dalits are fighting back. ** *Naga Story: The Other Side of Silence* *The film provides an introduction to the history of the Naga struggle, and documents the human rights abuses suffered by the Naga people in more than 50 years of existence as part of Independent India. * * * *Naka Naka Dupont, Naka (No to Dupont) *** *This film is the story of the Goan peoples' triumph over the multinational company 'Dupont' and a sterling model for similar struggles.* * * *BHOPAL – The Survivor's Story* *'Bhopal – The Survivors Story' explores the grim reality of lakhs of survivors and their children, caught between Dow-Carbide's denial of liability and the Government's reluctance to pursue Dow-Carbide, as they continue to face the unfolding hardships of the nearness of death and living poisoned everyday. * * * *For more details visit, www.othermediacommunications.com* * * *The documentaries are available in both VCD and DVD formats, and you also get copy of 'Burma: A Multi Media Presentation' (VCD) in the package. The DVD package is priced Rs.3500/- and Rs.2000/- and VCD package Rs.2000/- and Rs.1000/- respectively for Institutions and Individuals within India. Prices are different outside the country.* * * *Please place your order either by a letter to the address below or by e-mail to santhosh at othermediacommunications.com. We will require three weeks for the delivery of these films, after your confirmation of order and payment. * * * *Seeking your co-operation in reaching out to a wider audience.* * * *With warm regards,* * * * * *E. Deenadayalan* *Other Media Communications Pvt. Ltd.* *139/9, Domlur Layout* *Opp. Trinity Golf Links Apartments* *Bangalore – 560 071, India * *Tel: 91 80 41151587* *www.othermediacommunications.com* -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From turbulence at turbulence.org Tue Apr 1 23:44:04 2008 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 14:14:04 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Turbulence Commission: "No Time Machine" by Daniel C. Howe and Aya Karpinska Message-ID: <008401c89424$3e4ff4a0$baefdde0$@org> Turbulence Commission: "No Time Machine" by Daniel C. Howe and Aya Karpinska http://turbulence.org/works/notime Needs a Java-Enabled Browser Quiet time, dead time, free time -- call it what you will, there seems to be less and less of it. What do people give up in the race to maximize every second of their waking life? What kinds of activities are replaced by the panicked drive for efficiency? "No Time Machine" explores these questions by mining the Internet for mentions of the phrase "I don't have time for" and variations such as "You can't find the time for" and "We don't make time for." Based on a set of procedures they've set up, a program analyzes the search results and reconstructs them into a poetic conversation. Interwoven with this "found poetry" generated by the program are sentences that they re-contextualized themselves; a human-computer collaboration that expands the field of creative writing to include networked and programmable media. "No Time Machine" is a 2007 commission of New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc., (aka Ether-Ore) for its Turbulence web site. It was made possible with funding from the Jerome Foundation. BIOGRAPHIES Daniel C. Howe is a digital artist and researcher at NYU's Media Research Lab. His interests include generative systems for artistic practice (specifically for digital literary production) and the social/political aspects of technology design. In addition to a background in music, he has graduate degrees in both computer science and creative writing, and has exhibited and performed his work internationally since 1997. He is currently a visiting professor at Brown University. Aya Karpinska is an interaction designer and artist working in digital media. She creates interactive experiences through installation art, text, sound, and game design (but not all at the same time). Aya is currently an Electronic Writing Fellow at Brown University, developing children's stories for mobile devices. She splits her time between Providence and New York City. Daniel and Aya collaborated previously on a spatial poetry project, "open.ended." For more Turbulence Commissions, please visit http://turbulence.org Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 . Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From rana at ranadasgupta.com Wed Apr 2 08:39:45 2008 From: rana at ranadasgupta.com (Rana Dasgupta) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 08:39:45 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 1968 and its legacies: major show in London Message-ID: <47F2F8F9.1090005@ranadasgupta.com> All Power to the Imagination! 1968 and Its Legacies This curation marks the creative resistance of a remarkable year, while placing its lessons in the context of our own times. From April to June and across London, this major season explores 1968 culture, politics and thought and their legacy manifestations in cinema, visual art, literature, music and activism. http://www.1968.org.uk/ From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 09:52:47 2008 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:52:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] China Human Rights In-Reply-To: <1950ca6c0804010037q5950becfi6855c3f541890a18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: This is an old article but I found it useful especially in these times when some of our worthy leaders can¹t tell their imperialisms from their totalitarianisms. Simon Leys is the pen name of sinologist and author Pierre Ryckmans. Born in 1935 he lived in China and wrote extensively on its art, culture and history. He critiqued Mao and the cultural revolution in ŒChinese Shadows,¹ published in 1978. ------------------------------ THE BURNING FOREST Simon Leys "HUMAN RIGHTS IN CHINA" (This essay was originally published in 1978.) How much of this is known in the free countries of the West? The information is to be found in the daily papers. We are informed about everything. We know nothing. -SAUL BELLOW, To Jerusalem and Back On the question of human rights in China, an odd coalition has formed among "Old China hands" (left over from the colonial-imperialist era, starry-eyed Maoist adolescents, bright, ambitious technocrats, timid sinologists ever wary of being denied their visas for China, and even some overseas Chinese who like to partake from afar in the People's Republic's prestige without having to share any of their compatriots' sacri-fices or sufferings). The basic position of this strange lobby can be summarized in two propositions: (1) Whether or not there is a human-rights problem in China remains uncertain-"we simply do not know"; and (2) even if such a problem should exist, it is none of our concern. I shall attempt here to reply to the increasingly vocal and influential proponents of this theory; more simply, I shall try to remind my readers of certain commonplace and commonsense evidence that this line of thought seeks to conjure away. I do not apologize for being utterly banal; there are circumstances in which banality becomes the last refuge of decency and sanity. The starting point of any reflection on contemporary China- - especially with regard to the human-rights question - should be the obvious yet unpopular observation that the Peking regime is a totalitarian system. My contention is that totalitarianism has a quite specific meaning and that, inasmuch as it is totalitarian, Maoism presents features that are foreign to Chinese political traditions (however despotic some of these traditions might have been), while it appears remarkably similar to otherwise foreign models, such as Stalinism and Nazism. Yet "totalitarianism" has become a taboo concept among fashionable political scientists, and especially among contemporary China scholars; they generally endeavor to describe and analyze the system of the People's Republic without ever using the world "totalitarian"-no mean feat. It is akin to describing the North Pole without ever using the word "ice," or the Sahara without using the word sand. A convenient and generally acceptable definition of totalitarianism is provided by Leszek Kolakowski in his essay "Marxist Roots of Stalinism": I take the word "totalitarian" in a commonly used sense, meaning a political system where all social ties have been entirely replaced by state-imposed organization and where, consequently, all groups and all individuals are supposed to act only for goals which both are the goals of the state and were defined as such by the state. In other words, an ideal totalitarian system would consist in the utter destruction of civil society, whereas the state and its organizational instruments are the only forms of social life; all kinds of human activity-economical, intellectual, political, cultural-are allowed and ordered (the distinction between what is allowed and what is ordered tending to disappear) only to the extent of being at the service of state goals (again, as defined by the state). Every individual (including the rulers themselves) is considered the property of the state. Kolakowski adds that this ideal conception has never been fully realized, and that perhaps an absolutely perfect totalitarian system would not be feasible; however, he sees Soviet and Chinese societies as very close to the ideal, and so was Nazi Germany: "There are forms of life which stubbornly resist the impact of the system, familial, emotional and sexual relationships among them; they were subjected strongly to all sorts of state pressure, but apparently never with full success (at least in the Soviet state; perhaps more was achieved in China)." Lack of space prevents me from invoking a sufficient number of examples to show how well the above definition fits the Maoist reality. I shall provide only one illustration, selected from among hundreds and thousands, because this particular illustration is both typical and fully documented by one unimpeachable witness - I mean the noted writer Chen Jo-hsi, who is now free to express herself among us, and who reported it in a public lecture on the Chinese legal system, which she gave in 1978 at the University of Maryland. In 1971, when Chen was living in Nanking, she was forced with thousands of other people to attend and par-ticipate in a public accusation meeting. The accused person's crime was the defacing of a portrait of Mao Zedong; the accused had been denounced by his own daughter, a twelve-year-old child. On the basis of the child's testimony, he was convicted and sentenced to death; as was usually the case in these mass--accusation meetings, there was no right of appeal, and the sentence was carried out immediately, by firing squad. The child was officially extolled as a hero; she disclaimed any relationship with the dead man and proclaimed publicly her resolution to become from then on "with her whole heart and her whole will, the good daughter of the Party." This episode was neither exceptional nor accidental; it was a deliberate, well-planned occurrence, carefully staged in front of a large audience, in one of China's in major cities. Similar "happenings" recur periodically and accompany most "mass campaigns." They have a pedagogic purpose in that they fit into a coherent policy pattern and exemplify the state's attempt to become the unique, all-encompassing organizer of all social and human relations. It should be remarked that whatever feeling of scandal a Westerner may experience when confronted with such an incident, it is still nothing compared with the revulsion, horror, and fear that it provokes among the Chinese themselves. The episode not only runs against human decency in general, but more specifically it runs against Chinese culture - a culture which, for more than 2,500 years, extolled filial piety as a cardinal virtue. A second useful definition of totalitarianism is George Orwell's (in his postface to Homage to Catalonia). According to his description, the totalitarian system is one in which there is no such thing as "objective truth" or "objective science." There is only, for instance, "German science" as opposed to "Jewish science," or "proletarian truth" as opposed to "bourgeois lies": "The implied objective of this line of thought is a nightmare world in which the Leader, or some ruling clique, controls not only the future, but the past. If the Leader says of such and such an event 'It never happened' - well, it never happened. If he says that two and two are five, well, two and two are five. This prospect frightens me much more than bombs." How does this definition square with Peking reality? Let us glance at Maoist theory. In one of its key documents (the so-called May 16 Circular) we read precisely: The slogan "all men are equal before the truth" is a bourgeois slogan that absolutely denies the fact that truth has class-character. The class enemy uses this slogan to protect the bourgeoisie, to oppose himself to the proletariat, to Marxism-Leninism and Mao Zedong Thought. In the struggle between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie, between Marxist truth and the lies of the bourgeois class and of all oppressive classes, if the east wind does not prevail over the west wind, the west wind will prevail over the east wind, and therefore no equality can exist between them. In their latest book, Le Bonheur des pierres (Paris: Le Seuil, 1978), C. and J. Broyelle produce an interesting quotation from Mein Kampf and show that by merely substituting in Hitler's text the words "bourgeois" and "antihumanism" for the words "Jews" and "antisemitism" one obtains orthodox, standard "Mao Zedong Thought." "Two and two are five." We find countless variants of this type of proposition in the Chinese press: the downfall of the "Cultural Revolution" leaders and the rehabilitation of the "Cultural Revolution's" opponents are currently described as the supreme victory of the "Cultural Revolution"; Deng Xiaoping was in turn a criminal, then a hero, then again a criminal, and then again a hero; Lin Biao was a traitor; Madame Mao was a Kuomintang agent, and so on. Of course, none of this is new; we heard it all more than forty years ago at the Moscow trials, and we also remember how, in Stalinist parlance, Trotsky used to be Hitler's agent. Victor Serge, who experienced it all firsthand, analyzed it well: the very enormity of the lie is precisely designed to numb, paralyze, and crush all rationality and critical functioning of the mind. "The leader controls the past." In both Chinese Shadows and Broken Images I have described the constant rewriting of history that takes place in China (as it does in the Soviet Union) and in particular, the predicament of the wretched curators of the History Museums, who in recent years have been successively confronted with, for instance, the disgrace, rehabilitation, re-disgrace, and re-rehabilitation of Deng Xiaoping. These political turnabouts can be quite bewildering for the lower cadres, whose instructions do not always keep up with the latest shakeup of the ruling clique. As one hapless guide put it to a foreign visitor who was pressing him with tricky questions: "Excuse me, sir, but at this stage it is difficult to answer; the leadership has not yet had the time to decide what history was." There is nothing furtive or clandestine about history rewriting; it is done in broad daylight, and sometimes, at its most humble level, the public itself is invited to collaborate. Thus, at one stage of Deng's political vicissitudes, journals that had already been printed before his latest successful somersault were sent to subscribers together with little slips of paper expatiating on his virtues, slips that were to be pasted by the readers themselves over various special passages that described him as a scoundrel. The most spectacular example of this practice will be remembered by many. The day after Mao's funeral, all Chinese newspapers carried photos of the top leadership standing in a long line in front of the crowd at the memorial ceremony. When it was the monthlies' turn to carry the same photos, the "Gang of Four" had meanwhile been purged. The photos, already known to the Chinese public, were issued again, but this time the disgraced leaders had all disappeared from the pictures, leaving awkward gaps, like missing front teeth in an open mouth - the general effect being underlined rather than alleviated by the censor's heavy handling of the airbrush, and by his clumsy retouching of the background. To crown the cynicism of such blatant manipulation, a little later, New China News Agency issued a report denouncing Madame Mao for the way in which, in her time, she had allegedly falsified various official photographs for political purposes! The incident of the missing figures in the official photographs, though widely circulated, did not provoke any comments in the West (with the exception of C. and J. Broyelle's remarkable book, from which I am borrowing freely here). After all, aren't Chinese always supposed to behave in inscrutable and strange ways? What was not realized was the fact that however odd the incident may have appeared in our eves, the Chinese themselves felt it was even more grotesque and humiliating. The explanation for this bizarre episode did not lie in the Chinese mentality, but in totalitarian psychology. The most masterly analysis of totalitarian psychology is cer-tainly the one provided by Bruno Bettelheim in his book The Informed Heart , which was rightly hailed as "a handbook for survival in our age." The great psychiatrist observed the phenomenon firsthand in Buchenwald, where he was interned by the Nazis. The concentration camp is not marginal to the totalitarian world; on the contrary, it is its purest and most perfect projection, since there the various factors of resistance to the system - -the familial, emotional, and sexual relationships mentioned by Kolakowski - have all been removed, leaving the subject totally exposed to the totalitarian design. Bettelheim noted that prisoners were subjected to a "ban on daring to notice anything. But to look and observe for oneself what went on in the camp - while absolutely necessary for survival - was even more dangerous than being noticed. Often this passive compliance - not to see or not to know - was not enough; in order to survive one had to actively pretend not to observe, not to know what the SS required one not to know." Bettelheim gives various examples of SS behavior that presented this apparent contradiction - "you have not seen what you have seen, because we decided so" (which could apply precisely to the blatantly falsified photo of the Chinese leaders) - and he adds this psychological commentary: To know only what those in authority allow one to know is, more or less, all the infant can do. To be able to make one's own observations and to draw pertinent conclusions from them is where independent existence begins. To forbid oneself to make observations, and take only the observations of others in their stead, is relegating to nonuse one's own powers of reasoning, and the even more basic power of perception. Not observing where it counts most, not knowing where one wants so much to know, all this is most destructive to the functioning of one's personality. . . . But if one gives up observing, reacting, and taking action, one gives up living one's own life. And this is exactly what the SS wanted to happen. Bettelheim describes striking instances of this personality disintegration - which again are of particular relevance for the Chinese situation. Western apologists for the Peking regime have argued that since the Chinese themselves, and particularly those who recently left China, did not show willingness to express dissent or criticism (a questionable assertion-I shall come back to this point later), we had better not try to speak for them and should simply infer from their silence that there is probably nothing to be said. According to Bettelheim, the camp inmates came progressively to see the world through SS eyes; they even es-poused SS values: At one time, for instance, American and English newspapers were full of stories about cruelties committed in the camps. In discussing this event old prisoners insisted that foreign newspapers had no business bothering with internal German institutions and expressed their hatred of the journalists who tried to help them. When in 1938 I asked more than one hundred old political prisoners if they thought the story of the camp should be reported in foreign newspapers, many hesitated to agree that it was desirable. When asked if they would join a foreign power in a war to defeat National Socialism, only two made the unqualified statement that everyone escaping Germany ought to fight the Nazis to the best of his ability. Jean Pasqualini -whose book Prisoner of Mao is the most fundamental document on the Maoist "Gulag" and, as such, is most studiously ignored by the lobby that maintains that there is no human-rights problem in the People's Republic - notes a similar phenomenon. He confesses that after a few years in the labor camps, he came. if not exactly to love the system that was methodically destroying his personality, at least to feel gratitude for the patience and care with which the authorities were trying to reeducate worthless vermin like himself. Along the same lines, Orwell showed premonitory genius in the last sentence of Nineteen Eighty-four: when Winston Smith realizes that he loves Big Brother, that he has loved Big Brother all along. . . . Seemingly, I have wandered away from my topic: instead of dealing with human rights, I have talked about the nature of totalitarianism, the falsification of the past, and the alteration of reality. In fact, all these observations are of direct relevance to our topic. We can summarize them by saying that totalitarianism is the apotheosis of subjectivism. In Nineteen Eighty-four, the starting point of Winston Smith's revolt lies in this sudden awareness: "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." (Once more, see the falsified photos of the Chinese leadership on Tian'anmen!) "His heart sank as he thought of the enormous power arrayed against him. . . . And yet he was in the right! The obvious, the silly, and the true had got to be defended. Truisms are true, hold on to that! The solid world exists, its laws do not change. Stones are hard, water is wet, objects unsupported fall toward the earth's center. . . . If that is granted, all else follows." Objectivism - the belief that there is an objective truth whose existence is independent of arbitrary dogma and ideology - is thus the cornerstone of intellectual freedom and human dignity, and as such, it is the main stumbling block for totalitarianism. Objectivism, as opposed to totalitarianism, can take essen-tially two forms: legality or morality. For historicocultural reasons, Western civilization seems to have put more emphasis on legality, while Chinese civilization was more inclined toward morality. Yet to oppose the two concepts, as some admirers of Maoism have attempted to do, betrays a complete misreading of both notions. In traditional China, "morality" (which meant essentially Confucianism) was the main bulwark against incipi-ent totalitarianism. This question was best expounded by the Chinese historian Yu Ying-shih in a masterful essay ("Anti-intellectualism in Chinese Traditional Politics," Ming Pao Monthly, February and March 1976) which could be schematically summarized as follows: Confucianism described the world in terms of a dualism; on the one hand there is the concrete, changing realm of actual politics, on the other hand there is the realm of abstract, permanent principles. The duty of the scholar--politician is to serve the ruler insofar as the ruler's behavior and policies harmonize with the unchanging moral principles, which provide a stable reference by which to judge them. In case of a clash between the two realms, the Confucian scholar must, in the strong and unambiguous words of Xun Zi, "follow the principles and disobey the Prince." For this reason Maoist legality and Maoist morality are equally inconceivable; both are self-contradictions (the same applies to Stalinist or Nazi legality or morality; the terms are mutually exclusive). Mao himself readily and cynically acknowledged this situation; for his subordinates, however (as for Stalin's), in practice this created an increasingly dangerous and frightening predicament to the point where a number of old and prestigious Communist leaders could be bullied, persecuted and even tortured to death during the "Cultural Revolution." Those who survived the turmoil, having come so close to being devoured by the very beast they themselves had raised, suddenly discovered the urgent need to establish some sort of legality. Their appeals, which filled the pages of the People's Daily two years after Mao's death, were pathetic, because they ran against the nature of the regime. Establishment of legality would mean the end of the system; with legal boundaries, Party authority would cease to be infallible and absolute, and a genuine rule of law would mark the end of its ideological rule. From a Communist point of view, such a situation would obviously be inconceivable. It is in this context of quintessential - indeed, institutional -- illegality that the human-rights question must be considered. In other words, for such a system, the very concept of human rights is necessarily meaningless. Thus, in this respect, the historical record of the regime could be characterized as a continuous and ruthless war waged by the Communist government against the Chinese people. Let us briefly enumerate here a few episodes selected at random, merely as illustrations. - Liquidation of counterrevolutionaries, land reform, "Three Antis" and "Five Antis" campaigns (1949-52). Five million executions (conservative estimate, advanced by one of the most cautious and respected specialists of contemporary Chinese his-tory, Jacques Guillermaz, in Le Parti Communiste chinois au pouvoir [Paris: Payot, 1972], 33, n. 1). - "Anti-rightist campaign" (1957). According to the figures issued by the Minister for Public Security, during the period from June to October alone, "100,000 counterrevolutionaries and bad elements were unmasked and dealt with"; 1,700,000 subjected to police investigation; several million sent to the countryside for "reeducation." - "Cultural Revolution" (1966-69). No total figures are available as yet. By Peking's own admission, the losses were heavy. In the last interview he granted to Edgar Snow, Mao Zedong said that foreign journalists, even in their most sensational reporting, had grossly underestimated the actual amount of violence and bloodshed. A full and methodical count still remains to be established from the various figures that are already available at the local level (90,000 victims in Sichuan province alone, 40,000 in Guangdong). The trial of the "Gang of Four" was an opportunity for further official disclosures on the enormous scope of these atrocities. - The anti-Lin Biao and anti-Confucius campaigns (1973-75), and then the campaign for the denunciation of the "Gang of Four" (1976-78), were both accompanied by waves of arrests and executions. Finally, in 1979, the Democracy Walls were outlawed and the Democracy movement was suppressed. Arbitrary arrests and heavy sentences based on trumped-up charges eliminated vast numbers of courageous and idealistic young people and finally destroyed all hopes for genuine political reform within the Chinese Communist system. Political and intellectual dissent in Communist China has produced an endless list of martyrs. The first victims fell well before the establishment of the People's Republic, as early as the Yan'an period. Later on, the repressions that successively followed the "Hundred Flowers" and the "Cultural Revolution" decimated the intellectual and political elite of the entire country. Besides these illustrious victims, however, we should not forget the immense crowd of humble, anonymous people who were subjected to mass arrests - as happened in the aftermath of the huge anti-Maoist demonstration in Tian'anmen Square (April 5, 1976), or who are suffering individual persecution all over China. They are imprisoned, condemned to hard labor, or even executed merely for having expressed unorthodox opinions; no one takes notice of them, they never make the headlines in our newspapers. It is only by chance encounter that sometimes, here and there, a more than usually attentive visitor comes across their names and records their fate, from ordinary public notices posted in the streets. Moreover, besides these political dissen-ters, countless religious believers are also branded as criminals and sent to labor camps simply because they choose to remain loyal to their church and to their faith. The Chinese "Gulag" is a gigantic topic that has been well described by firsthand witnesses - Jean Pasqualini (Bao Ruo-wang) and Rudolf Chelminski, Prisoner of Mao (New York: Cow-ard McCann & Geoghegan, 1973), and Lai Ying, The Thirty-sixth Way (New York: Doubleday, 1969). The reading of these accounts is a basic duty for everyone who professes the slightest concern for China. I have commented elsewhere (in Broken Images) on the central relevance of the labor camps for any meaningful analysis of the nature of the Maoist regime. Suffice it to say here that whoever wishes to dispose of the human-rights issue in China without first tackling this particular subject is either irresponsible or a fraud. Zhou Enlai observed quite accurately (in 1959) that "the present of the Soviet Union is the future of China." There will be, in the future, Chinese Solzhenitsyns to provide us with the fully documented picture of what Maoism in action actually meant for millions of individuals. Yet it should be remarked that the most amazing thing about Solzhenitsyn's impact is that the West reacted to it as if it were news. Actually, Solzhenitsyn's unique contribution lies in the volume and precision of his catalogue of atrocities - but basically he revealed nothing new. On the essential points, information about Soviet reality has been available for more than forty years, through the firsthand testimonies of un-impeachable witnesses such as Boris Souvarine, Victor Serge, Anton Ciliga, and others. Practically no one heard of it at the time because no one wanted to hear; it was inconvenient and inopportune. In the foreword to the 1977 edition of his classic essay on Stalin, originally published in 1935, Souvarine recalls the incredible difficulties he had in finding a publisher for it in the West. Everywhere the intellectual elite endeavoured to suppress the book: "It is going to needlessly harm our relations with Moscow." Only Malraux, adventurer and phony hero of the leftist intelligentsia, had the guts and cynicism to state his position clearly in a private conversation: "Souvarine, I believe that you and your friends are right. However, at this stage, do not count on me to support you. I shall be on your side only when you will be on top (Je serai avec vous quand vous serez les plus forts)!" How many times have we heard variants of that same phrase! On the subject of China, how many colleagues came to express private support and sympathy (these were still the bravest!), apologizing profusely for not being able to say the same things in public: "You must understand my position . . . my professional commitments . . . I must keep my channels of communication open with the Chinese Embassy. I am due to go on a mission to Peking...." Finally, I would like to examine successively the various methods that have been adopted in the West to dodge the issue of human rights in China. The first line of escape is the one I have just mentioned. It is to say, "We do not know for sure, we do not have sufficient information on the subject." Actually, there are enough documents, books, and witnesses to occupy entire teams of researchers for years to come. Of course, much more material is bound to surface; however, when the Chinese Solzhenitsyns begin methodically to expose the Maoist era in all its details, anyone who exclaims in horrified shock, "My God! had we only known!" will be a hypocrite and a liar. We already know the main outlines; basically there can be no new revelations, only the filling in of more details. The essential information has been available practically since the establishment of the regime, and everyone even slightly acquainted with Chinese affairs is aware of it. It is true that, compared with the Soviet Union, there may be a relative scarcity of documentation; this does not mean (as some people have had the temerity to assert) that the situation is relatively better in China - it means exactly the opposite. Under Stalin, what Soviet dissenter ever succeeded in meeting foreign visitors or in smuggling manuscripts to the West? The Stalin analogy is acutely relevant here, since China has always kept, and still keeps, proclaiming its unwavering fidelity to the mem-ory of Stalin and to the principles of Stalinism. The main accusation that Peking directs against Moscow is precisely that it has partly betrayed this heritage. The second line of escape (and possibly the most sickening one) is to say sadly, "Yes indeed, we know; there have been gross irregularities-even what you might call atrocities-committed in the past. But this is a thing of the past: it was all due to the evil influence of the 'Gang of Four.'" This new tune is now being dutifully sung by the entire choir of the fellow-travelers, the traveling salesmen of Maoism, the sycophants, and the propaganda commissars-the very people who, a few years ago, used to tell us how everything was well and wonderful in China under the enlightened rule of the same "Gang of Four." Pretending shock and indignation, they now come and tell us horrible stories-as if we did not know it all, as if they had not known it all-the very stories we told years ago, but at that time they used to label them "anti-China slander" and "CIA lies." The downfall of the "Gang of Four," however momentous, was, after all, a mere episode in the power struggle within the system - it did not bring a significant modification of the system. It does not have any bearing upon the human-rights issue. Violations of human rights, political and intellectual repression, mass arrests, summary executions, persecutions of dissenters, and so on, were perpetrated for nearly twenty years before the "Gang of Four's" accession to power, and now they continue after the "Gang's" disgrace. Not only have these methods and policies not changed, but they are being carried out by the same personnel, people who were not affected by the ups and downs of the ruling clique. The terms in which criticism of the "Gang" is being expressed, and the methods by which the "Gang" is being denounced, represent a direct continuation of the language and methods of the "Gang" itself. At no stage was any politically meaningful criticism and analysis allowed to develop; the basic questions (From where did the "Gang" derive its power? What kind of regime is it that provides opportunities for such charac-ters to reach supreme power? How should the system be reformed to prevent similar occurrences in the future?) cannot be raised; whenever clearsighted and courageous people dare to address these issues (Wang Xizhe, Wei Jingsheng), they are immediately gagged and disappear into the Chinese "Gulag." Since Mao's death, the pathetic reformist efforts of the leaders have actually demonstrated that Maoism is consubstantial with the regime. What happened to the Maoists in China reminds us of the fate of the cannibals in a certain tropical republic, as described by Alexandre Vialatte: "There are no more cannibals in that country since the local authorities ate the last ones." The third line of escape: "We admit there may be gross infringements of human rights in China. But the first of all human rights is to survive, to be free from hunger. The infringement of human rights in China is dictated by harsh national necessity." What causal relationship is there between infringement of human rights and the ability to feed people? The relative and modest ability of the People's Republic to feed its people represents the bare minimum achievement that one could expect from any Chinese government that continuously enjoyed for a quarter of a century similar conditions of peace, unity, and freedom from civil war, from colonialist exploitation, and from external aggression. These privileged conditions - for which the Communist government can claim only limited credit - had been denied to China for more than a hundred years, and this factor alone should invalidate any attempt to compare the achievements of the present government with those of preceding ones. Moreover, to what extent is the People's Republic truly able now to feed its population? Deng Xiaoping bluntly acknowledged in a speech on March 18, 1978, the backwardness and basic failure of the People's Repu-blic's economy. After nearly thirty years of Communist rule, "several hundred million people are still mobilized full time in the exclusive task of producing food. . . . We still have not really solved the grain problem. . . our industry is lagging behind by ten or twenty years. . . ." In proportion to population, food production in the People's Republic has not yet overtaken the record of the best Kuomintang years of more than forty years ago! The economic takeoff has not yet been achieved: China is still in a marginal situation, not yet secure from potential starvation, always vulnerable to the menace of successive bad harvests or other natural catastrophes. Further, some of the major catastrophes that have hit the People's Republic and crippled its development were entirely Mao-made and occurred only because the totalitarian nature of the regime prevented rational debate and forbade informed criticism and realistic assessment of the objective conditions. Suffice it to mention two well-known examples. The "Great Leap Forward," which Mao's private fancy imposed upon the country, resulted in widespread famine (an authoritative expert, L. Ladany, ventured the figure of fifty million dead from starvation during the years 1959-62). Falsified production statistics were issued by the local authorities to protect the myth of the Supreme Leader's infallibility; the hiding of the extent of the disaster prevented the early tackling of the problem and made the tragedy even worse. In the early fifties, one of China's most distinguished economists and demographers, Professor Ma Yinchu, expressed the common-sense warning that it would be necessary to control population growth, otherwise the demographic explosion would cancel the production increase. Mao, however, held to the crude and primitive peasant belief that "the more Chinese, the better." Ma was purged, all debate on this crucial issue was frozen for years, and precious time was wasted before Mao reversed his earlier conclusion (before obtaining his rehabilitation, Ma himself had to wait twenty years for Mao to die). Such examples could easily be multiplied. In a totalitarian system, whenever common sense clashes with dogma, common sense always loses - at tremendous cost to national development and the people's livelihood. The harm caused by arbitrary decisions enforced without the moderating counterweight of debate and criticism almost certainly exceeds whatever advantage could be gained from the monolithic discipline achieved by the system. Totalitarianism, far from being a drastic remedy that could be justified in a national emergency, appears on the contrary to be an extravagant luxury that no poor country can afford with impunity. The fourth line of escape is articulated in several variations on a basic theme: "China is different." The first variation on this theme: "Human rights are a Western concept, and thus have no relevance in the Chinese context." The inherent logic of this line of thought, though seldom expressed with such frankness, amounts to saying: "Human rights are one of those luxuries that befit us wealthy and advanced Westerners; it is preposterous to imagine that mere natives of exotic countries could qualify for a similar privilege, or would even be interested in it." Or, more simply: "Human rights do not apply to the Chinese, because the Chinese are not really human. Since the very enunciation of this kind of position excuses one from taking the trouble to refute it, I shall merely add here one incidental remark: human rights are not a foreign notion in Chinese modern history. Nearly a century ago, the leading thinker and political reformer Kang Youwei (1858-1927) made it the cornerstone of his political philosophy. In practice, under the first Republic, a human-rights movement developed effectively as a protest against the "white terror" of the Kuomintang; the famous China League for Civil Rights was founded in 1932 and mobilized the intellectual elite of the time, with prestigious figures such as Cai Yuanpei, Song Qingling, and Lu Xun. It also had its martyrs, such as Yang Quan (assassinated in 1933). However, the history of human rights in China is, after all, an academic question. What is of burning relevance is the current situation. Foreigners who pretend that "the Chinese are not interested in human rights" are obviously blind and deaf. The Chinese were forcefully expressing this very demand on the De-mocracy Wall, and on this theme popular pressure became so great that even the official newspapers finally had to acknowledge its existence. Second variation: "We must respect China's right to be different." One could draw interesting logical extensions of that principle. Had Hitler refrained from invading neighboring countries and merely contented himself with slaughtering his own Jews at home, some might have said: "Slaughtering Jews is probably a German idiosyncrasy; we must refrain from judging it and respect Germany's right to be different. Third variation: "China has always been subjected to despotic regimes, so there is no particular reason for us to become indignant at this one." Such reasoning is faulty twice over: first, because Chinese traditional government was far less despotic than Maoism; and second, because, had it been equally as despotic as Maoism or even more so, this would still not provide a justification. The second point does not need to be argued (since when can past atrocities justify present ones?); let us briefly consider the first. The great ages of Chinese civilization, such as the Tang and the Northern Song, present a political sophistication and enlightenment that had no equivalent in the world until modern times. Other periods were markedly more despotic, and some (Qin, Ming) even tried to achieve a kind of totalitarianism. However, they were always severely hampered by technical obstacles (genuine totalitarianism had to wait for twentieth-century technology to become really feasible). Ming politics were ruthless and terrifying, but they were such only for the relatively small fraction of the population that was politically active, or in direct contact with government organs. In the mid-sixteenth century Chinese officialdom consisted of some ten to fifteen thousand civil servants for a total population of about one hundred and fifty million. This tiny group of cadres was exclusively concentrated in the cities, while most of the population was living in the villages. Distance and slow communications preserved the autonomy of most countryside communities. Basically, taxation represented the only administrative interference in the life of the peasants, and simply by paying their taxes, the people were actually buying their freedom from most other governmental interventions. The great majority of Chinese could spend an entire lifetime without ever having come into contact with one single representative of imperial authority. The last dynasty, which ruled China for nearly three centuries, the Qing government, however authoritarian, was far less lawless than the Maoist regime; it had a penal code that determined which officials were entitled to carry out arrests, which crimes entailed the death penalty, and so on, whereas Maoist China has been living for thirty years in a legal vacuum, which, as we have read in the official press, eventually enabled countless local tyrants to govern following their caprice, and establish their own private jails where they could randomly torture and execute their own personal enemies. Fourth variation: "Respect for the individual is a Western characteristic"; in China (I quote from an eminent American bureaucrat) there is "an utterly natural acceptance of the age-old Confucian tradition of subordinating individual liberty to collective obligation." In other words, the Chinese dissidents who are being jailed and executed merely for having expressed heterodox opinion, the millions who, having been branded once and for all as "class enemies" (the classification is hereditary!), are reduced, they and their descendants, to a condition of being social outcasts, or are herded into labor camps. These people either, as good traditional Chinese, imbued with "the age-old Confucian tradition of subordinating individual liberty to collective obligations," are supposed to be perfectly satisfied with their fate, or, if they are not (like the 100,000 demonstrators who dared to show their anger in Peking on April 5, 1976, and all those who, two years later, gathered around the "Democracy Wall"), thereby prove that they are un-Chinese, and thus presumably unworthy of our attention! In all these successive variations, "difference" has been the key concept. If Soviet dissidents have, on the whole, received far more sympathy in the West, is it because they are Caucasians - while the Chinese are "different"? When Maoist sympathizers use such arguments, they actually echo diehard racists of the colonial-imperialist era. At that time the "Chinese difference" was a leitmotiv among Western entrepreneurs, to justify their exploitation of the "natives": Chinese were different, even physiologically; they did not feel hunger, cold and pain as Westerners would; you could kick them, starve them, it did not matter much; only ignorant sentimentalists and innocent bleeding-hearts would worry on behalf of these swarming crowds of yellow coolies. Most of the rationalizations that are now being proposed for ignoring the human-rights issue in China are rooted in the same mentality. Of course, there are cultural differences - the statement is a tautology, since "difference" is the very essence of culture. But if from there one extrapolates differences that restrict the relevance of human rights to certain nations only, this would amount to a denial of the universal character of human nature; such an attitude in turn opens the door to a line of reasoning whose nightmarish yet logical development ends in the very barbarity that this century witnessed a few decades ago, during the Nazi era. The above essay, first published in 1978, was essentially based upon observation and experience of the Maoist era. To what extent can it still provide a valid reflection of today's situation? In the past, I have often expressed skepticism regarding the ability of the Communist system to modify its essential nature. I dearly wish that its political evolution may eventually prove me wrong. In this matter, however, the pessimism generally expressed by most Chinese citizens appears to have some justification: what can we expect from a regime that is now solemnly reaffirming that all its laws and institutions must remain subordinated to the supreme guidance of the "Thought of Mao Zedong"? From anoopkheri at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 17:12:58 2008 From: anoopkheri at gmail.com (anoop kumar) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 04:42:58 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Talk on Manual Scavenging on 6th April by INSIGHT STUDY CIRCLE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Friends, Jaibheem INSIGHT Study Circle invites you for a public meeting on the issue of *'Manual Scavenging'* *Guest Speakers:* - *1. **Mr.** Saptarshi Mandal - Law Student , National University for Juridical Sciences (NUJS), Kolkata * *2. **Mr. Raj Kumar - Young Activist working on the issue of Manual Scavenging in Haryana* *3. **Ms. Seema - **Young Activist working on the issue of Manual Scavenging in Haryana* *Venue: - Indian Social Institute (ISI),* *[10, Institutional Area, Lodi Road, New Delhi]* *Time: - 11 am to 1 pm* *Date: - 6th April 2008 (Sunday)* *Programme: - * The Government of India's 'Manual Scavengers and Construction of Dry Latrines (Prohibition) Act, 1993', had promised the eradication of a pernicious practice that only certain Dalit sub-castes were subject to and thereby the restoration of dignity to the individual as enshrined in the Preamble to the Constitution. It was enacted as a uniform law for the whole of India to abolish manual scavenging by declaring employment of manual scavengers for removal of human excreta an offense, and thereby ban the construction of dry latrines. However, due to lack of political will and social consciousness, lakhs of Dalits (12 lakh approx) are still destined to clean and carry the human excreta with their bare hands in almost every part of the country, especially in the urban and semi-urban areas. Dalits involved in manual scavenging have been one of the worst sufferers of social exclusion and economic exploitation. *Mr. Saptrishi Mandal will present a paper on 'Manual Scavenging and the Legal Discourse'* *Mr. Rajkumar and Ms. Seema will share their experiences about working on the issue of manual scavenging in Haryana. * *INSIGHT: YOUNG VOICES is an English bimonthly Dalit Youth Magazine. Since inception, it has been organizing meetings and public talks on the issues related with the Dalit community both inside the campuses and outside. * *One of the prime objectives of the INSIGHT group has been to create a platform for Dalit students and youth to share their views and to interact with scholars, academicians, activists and organizations that have been working on the issues related with the Dalit community*. *Towards this objective, INSIGHT Study Circle* *organizes meetings on any one particular issue on the First Sunday of every Month. Through this we are aspiring to bring Dalit students, youth, activists, professionals, scholars and researchers on one platform to interact with each other. * *We encourage young Dalit students/researchers/activists to share their work with us during the meetings of Study Circle.* For more information please contact our Study Circle Coordinators: - Dr Ajita Rao [ajita_nav at yahoo.com] Anoop Kumar [anoopkheri at gmail.com] -- Anoop 0-9313432410 -- Anoop 0-9313432410 -- Anoop 0-9313432410 From moinakb at yahoo.com Wed Apr 2 19:58:14 2008 From: moinakb at yahoo.com (moinak biswas) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 07:28:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Journal of the Moving Image Message-ID: <207772.24073.qm@web54307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Journal of the Moving Image, the annual publication of the Department of Film Studies, Jadavpur University, is now available online. JMI 4 and JMI 5 are on view at the moment. JMI 6 has come out and will be uploaded by the end of this month. The earlier issues will be uploaded thereafter. We would like to receive your comments. www.jmionline.org Moinak Biswas On behalf of the Editorial Board (Sanjoy Mukhopadhyay, Moinak Biswas, Abhijit Roy, Madhuja Mukhopadhyay, Anindya Sengupta, Manas K. Ghosh, Subhajit Chatterjee) Department of Film Studies Jadavpur University, Calcutta 700 032 Ph. 033 2414 6689 ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Thu Apr 3 16:41:51 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 15:11:51 +0400 Subject: [Reader-list] Schengen For You, But Not For Me Message-ID: The final step of Schengen enlargement – controls at internal air borders to be abolished in late March Source: Press room - Slovenian presidency of EU After the lifting of checks at internal land and sea borders with the Schengen area Member States on 21 December 2007, when Slovenia and eight other EU Member States entered the common area of free movement without internal border controls based on a decision by the EU interior ministers, border checks will also be lifted at air borders on 30 March 2008 This will represent the final step in the abolition of controls at internal borders. Based on its assessment that all nine candidates for enlargement of the Schengen area, including Slovenia, were ready for full application of the provisions of the Schengen acquis, the JHA Council on 6 December 2007 adopted the Council Decision on the full application of the Schengen acquis in the Czech Republic, Republic of Estonia, Republic of Latvia, Republic of Lithuania, Republic of Hungary, Republic of Malta, Republic of Poland, Republic of Slovenia and Slovak Republic. With Slovenia's entry into Schengen, border controls at the borders with Austria, Italy and Hungary were abolished, while at the same time border controls at the border with Croatia were reinforced, since this is now an EU external border. The entry into force of the Council Decision allowed for the lifting of checks at internal land and sea borders on 21 December 2007 and at air borders on 30 March 2008. The decision to abolish controls at airports at a later time has to do with changes in flight schedules, which are made twice a year in spring and in autumn. Apart from that, the reasons are also technical, as the implementation of the Schengen regime at airports imposes a strict separation between passengers on internal Schengen flights and other passengers in international traffic. In addition to high standards of physical border surveillance at land border crossing points and the use of the Schengen information system, the rules of Schengen external border control also require state-of-the-art technology for border checks at airports, which are simultaneously border crossing points at the external Schengen border (for extra-Schengen flights)and crossing points of internal borders without border checks (for intra-Schengen flights). To be able to meet the Schengen standards in air border control, Slovenia had to upgrade its airport infrastructure to allow for separation of passengers on Schengen and non-Schengen flights. Last year certain construction works and other measures were carried out at Ljubljana Jo~e Pu nik Airport to ensure the separation of internal and external flight passengers (a new passenger terminal at Jo~e Pu nik Airport was officially opened on 9 July 2007). For air passenger this means in practice that from 30 March onwards border checks will only be carried out on non-Schengen flights, i.e. flights involving the crossing of the external border. On these flights, border checks will be carried out for all passengers entering or exiting the Schengen area (including transit passengers catching a connecting intra-Schengen flight). There will be no border checks for internal flights from one Schengen country to another. The only remaining checks will be security checks, which will be performed by a security company and not by the police. From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Apr 3 20:03:20 2008 From: indersalim at gmail.com (inder salim) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 20:03:20 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: an open letter to Artists in Pakistan Message-ID: <47e122a70804030733m72355895paa32db97ed240417@mail.gmail.com> Rasheed Araeen London, 2 March 2008. During my last visit to Karachi in during December 2007 and January 2008, Durriya Kazi asked me: 'What can artists do...?' I couldn't respond to her question immediately. But it kept me thinking. However, I think Durriya's question was not just about what was happening politically, but about art's social role in society and how one could take up this role effectively. I'm glad that artists in Pakistan are concerned with political situation in the country, and want to do something to improve it. I therefore welcome the recent meeting of artists in Karachi on 29 February 2008. I wish I had been there and joined the meeting. However, it is imperative to recognize, first of all, that art does not possess the quality to intervene directly in political power and change it. All that artists can do is to protest against the violation of basic human rights and the suppression of the rights of individuals for self-expression. In this respect, I'm in solidarity with the meeting. This meeting has however given me an opportunity to say something about the situation of art in Pakistan. The main problem here, in my view, is not and should not be only about what is external to art (politics) but, more importantly, what constitutes art itself and the nature of its own production and recognition. Why do we make art? Is it merely to express one's inner needs, or/and to understand one's place in society? If it provides a value to society, how do we detect or recognise it? And how do we assess its significance? Do we have a rational system by which to discuss it, assess its merits and significance? These questions are seldom asked in Pakistan, let alone to pursue a critical discourse that can deal with these questions. When in fact I look at art in Pakistan, I find it extremely depressing. Every Tom, Dick and Harry (sorry for this expression) claims to be an artist. The problem here is not so much to do with someone claiming to be an artist, but with the problem of its reception and acceptance. First, does the claimant understand why he or she is an artist and what constitutes a responsibility in this respect? I'm not invoking here one's social or political responsibility, but a responsibility to art itself. Art demands a serious responsibility, dedication and commitment within its own discourse, which I'm sorry to say is totally lacking in Pakistan. Second, as for those who claim to be critics, I have not yet come across anyone who has the ability to distinguish horses from donkeys. The consequence of all this is that art in Pakistan, in general, has become deeply immersed in the culture of mediocrity. Worst of all, nobody can question or challenge this situation and change it, because mediocrity is the basis of power in Pakistan, and the imagination which is fundamental to art is trapped within and its existence is dependent on this power. In fact, it is not just mediocrity but its celebration that leads to the delusion of great claims: a spectacle of self-aggrandisement that is the product of infantile mentality. Let me be more specific about the problem of art in Pakistan. First of all, we must recognise that art is not just about making (pretty) pictures, sculpture (which doesn't exist in Pakistan), or what is now fashionable — performance, video or installation art — but a discipline. In order to understand the seriousness of the word 'discipline', let us turn to other disciplines, such as various braches of science, and see if we can learn something from this comparison. No serious scientist would ever say: 'Look, this what I do. This comes from inside me...', and so on. If someone were to say this, he or she would be dismissed as an idiot. But this happens in art all the time, specifically in Pakistan. The function of science is to produce new knowledge, so is (and must be) the function of art. In order to judge and evaluate the significance of what is claimed to be new knowledge, whether in science or art, it must be placed within the whole body of knowledge humanity has so far produced. Of course, the rules of art are not as rigid as those of science. Art involves one's own human subjectivity, and this subjectivity operates somewhat differently in science. It seems that art demands much more freedom of imagination, more play with the material involved in making art. But both art and science have something common: their histories. These histories tell us how both art and science originated and how they have evolved since their origins, accumulating a body of knowledge or ideas that are now there for humanity with which to move forward into the future. In fact, without an understanding of this body of knowledge — specifically of art, as this is our concern here — we cannot understand our present situation and have a vision of the future. Since I have used the analogy of science to explain the problems of art, let me take you to the time when I was a student of science. I'm in the chemistry lab with some of my fellow students, working with some chemicals. When we mix two chemicals, a fantastic change takes place in the tube with the appearance of a beautiful colour. We see in front of us a spectacle so exciting that we all jump with laughter. While we are amusing ourselves, our chemistry professor passes by: 'Ah, you think this is magic. Do you know why has this happened?' We are first dumfounded, by this sudden question, but then try to explain. If we didn't know that there was a rational explanation for what happened in front of our eyes, we would have been thrown out of the lab. We would have no right to be there pretending to be doing serious work. Art has now also been turned into a spectacle, and we amuse ourselves with it but without knowing if there is anything significant behind or within this spectacle. This came home to me recently when I watched the program 'Khuli Baat' on Pakistani TV on 24 December 2007. It was paying homage to Ismail Gulgee, who had been brutally murdered a few days earlier, and it was right that we had this program. It was also right on this occasion not to look at his work critically. But the participants — who were important members of Karachi's intellectual life =97 did talk about his work and put him high on a pedestal of greatness. Gulgee may be one of the great artists of Pakistan. But how do we know? Did anyone talk about the source of his work? Yes, they did. The words 'action painting' were repeatedly used. But no one asked how action painting arrived in Pakistan, and why? How come Gulgee became an action painter overnight, without a difficult process that artists have to go through to discover something new? A few weeks later, an article on Gulgee appeared in Dawn, the leading English daily newspaper published in Karachi (13 January 2008), in which the writer claimed Gulgee to be a visionary who 'harnessed the energy of the gesture in Islamic calligraphy and fused it with the dynamism of modern action painting'. If it were an ordinary journalist, one could ignore this nonsense. But these were the words of an important critic who did not know that there is nothing in Islamic calligraphy which can be described as 'gesture'. Islamic calligraphy is contemplative, which is opposite of the gestural angst of action painting. The meeting of Islamic calligraphy and action painting is like a meeting of two opposing forces; they cannot be fused without going through a confrontation out of which must emerge a synthesis. We do not find this in Gulgee's work. In fact, the supposed presence of Islamic calligraphy in Gulgee's work is an illusion, a superimposition or a mask, to hide what is a disturbing reality underneath; a reality that has entered Pakistan as a cancer to destroy its creative body with its own authentic vision. It is not my aim here to offer a critical scrutiny of Gulgee's work (I have written an article on him, but I was told it would not be possible to publish it in Pakistan). I'm here only using his example to ask some questions which are fundamental to art; questions that must be asked if we are interested in the seriousness of art. Artists must concern themselves with what is happening in Pakistan, but whoever comes to power will make little difference to art. The problem is not only with who is in power, but the culture of mediocrity that has penetrated our every walk of life and is destroying our creative imagination. I am writing all this because I have a faith and confidence in people's creativity in Pakistan. We don't have to look to the West and follow whatever it offers; nor should we succumb to nostalgia for the Mughals. Artists can offer an example, if not a lead, in developing a modern vision for Pakistan which is not only its own but offers a way forward for humanity at large. With best wishes, Rasheed Araeen London, 2 March 2008. Rasheed Araeen is the founding editor of Third Text. The journal has been published since 1987 and is now in its 92nd issue. The Asian edition, Third Text Asia, is being launched in April 2008 in Karachi, Paki -- From waliarifi3 at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 02:57:59 2008 From: waliarifi3 at gmail.com (Wali Arifi) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 14:27:59 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] PDP's Delhi handlers! Message-ID: <4fcaee300804031427q576c6b4al2c911fac4b7fff3a@mail.gmail.com> * Mufti's party tries to shake off its ' Delhi masters'* By Parvaiz Bukhari in Srinagar THE People's Democratic Party ( PDP)' s president Mehbooba Mufti has unveiled her " selfrule" plan for an undivided Kashmir and quashed allegations that her party is a creation of Indian intelligence agencies. She announced her grand plan to resolve the Kashmir issue at the recent Pugwash conference in Pakistan, of all places, before it was discussed with New Delhi or even people back home. This happened at a time when the PDP is facing internal rebellion and criticism from the National Conference ( NC), which alleged that her party was created and works for New Delhi's spies. To counter the attacks from her rivals, Mufti tried to show her party's independence and simultaneously distance the PDP from its perceived links with the intelligence establishment. These are difficult times for the PDP when it is preparing for the next assembly elections, slated for later this year. Launched in 1999, ostensibly as the biggest political operation of Indian intelligence in embattled Jammu and Kashmir, the party grew in strength to become a formidable challenger to the NC's strong hold in the Valley. But the party's think- tank is now finding it hard to get the history of its making off its back and give it the status of a credible alternative to the NC. And more so when Farooq Abdullah's NC is going through a rough patch and the former chief minister is trying to regain his position by attacking the PDP. " The PDP is a creation of New Delhi and ( intelligence) agencies, which are trying to divide and rule Kashmiris," Abdullah tells the people repeatedly. He may not be off the mark. The PDP's foundations were laid when New Delhi began to regain control in Kashmir after militancy struck a blow to the political power structure which existed in the shape of the NC. In the run- up to the 1996 elections, the first seven years, electoral politics was principally dependent on the NC. In such a scenario, New Delhi found the NC more demanding and reminiscent of 1952 when Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah began to question the state's accession to the Indian Union. The centre assigned former Union home minister Mufti Mohammad Sayeed the task and he was spot on — cashing in on anti- incumbency and other factors to rise to the chief minister's share with the Congress in tow. But, the unpleasant history hung heavy over the party and immediately after Sayeed stepped down as chief minister in tandem with the PDP- Congress power- sharing deal, he and his daughter floated the " self- rule" proposal. " It was the first attempt by the PDP to break free from any handling from outside ( read New Delhi)," said a party rebel. Sayeed's party is using its selfrule idea to give an impression that the Kashmir- specific component of the Indo- Pak peace process is driven by it. But the biggest question is: will the PDP be able to hold its flock together? Many of its founding members are attempting to form a third front. parvaiz. bukhari@ mailtoday. in http://mailtoday.in April, 3, 2008 Page 20 From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 13:27:48 2008 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2008 13:27:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Hindu Message-ID: This is a letter I have written to The Hindu in response to Pallavi Aiyar¹s , How China sees the Dalai Lama and his cause (The Hindu, April 3). I¹m posting the original article FYI below. ---------------------------- Pallavi Aiyar¹s , How China sees the Dalai Lama and his cause (The Hindu, April 3) is full of inconsistencies and errors. The argument that the Chinese leadership cannot be expected to engage in talks with the Dalai Lama because they have portrayed him as the enemy for the last 50 years, is like agonizing over how the Sangh Parivar can ever embrace Indian Muslims after demonizing the community all its life. The only sane answer to this can be: well, that¹s your problem, now go figure! Aiyar admits that there is little information about Tibet within China and then strangely concludes that there is widespread anger at Tibetan protests based on her readings of Chinese blogs. How does one accurately ascertain what people genuinely feel or think under an authoritarian government that controls information, thought and expression? Besides, Aiyar seems totally unaware of the ripples generated by the recent letter to the Chinese government calling for a direct dialogue with the Dalai Lama by over 30 Chinese intellectuals, many of who are Han. To assert that the Chinese government has to Œsell¹ an idea to the public is specious. Since when have dictatorships bothered with popularity ratings? Did the Chinese government assess what 1.25 million of its citizens felt when they were displaced to make way for the Olympic games, or the millions displaced in the Three Gorge Project, or what people feel when the government regularly arrests and incarcerates Chinese intellectuals, journalists, lawyers and activists who may harbour different opinions from the present regime? Aiyar claims the Dalai Lama refused an invitation by China in 1989 Œin an effort to re-start stalled talks,¹ and that he Œchose instead to appeal to the West to put pressure on China to accede to his demands,¹ and that is why the Chinese view him Œas a chronically unreliable negotiator.¹ What is her source of information? Why does she fail to mention concrete Tibetan efforts of preceding years that include the Dalai Lama¹s 5-point Proposal (1987) and Strasbourg Proposal (1988), and an invitation for talks in Geneva in 1988? The Panchen Lama died on 28 January 1989. The Chinese invitation to the Dalai Lama came unexpectedly on Feb 7 to attend the cremation on Feb 15. Is it reasonable to expect him to jump at an invitation from hostile forces with just a week to prepare for thirty years of absence? Incidentally, when the Dalai Lama subsequently asked to visit Tibet and to meet Premier Li Peng during his visit to New Delhi in 1991, both were denied. The Chinese government¹s stonewalling of the Tibet issue and issues of human rights within China cannot be viewed as a sovereign state¹s legitimate rights over Œinternal matters¹. These are acts of hubris which will sooner or later force those in power to weigh what is more important, absolute power for the Communist Party of China or the very existence of China itself? Sonia Jabbar ------------------------------------ How China sees the Dalai Lama and his cause Pallavi Aiyar What those urging China to negotiate with the Dalai Lama fail to recognise is the fact that Beijing's main constituency is not the international community but its own domestic public. For Beijing to appear 'soft' on the Dalai Lama would be as politically unpalatable domestically asit would be in the United States were Washington to decide to engage in dialogue with Osama bin Laden.  With tensions in Tibet continuing to bubble, pundits and politicians in both India and the West are increasingly calling for talks between the Chinese government and the Dalai Lama. One argument supporting the utility of talks between the Chinese leadership and the pre-eminent Tibetan Buddhist leader reasons that contrary to the dominant belief in Beijing, the Dalai Lama is in fact China's best bet for a long-term and stabl e solution to the Tibet issue. Only the Dalai Lama has the stature and authority to convince the Tibetan population at large that its interests lie within rather than separate from China, this line of reasoning proceeds. Thus it is argued that if Beijing loses out on the opportunity to reach an accommodation with the exiled leader now, it may end up with an even more unpredictable and hard to control situation regarding Tibetan aspirations for self-determination after the Dalai's death. Others are urging the Chinese leadership to negotiate with the Dalai Lama to prove to the world that it "deserves" to host the Olympic Games. Beijing will be able to boost its international image and prove its critics wrong if only it would agree to talks, it is claimed. What neither of these arguments takes into account, however, is how strongly divergent perceptions of the Dalai Lama within China and abroad, combined with the deep vein of government-stoked nationalism that runs through contemporary Chinese society, make it virtually impossible for Beijing to sell any potential deal reached with the Dalai Lama to its public. While in the West the Dalai is widely seen as a Nobel prize-winning, peace-loving figure of moral authority, within China the monk is regularly projected as not only a separatist but also a duplicitous trouble-maker not above unleashing violence. In the aftermath of the recent riots and protests in Tibet, Internet chat rooms in China are abuzz with anger and indignation at what many see as the biased portrayal of the situation by the western media and the 'hypocritical' actions and statements of the Dalai Lama. Revealingly, many Chinese have even lashed out at the authorities for their ostensible leniency in dealing with the protests, in sharp contradistinction to the 'repressive crackdown' most commentators abroad have criticised Beijing for. The majority of Chinese have little awareness that there is a Tibet problem at all. Although a relatively high-profile issue abroad, thanks in part to the efforts of Hollywood, within China Tibet is usually far less prominent in the consciousness of the average Chinese than Taiwan. In school, Chinese youngsters are taught how the region has only benefited from Communist rule. The feudal theocracy of the Dalai Lama was replaced by the enlightened policies of the People's Republic, they are told, with the result that Tibet has enjoyed rising living standards and economic development. While the Dalai Lama is portrayed as a sinister figure working to split Tibet from the Chinese nation, he is also described as having little support among the Tibetan population at large. When I gave a lecture to a class of about 50 students at one of Beijing's top journalism universities a few years ago, I discovered that not one of the bright, young things I was talking to was aware that the Dalai Lama had won the Nobel prize. Moreover, many Chinese regard Tibetans as being unfairly privileged since they are granted certain special subsidies and benefits from the government because of their ethnic status. For example, they are exempted from the one-child policy that restricts urban Han Chinese families to a single child. Given this background, the TV footage and photographs of rampaging monks in Lhasa and elsewhere attacking Han civilians and security forces have bewildered many Chinese. They are particularly outraged at western media stories that consistently blame the Chinese government for its handling of the situation while bolstering the Dalai Lama's version of events. With the Olympics being held in Beijing this August, 2008 was intended as a year for the Chinese to showcase their new globalised and friendly face to the world. Instead the reaction of the West to the Tibet issue, widely publicised daily in all official media, is leading to feelings of victimisation among the Chinese and a correspondingly sharp response from the authorities. "If the terrorists insist on carrying out their attacks on lives and properties of the Chinese nation," opined one netizen on the English language China Daily website chat room, "[the] next step would be to exterminate them, like so many cockroaches." He added: "The Olympics is only a party to celebrate China's successes. It is not a goal in itself. Allowing the terrorists to run amok would jeopardise the 30 years of successes from all that hard work and smart work of the Chinese citizenry." What those urging China to negotiate with the Dalai Lama fail to recognise is the fact that Beijing's main constituency is not the international community but its own domestic public. The Olympics, important though they may be to the country's prestige, are seen as far less important than China's territorial integrity. There is a range of scholarship on contemporary China that demonstrates the fundamental utility of nationalism as a source of legitimacy to the country's ruling party. Given this fact, for Beijing to appear 'soft' on the Dalai Lama would be as politically unpalatable domestically as it would be in the United States were Washington to decide to engage in dialogue with Osama bin Laden. The door for dialogue and genuine compromise between the Chinese government and the Dalai Lama was open briefly in the 1980s. The two sides held secret talks in Beijing in 1982 and 1984. At the time however, the Dalai Lama was less clear than he states he is today on the issue of how far he was willing to accept Chinese rule over Tibet. The exiles repeatedly insisted that any solution must entail the governance of Tibet under a totally different political system than what the rest of China had. This would mean transforming the region into a self-governing democratic entity, something that was patently unacceptable to Beijing. When in 1989 the Chinese authorities invited the Dalai Lama to participate in a religious ceremony in an effort to re-start stalled talks, the exiled leader refused. He chose instead to appeal to the West to put pressure on China to accede to his demands. For Beijing this move branded the Dalai Lama as a chronically unreliable negotiator. Since then the Chinese leadership's preferred approach is to wait for the monk's passing. The idea is that any successor of the current Dalai is unlikely to inspire similar veneration in Tibetans and would thus lack the clout enjoyed by the current leader. Thus while Chinese leaders have repeatedly, in recent weeks, stated that they are open to talks with the Dalai Lama, they reiterate the caveat that he must give up his demand for independence. The Dalai Lama in turn has repeatedly insisted that he has no such claim. The Chinese respond by pointing to the riots in Lhasa and hence the Dalai's 'obvious insincerity.' And so on it goes, in circles. Even were the government persuaded to attempt a compromise with the exiled leader, its room for manoeuvre is slim given the way the public views the situation. Any change in Beijing's position, including talks with the Dalai Lama, would appear as bowing to foreign pressure and failing to respond firmly to violence. In 1989 the Dalai Lama won the Nobel peace prize. However, beyond symbolic gains for his cause, his strategy of appealing to the West for support failed to make China compromise on Tibet. In fact, it precipitated a more hard-line policy on the issue, which persists till today. With the recent protests and the upcoming Olympic Games, the Dalai and Tibet are once again in the international limelight. However, given the Chinese reaction there is little cause to believe any fundamental shift in Tibet's situation will be precipitated. From rashneek at gmail.com Thu Apr 3 09:56:55 2008 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:56:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Navreh Celebrations at Faridabad-Divay Message-ID: <13df7c120804022126i4d644209t729357da545a9ab7@mail.gmail.com> "*Roots in Kashmir*" in association with "*Kashmiri Sewak Samaj,Faridabad*" invites everyone to be a part of the Navreh(Kashmiri New Year) Celebrations on 6th of April,07. Renowned Kashmiri singer Kailash Mehra will enthrall the audiences with her mesmerizing voice. Others who will perform are Ravi Bhan(Light Kashmiri Classical and Sufiana Music),Sanjeev Raina"Gautam"(Traditional Kashmiri Folk-Chakri and Leela),Priyanka Patwari(Indian Classical Dance-Bharatnatyam). The Celebrations shall continue all night till the arrival of the first rays of Sun on 7th April,08. *Venue:* Hari Parvat Anangpur Village,Faridabad. *Time* from 2.30 PM onwards on 6th April,07 Anangpur is a small village,nestled between the Aravalis.A small by lane almost 1km ahead of Surajkund (on the Firing Range Road)takes you to the village.Atop the hillock,near the Anangpur Village,Faridabad,rests the replica of the temple of Sharika(the presiding deity of Kashmir). For any information please feel free to contact me at 9810049979. Best Regards and Have a Glorious Year Ahead... -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From markcmarino at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 11:52:11 2008 From: markcmarino at gmail.com (Mark Marino) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 22:22:11 -0800 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] CFP: Elit under the Stars (7/25/08) Message-ID: <287213f30804032322u6eaa3ffdt90292ea7b332e20a@mail.gmail.com> Hi, wanted to let you know about this event. Please help pass it along! Elit Open Mic/Open Mouse April 25,2008, 7:30pm USC, Institute for Multimedia Literacy Calling All creators (and fans) of Electronic Literature: authors, designers, and programmers. Sign up now to present your new or favorite work of elit in our Open Mic/Open Mouse. Venue: Outdoors under the stars at the Institute for Multimedia Literacy, 746 West Adams Blvd., LA, CA 90089 at the University of Southern California. Potential Genres: * Electronic Poetry * Hypertext * Interactive Fiction * Interactive Drama * Conversational Agents * Video Mashups * Serious Games * Flash Works * Codeworks Any work that could be labeled "Electronic Literature" is welcome Or you may read an excerpt of one of your favorite elit works. Performance Spots Length: 7 Minutes Max The performance will be Free and Open to the public. Contact: To sign up, contact Jeremy Douglass [jeremydouglass [at] gmail] Organized by Mark Marino, Jeremy Douglass, and Jessica Pressman with support from Holly Willis of the Institute for Multimedia Literacy and from the Electronic Literature Organization. For more information see: http://writerresponsetheory.org/wordpress/2008/04/03/underthestars/ -- Writing Program University of Southern California http://WriterResponseTheory.org http://CriticalCodeStudies.com -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From mitoo at sarai.net Thu Apr 3 05:58:04 2008 From: mitoo at sarai.net (Mitoo Das) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:28:04 -1200 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] 12th B.N.Ganguly Memorial Lecture Message-ID: <47F42494.8070900@sarai.net> Centre for the Study of Developing Societies cordially invites you to the 12th B.N. Ganguli Memorial Lecture "Rethinking Collectivities: Institutional Innovations in Group Farming, Community Forestry and Strategic Alliances" by "Professor Bina Agarwal" *Friday, 11th April 2008, 5:30 PM 29, Rajpur Road Delhi 110054 Professor Niraja Gopal Jayal will chair * "B.N. Ganguli Memorial Lectures" are instituted in memory of the distinguished economist-intellectual Professor B.N. Ganguli, former Chair CSDS Board of Governors. Earlier speakers in the series include Professors Charles Taylor, Rodolfo Stavenhagen, Raimundo Panikkar, Bhikhu Parekh, Ernest Gellner, Ali Mazrui, Roberto Unger, Michael Walzer, John Keane, Amit Bhaduri and Giorgio Agamben. "Bina Agarwal" is Professor of Economics at the Institute of Economic Growth, Delhi University. She has written on a range of subjects: land, livelihoods and property rights; environment and development; the political economy of gender; poverty and inequality; law; and agriculture and technological change. Among her books are "Cold Hearths, Barren Slopes: The Woodfuel Crisis in the Third World" and "A Field of One's Own: Gender and Land Rights in South Asia". Her writings have been used extensively in framing policy by governments, NGOs and international agencies. She has participated in the formulation of several of India's Five Year Plans. She was conferred the Padma Shri in 2008. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Niraja Gopal Jayal" is Professor at the Centre for the Study of Law and Governance, Jawaharlal Nehru University and Senior Fellow at the Nehru Memorial Museum and Library. She is the author of "Democracy and the State: Welfare, Secularism and Development in Contemporary India" and "Representing India: Ethnic Diversity and the Governance of Public Institutions". -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From moinakb at yahoo.com Wed Apr 2 15:59:22 2008 From: moinakb at yahoo.com (moinak biswas) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2008 03:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Journal of the Moving Image is Online Message-ID: <696009.52605.qm@web54307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Journal of the Moving Image, the annual publication of the Department of Film Studies, Jadavpur University, is now available online at www.jmionline.org JMI 4 and JMI 5 are on view at the moment. JMI. 6 will come up by the end of the month. The back issues will be uploaded thereafter. We would like to receive your comments. Moinak Biswas On behalf of the Editorial Board (Sanjoy Mukhopadhyay, Moinak Biswas, Abhijit Roy, Madhuja Mukhopadhyay, Anindya Sengupta, Manas K. Ghosh, Subhajit Chatterjee) Department of Film Studies Jadavpur University, Calcutta 700 032 Ph. 033 2411 1143 (home), 033 2414 6689 (office) ____________________________________________________________________________________ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From rashneek at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 14:01:50 2008 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 14:01:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Navreh Celebrations-Invitation Message-ID: <13df7c120804040131j385ae475y7337de1f2dc40744@mail.gmail.com> "*Roots in Kashmir*" in association with "*Kashmiri Sewak Samaj,Faridabad*" invites your presence on the Navreh (Kashmiri New Year) Celebrations on 6th of April,07. Renowned Kashmiri singer Kailash Mehra will enthrall the audiences with her mesmerizing voice. Others who will perform are Ravi Bhan(Light Kashmiri Classical and Sufiana Music),Sanjeev Raina"Gautam"(Traditional Kashmiri Folk-Chakri and Leela),Priyanka Patwari(Indian Classical Dance-Bharatnatyam). The Celebrations and Prayers shall continue all night till the arrival of the first rays of Sun on 7th April,08. *Venue:* Hari Parvat Anangpur Village,Faridabad. *Time* from 2.30 PM onwards on 6th April,07 Anangpur is a small village,nestled between the Aravalis.A small by lane almost 1km ahead of Surajkund (on the Firing Range Road)takes you to the village.Atop the hillock,near the Anangpur Village,Faridabad,rests the replica of the temple of Sharika(the presiding deity of Kashmir). For any information please feel free to contact me at 9810049979. Best Regards - Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From taraprakash at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 19:39:31 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:09:31 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] The Hindu References: Message-ID: <013101c89661$c539c1f0$4624ab0a@taraprakash> Thanks Sonia for writing this letter. However, Hindu which has seemingly assumed a role of being the mouthpiece of current Chinese regime, is the least likely to pay any attention to it, let alone publish it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Jabbar" To: "sarai list" Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 3:57 AM Subject: [Reader-list] The Hindu > This is a letter I have written to The Hindu in response to Pallavi > Aiyar¹s > , How China sees the Dalai Lama and his cause (The Hindu, April 3). I¹m > posting the original article FYI below. > > ---------------------------- > > Pallavi Aiyar¹s , How China sees the Dalai Lama and his cause (The Hindu, > April 3) is full of inconsistencies and errors. The argument that the > Chinese leadership cannot be expected to engage in talks with the Dalai > Lama > because they have portrayed him as the enemy for the last 50 years, is > like > agonizing over how the Sangh Parivar can ever embrace Indian Muslims after > demonizing the community all its life. The only sane answer to this can > be: > well, that¹s your problem, now go figure! > > Aiyar admits that there is little information about Tibet within China and > then strangely concludes that there is widespread anger at Tibetan > protests > based on her readings of Chinese blogs. How does one accurately ascertain > what people genuinely feel or think under an authoritarian government that > controls information, thought and expression? Besides, Aiyar seems > totally > unaware of the ripples generated by the recent letter to the Chinese > government calling for a direct dialogue with the Dalai Lama by over 30 > Chinese intellectuals, many of who are Han. > > To assert that the Chinese government has to Œsell¹ an idea to the public > is > specious. Since when have dictatorships bothered with popularity ratings? > Did the Chinese government assess what 1.25 million of its citizens felt > when they were displaced to make way for the Olympic games, or the > millions > displaced in the Three Gorge Project, or what people feel when the > government regularly arrests and incarcerates Chinese intellectuals, > journalists, lawyers and activists who may harbour different opinions from > the present regime? > > Aiyar claims the Dalai Lama refused an invitation by China in 1989 Œin an > effort to re-start stalled talks,¹ and that he Œchose instead to appeal to > the West to put pressure on China to accede to his demands,¹ and that is > why > the Chinese view him Œas a chronically unreliable negotiator.¹ What is her > source of information? Why does she fail to mention concrete Tibetan > efforts of preceding years that include the Dalai Lama¹s 5-point Proposal > (1987) and Strasbourg Proposal (1988), and an invitation for talks in > Geneva > in 1988? > > The Panchen Lama died on 28 January 1989. The Chinese invitation to the > Dalai Lama came unexpectedly on Feb 7 to attend the cremation on Feb 15. > Is > it reasonable to expect him to jump at an invitation from hostile forces > with just a week to prepare for thirty years of absence? Incidentally, > when > the Dalai Lama subsequently asked to visit Tibet and to meet Premier Li > Peng > during his visit to New Delhi in 1991, both were denied. > > The Chinese government¹s stonewalling of the Tibet issue and issues of > human > rights within China cannot be viewed as a sovereign state¹s legitimate > rights over Œinternal matters¹. These are acts of hubris which will > sooner > or later force those in power to weigh what is more important, absolute > power for the Communist Party of China or the very existence of China > itself? > > Sonia Jabbar > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > How China sees the Dalai Lama and his cause > Pallavi Aiyar > > What those urging China to negotiate with the Dalai Lama fail to recognise > is the fact that Beijing's main constituency is not the international > community but its own domestic public. For Beijing to appear 'soft' on the > Dalai Lama would be as politically unpalatable domestically asit would be > in > the United States were Washington to decide to engage in dialogue with > Osama > bin Laden. > > With tensions in Tibet continuing to bubble, pundits and politicians in > both > India and the West are increasingly calling for talks between the Chinese > government and the Dalai Lama. > One argument supporting the utility of talks between the Chinese > leadership > and the pre-eminent Tibetan Buddhist leader reasons that contrary to the > dominant belief in Beijing, the Dalai Lama is in fact China's best bet for > a > long-term and stabl e solution to the Tibet issue. Only the Dalai Lama has > the stature and authority to convince the Tibetan population at large that > its interests lie within rather than separate from China, this line of > reasoning proceeds. Thus it is argued that if Beijing loses out on the > opportunity to reach an accommodation with the exiled leader now, it may > end > up with an even more unpredictable and hard to control situation regarding > Tibetan aspirations for self-determination after the Dalai's death. > > Others are urging the Chinese leadership to negotiate with the Dalai Lama > to > prove to the world that it "deserves" to host the Olympic Games. Beijing > will be able to boost its international image and prove its critics wrong > if > only it would agree to talks, it is claimed. > > What neither of these arguments takes into account, however, is how > strongly > divergent perceptions of the Dalai Lama within China and abroad, combined > with the deep vein of government-stoked nationalism that runs through > contemporary Chinese society, make it virtually impossible for Beijing to > sell any potential deal reached with the Dalai Lama to its public. While > in > the West the Dalai is widely seen as a Nobel prize-winning, peace-loving > figure of moral authority, within China the monk is regularly projected as > not only a separatist but also a duplicitous trouble-maker not above > unleashing violence. > > In the aftermath of the recent riots and protests in Tibet, Internet chat > rooms in China are abuzz with anger and indignation at what many see as > the > biased portrayal of the situation by the western media and the > 'hypocritical' actions and statements of the Dalai Lama. Revealingly, many > Chinese have even lashed out at the authorities for their ostensible > leniency in dealing with the protests, in sharp contradistinction to the > 'repressive crackdown' most commentators abroad have criticised Beijing > for. > > The majority of Chinese have little awareness that there is a Tibet > problem > at all. Although a relatively high-profile issue abroad, thanks in part to > the efforts of Hollywood, within China Tibet is usually far less prominent > in the consciousness of the average Chinese than Taiwan. In school, > Chinese > youngsters are taught how the region has only benefited from Communist > rule. > The feudal theocracy of the Dalai Lama was replaced by the enlightened > policies of the People's Republic, they are told, with the result that > Tibet > has enjoyed rising living standards and economic development. > > While the Dalai Lama is portrayed as a sinister figure working to split > Tibet from the Chinese nation, he is also described as having little > support > among the Tibetan population at large. When I gave a lecture to a class of > about 50 students at one of Beijing's top journalism universities a few > years ago, I discovered that not one of the bright, young things I was > talking to was aware that the Dalai Lama had won the Nobel prize. > > Moreover, many Chinese regard Tibetans as being unfairly privileged since > they are granted certain special subsidies and benefits from the > government > because of their ethnic status. For example, they are exempted from the > one-child policy that restricts urban Han Chinese families to a single > child. > > Given this background, the TV footage and photographs of rampaging monks > in > Lhasa and elsewhere attacking Han civilians and security forces have > bewildered many Chinese. They are particularly outraged at western media > stories that consistently blame the Chinese government for its handling of > the situation while bolstering the Dalai Lama's version of events. > > With the Olympics being held in Beijing this August, 2008 was intended as > a > year for the Chinese to showcase their new globalised and friendly face to > the world. Instead the reaction of the West to the Tibet issue, widely > publicised daily in all official media, is leading to feelings of > victimisation among the Chinese and a correspondingly sharp response from > the authorities. "If the terrorists insist on carrying out their attacks > on > lives and properties of the Chinese nation," opined one netizen on the > English language China Daily website chat room, "[the] next step would be > to > exterminate them, like so many cockroaches." He added: "The Olympics is > only > a party to celebrate China's successes. It is not a goal in itself. > Allowing > the terrorists to run amok would jeopardise the 30 years of successes from > all that hard work and smart work of the Chinese citizenry." What those > urging China to negotiate with the Dalai Lama fail to recognise is the > fact > that Beijing's main constituency is not the international community but > its > own domestic public. The Olympics, important though they may be to the > country's prestige, are seen as far less important than China's > territorial > integrity. > > There is a range of scholarship on contemporary China that demonstrates > the > fundamental utility of nationalism as a source of legitimacy to the > country's ruling party. Given this fact, for Beijing to appear 'soft' on > the > Dalai Lama would be as politically unpalatable domestically as it would be > in the United States were Washington to decide to engage in dialogue with > Osama bin Laden. > > The door for dialogue and genuine compromise between the Chinese > government > and the Dalai Lama was open briefly in the 1980s. The two sides held > secret > talks in Beijing in 1982 and 1984. At the time however, the Dalai Lama was > less clear than he states he is today on the issue of how far he was > willing > to accept Chinese rule over Tibet. The exiles repeatedly insisted that any > solution must entail the governance of Tibet under a totally different > political system than what the rest of China had. This would mean > transforming the region into a self-governing democratic entity, something > that was patently unacceptable to Beijing. > > When in 1989 the Chinese authorities invited the Dalai Lama to participate > in a religious ceremony in an effort to re-start stalled talks, the exiled > leader refused. He chose instead to appeal to the West to put pressure on > China to accede to his demands. For Beijing this move branded the Dalai > Lama > as a chronically unreliable negotiator. Since then the Chinese > leadership's > preferred approach is to wait for the monk's passing. The idea is that any > successor of the current Dalai is unlikely to inspire similar veneration > in > Tibetans and would thus lack the clout enjoyed by the current leader. > > Thus while Chinese leaders have repeatedly, in recent weeks, stated that > they are open to talks with the Dalai Lama, they reiterate the caveat that > he must give up his demand for independence. The Dalai Lama in turn has > repeatedly insisted that he has no such claim. The Chinese respond by > pointing to the riots in Lhasa and hence the Dalai's 'obvious > insincerity.' > And so on it goes, in circles. Even were the government persuaded to > attempt > a compromise with the exiled leader, its room for manoeuvre is slim given > the way the public views the situation. Any change in Beijing's position, > including talks with the Dalai Lama, would appear as bowing to foreign > pressure and failing to respond firmly to violence. > > In 1989 the Dalai Lama won the Nobel peace prize. However, beyond symbolic > gains for his cause, his strategy of appealing to the West for support > failed to make China compromise on Tibet. In fact, it precipitated a more > hard-line policy on the issue, which persists till today. With the recent > protests and the upcoming Olympic Games, the Dalai and Tibet are once > again > in the international limelight. However, given the Chinese reaction there > is > little cause to believe any fundamental shift in Tibet's situation will be > precipitated. > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From reartikulacija at gmail.com Thu Apr 3 12:40:35 2008 From: reartikulacija at gmail.com (reartikulacija reartikulacija) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 09:10:35 +0200 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] 3rd Issue of the journal for critical theory, political analysis and contemporary art REARTIKULACIJA Message-ID: <1f7bb6c60804030010x7946c624x873a6cf9753419ba@mail.gmail.com> REARTIKULACIJA, Ljubljana Self-organized platfom and journal for critical theory and political analysis of the Slovene, Balkan, EU and contemporary art. www.reartikulacija.org * * *Number 3 of Reartikulacija, MARCH 2008* *Contents: * *REARTIKULACIJA * Marina Grzinic:REARTICULATION OF THE STATE OF THINGS OR EURO-SLOVENIAN NECROCAPITALISM Stas Kleindienst:DE-POLITICIZING POLITICS: CONTROL OVER PRODUCTION AND LIFE Sebastjan Leban:IMPORT/EXPORT: THE LOGIC OF CONTEMPT IN CONTEMPORARY NEOLIBERAL IMPERIALISM *ERASED * The thematic issue of the Journal for Critique of Science: A STORY OF AN ERASURE *NEW FASCISMS * Sefik Seki Tatlic:ALIEN IN TRANSITION AS A REFLECTION OF CAPITALIST TOTALITARIANISM *DECOLONISATION * Subhabrata Bobby Banarjee: LIVE AND LET DIE: COLONIAL SOVEREIGNTIES AND THE DEATH WORLDS OF NECROCAPITALISM Sebastjan Leban:DEPRECIATING LIFE – A Conversation with Subhabrata Bobby Banerjee *QUEER * Tatjana Greif: SCHENGEN IN PRACTICE *LESBIAN BAR * Natasa Velikonja: EUROPE IS BORING *BELGRADE (OTHER) SCENE * Ana Vujanovic and Marta Popivoda in collaboration with Ana Vilenica: OPEN GLOSSARY – ENTRY No. 02/08 *POSITIONING * NSK STATE IN TIME *STATE OF EXCEPTION * EXCEPTION: CONTEMPORARY ART SCENE FROM PRISHTINA Eduard Freudmann and Ivana Marjanovic: THE EXCEPTION PROVES THE RULE Ana Vujanovic in collaboration with the actors of the Other Scene: NO EXCEPTION! *HARD (CORE) * Katja Kobolt: GREY STARS ON THE EUROPEAN BLUE(S) SKIES: The European Funds a Dream and a Precarization of Culture in Slovenia *(HARD) CORE * Katharina Morawek: UNFREEZING THE MUSEUMS: THE POWER OF DISPLAY *HYPERCOMMODIFICATION * Zolta kronika: A MANIFESTO OF THE YELLOW CHRONICLES (ŽOLTA KRONIKA) *DEEP THROAT * Marina Grzinic:WHAT IS TO BE DONE? – A Conversation with Dmitry Vilensky *Reartikulacija* is an art project by the group Reartikulacija (Marina Grzinic, Stas Kleindienst, Sebastjan Leban and Tanja Passoni). It is based on a precise intervention logic; through contemporary theory, critic, art projects, activism and self-organization it aims to intervene in Slovene, Balkan and international space. The platform allows networking with other critical, activist, theoretical and art subjects in Slovenia, Europe and worldwide, who are interested in the possibility to create and maintain a dialogue with concrete social and political spaces. -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From swakkhyar at gmail.com Sat Apr 5 15:28:08 2008 From: swakkhyar at gmail.com (swakkhyar deka) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 15:28:08 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] short film festival Message-ID: <99ca36500804050258w3266e2c1va8c8de9d1cef7d87@mail.gmail.com> hi there......would anybody like to inform me about short film festivals in India in the next few months....?.....I have made a short film of 14 mintues and would like to show it to people.....here in India mainly.....so please let me know.... From anivar at movingrepublic.org Sat Apr 5 11:09:37 2008 From: anivar at movingrepublic.org (Anivar Aravind) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:09:37 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Join the ViBGYOR Film Fraternity! Message-ID: <47F71099.9050609@movingrepublic.org> *Join the ViBGYOR Film Fraternity!* ViBGYOR- the PEOPLE'S FILM FESTIVAL =================================== Celebrating Identities and Diversity The Annual ViBGYOR Film Festival in Thrissur, Kerala and its associated activities have, in the last 3 years, become a significant alternative space for issue based independent films and a meeting place for filmmakers, social movements, activists and the student community. It is today among the biggest independent documentary film festivals in the country and is fast becoming an important event for independent filmmakers and people's movements. Please visit our site www.vibgyorfilm.com for details on our festivals and other activities in the past three years. The 3rd edition of ViBGYOR was held from February 13-17 2008. Nearly 1500 women and men participated and 175 films were screened at the 3 venues in; Thrissur town, the `Village ViBGYOR' (held in different centers of Pananchery village panchayath) and `Campus ViBGYOR' (in 3 colleges). This year's edition also saw open forum discussions, a media exhibition and music performances. True to its activist traditions, the festival also served as a space to highlight three important campaigns on the Athirappilly (Chalakudy) Hydroelectric project, the Chakkankandam (Guruvayur) sewage plant and the ongoing Human Rights violations in the state of Manipur. 3 films relating to these struggles were screened at the festival and representatives from each area spoke to the public and media. We have been inspired and enthused by the support we received for the past three editions of ViBGYOR and hope to screen films across the country this year through a Traveling Festival. We are also in the process of making the collections of the ViBGYOR Digital Film Archives available to the general public, with around 2500 films--documentaries, short fiction, feature-length fiction, animations, music videos and spots—already in our stack. Depending on the type of membership that individuals and institutions may want to avail, different services of the Archives will be offered to them. This membership scheme is an attempt to broaden the organizational and financial support base of ViBGYOR. =/ APPEAL:/= As with any people led initiative, ViBGYOR film festival has faced severe financial crisis. In spite of support from local groups, activists and partner organizations, the local organizers of the festival have incurred a cumulative loss of approximately rupees Seven lakhs over the past 3 years. One of the reasons is that the festival in principle does not accept any corporate funding and has received little support from Government departments and public trusts. Major expenses incurred have been for travel, hire of equipment, halls, publications and accommodation and food for filmmakers and activists who attend the annual event. We appeal to friends and well-wishers to join the ViBGYOR Film Fraternity and thus support this alternative film festival, so that we can address the current financial crisis and also plan for the future. There are several ways to become part of the ViBGYOR Film Fraternity: 1. Contribute a lump sum of Rs. 5000 ($ 150 for people outside India) and be an Associate of the ViBGYOR Film collective. 2. Contribute Rs. 100 a month or Rs. 1000/- as one time payment and become a Member of the ViBGYOR Support Group 3. Contribute any amount as an individual Contributors to the ViBGYOR Fund, apart from becoming eligible for different types of Memberships, will be listed on our website, ViBGYOR Souvenir, the monthly News Letter and the next Festival Book. They will be entitled to one Guest Pass entry to ViBGYOR Annual Film Festival and associated activities. An e-group will link all friends and supporters of ViBGYOR, with monthly updates on all ViBGYOR events. We hope to collect at least rupees 10 lakhs towards the deficit in the past and for the activities we have planned for the next three years. If you are interested in supporting this initiative, please write a DD/cheque to `ViBGYOR Film Collective' payable at Thrissur and mail it to the address below. Or you may directly transfer the money to the ViBGYOR Collective account (a/c number: 110533, Catholic Syrian Bank, Thrissur Town Branch). Please provide us with your postal address so that we can send you the receipt. Awarding of Membership to the ViBGYOR Film Fraternity will take place in the near future in a public function attended by eminent filmmakers and other dignitaries. For ViBGYOR Collective, K.P.Sasi (President) C.Saratchandran (Vice President ) Fr. Benny Benedict (Secretary) K.C.Santhoshkumar, Anivar Aravind ,Jibu Thomas, T.N.Prasannakumar, K.K.Sunilkumar (Joint-Directors) Mustafa Desamangalam, Adv. Lima Ramadas (Depty. Directors) ViBGYOR Film Festival Office Chetana, Kalliath Square, Palace Road Thrissur: 680 020, Kerala, INDIA Tel: +91-487-2330830/0-9447000830 info at vibgyorfilm.com, www.vibgyorfilm.com _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From pratilipi.in at gmail.com Sat Apr 5 15:44:34 2008 From: pratilipi.in at gmail.com (Pratilipi) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2008 15:44:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Announcing "Pratilipi" - www.pratilipi.in - Possibly India's First Online, Bilingual (Hindi/English), Literary Magazine Message-ID: <435290ba0804050314t5afb529clfa6878714aa2d322@mail.gmail.com> मित्रों/ Hi, संभवतः, भारत की पहली द्विभाषी, ऑनलाइन , साहित्यिक पत्रिका – प्रतिलिपि – के लोकार्पण पर आपका स्वागत है/We welcome you to Pratilipi.in - quite possibly India's first bi-lingual, online literary magazine. प्रवेशांक आपके हाथों में है और हम ख़ुद नहीं बोलेंगे, प्रतिलिपि को ही बोलने देंगे /Our inaugural issue is out. And we shall let it speak for itself. हमें विश्वास है की प्रतिलिपि के पन्नों पर और भाषाओं व लिपियों में, और बहुत सारे लोग, और बहुत तरह के लेखन आयेंगे और बात करेंगे/ We are sure more people, more kinds of writings, more languages and scripts, will come together and converse at Pratilipi. हमारी वेबसाईट है / The website - http://www.pratilipi.in प्रवेशांक /The first issue - प्रतिलिपि अप्रैल २००८ / PRATILIPI - April 2008 शीर्ष आलेख / LEAD ARTICLE - प्रतिरोध और साहित्य: मदन सोनी /MADAN SONI ON RESISTANCE AND LITERATURE IN HINDI फीचर्स / FEATURES - THREE NEW INDIAN ENGLISH POETS AND A FEMALE MAX BROD/ तीन नए भारतीय अंग्रेज़ी कवि और एक स्त्री-मैक्स ब्रॉड - SUDHIR CHANDRA ON 1857 AND INDIAN INTELLIGENTSIA /१८५७ के बौद्धिक उत्तरजीवन पर सुधीर चंद्र - RUSTAM (SINGH) ON SELF AND TIME / आत्म और काल पर रुस्तम (सिंह) कथा /FICTION - गीतांजलि श्री और अनिरुद्ध उमट के उपन्यासों के अंश /EXCERPTS FROM NOVELS BY GEETANJALI SHREE AND ANIRUDDH UMATH कविता / POETRY - LARS LUNDKVIST / लार्श लुन्डक्विस्ट - MAMTA G SAGAR / ममता जी सागर - MATSYA / मत्स्या - MIRANHSHAH / मीरनशाह - NILIM KUMAR / नीलिम कुमार - SUNITI BHATT / सुनीति भट्ट - UDAYAN VAJPEYI / उदयन वाजपेयी कथेतर / NON-FICTION - हिन्दी साहित्य के पर्यावरण और एक स्त्री-लेखक पर गिरिराज किराडू / GIRIRAJ KIRADOO ON WOMEN WRITERS IN HINDI LITERARY ENVIRONMENT प्रतीक्षा में / Regards, Giriraj Kiradoo & Rahul Soni Shiv Kumar Gandhi (Editors) (Art Editor) गिरिराज किराडू एवं राहुल सोनी शिव कुमार गाँधी संपादक कला संपादक -- www.pratilipi.in ----Pratilipi is (for the time being) a completely non-commercial magazine running on the editors' investments and on the works of likeminded contributors. Pratilipi forbids itself nothing – except taking on a representational role on the web or catering to such expectations – and, hopefully, never will. From sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in Mon Apr 7 10:41:10 2008 From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in (S.Fatima) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 06:11:10 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] No Pizzas for Muslims (of Jamia Nagar) Message-ID: <632909.23204.qm@web8415.mail.in.yahoo.com> Fast-food chains don't deliver in Delhi's Muslim ghetto Fast-food chains like Domino's and McDonald's usually refuse home delivery in Jamia Nagar (in Delhi city)even though this dominantly Muslim neighbourhood, famed for its Jamia Islamia University, is close to their New Friends Colony (NFC) outlets. By the way, Jamia Nagar is not just another unplanned stinky ghetto--it has wide roads, spacious houses, and proper addresses. (See the story: Jamia Nagar - Delhi's Rich Muslim Ghetto) "We don't deliver there," was the reply when The Delhi Walla called up Domino's (011-26933951-56) at NFC. Different responses on different calls: "we are sorry", or "we haven't started our service there yet." Ditto with McDonald's. "There are areas we don't deliver to and Jamia Nagar is one of them," says the lady manning the McDelivery desk. According to McDonald's India North & East, "McDelivery ascertain the delivery area on various internal assessments including the convenience and safe accessibility of the area within the permissible timeframe." OK, fair enough. It takes less then 10 minutes to drive to Jamia Nagar from McDoanld's. So is the place not safe enough? An unusually forthcoming employee at Domino's said, "It's not a good area. We deliver there only to special customers." Who are these mysterious special customers? At least author Ms. Rakshanda Jalil, a Jamia Nagar resident who recently had luminaries like Khushwant Singh and Sheila Dikshit (Delhi Chief Minister no less) attending her book launch, is not special enough. She couldn't coax Domino's to deliver Veggie Delight with extra olives for her two daughters. "They go to faraway blocks of New Friends Colony and were delivering as far as Sarita Vihar but they won't come here which is closer", says Ms. Jalil. Now listen to the outlets' unofficial excuses: "customers there don't pay", "addresses are usually given wrong", and--this takes the pizza—"The Jamia University students forcibly take pizza boxes from delivery boys." Then why is Pizza Hut able to deliver, and deliver successfully, to Jamia Nagar? A quick phone call put things in perspective. Yes, Pizza Hut does deliver in Jamia Nagar. Yes, they have never faced problems. But sorry, they don't deliver after 7 pm. Reason? Traffic jam! Really? That's laughable. Jamia is essentially an university campus with verdant grounds and quiet libraries. Hardly the stuff traffic jams are made of. Ms. Jalil says, "Nobody uses the M word. But clearly, they don't go 'out there' because a different sort of species resides out there!" Achha, those Mussalmaans! ------------------- from: http://thedelhiwalla.blogspot.com/2008/04/dateline-jamia-nagar-no-pizzas-for.html Explore your hobbies and interests. Go to http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/ From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 12:34:26 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 13:04:26 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] No Pizza, No Cry Message-ID: The post about pizza in Jamia reminded me of a similar (but disconnected) topography vis-a-vis food deliveries & taxi rides to the inner city, black/latino dominated areas of New York. For a long time, black residents used to complain that Chinese restaurants and pizza parlors (often run by asian immigrants) would not deliver to their areas. I first started noticing this issue after talking to Domino's delivery boys (on bikes) in New York, many of whom are Bangali. The Bangalis would respond, "bhayya, you can say this is not right, but after being mugged three times on three deliveries, you will also not want to deliver there." Ironically, the most successful (and shit food) joints in the inner city seems to be the ubiquitous fried chinese joint, with its total encasing of bulletproof glass. New York taxi drivers have similar complaints against them-- of not wanting to make drop-offs to Harlem, etc. There was a famous incident of actor Danny Glover being refused to sit in front seat (drivers are afraid of getting mugged in that situation because there's no bulletproof glass divider there) after which he held a full-bore press conference and New York was abuzz with this topic for 3 weeks (after which, predictably, some sex scandal broke and it was all forgotten. I have heard two sides of this multi-prong debate. African-American friends who have millions of stories of taxis refusing to pick them up (the feeling of offense seems higher if they are a successful banker-- class trumps race, or not). South Asian taxi drivers who talk of how often they get mugged, and where they get mugged, and end by saying--> "if 75% of all taxi muggings happen north of 110th street, what do you ask me to do? be racially sensitive and risk getting killed? or be a racist and live". I have never known what could possibly be the tenable position to take in this whole debate. That South Asian migrants absorb the racism of the system they are making their way in is undeniable. But economic necessity and class warfare intersect and poison/muddy this debate as well. I feel that somewhere in all this is tenable progressive position, but not yet articulated. There are also books like TAXI! by Biju Matthews (New Press), that look at cabbies as the new exploited permanent underclass of New York. What a tragedy that this underclass has to failed to build any solidarity alliance with America's permanent african american underclass. The lack of unity came to the surface very quickly after 2001, when south asians became the new racial profiling target, and iTSA security jobs where often filled by african americans and latinos. Each minority community gains at the expense of another. Until of course the pendulum turns, again. It was only a decade ago that Vijay Prashad was asking in KARMA OF BROWN FOLK, inverting Dubois, to South Asians "how does it feel to be a solution?" That all seems hopelessly dated now. Fear and loathing in the big city... Message: 5 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 06:11:10 +0100 (BST) From: "S.Fatima" Subject: [Reader-list] No Pizzas for Muslims (of Jamia Nagar) To: sarai Message-ID: <632909.23204.qm at web8415.mail.in.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Fast-food chains don't deliver in Delhi's Muslim ghetto Fast-food chains like Domino's and McDonald's usually refuse home delivery in Jamia Nagar (in Delhi city)even though this dominantly Muslim neighbourhood, famed for its Jamia Islamia University, is close to their New Friends Colony (NFC) outlets. By the way, Jamia Nagar is not just another unplanned stinky ghetto--it has wide roads, spacious houses, and proper addresses. (See the story: Jamia Nagar - Delhi's Rich Muslim Ghetto) "We don't deliver there," was the reply when The Delhi Walla called up Domino's (011-26933951-56) at NFC. Different responses on different calls: "we are sorry", or "we haven't started our service there yet." Ditto with McDonald's. "There are areas we don't deliver to and Jamia Nagar is one of them," says the lady manning the McDelivery desk. According to McDonald's India North & East, "McDelivery ascertain the delivery area on various internal assessments including the convenience and safe accessibility of the area within the permissible timeframe." OK, fair enough. It takes less then 10 minutes to drive to Jamia Nagar from McDoanld's. So is the place not safe enough? An unusually forthcoming employee at Domino's said, "It's not a good area. We deliver there only to special customers." Who are these mysterious special customers? At least author Ms. Rakshanda Jalil, a Jamia Nagar resident who recently had luminaries like Khushwant Singh and Sheila Dikshit (Delhi Chief Minister no less) attending her book launch, is not special enough. She couldn't coax Domino's to deliver Veggie Delight with extra olives for her two daughters. "They go to faraway blocks of New Friends Colony and were delivering as far as Sarita Vihar but they won't come here which is closer", says Ms. Jalil. Now listen to the outlets' unofficial excuses: "customers there don't pay", "addresses are usually given wrong", and--this takes the pizza—"The Jamia University students forcibly take pizza boxes from delivery boys." Then why is Pizza Hut able to deliver, and deliver successfully, to Jamia Nagar? A quick phone call put things in perspective. Yes, Pizza Hut does deliver in Jamia Nagar. Yes, they have never faced problems. But sorry, they don't deliver after 7 pm. Reason? Traffic jam! Really? That's laughable. Jamia is essentially an university campus with verdant grounds and quiet libraries. Hardly the stuff traffic jams are made of. Ms. Jalil says, "Nobody uses the M word. But clearly, they don't go 'out there' because a different sort of species resides out there!" Achha, those Mussalmaans! ------------------- from: http://thedelhiwalla.blogspot.com/2008/04/dateline-jamia-nagar-no-pizzas-for.html From shuddha at sarai.net Mon Apr 7 18:53:35 2008 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 18:53:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fear and Loathing in Big Cities Message-ID: Dear Fatima, Naeem dear all, Thanks for your posts on pizza delivery and fear and loathing in big cities, and how New York and New Delhi, when it comes to the sharp edge of exclusion, can seem like shadows of each other. I recently saw something in the Delhi edition of the Indian Express that I think would be of interest to the ensuing discussion. Its about a wall. No, Its not in Palestine, but in South Delhi. I thought it would echo (from a different angle) some of the thoughts being expressed in Naeem and Fatima's posts. best Shuddha --------------------------------------- Great Wall of Kalkaji Preeti Jha, Indian Express Posted online: Saturday , April 05, 2008 at 11:51:20 http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Great-Wall-of-Kalkaji/292736/ New Delhi, April 04 Construction of a five-foot wall to divide a slum cluster from neighbouring middle-class colonies is wreaking havoc in south Delhi’s Kalkaji Extension. Standing in the remnants of her grocery store, Seema Sagar watches as a young boy jumps from one mound of debris to another, before precariously balancing on a stray brick. All this to safely cross the stream of sewage that now floats outside her house. On Monday, bulldozers razed down more than 1,000 small shops and homes to make way for a wall that will encircle all three camps in the slum cluster: Bhumiheen, Nehru and Navjeevan. Four hundred metres of the proposed 2-km wall are already in place, under construction by the Delhi Development Authority (DDA) since December. “We are acting on an order from the High Court,” says DDA’s executive engineer K K Khanna. And the High Court was responding to a petition filed by Arsh Avtaar Singh, former president of Kohinoor Apartments’ Resident Welfare Association, in May 2005. The petition sought a solution against encroachment of roads and services by slum residents. ‘Block them out’ Neighbouring middle-class colonies support Singh’s efforts. A flat- owner from nearby Konark Apartments, who does not want to be named, says: “All my life savings have been used to purchase this flat. For 22 years I have lived with the stink from open defecation, and constant over-crowding from blocked roads.” Residents want slum dwellers to be relocated in ‘pukka’ housing. “I feel bad for them,” says Singh, whose own domestic help lives in Bhumiheen Camp. “They should be given an alternative home immediately.” But the DDA claims it needs time to relocate the slum dwellers. “The wall is a temporary arrangement to offer protection to flat owners,” Khanna says. In the interim, Daliwal thinks the wall should be built higher. “It should be at least eight foot high, and built either with bricks, or grills and mesh. There should also be fewer outlets.” ‘Livelihood gone’ The camp’s residents, though, are fuming. “We were given no warning,” says Sagar. She claims to have bought her grocery shop for Rs 20,000 rupees 13 years ago. “I make Rs 50 a day, through which I cook for my family. We have nothing to eat today without my shop.” Trying to salvage broken chairs and cutlery from his former confectionery store, Izhar Ali asks, “What should I do to earn? Can the government give me an alternative?” As an MCD employee sprays mosquito repellent into stagnant water forming pools around the newly homeless, Kamla Ujhain forlornly watches her grandchildren eat in what used to be a bathroom. “We knew it would close our businesses,” says Maya Devi, peering outside her shop, now shrouded by bricks. “And what if there’s a fire?” asks another shopkeeper, Naresh Kumar. “It will be much harder to escape if we are contained from all sides.” DDA’s Khanna, meanwhile, insists there will be several entry and exit points in the wall. “There are more than 17 gaps in the 400-metre stretch built so far,” he says. DDA has a May 21 deadline for building the wall. Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Mon Apr 7 19:02:07 2008 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 06:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Navreh Celebrations-Invitation In-Reply-To: <13df7c120804040131j385ae475y7337de1f2dc40744@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <258568.60788.qm@web45506.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Wishing you all a happy and prosporous Navreh to my kasmiri friends and new year wishes to the rest. This chitra will bring more deligh into the lives with NIMBA PUSHPA(NEEM FLOWER) PICKLE mixed with other 5 tastes. rashneek kher wrote: "*Roots in Kashmir*" in association with "*Kashmiri Sewak Samaj,Faridabad*" invites your presence on the Navreh (Kashmiri New Year) Celebrations on 6th of April,07. Renowned Kashmiri singer Kailash Mehra will enthrall the audiences with her mesmerizing voice. Others who will perform are Ravi Bhan(Light Kashmiri Classical and Sufiana Music),Sanjeev Raina"Gautam"(Traditional Kashmiri Folk-Chakri and Leela),Priyanka Patwari(Indian Classical Dance-Bharatnatyam). The Celebrations and Prayers shall continue all night till the arrival of the first rays of Sun on 7th April,08. *Venue:* Hari Parvat Anangpur Village,Faridabad. *Time* from 2.30 PM onwards on 6th April,07 Anangpur is a small village,nestled between the Aravalis.A small by lane almost 1km ahead of Surajkund (on the Firing Range Road)takes you to the village.Atop the hillock,near the Anangpur Village,Faridabad,rests the replica of the temple of Sharika(the presiding deity of Kashmir). For any information please feel free to contact me at 9810049979. Best Regards - Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Mon Apr 7 19:52:16 2008 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 07:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition In-Reply-To: <32144e990803260907v50c3713ne24e3cf669c462f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <752639.98127.qm@web45510.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Dear Partha, HAPPY NEW YEAR! As I was busy with some matters, I am unable to respond your mail. My mail was very much related to the debate, as this is a response to radhikarajen mail. Next on your points, >>a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to Kashmir (which can only happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) or living in a hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking for death. First and foremost please avoid the term MIGRATION within INDIA. Kashmiri Pundits do have exclusive rights over KASHMIR because its their birth place, since their ancestors. No body can do anything over this! >>b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being oblivious to everything else will solve anything. Its nothing to do with my feeling or your feeling, but the actual scenario is entirely different there and it is because of JIHAD and its supporters. Even RAMA,KRISHNA killed RAKHASAS. Emperors,kings whoever ruled INDIA from EPIC AGE TO MODERN did the same. Irrespective of time RAKSHASAS SHOULD BE KILLED. Dhatri. Partha Dasgupta wrote: Dear Dhatri, As usual, you have completely ignored the debate and gone off on an unrelated tangent. All that we are clarifying here is: a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to Kashmir (which can only happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) or living in a hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking for death. b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being oblivious to everything else will solve anything. Rgds, Partha ............................................. On 3/26/08, we wi wrote: Dear All, Though I am not a great personality to talk about HISTORY, PAST and interested as well, but If I ask a very basic question with mere innocence over this >>Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault lines as all of us, reluctantly >>agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus Pakistan was born as free India >>emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS THE NATION, WHICH SAW THE >>SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND MUSLIMS, >>SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? What happen if late Mr.M.K.Gandhi disagrees for the division of the nation on faith? Let us discuss pros and cons over this. Probably the same amount of casualties (after Partition) could have happened as a result of disagreement, but they are for time being (i.e., once and for all) only. There should not be any troubles, whatever the country (I MEAN INDIA AS A NATION) has been suffering and facing (since 60 years) from all directions. I would like to question MUSLIM LEAGUE ROLE over SUB-CONTINENT INDEPENDENCE, their leaders' sacrifices as that of ... (as there are in-numerous HINDU patriots, I could not mention just one or 2). It is clear that Mr. JINNAH AND HIS PUPPETS with cunning BRITISH BACK ENJOYED/ENTHRALLED the POWER and LAND freely. If 2 nation theory failed so utterly why was a SEPARATE COUNTRY CALLED PAKISTAN IS STILL SURVIVING with OCCUPIED, GIFTED INDIAN TERRITORIES TO CHINA? --Coming back to late Mr. JAWAHARLAL NEHRU, 1) HE DIDN'T HAIL FROM ANY DYNASTY. LIKE EVERY FATHER, HIS FATHER SENT HIM TO LONDON FOR HIGHER STUDIES. THE RICHNESS COMES FROM HIS FATHERS' THEN PROFESSION. AS HE WAS INTELLIGENT, HE FLOURISHED IN STUDIES AND IN POLITICS AS WELL. WHAT WE believe a) LATE Mr. NEHRU WAS CHEATED BY EVERYBODY (BRITISH, FRIENDS, SECULARISTS, INTELLECTUALS AND THEN CHINA) like India WAS CHEATED AND ROBBED BY INVADERS. How? As a CASTE RIDDEN INDIAN SOCIETY (WHY RACISM WAS IS SO POPULAR IN WESTERN WORLD. Where does it come from? ARE THEY JUST STEAL it from India after invasions like anything? Why did they fail to eradicate it?) AND NOBODY WILLING TO LOOSE THEIR CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS, Why late Mr. NEHRU was chosen/influenced to give away his daughter, INDIRAPRIYADARSINI to a PARSI BRIDEGROOM? Is Mr.M.K.GANDHI or Mr.JINNAH feared to do so (As both were having sons and daughters)? What was then SOCIETY (INTELLECTUAL OR ORDINARY) silent and play a spectators role over this? --Finally What Mr. Nehru did to whom? Entire India starting from school going kids to 110 year old know about his vision, his plans and his burning desire for the Country AND ITS DEVELOPMENT. If we talk about the world starting from CHINA to the country that ANY BODY mention, The universe know and if they have conscious they remember HIM and pray with FOLDED HANDS. I hope none of you feel, contradict and murmur if I quote, Too err is human, and what if late Mr. Nehru err in few cases if any (anybody point or feel) after all Mr. Nehru too a human. Late Mr. Nehru ruled INDIA as per the constitution written under the stewardship of Mr. Ambedkar in a better way as that of any body all times. (Of course Indirapriyadarsini as well). Regards, Dhatri. radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote: Hi, all. All said and done, let us not forget that Mohandas Karamchand gandhi was as human as all of us, and he had greater vision of free India which did not include divided national boundaries on the faith, and Nethaji Subhash was popularly elected president of then plenary session of Indian national Congress, in 1939, it is different matter that " High Command " then chose Jawahar Nehru to be president., over the popular choice of nethaji. Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault lines as all of us, reluctantly agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus Pakistan was born as free India emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS THE NATION, WHICH SAW THE SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND MUSLIMS, SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? THIRDLY,GANDHIJI WAS IN FREE iNDIA NEVER ASPIRED FOR ANY POWER OR POSITION lIKE NEHRU WHO WANTED TO SIDELINE EVERYBODY AND BE prime minister HIMSELF. His greed for position and favour and nepotism and dynastical fervour is seen in free India. Gandhiji never "helped" his progeny to be "leaders" like the Rajeevs and Indiras of nehru dynasty All said and done, Gandhiji was good human, with good morals and ethics unlike his betenoire, Nehru, debauch, selfish, never cared for kashmiri displaced brothers. Regards.. From: we wi Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:38 pm Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition To: Partha Dasgupta , Pawan Durani Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > Partha, > > Mahatma gandhi was in 1900 around and this is 2000. Kindly > note the difference in everything. > > >>>a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or otherwise. I > just follow > >>>what I believe is right. > > What if somebody or everybody feel wrong about that. Will you > reconsider it or still proceed in the same way. Whatever be the > case you must be either intellectual or an idiot. I really sorry > to say this. > > >>>b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only > breed hate and > >>>more violence and can not be a solution. > > "violence is the only solution for violence." > you should question both quarreling parties instead of asking > only one. Listen their answers understand them and then start > believing anything. > > >>>d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, what I do > or profess to > >>>here is not to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone on this > list except my cousin > >>>who introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who thinks > what of me. > >>>Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and > engaging in a > >>>debate when I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > What do your cousin feel about youself??? > > JAI HIND INDIA. > > Regards, > Dhatri. > > Partha Dasgupta wrote: > Pawan, > > a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or otherwise. I just > followwhat I believe is right. > > b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only breed > hate and > more violence and > can not be a solution. > > c) I have no idea what 'filth' you refer to about Asit (presume > that is > 'AsitRed'). However, > must admit that I rarely read what he writes as he writes in a block > without > punctuation or paras that I find impossible to comprehend. > > d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, what I do or > profess to > here is not > to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone on this list except my > cousinwho > introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who thinks what of me. > Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and engaging > in a > debate when > I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > e) Why do you always by-pass the point in contention - that is - > are you > proposing that > the solution to Yasin Malik and the violence in J&K is more > violence - > because that is > what is coming out from your responses and your avoiding the moot > pointof the debate. > > Rgds, Partha > ..................... > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Pawan Durani > > wrote: > > > Partha , > > > > Among many Pseudo secular over here , i still continued to trust > you to > > some extent. However I must admit that you too ,like others in > the bunch, > > maintain double standards. > > > > You had no words when the Asit ( Lal Salaam) , writes filth against > > Kashmiri Hindus , while as you always seem to be ready at the > start up line > > of 100 mts once Kashmiri Muslim terrorists are discussed. > > > > Disappointed ! > > > > Pawan > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > wrote: > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > That still doesn't answer the question: Do you think that the only > > > response to violence should be violence? > > > > > > Because, if so, there will never be an end to the struggle - > just more > > > death and hate. > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > ................... > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Pawan Durani > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > And neither Have Kashmiri Hindus ever believed in Violence > ......But> > > again we have no love for a Psycopath killer like > Yasine> > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you are not saying that because you consider > Yasin Malik a > > > > > "killer/terrorist" that the only language he will > understand is your > > > > > shooting / killing him in the same manner. > > > > > > > > > > Do try and remember that the nation of India achieved it's > freedom> > > > through Mahatma Gandhi who did NOT fight back with > violence. One of the > > > > > reasons he's considered the "Father of the Nation'... > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Pawan Durani < > > > > > pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > And what manner of protest would a killer /terrorist > understand ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Just Curious ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/08, Partha Dasgupta > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know about the feet licking part (always > considered it > > > > > > > unhygienic), > > > > > > > however, I do like the idea of peace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you don't disagree with the concept of peace > in J&K? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the "piece of mind" bit - well, that's > something all > > > > > > > public figures > > > > > > > have to live with - some people agree and some don't. > If it > > > > > > > makes you > > > > > > > happier to see people fighting and shouting, then I would > > > > > > > certainly disagree > > > > > > > in the manner of protest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul < > > > > > > > kauladityaraj at gmail.com> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God Bless Terrorist Yasin Malik of JKLF - The > organiser of > > > > > > > this session of > > > > > > > > brainwashing. May God as well bless people who lick > his feet > > > > > > > in Delhi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Your Information, Yasin was given a good piece > of mind > > > > > > > inside and > > > > > > > > outside the venue of the India Today Conclave 2008 > where he > > > > > > > was a guest > > > > > > > > speaker. For more information and pictures; visit: > > > > > > > > www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/08, inder salim wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > > > > > > From: S. Jabbar > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 1:49 PM > > > > > > > > > Subject: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > > > > > > > > > To: sheba > > > > > > > > > Cc: Binalakshmi Nepram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > JKLF presents: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Voices of Peace, Voices of Freedom > > > > > > > > > Photo and video exhibition of JKLFs Historic 114 day > > > > > > > > > nonviolent march through the valley of Kashmir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: March 19,2008. > > > > > > > > > Time: 11 am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venue: Indian Social Institute, > > > > > > > > > 10 Institutional Area > > > > > > > > > Lodi Road > > > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maqbool Manzil,Maisooma,Srinagar, > > > > > > > > > Contact:2474882-2481844, > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklfkashmir.org > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklf.org.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - -- > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > city.> > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > List archive: > list/>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > -- > Partha Dasgupta > +919811047132 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: > > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Yahoo! Search. > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. From parthaekka at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 21:41:47 2008 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 21:41:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition In-Reply-To: <752639.98127.qm@web45510.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <32144e990803260907v50c3713ne24e3cf669c462f@mail.gmail.com> <752639.98127.qm@web45510.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32144e990804070911h65c27fdax302e0d90d12b39e7@mail.gmail.com> Dear Dhatri, a) On the issue of 'Kashmiri Migrants' I would suggest you check the Govt site which just happens to be the official site of the J&K Govt - and the phrase is used a number of times - officially. Unless, of course, you have started a unique dictionary of your own. b) From your phrasing, it seems you are in support of Jihad, and killing. Do confirm if this is true, and who/how will you define your 'Rakshas' c) If you had read Radhikarajen's mail, you would have seen the point that was being made instead of going off on right angles about Gandhiji and the Muslim League. Rgds, Partha ........................ On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:52 PM, we wi wrote: > Dear Partha, > > HAPPY NEW YEAR! > > As I was busy with some matters, I am unable to respond your mail. > My mail was very much related to the debate, as this is a response to > radhikarajen mail. > > Next on your points, > > >>a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to Kashmir (which > can only > happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) or living in > a > hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking for death. > > First and foremost please avoid the term MIGRATION within INDIA. Kashmiri > Pundits do have exclusive rights over KASHMIR because its their birth > place, since their ancestors. No body can do anything over this! > > >>b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being > oblivious to everything > else will solve anything. > > > Its nothing to do with my feeling or your feeling, but the actual scenario > is entirely different there and it is because of JIHAD and its > supporters. Even RAMA,KRISHNA killed RAKHASAS. Emperors,kings whoever > ruled INDIA from EPIC AGE TO MODERN did > the same. Irrespective of time RAKSHASAS SHOULD BE KILLED. > > > Dhatri. > > *Partha Dasgupta * wrote: > > Dear Dhatri, > > As usual, you have completely ignored the debate and gone off on an > unrelated tangent. > > All that we are clarifying here is: > > a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to Kashmir (which > can only > happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) or living in > a > hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking for death. > > b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being oblivious > to everything > else will solve anything. > > Rgds, Partha > ............................................. > > On 3/26/08, we wi wrote: > > > > Dear All, > > > > Though I am not a great personality to talk about HISTORY, PAST and > > interested as well, but If I ask a very basic question with mere innocence > > over this > > > > >>Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault lines as all of > > us, reluctantly > > >>agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus Pakistan was > > born as free India > > >>emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS THE NATION, WHICH SAW > > THE > > >>SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND MUSLIMS, > > > > >>SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? > > > > What happen if late Mr.M.K.Gandhi disagrees for the division of the > > nation on faith? > > Let us discuss pros and cons over this. Probably the same amount of > > casualties (after Partition) could have happened as a result of > > disagreement, but they are for time being (i.e., once and for all) only. > > There should not be any troubles, whatever the country (I MEAN INDIA AS A > > NATION) has been suffering and facing (since 60 years) from all > > directions. > > > > I would like to question MUSLIM LEAGUE ROLE over SUB-CONTINENT > > INDEPENDENCE, their leaders' sacrifices as that of ... (as there > > are in-numerous HINDU patriots, I could not mention just one or 2). It is > > clear that Mr. JINNAH AND HIS PUPPETS with cunning BRITISH BACK > > ENJOYED/ENTHRALLED the POWER and LAND freely. If 2 nation theory failed so > > utterly why was a SEPARATE COUNTRY CALLED PAKISTAN IS STILL SURVIVING with > > OCCUPIED, GIFTED INDIAN TERRITORIES TO CHINA? > > > > --Coming back to late Mr. JAWAHARLAL NEHRU, > > > > 1) HE DIDN'T HAIL FROM ANY DYNASTY. LIKE EVERY FATHER, HIS > > FATHER SENT HIM TO LONDON FOR HIGHER STUDIES. THE RICHNESS COMES FROM HIS > > FATHERS' THEN PROFESSION. AS HE WAS INTELLIGENT, HE FLOURISHED IN STUDIES > > AND IN POLITICS AS WELL. WHAT WE believe > > > > a) LATE Mr. NEHRU WAS CHEATED BY EVERYBODY (BRITISH, FRIENDS, > > SECULARISTS, INTELLECTUALS AND THEN CHINA) like India WAS CHEATED AND ROBBED > > BY INVADERS. How? > > > > > > As a CASTE RIDDEN INDIAN SOCIETY (WHY RACISM WAS IS SO POPULAR IN > > WESTERN WORLD. Where does it come from? ARE THEY JUST STEAL it from India > > after invasions like anything? Why did they fail to eradicate it?) AND > > NOBODY WILLING TO LOOSE THEIR CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS, > > > > Why late Mr. NEHRU was chosen/influenced to give away his daughter, > > INDIRAPRIYADARSINI to a PARSI BRIDEGROOM? Is Mr.M.K.GANDHI or > > Mr.JINNAH feared to do so (As both were having sons and daughters)? What > > was then SOCIETY (INTELLECTUAL OR ORDINARY) silent and play a spectators > > role over this? > > > > --Finally What Mr. Nehru did to whom? > > > > Entire India starting from school going kids to 110 year old know about > > his vision, his plans and his burning desire for the Country AND ITS > > DEVELOPMENT. If we talk about the world starting from CHINA to the country > > that ANY BODY mention, The universe know and if they have conscious they > > remember HIM and pray with FOLDED HANDS. > > > > I hope none of you feel, contradict and murmur if I quote, > > Too err is human, and what if late Mr. Nehru err in few cases if any > > (anybody point or feel) after all Mr. Nehru too a human. Late Mr. Nehru > > ruled INDIA as per the constitution written under the stewardship of Mr. > > Ambedkar in a better way as that of any body all times. (Of course > > Indirapriyadarsini as well). > > > > Regards, > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > > > *radhikarajen at vsnl.net* wrote: > > > > Hi, all. > > > > All said and done, let us not forget that Mohandas Karamchand gandhi was > > as human as all of us, and he had greater vision of free India which did not > > include divided national boundaries on the faith, and Nethaji Subhash was > > popularly elected president of then plenary session of Indian national > > Congress, in 1939, it is different matter that " High Command " then chose > > Jawahar Nehru to be president., over the popular choice of nethaji. > > > > Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault lines as all of us, > > reluctantly agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus Pakistan was > > born as free India emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS THE NATION, WHICH > > SAW THE SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND MUSLIMS, > > SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? > > > > THIRDLY,GANDHIJI WAS IN FREE iNDIA NEVER ASPIRED FOR ANY POWER OR > > POSITION lIKE NEHRU WHO WANTED TO SIDELINE EVERYBODY AND BE prime minister > > HIMSELF. His greed for position and favour and nepotism and dynastical > > fervour is seen in free India. > > Gandhiji never "helped" his progeny to be "leaders" like the Rajeevs and > > Indiras of nehru dynasty All said and done, Gandhiji was good human, with > > good morals and ethics unlike his betenoire, Nehru, debauch, selfish, never > > cared for kashmiri displaced brothers. > > Regards.. > > From: we wi > > Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:38 pm > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > > To: Partha Dasgupta , Pawan Durani > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > > > > Partha, > > > > > > Mahatma gandhi was in 1900 around and this is 2000. Kindly > > > note the difference in everything. > > > > > > >>>a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or otherwise. I > > > just follow > > > >>>what I believe is right. > > > > > > What if somebody or everybody feel wrong about that. Will you > > > reconsider it or still proceed in the same way. Whatever be the > > > case you must be either intellectual or an idiot. I really sorry > > > to say this. > > > > > > >>>b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only > > > breed hate and > > > >>>more violence and can not be a solution. > > > > > > "violence is the only solution for violence." > > > you should question both quarreling parties instead of asking > > > only one. Listen their answers understand them and then start > > > believing anything. > > > > > > >>>d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, what I do > > > or profess to > > > >>>here is not to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone on this > > > list except my cousin > > > >>>who introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who thinks > > > what of me. > > > >>>Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and > > > engaging in a > > > >>>debate when I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > > > > > What do your cousin feel about youself??? > > > > > > JAI HIND INDIA. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > > Pawan, > > > > > > a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or otherwise. I just > > > followwhat I believe is right. > > > > > > b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only breed > > > hate and > > > more violence and > > > can not be a solution. > > > > > > c) I have no idea what 'filth' you refer to about Asit (presume > > > that is > > > 'AsitRed'). However, > > > must admit that I rarely read what he writes as he writes in a block > > > without > > > punctuation or paras that I find impossible to comprehend. > > > > > > d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, what I do or > > > profess to > > > here is not > > > to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone on this list except my > > > cousinwho > > > introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who thinks what of me. > > > Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and engaging > > > in a > > > debate when > > > I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > > > > > e) Why do you always by-pass the point in contention - that is - > > > are you > > > proposing that > > > the solution to Yasin Malik and the violence in J&K is more > > > violence - > > > because that is > > > what is coming out from your responses and your avoiding the moot > > > pointof the debate. > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > ..................... > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Pawan Durani > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Partha , > > > > > > > > Among many Pseudo secular over here , i still continued to trust > > > you to > > > > some extent. However I must admit that you too ,like others in > > > the bunch, > > > > maintain double standards. > > > > > > > > You had no words when the Asit ( Lal Salaam) , writes filth against > > > > Kashmiri Hindus , while as you always seem to be ready at the > > > start up line > > > > of 100 mts once Kashmiri Muslim terrorists are discussed. > > > > > > > > Disappointed ! > > > > > > > > Pawan > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > That still doesn't answer the question: Do you think that the only > > > > > response to violence should be violence? > > > > > > > > > > Because, if so, there will never be an end to the struggle - > > > just more > > > > > death and hate. > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > ................... > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > And neither Have Kashmiri Hindus ever believed in Violence > > > ......But> > > again we have no love for a Psycopath killer like > > > Yasine> > > > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you are not saying that because you consider > > > Yasin Malik a > > > > > > > "killer/terrorist" that the only language he will > > > understand is your > > > > > > > shooting / killing him in the same manner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do try and remember that the nation of India achieved it's > > > freedom> > > > through Mahatma Gandhi who did NOT fight back with > > > violence. One of the > > > > > > > reasons he's considered the "Father of the Nation'... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Pawan Durani < > > > > > > > pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what manner of protest would a killer /terrorist > > > understand ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just Curious ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know about the feet licking part (always > > > considered it > > > > > > > > > unhygienic), > > > > > > > > > however, I do like the idea of peace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you don't disagree with the concept of peace > > > in J&K? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the "piece of mind" bit - well, that's > > > something all > > > > > > > > > public figures > > > > > > > > > have to live with - some people agree and some don't. > > > If it > > > > > > > > > makes you > > > > > > > > > happier to see people fighting and shouting, then I would > > > > > > > > > certainly disagree > > > > > > > > > in the manner of protest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul < > > > > > > > > > kauladityaraj at gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God Bless Terrorist Yasin Malik of JKLF - The > > > organiser of > > > > > > > > > this session of > > > > > > > > > > brainwashing. May God as well bless people who lick > > > his feet > > > > > > > > > in Delhi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Your Information, Yasin was given a good piece > > > of mind > > > > > > > > > inside and > > > > > > > > > > outside the venue of the India Today Conclave 2008 > > > where he > > > > > > > > > was a guest > > > > > > > > > > speaker. For more information and pictures; visit: > > > > > > > > > > www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/08, inder salim wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > From: S. Jabbar > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 1:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > > > > > > > > > > > To: sheba > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: Binalakshmi Nepram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > JKLF presents: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Voices of Peace, Voices of Freedom > > > > > > > > > > > Photo and video exhibition of JKLFs Historic 114 day > > > > > > > > > > > nonviolent march through the valley of Kashmir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: March 19,2008. > > > > > > > > > > > Time: 11 am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venue: Indian Social Institute, > > > > > > > > > > > 10 Institutional Area > > > > > > > > > > > Lodi Road > > > > > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maqbool Manzil,Maisooma,Srinagar, > > > > > > > > > > > Contact:2474882-2481844, > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklfkashmir.org > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklf.org.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - -- > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > the city. > > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > the city. > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > city.> > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > List archive: > list/>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > +919811047132 > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > > list > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > > > Yahoo! Search. > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > > list > > > List archive: > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > > > > > -- > Partha Dasgupta > +919811047132 > > > ------------------------------ > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster > Total Access, > No Cost. -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 22:07:42 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 22:07:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition In-Reply-To: <32144e990804070911h65c27fdax302e0d90d12b39e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <32144e990803260907v50c3713ne24e3cf669c462f@mail.gmail.com> <752639.98127.qm@web45510.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <32144e990804070911h65c27fdax302e0d90d12b39e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690804070937x50e2dc60h5597fe26f3a5046@mail.gmail.com> Partha or anybody else, Dare you call us all victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing - "Kashmiri Migrants". We didn't leave by our own will nor did we go out in search of livelihood. It was a forced migration due to sudden rise of Islamic Fundamentalism and violence. And if you really want to get enligtened read the various Article's of United Nations. We do qualify to be Internally Displaced People (IDP's). Hope you understand that. May God Bless you on the first day of Navreh (Kashmiri Pandit New Year) Regards Aditya Raj Kaul Campaign Blog - www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com On 4/7/08, Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > Dear Dhatri, > > a) On the issue of 'Kashmiri Migrants' I would suggest you check the > Govt > site which just happens > to be the official site of the J&K Govt - and the phrase is used a > number > of times - officially. Unless, of course, you have started a unique > dictionary > of your own. > > b) From your phrasing, it seems you are in support of Jihad, and killing. > Do confirm if this is true, and who/how will you define your 'Rakshas' > > c) If you had read Radhikarajen's mail, you would have seen the point > that > was being made instead of going off on right angles about Gandhiji and > the Muslim League. > > Rgds, Partha > ........................ > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:52 PM, we wi wrote: > > > Dear Partha, > > > > HAPPY NEW YEAR! > > > > As I was busy with some matters, I am unable to respond your mail. > > My mail was very much related to the debate, as this is a response to > > radhikarajen mail. > > > > Next on your points, > > > > >>a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to Kashmir > (which > > can only > > happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) or living > in > > a > > hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking for death. > > > > First and foremost please avoid the term MIGRATION within > INDIA. Kashmiri > > Pundits do have exclusive rights over KASHMIR because its their birth > > place, since their ancestors. No body can do anything over this! > > > > >>b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being > > oblivious to everything > > else will solve anything. > > > > > > Its nothing to do with my feeling or your feeling, but the actual > scenario > > is entirely different there and it is because of JIHAD and its > > supporters. Even RAMA,KRISHNA killed RAKHASAS. Emperors,kings whoever > > ruled INDIA from EPIC AGE TO MODERN > did > > the same. Irrespective of time RAKSHASAS SHOULD BE KILLED. > > > > > > Dhatri. > > > > *Partha Dasgupta * wrote: > > > > Dear Dhatri, > > > > As usual, you have completely ignored the debate and gone off on an > > unrelated tangent. > > > > All that we are clarifying here is: > > > > a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to Kashmir (which > > can only > > happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) or living > in > > a > > hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking for death. > > > > b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being > oblivious > > to everything > > else will solve anything. > > > > Rgds, Partha > > ............................................. > > > > On 3/26/08, we wi wrote: > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > Though I am not a great personality to talk about HISTORY, PAST and > > > interested as well, but If I ask a very basic question with mere > innocence > > > over this > > > > > > >>Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault lines as all > of > > > us, reluctantly > > > >>agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus Pakistan was > > > born as free India > > > >>emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS THE NATION, WHICH SAW > > > THE > > > >>SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND > MUSLIMS, > > > > > > >>SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? > > > > > > What happen if late Mr.M.K.Gandhi disagrees for the division of > the > > > nation on faith? > > > Let us discuss pros and cons over this. Probably the same amount of > > > casualties (after Partition) could have happened as a result of > > > disagreement, but they are for time being (i.e., once and for all) > only. > > > There should not be any troubles, whatever the country (I MEAN INDIA > AS A > > > NATION) has been suffering and facing (since 60 years) from all > > > directions. > > > > > > I would like to question MUSLIM LEAGUE ROLE over SUB-CONTINENT > > > INDEPENDENCE, their leaders' sacrifices as that of ... (as there > > > are in-numerous HINDU patriots, I could not mention just one or > 2). It is > > > clear that Mr. JINNAH AND HIS PUPPETS with cunning BRITISH BACK > > > ENJOYED/ENTHRALLED the POWER and LAND freely. If 2 nation theory > failed so > > > utterly why was a SEPARATE COUNTRY CALLED PAKISTAN IS STILL SURVIVING > with > > > OCCUPIED, GIFTED INDIAN TERRITORIES TO CHINA? > > > > > > --Coming back to late Mr. JAWAHARLAL NEHRU, > > > > > > 1) HE DIDN'T HAIL FROM ANY DYNASTY. LIKE EVERY FATHER, HIS > > > FATHER SENT HIM TO LONDON FOR HIGHER STUDIES. THE RICHNESS COMES FROM > HIS > > > FATHERS' THEN PROFESSION. AS HE WAS INTELLIGENT, HE FLOURISHED IN > STUDIES > > > AND IN POLITICS AS WELL. WHAT WE believe > > > > > > a) LATE Mr. NEHRU WAS CHEATED BY EVERYBODY (BRITISH, FRIENDS, > > > SECULARISTS, INTELLECTUALS AND THEN CHINA) like India WAS CHEATED AND > ROBBED > > > BY INVADERS. How? > > > > > > > > > As a CASTE RIDDEN INDIAN SOCIETY (WHY RACISM WAS IS SO POPULAR IN > > > WESTERN WORLD. Where does it come from? ARE THEY JUST STEAL it from > India > > > after invasions like anything? Why did they fail to eradicate it?) > AND > > > NOBODY WILLING TO LOOSE THEIR CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS, > > > > > > Why late Mr. NEHRU was chosen/influenced to give away his daughter, > > > INDIRAPRIYADARSINI to a PARSI BRIDEGROOM? Is Mr.M.K.GANDHI or > > > Mr.JINNAH feared to do so (As both were having sons and > daughters)? What > > > was then SOCIETY (INTELLECTUAL OR ORDINARY) silent and play a > spectators > > > role over this? > > > > > > --Finally What Mr. Nehru did to whom? > > > > > > Entire India starting from school going kids to 110 year old know > about > > > his vision, his plans and his burning desire for the Country AND ITS > > > DEVELOPMENT. If we talk about the world starting from CHINA to the > country > > > that ANY BODY mention, The universe know and if they have conscious > they > > > remember HIM and pray with FOLDED HANDS. > > > > > > I hope none of you feel, contradict and murmur if I quote, > > > Too err is human, and what if late Mr. Nehru err in few cases if any > > > (anybody point or feel) after all Mr. Nehru too a human. Late Mr. > Nehru > > > ruled INDIA as per the constitution written under the stewardship of > Mr. > > > Ambedkar in a better way as that of any body all times. (Of course > > > Indirapriyadarsini as well). > > > > > > Regards, > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *radhikarajen at vsnl.net* wrote: > > > > > > Hi, all. > > > > > > All said and done, let us not forget that Mohandas Karamchand gandhi > was > > > as human as all of us, and he had greater vision of free India which > did not > > > include divided national boundaries on the faith, and Nethaji Subhash > was > > > popularly elected president of then plenary session of Indian national > > > Congress, in 1939, it is different matter that " High Command " then > chose > > > Jawahar Nehru to be president., over the popular choice of nethaji. > > > > > > Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault lines as all of us, > > > reluctantly agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus Pakistan > was > > > born as free India emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS THE NATION, > WHICH > > > SAW THE SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND > MUSLIMS, > > > SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? > > > > > > THIRDLY,GANDHIJI WAS IN FREE iNDIA NEVER ASPIRED FOR ANY POWER OR > > > POSITION lIKE NEHRU WHO WANTED TO SIDELINE EVERYBODY AND BE prime > minister > > > HIMSELF. His greed for position and favour and nepotism and dynastical > > > fervour is seen in free India. > > > Gandhiji never "helped" his progeny to be "leaders" like the Rajeevs > and > > > Indiras of nehru dynasty All said and done, Gandhiji was good human, > with > > > good morals and ethics unlike his betenoire, Nehru, debauch, selfish, > never > > > cared for kashmiri displaced brothers. > > > Regards.. > > > From: we wi > > > Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:38 pm > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > > > To: Partha Dasgupta , Pawan Durani > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > > > > > > Partha, > > > > > > > > Mahatma gandhi was in 1900 around and this is 2000. Kindly > > > > note the difference in everything. > > > > > > > > >>>a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or otherwise. I > > > > just follow > > > > >>>what I believe is right. > > > > > > > > What if somebody or everybody feel wrong about that. Will you > > > > reconsider it or still proceed in the same way. Whatever be the > > > > case you must be either intellectual or an idiot. I really sorry > > > > to say this. > > > > > > > > >>>b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only > > > > breed hate and > > > > >>>more violence and can not be a solution. > > > > > > > > "violence is the only solution for violence." > > > > you should question both quarreling parties instead of asking > > > > only one. Listen their answers understand them and then start > > > > believing anything. > > > > > > > > >>>d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, what I do > > > > or profess to > > > > >>>here is not to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone on this > > > > list except my cousin > > > > >>>who introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who thinks > > > > what of me. > > > > >>>Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and > > > > engaging in a > > > > >>>debate when I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > > > > > > > What do your cousin feel about youself??? > > > > > > > > JAI HIND INDIA. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > > > Pawan, > > > > > > > > a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or otherwise. I just > > > > followwhat I believe is right. > > > > > > > > b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only breed > > > > hate and > > > > more violence and > > > > can not be a solution. > > > > > > > > c) I have no idea what 'filth' you refer to about Asit (presume > > > > that is > > > > 'AsitRed'). However, > > > > must admit that I rarely read what he writes as he writes in a block > > > > without > > > > punctuation or paras that I find impossible to comprehend. > > > > > > > > d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, what I do or > > > > profess to > > > > here is not > > > > to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone on this list except my > > > > cousinwho > > > > introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who thinks what of > me. > > > > Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and engaging > > > > in a > > > > debate when > > > > I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > > > > > > > e) Why do you always by-pass the point in contention - that is - > > > > are you > > > > proposing that > > > > the solution to Yasin Malik and the violence in J&K is more > > > > violence - > > > > because that is > > > > what is coming out from your responses and your avoiding the moot > > > > pointof the debate. > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > ..................... > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Partha , > > > > > > > > > > Among many Pseudo secular over here , i still continued to trust > > > > you to > > > > > some extent. However I must admit that you too ,like others in > > > > the bunch, > > > > > maintain double standards. > > > > > > > > > > You had no words when the Asit ( Lal Salaam) , writes filth > against > > > > > Kashmiri Hindus , while as you always seem to be ready at the > > > > start up line > > > > > of 100 mts once Kashmiri Muslim terrorists are discussed. > > > > > > > > > > Disappointed ! > > > > > > > > > > Pawan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > > > That still doesn't answer the question: Do you think that the > only > > > > > > response to violence should be violence? > > > > > > > > > > > > Because, if so, there will never be an end to the struggle - > > > > just more > > > > > > death and hate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > ................... > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > And neither Have Kashmiri Hindus ever believed in Violence > > > > ......But> > > again we have no love for a Psycopath killer like > > > > Yasine> > > > > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you are not saying that because you consider > > > > Yasin Malik a > > > > > > > > "killer/terrorist" that the only language he will > > > > understand is your > > > > > > > > shooting / killing him in the same manner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do try and remember that the nation of India achieved it's > > > > freedom> > > > through Mahatma Gandhi who did NOT fight back with > > > > violence. One of the > > > > > > > > reasons he's considered the "Father of the Nation'... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Pawan Durani < > > > > > > > > pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what manner of protest would a killer /terrorist > > > > understand ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just Curious ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know about the feet licking part (always > > > > considered it > > > > > > > > > > unhygienic), > > > > > > > > > > however, I do like the idea of peace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you don't disagree with the concept of peace > > > > in J&K? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the "piece of mind" bit - well, that's > > > > something all > > > > > > > > > > public figures > > > > > > > > > > have to live with - some people agree and some don't. > > > > If it > > > > > > > > > > makes you > > > > > > > > > > happier to see people fighting and shouting, then I > would > > > > > > > > > > certainly disagree > > > > > > > > > > in the manner of protest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul < > > > > > > > > > > kauladityaraj at gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God Bless Terrorist Yasin Malik of JKLF - The > > > > organiser of > > > > > > > > > > this session of > > > > > > > > > > > brainwashing. May God as well bless people who lick > > > > his feet > > > > > > > > > > in Delhi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Your Information, Yasin was given a good piece > > > > of mind > > > > > > > > > > inside and > > > > > > > > > > > outside the venue of the India Today Conclave 2008 > > > > where he > > > > > > > > > > was a guest > > > > > > > > > > > speaker. For more information and pictures; visit: > > > > > > > > > > > www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/08, inder salim wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > From: S. Jabbar > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 1:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > > > > > > > > > > > > To: sheba > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: Binalakshmi Nepram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > JKLF presents: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Voices of Peace, Voices of Freedom > > > > > > > > > > > > Photo and video exhibition of JKLFs Historic 114 day > > > > > > > > > > > > nonviolent march through the valley of Kashmir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: March 19,2008. > > > > > > > > > > > > Time: 11 am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venue: Indian Social Institute, > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 Institutional Area > > > > > > > > > > > > Lodi Road > > > > > > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maqbool Manzil,Maisooma,Srinagar, > > > > > > > > > > > > Contact:2474882-2481844, > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklfkashmir.org > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklf.org.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - -- > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > > the city. > > > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject > header. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > > the city. > > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > > city.> > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > list/>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > +919811047132 > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > > > list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > > > > Yahoo! Search. > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > > > list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.< > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs> > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Partha Dasgupta > > +919811047132 > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster > > Total Access< > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47523/*http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > >, > > No Cost. > > > > > -- > Partha Dasgupta > +919811047132 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From arshad.mcrc at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 22:41:47 2008 From: arshad.mcrc at gmail.com (arshad amanullah) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 22:41:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested a Delhi-based Journalist Message-ID: <2076f31d0804071011g44172c96pb71fbc9b9424ed99@mail.gmail.com> www.milligazette.com New Delhi, 7 April 2008: Late last evening the police in the BJP-ruled state of Madhya Pradesh arrested a Delhi-based journalist who had gone there to report on recent arrests in the state. The journalist is Mr Nadim Ahmad, a staffer of The Milli Gazette fortnightly English-language newspaper published from Delhi since 2000. Ahmad was arrested by the police early 6 April evening in village Aroda/Choral under Balwada Police Station, Distt Khargone, Indore Range. Contact with Ahmad was possible until late in the evening on his mobile phone (# 09911334768). However, since this morning he is not picking up his phone while Police Inspector Sunil Visthre (mobile # 09926670086), who took Ahmad in custody, is not responding to calls on his mobile. Enquiries with highest police officials in Indore have failed to help trace the whereabout of the arrested journalist. The Milli Gazette editor, Dr Zafarul-Islam Khan, has written in this matter to Mr Shivraj Patil, the Union Home Minister, MP Governor Mr Balram Jhakar, MP Chief Minister Mr Shivraj Singh Chauhan, MP home minister Mr. Himmat Kothari, as well as to top police officials in MP state. If the journalist remains untraceable, Dr Khan plans to file a habeas corpus suit in the Supreme Court of India tomorrow, 8 April. [end] Issued by The Milli Gazette D-84 Abul Fazal Enclave-I Jamia Nagar, New Delhi 110 025 Tel. (011) 26942883, 26947483, 26952825 Email: edit at milligazette.com Website: www.milligazette.com Following is the text of the letter sent by Dr Zafarul-Islam Khan, Editor, The Milli Gazette, on 7 April 2008 via fax, email and courier to a number of central and MP state authorities: "This is to inform you that we are a registered English-language fortnightly newspaper published regularly since January 2000 (registered RNI number DELENG/2000/930). A few days back we sent Mr Nadim Ahmad, one of our full-time staff reporters, to Sarangpur, Madhya Pradesh, to report on communal violence there. At about same time news of arrests of alleged SIMI members also came from an adjacent area in the state, so I instructed him to go to Indore as well to report on the situation there and to visit some places from where arrests were made. Mr Ahmad reached Indore yesterday, 6 April 2008, and after making enquiries about the location of the concerned areas, went to village Aroda/Choral under Balwada Police Station, Distt Khargone, Indore Range (Thana phone No. 07280-261237) whose in-charge is Town Inspector Mr Sunil Visthre (mobile no. 09926670086). Inspector Visthre spoke to me last night at around 8-9 pm using Mr Ahmad's mobile no. 09911334768 asking why he was in the area. It was explained to him that Mr Ahmad was a full-time staff reporter of this paper and he was there at my instructions to report on the recent arrests. Inspector Visthre told me that there was nothing to worry about and Mr Ahmad is helping enquiries and he is not under arrest. My last contact with Ahmad was at 11.06 pm yesterday (6 April 08) on his mobile phone in which he said he is alright and was answering questions by the police; Inspector Visthre also spoke to me over the same phone at that time and told me that there is nothing to worry about as they were only trying to establish the reason why Mr Nadim was in the area.. Mr Nadim Ahmad's last call was at 1.28 am on 7-4-08 which I could not receive as I had gone to bed by that time. In the morning I tried to contact Mr Ahmad using his mobile number but there was no response. Thereafter, I phoned Balwada Thana at the above phone number and was informed that Inspector Visthre has taken Mr Ahmad to Indore in the morning at 6 AM. Efforts to contact Mr Ahmad since then have failed; Inspector Visthre too is not taking up calls to his mobile. After this, I phoned Indore Superintendent of Police Mr Anshuman Yadav on his mobile no. 09425115144 at 11.30 am (7 April 08). He told me that he had no information about this matter. As of now, my apprehension is that Mr Nadim Ahmad has been arrested and kept under custody at an unknown place for no reason whatsoever as he was only discharging his duties as a journalist to investigate matters of common and media interest. I fear that under the current charged atmosphere in the state of Madhya Pradesh, Mr Ahmad may have been falsely implicated in some matter and illegally deprived of his liberty. I request you to immediately intervene in this matter and ensure the freedom of press guaranteed by our Constitution and laws." From naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 05:57:01 2008 From: naeem.mohaiemen at gmail.com (Naeem Mohaiemen) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 06:27:01 +0600 Subject: [Reader-list] Indian Guest Workers, Katrina, UN Message-ID: Asian American Legal Defense and Education Fund New Orleans Workers' Center for Racial Justice Alliance of Guestworkers for Dignity Furious at Rejection From Their Own Government, Indian Guest Workers Turn To UN Workers Will Meet With UN High Commissioner To Highlight Role of US and India in Trafficking Guest Workers; Will Release Statement Demanding Action from Indian Government New York, New York -- Indian guest workers who broke a major human trafficking chain and launched a political firestorm in India will meet with the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights at 1 pm on Tuesday, April 8. Workers will highlight the role of the Indian and US governments in allowing companies and recruiters to use the US guest worker program as a legally sanctioned vehicle for modern-day slavery. Workers will also issue an excoriating statement demanding action from the Indian government to bring safety and relief to 550 trafficking victims and their families. The workers triggered a criminal trafficking investigation by the Department of Justice against their former employer, Signal International, and the US and Indian recruiters who brought them to the US on false promises of permanent residency and green cards. Workers slammed the company and recruiters with a federal class action lawsuit, and walked on foot to Washington - in the tradition of Gandhi - to unmask the US guest worker program and force the Indian and US governments to take action on their behalf. In Washington, workers spoke at Congressional briefings and addressed US elected officials. After a high-level meeting with the Indian ambassador yielded only symbols, not solutions, workers then sought out the United Nations as an ally. Where: Church Center, 777 United Nations Plaza, 10th Floor, New York City When: 2:30 pm, Tuesday, April 8, 2008 Who: Indian workers trafficked to the post-Katrina Gulf Coast who are members of the Alliance of Guest Workers for Dignity and their allies # # # MEDIA ADVISORY FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: April 7, 2008 CONTACT: Saket Soni 504-881-6610 This message was sent by: Asian American Legal Defense and Education Fund, 99 Hudson St., 12 FL, New York, NY 10013 From parthaekka at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 08:29:23 2008 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 08:29:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition In-Reply-To: <6353c690804070937x50e2dc60h5597fe26f3a5046@mail.gmail.com> References: <32144e990803260907v50c3713ne24e3cf669c462f@mail.gmail.com> <752639.98127.qm@web45510.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <32144e990804070911h65c27fdax302e0d90d12b39e7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690804070937x50e2dc60h5597fe26f3a5046@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32144e990804071959o227588fdia6652f6797970fe9@mail.gmail.com> Aditya, However justified your stance may be or not, you still are under the constitution of India. Which means what I 'dare' do or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is the terminology used by the government. Do check the official site that I have referenced. Unless now you are claiming that as an 'IDP' you do not come under the laws of the country. Rgds, Partha ........................... On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Partha or anybody else, > > Dare you call us all victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing - "Kashmiri > Migrants". We didn't leave by our own will nor did we go out in search of > livelihood. It was a forced migration due to sudden rise of Islamic > Fundamentalism and violence. And if you really want to get enligtened read > the various Article's of United Nations. We do qualify to be Internally > Displaced People (IDP's). Hope you understand that. > > May God Bless you on the first day of Navreh (Kashmiri Pandit New Year) > > Regards > Aditya Raj Kaul > Campaign Blog - www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > On 4/7/08, Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > > > Dear Dhatri, > > > > a) On the issue of 'Kashmiri Migrants' I would suggest you check the > > Govt > > site which just > happens > > to be the official site of the J&K Govt - and the phrase is used a > > number > > of times - officially. Unless, of course, you have started a unique > > dictionary > > of your own. > > > > b) From your phrasing, it seems you are in support of Jihad, and > killing. > > Do confirm if this is true, and who/how will you define your > 'Rakshas' > > > > c) If you had read Radhikarajen's mail, you would have seen the point > > that > > was being made instead of going off on right angles about Gandhiji > and > > the Muslim League. > > > > Rgds, Partha > > ........................ > > > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:52 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > HAPPY NEW YEAR! > > > > > > As I was busy with some matters, I am unable to respond your > mail. > > > My mail was very much related to the debate, as this is a response to > > > radhikarajen mail. > > > > > > Next on your points, > > > > > > >>a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to Kashmir > > (which > > > can only > > > happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) or > living > > in > > > a > > > hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking for > death. > > > > > > First and foremost please avoid the term MIGRATION within > > INDIA. Kashmiri > > > Pundits do have exclusive rights over KASHMIR because its their birth > > > place, since their ancestors. No body can do anything over this! > > > > > > >>b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being > > > oblivious to everything > > > else will solve anything. > > > > > > > > > Its nothing to do with my feeling or your feeling, but the actual > > scenario > > > is entirely different there and it is because of JIHAD and its > > > supporters. Even RAMA,KRISHNA killed RAKHASAS. Emperors,kings > whoever > > > ruled INDIA from EPIC AGE TO MODERN > > did > > > the same. Irrespective of time RAKSHASAS SHOULD BE KILLED. > > > > > > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > *Partha Dasgupta * wrote: > > > > > > Dear Dhatri, > > > > > > As usual, you have completely ignored the debate and gone off on an > > > unrelated tangent. > > > > > > All that we are clarifying here is: > > > > > > a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to Kashmir > (which > > > can only > > > happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) or > living > > in > > > a > > > hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking for > death. > > > > > > b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being > > oblivious > > > to everything > > > else will solve anything. > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > ............................................. > > > > > > On 3/26/08, we wi wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > Though I am not a great personality to talk about HISTORY, PAST and > > > > interested as well, but If I ask a very basic question with mere > > innocence > > > > over this > > > > > > > > >>Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault lines as all > > of > > > > us, reluctantly > > > > >>agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus Pakistan > was > > > > born as free India > > > > >>emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS THE NATION, WHICH > SAW > > > > THE > > > > >>SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND > > MUSLIMS, > > > > > > > > >>SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? > > > > > > > > What happen if late Mr.M.K.Gandhi disagrees for the division of > > the > > > > nation on faith? > > > > Let us discuss pros and cons over this. Probably the same amount of > > > > casualties (after Partition) could have happened as a result of > > > > disagreement, but they are for time being (i.e., once and for all) > > only. > > > > There should not be any troubles, whatever the country (I MEAN INDIA > > AS A > > > > NATION) has been suffering and facing (since 60 years) from all > > > > directions. > > > > > > > > I would like to question MUSLIM LEAGUE ROLE over SUB-CONTINENT > > > > INDEPENDENCE, their leaders' sacrifices as that of ... (as there > > > > are in-numerous HINDU patriots, I could not mention just one or > > 2). It is > > > > clear that Mr. JINNAH AND HIS PUPPETS with cunning BRITISH BACK > > > > ENJOYED/ENTHRALLED the POWER and LAND freely. If 2 nation theory > > failed so > > > > utterly why was a SEPARATE COUNTRY CALLED PAKISTAN IS STILL > SURVIVING > > with > > > > OCCUPIED, GIFTED INDIAN TERRITORIES TO CHINA? > > > > > > > > --Coming back to late Mr. JAWAHARLAL NEHRU, > > > > > > > > 1) HE DIDN'T HAIL FROM ANY DYNASTY. LIKE EVERY FATHER, HIS > > > > FATHER SENT HIM TO LONDON FOR HIGHER STUDIES. THE RICHNESS COMES > FROM > > HIS > > > > FATHERS' THEN PROFESSION. AS HE WAS INTELLIGENT, HE FLOURISHED IN > > STUDIES > > > > AND IN POLITICS AS WELL. WHAT WE believe > > > > > > > > a) LATE Mr. NEHRU WAS CHEATED BY EVERYBODY (BRITISH, FRIENDS, > > > > SECULARISTS, INTELLECTUALS AND THEN CHINA) like India WAS CHEATED > AND > > ROBBED > > > > BY INVADERS. How? > > > > > > > > > > > > As a CASTE RIDDEN INDIAN SOCIETY (WHY RACISM WAS IS SO POPULAR IN > > > > WESTERN WORLD. Where does it come from? ARE THEY JUST STEAL it from > > India > > > > after invasions like anything? Why did they fail to eradicate it?) > > AND > > > > NOBODY WILLING TO LOOSE THEIR CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS, > > > > > > > > Why late Mr. NEHRU was chosen/influenced to give away his daughter, > > > > INDIRAPRIYADARSINI to a PARSI BRIDEGROOM? Is Mr.M.K.GANDHI or > > > > Mr.JINNAH feared to do so (As both were having sons and > > daughters)? What > > > > was then SOCIETY (INTELLECTUAL OR ORDINARY) silent and play a > > spectators > > > > role over this? > > > > > > > > --Finally What Mr. Nehru did to whom? > > > > > > > > Entire India starting from school going kids to 110 year old know > > about > > > > his vision, his plans and his burning desire for the Country AND ITS > > > > DEVELOPMENT. If we talk about the world starting from CHINA to the > > country > > > > that ANY BODY mention, The universe know and if they have conscious > > they > > > > remember HIM and pray with FOLDED HANDS. > > > > > > > > I hope none of you feel, contradict and murmur if I quote, > > > > Too err is human, and what if late Mr. Nehru err in few cases if any > > > > (anybody point or feel) after all Mr. Nehru too a human. Late Mr. > > Nehru > > > > ruled INDIA as per the constitution written under the stewardship of > > Mr. > > > > Ambedkar in a better way as that of any body all times. (Of course > > > > Indirapriyadarsini as well). > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *radhikarajen at vsnl.net* wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, all. > > > > > > > > All said and done, let us not forget that Mohandas Karamchand gandhi > > was > > > > as human as all of us, and he had greater vision of free India which > > did not > > > > include divided national boundaries on the faith, and Nethaji > Subhash > > was > > > > popularly elected president of then plenary session of Indian > national > > > > Congress, in 1939, it is different matter that " High Command " then > > chose > > > > Jawahar Nehru to be president., over the popular choice of nethaji. > > > > > > > > Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault lines as all of us, > > > > reluctantly agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus > Pakistan > > was > > > > born as free India emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS THE > NATION, > > WHICH > > > > SAW THE SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND > > MUSLIMS, > > > > SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? > > > > > > > > THIRDLY,GANDHIJI WAS IN FREE iNDIA NEVER ASPIRED FOR ANY POWER OR > > > > POSITION lIKE NEHRU WHO WANTED TO SIDELINE EVERYBODY AND BE prime > > minister > > > > HIMSELF. His greed for position and favour and nepotism and > dynastical > > > > fervour is seen in free India. > > > > Gandhiji never "helped" his progeny to be "leaders" like the Rajeevs > > and > > > > Indiras of nehru dynasty All said and done, Gandhiji was good human, > > with > > > > good morals and ethics unlike his betenoire, Nehru, debauch, > selfish, > > never > > > > cared for kashmiri displaced brothers. > > > > Regards.. > > > > From: we wi > > > > Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:38 pm > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > > > > To: Partha Dasgupta , Pawan Durani > > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > > > > > > > > Partha, > > > > > > > > > > Mahatma gandhi was in 1900 around and this is 2000. Kindly > > > > > note the difference in everything. > > > > > > > > > > >>>a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or otherwise. I > > > > > just follow > > > > > >>>what I believe is right. > > > > > > > > > > What if somebody or everybody feel wrong about that. Will you > > > > > reconsider it or still proceed in the same way. Whatever be the > > > > > case you must be either intellectual or an idiot. I really sorry > > > > > to say this. > > > > > > > > > > >>>b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only > > > > > breed hate and > > > > > >>>more violence and can not be a solution. > > > > > > > > > > "violence is the only solution for violence." > > > > > you should question both quarreling parties instead of asking > > > > > only one. Listen their answers understand them and then start > > > > > believing anything. > > > > > > > > > > >>>d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, what I do > > > > > or profess to > > > > > >>>here is not to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone on this > > > > > list except my cousin > > > > > >>>who introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who thinks > > > > > what of me. > > > > > >>>Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and > > > > > engaging in a > > > > > >>>debate when I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > > > > > > > > > What do your cousin feel about youself??? > > > > > > > > > > JAI HIND INDIA. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > > > > Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or otherwise. I just > > > > > followwhat I believe is right. > > > > > > > > > > b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only breed > > > > > hate and > > > > > more violence and > > > > > can not be a solution. > > > > > > > > > > c) I have no idea what 'filth' you refer to about Asit (presume > > > > > that is > > > > > 'AsitRed'). However, > > > > > must admit that I rarely read what he writes as he writes in a > block > > > > > without > > > > > punctuation or paras that I find impossible to comprehend. > > > > > > > > > > d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, what I do or > > > > > profess to > > > > > here is not > > > > > to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone on this list except my > > > > > cousinwho > > > > > introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who thinks what of > > me. > > > > > Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and engaging > > > > > in a > > > > > debate when > > > > > I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > > > > > > > > > e) Why do you always by-pass the point in contention - that is - > > > > > are you > > > > > proposing that > > > > > the solution to Yasin Malik and the violence in J&K is more > > > > > violence - > > > > > because that is > > > > > what is coming out from your responses and your avoiding the moot > > > > > pointof the debate. > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > ..................... > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Partha , > > > > > > > > > > > > Among many Pseudo secular over here , i still continued to trust > > > > > you to > > > > > > some extent. However I must admit that you too ,like others in > > > > > the bunch, > > > > > > maintain double standards. > > > > > > > > > > > > You had no words when the Asit ( Lal Salaam) , writes filth > > against > > > > > > Kashmiri Hindus , while as you always seem to be ready at the > > > > > start up line > > > > > > of 100 mts once Kashmiri Muslim terrorists are discussed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Disappointed ! > > > > > > > > > > > > Pawan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That still doesn't answer the question: Do you think that the > > only > > > > > > > response to violence should be violence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because, if so, there will never be an end to the struggle - > > > > > just more > > > > > > > death and hate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > ................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And neither Have Kashmiri Hindus ever believed in Violence > > > > > ......But> > > again we have no love for a Psycopath killer like > > > > > Yasine> > > > > > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you are not saying that because you consider > > > > > Yasin Malik a > > > > > > > > > "killer/terrorist" that the only language he will > > > > > understand is your > > > > > > > > > shooting / killing him in the same manner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do try and remember that the nation of India achieved it's > > > > > freedom> > > > through Mahatma Gandhi who did NOT fight back with > > > > > violence. One of the > > > > > > > > > reasons he's considered the "Father of the Nation'... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Pawan Durani < > > > > > > > > > pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what manner of protest would a killer /terrorist > > > > > understand ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just Curious ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know about the feet licking part (always > > > > > considered it > > > > > > > > > > > unhygienic), > > > > > > > > > > > however, I do like the idea of peace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you don't disagree with the concept of peace > > > > > in J&K? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the "piece of mind" bit - well, that's > > > > > something all > > > > > > > > > > > public figures > > > > > > > > > > > have to live with - some people agree and some don't. > > > > > If it > > > > > > > > > > > makes you > > > > > > > > > > > happier to see people fighting and shouting, then I > > would > > > > > > > > > > > certainly disagree > > > > > > > > > > > in the manner of protest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul < > > > > > > > > > > > kauladityaraj at gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God Bless Terrorist Yasin Malik of JKLF - The > > > > > organiser of > > > > > > > > > > > this session of > > > > > > > > > > > > brainwashing. May God as well bless people who lick > > > > > his feet > > > > > > > > > > > in Delhi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Your Information, Yasin was given a good piece > > > > > of mind > > > > > > > > > > > inside and > > > > > > > > > > > > outside the venue of the India Today Conclave 2008 > > > > > where he > > > > > > > > > > > was a guest > > > > > > > > > > > > speaker. For more information and pictures; visit: > > > > > > > > > > > > www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/08, inder salim wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: S. Jabbar > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 1:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: sheba > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: Binalakshmi Nepram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > JKLF presents: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Voices of Peace, Voices of Freedom > > > > > > > > > > > > > Photo and video exhibition of JKLFs Historic 114 > day > > > > > > > > > > > > > nonviolent march through the valley of Kashmir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: March 19,2008. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Time: 11 am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venue: Indian Social Institute, > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 Institutional Area > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lodi Road > > > > > > > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maqbool Manzil,Maisooma,Srinagar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contact:2474882-2481844, > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklfkashmir.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklf.org.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > > > the city. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject > > header. > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > > > the city. > > > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > subscribe in the subject > header. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the > > > > > city.> > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > > request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > list/>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > +919811047132 > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > > > > list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > > > > > Yahoo! Search. > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > > > > list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.< > > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > +919811047132 > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of > Blockbuster > > > Total Access< > > > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47523/*http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com > > >, > > > No Cost. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Partha Dasgupta > > +919811047132 > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Tue Apr 8 15:01:52 2008 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 02:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition In-Reply-To: <32144e990804071959o227588fdia6652f6797970fe9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <76105.481.qm@web45501.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Whatever Partha is talking is irrelevant I feel in all angles, forget about TANGENT. If partha go through the mails and the terminology inside carefully, partha ought to say something different like Partha told INDIA was survived by all attacks, INDIA will survive forever. As partha entered into this list, partha is trying to speak by misunderstanding or misinterpreting or whatever. Let me ask you a question directly on migration. CASE A: If I (don't wish to point anybody, they may feel wrong like partha) born in village, grew up and studied in a town, working at a METRO with humans, should I be called as a MIGRANT or CITIZEN??? ALL THE PLACES I MENTIONED BELONG TO THE SAME COUNTRY. CASE B: Born in a village/town, grew up and studied at a METRO of different country, returned to the birth country and working??? CASE C: Born and brought up at native and working at a METRO of another country ? Which society or country or Government will treat me as MIGRANT? As per my knowledge, Except in CASE C I am very much CITIZEN to my BIRTH COUNTRY. Hence as far as INDIA is concerned nobody working anywhere within INDIA should not be treated or called as MIGRANTS. Whatever laws you are talking are copy paste/dumped rules and are just man made, not only that they are unequal AMONG THE COUNTRY MEN my dear partha. Partha Dasgupta wrote: Aditya, However justified your stance may be or not, you still are under the constitution of India. Which means what I 'dare' do or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is the terminology used by the government. Do check the official site that I have referenced. Unless now you are claiming that as an 'IDP' you do not come under the laws of the country. Rgds, Partha ............................ On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 10:07 PM, Aditya Raj Kaul wrote: > Partha or anybody else, > > Dare you call us all victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing - "Kashmiri > Migrants". We didn't leave by our own will nor did we go out in search of > livelihood. It was a forced migration due to sudden rise of Islamic > Fundamentalism and violence. And if you really want to get enligtened read > the various Article's of United Nations. We do qualify to be Internally > Displaced People (IDP's). Hope you understand that. > > May God Bless you on the first day of Navreh (Kashmiri Pandit New Year) > > Regards > Aditya Raj Kaul > Campaign Blog - www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > On 4/7/08, Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > > > Dear Dhatri, > > > > a) On the issue of 'Kashmiri Migrants' I would suggest you check the > > Govt > > site which just > happens > > to be the official site of the J&K Govt - and the phrase is used a > > number > > of times - officially. Unless, of course, you have started a unique > > dictionary > > of your own. > > > > b) From your phrasing, it seems you are in support of Jihad, and > killing. > > Do confirm if this is true, and who/how will you define your > 'Rakshas' > > > > c) If you had read Radhikarajen's mail, you would have seen the point > > that > > was being made instead of going off on right angles about Gandhiji > and > > the Muslim League. > > > > Rgds, Partha > > ........................ > > > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:52 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > HAPPY NEW YEAR! > > > > > > As I was busy with some matters, I am unable to respond your > mail. > > > My mail was very much related to the debate, as this is a response to > > > radhikarajen mail. > > > > > > Next on your points, > > > > > > >>a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to Kashmir > > (which > > > can only > > > happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) or > living > > in > > > a > > > hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking for > death. > > > > > > First and foremost please avoid the term MIGRATION within > > INDIA. Kashmiri > > > Pundits do have exclusive rights over KASHMIR because its their birth > > > place, since their ancestors. No body can do anything over this! > > > > > > >>b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being > > > oblivious to everything > > > else will solve anything. > > > > > > > > > Its nothing to do with my feeling or your feeling, but the actual > > scenario > > > is entirely different there and it is because of JIHAD and its > > > supporters. Even RAMA,KRISHNA killed RAKHASAS. Emperors,kings > whoever > > > ruled INDIA from EPIC AGE TO MODERN > > did > > > the same. Irrespective of time RAKSHASAS SHOULD BE KILLED. > > > > > > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > *Partha Dasgupta * wrote: > > > > > > Dear Dhatri, > > > > > > As usual, you have completely ignored the debate and gone off on an > > > unrelated tangent. > > > > > > All that we are clarifying here is: > > > > > > a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to Kashmir > (which > > > can only > > > happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) or > living > > in > > > a > > > hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking for > death. > > > > > > b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being > > oblivious > > > to everything > > > else will solve anything. > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > ............................................. > > > > > > On 3/26/08, we wi wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > Though I am not a great personality to talk about HISTORY, PAST and > > > > interested as well, but If I ask a very basic question with mere > > innocence > > > > over this > > > > > > > > >>Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault lines as all > > of > > > > us, reluctantly > > > > >>agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus Pakistan > was > > > > born as free India > > > > >>emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS THE NATION, WHICH > SAW > > > > THE > > > > >>SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND > > MUSLIMS, > > > > > > > > >>SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? > > > > > > > > What happen if late Mr.M.K.Gandhi disagrees for the division of > > the > > > > nation on faith? > > > > Let us discuss pros and cons over this. Probably the same amount of > > > > casualties (after Partition) could have happened as a result of > > > > disagreement, but they are for time being (i.e., once and for all) > > only. > > > > There should not be any troubles, whatever the country (I MEAN INDIA > > AS A > > > > NATION) has been suffering and facing (since 60 years) from all > > > > directions. > > > > > > > > I would like to question MUSLIM LEAGUE ROLE over SUB-CONTINENT > > > > INDEPENDENCE, their leaders' sacrifices as that of ... (as there > > > > are in-numerous HINDU patriots, I could not mention just one or > > 2). It is > > > > clear that Mr. JINNAH AND HIS PUPPETS with cunning BRITISH BACK > > > > ENJOYED/ENTHRALLED the POWER and LAND freely. If 2 nation theory > > failed so > > > > utterly why was a SEPARATE COUNTRY CALLED PAKISTAN IS STILL > SURVIVING > > with > > > > OCCUPIED, GIFTED INDIAN TERRITORIES TO CHINA? > > > > > > > > --Coming back to late Mr. JAWAHARLAL NEHRU, > > > > > > > > 1) HE DIDN'T HAIL FROM ANY DYNASTY. LIKE EVERY FATHER, HIS > > > > FATHER SENT HIM TO LONDON FOR HIGHER STUDIES. THE RICHNESS COMES > FROM > > HIS > > > > FATHERS' THEN PROFESSION. AS HE WAS INTELLIGENT, HE FLOURISHED IN > > STUDIES > > > > AND IN POLITICS AS WELL. WHAT WE believe > > > > > > > > a) LATE Mr. NEHRU WAS CHEATED BY EVERYBODY (BRITISH, FRIENDS, > > > > SECULARISTS, INTELLECTUALS AND THEN CHINA) like India WAS CHEATED > AND > > ROBBED > > > > BY INVADERS. How? > > > > > > > > > > > > As a CASTE RIDDEN INDIAN SOCIETY (WHY RACISM WAS IS SO POPULAR IN > > > > WESTERN WORLD. Where does it come from? ARE THEY JUST STEAL it from > > India > > > > after invasions like anything? Why did they fail to eradicate it?) > > AND > > > > NOBODY WILLING TO LOOSE THEIR CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS, > > > > > > > > Why late Mr. NEHRU was chosen/influenced to give away his daughter, > > > > INDIRAPRIYADARSINI to a PARSI BRIDEGROOM? Is Mr.M.K.GANDHI or > > > > Mr.JINNAH feared to do so (As both were having sons and > > daughters)? What > > > > was then SOCIETY (INTELLECTUAL OR ORDINARY) silent and play a > > spectators > > > > role over this? > > > > > > > > --Finally What Mr. Nehru did to whom? > > > > > > > > Entire India starting from school going kids to 110 year old know > > about > > > > his vision, his plans and his burning desire for the Country AND ITS > > > > DEVELOPMENT. If we talk about the world starting from CHINA to the > > country > > > > that ANY BODY mention, The universe know and if they have conscious > > they > > > > remember HIM and pray with FOLDED HANDS. > > > > > > > > I hope none of you feel, contradict and murmur if I quote, > > > > Too err is human, and what if late Mr. Nehru err in few cases if any > > > > (anybody point or feel) after all Mr. Nehru too a human. Late Mr. > > Nehru > > > > ruled INDIA as per the constitution written under the stewardship of > > Mr. > > > > Ambedkar in a better way as that of any body all times. (Of course > > > > Indirapriyadarsini as well). > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *radhikarajen at vsnl.net* wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, all. > > > > > > > > All said and done, let us not forget that Mohandas Karamchand gandhi > > was > > > > as human as all of us, and he had greater vision of free India which > > did not > > > > include divided national boundaries on the faith, and Nethaji > Subhash > > was > > > > popularly elected president of then plenary session of Indian > national > > > > Congress, in 1939, it is different matter that " High Command " then > > chose > > > > Jawahar Nehru to be president., over the popular choice of nethaji. > > > > > > > > Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault lines as all of us, > > > > reluctantly agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus > Pakistan > > was > > > > born as free India emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS THE > NATION, > > WHICH > > > > SAW THE SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND > > MUSLIMS, > > > > SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? > > > > > > > > THIRDLY,GANDHIJI WAS IN FREE iNDIA NEVER ASPIRED FOR ANY POWER OR > > > > POSITION lIKE NEHRU WHO WANTED TO SIDELINE EVERYBODY AND BE prime > > minister > > > > HIMSELF. His greed for position and favour and nepotism and > dynastical > > > > fervour is seen in free India. > > > > Gandhiji never "helped" his progeny to be "leaders" like the Rajeevs > > and > > > > Indiras of nehru dynasty All said and done, Gandhiji was good human, > > with > > > > good morals and ethics unlike his betenoire, Nehru, debauch, > selfish, > > never > > > > cared for kashmiri displaced brothers. > > > > Regards.. > > > > From: we wi > > > > Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:38 pm > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > > > > To: Partha Dasgupta , Pawan Durani > > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > > > > > > > > Partha, > > > > > > > > > > Mahatma gandhi was in 1900 around and this is 2000. Kindly > > > > > note the difference in everything. > > > > > > > > > > >>>a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or otherwise. I > > > > > just follow > > > > > >>>what I believe is right. > > > > > > > > > > What if somebody or everybody feel wrong about that. Will you > > > > > reconsider it or still proceed in the same way. Whatever be the > > > > > case you must be either intellectual or an idiot. I really sorry > > > > > to say this. > > > > > > > > > > >>>b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only > > > > > breed hate and > > > > > >>>more violence and can not be a solution. > > > > > > > > > > "violence is the only solution for violence." > > > > > you should question both quarreling parties instead of asking > > > > > only one. Listen their answers understand them and then start > > > > > believing anything. > > > > > > > > > > >>>d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, what I do > > > > > or profess to > > > > > >>>here is not to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone on this > > > > > list except my cousin > > > > > >>>who introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who thinks > > > > > what of me. > > > > > >>>Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and > > > > > engaging in a > > > > > >>>debate when I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > > > > > > > > > What do your cousin feel about youself??? > > > > > > > > > > JAI HIND INDIA. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > > > > Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or otherwise. I just > > > > > followwhat I believe is right. > > > > > > > > > > b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only breed > > > > > hate and > > > > > more violence and > > > > > can not be a solution. > > > > > > > > > > c) I have no idea what 'filth' you refer to about Asit (presume > > > > > that is > > > > > 'AsitRed'). However, > > > > > must admit that I rarely read what he writes as he writes in a > block > > > > > without > > > > > punctuation or paras that I find impossible to comprehend. > > > > > > > > > > d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, what I do or > > > > > profess to > > > > > here is not > > > > > to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone on this list except my > > > > > cousinwho > > > > > introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who thinks what of > > me. > > > > > Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and engaging > > > > > in a > > > > > debate when > > > > > I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > > > > > > > > > e) Why do you always by-pass the point in contention - that is - > > > > > are you > > > > > proposing that > > > > > the solution to Yasin Malik and the violence in J&K is more > > > > > violence - > > > > > because that is > > > > > what is coming out from your responses and your avoiding the moot > > > > > pointof the debate. > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > ..................... > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Partha , > > > > > > > > > > > > Among many Pseudo secular over here , i still continued to trust > > > > > you to > > > > > > some extent. However I must admit that you too ,like others in > > > > > the bunch, > > > > > > maintain double standards. > > > > > > > > > > > > You had no words when the Asit ( Lal Salaam) , writes filth > > against > > > > > > Kashmiri Hindus , while as you always seem to be ready at the > > > > > start up line > > > > > > of 100 mts once Kashmiri Muslim terrorists are discussed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Disappointed ! > > > > > > > > > > > > Pawan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That still doesn't answer the question: Do you think that the > > only > > > > > > > response to violence should be violence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because, if so, there will never be an end to the struggle - > > > > > just more > > > > > > > death and hate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > ................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And neither Have Kashmiri Hindus ever believed in Violence > > > > > ......But> > > again we have no love for a Psycopath killer like > > > > > Yasine> > > > > > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you are not saying that because you consider > > > > > Yasin Malik a > > > > > > > > > "killer/terrorist" that the only language he will > > > > > understand is your > > > > > > > > > shooting / killing him in the same manner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do try and remember that the nation of India achieved it's > > > > > freedom> > > > through Mahatma Gandhi who did NOT fight back with > > > > > violence. One of the > > > > > > > > > reasons he's considered the "Father of the Nation'... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Pawan Durani < > > > > > > > > > pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what manner of protest would a killer /terrorist > > > > > understand ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just Curious ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know about the feet licking part (always > > > > > considered it > > > > > > > > > > > unhygienic), > > > > > > > > > > > however, I do like the idea of peace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you don't disagree with the concept of peace > > > > > in J&K? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the "piece of mind" bit - well, that's > > > > > something all > > > > > > > > > > > public figures > > > > > > > > > > > have to live with - some people agree and some don't. > > > > > If it > > > > > > > > > > > makes you > > > > > > > > > > > happier to see people fighting and shouting, then I > > would > > > > > > > > > > > certainly disagree > > > > > > > > > > > in the manner of protest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Aditya Raj Kaul < > > > > > > > > > > > kauladityaraj at gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God Bless Terrorist Yasin Malik of JKLF - The > > > > > organiser of > > > > > > > > > > > this session of > > > > > > > > > > > > brainwashing. May God as well bless people who lick > > > > > his feet > > > > > > > > > > > in Delhi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Your Information, Yasin was given a good piece > > > > > of mind > > > > > > > > > > > inside and > > > > > > > > > > > > outside the venue of the India Today Conclave 2008 > > > > > where he > > > > > > > > > > > was a guest > > > > > > > > > > > > speaker. For more information and pictures; visit: > > > > > > > > > > > > www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/08, inder salim wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: S. Jabbar > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 1:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: sheba > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: Binalakshmi Nepram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > JKLF presents: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Voices of Peace, Voices of Freedom > > > > > > > > > > > > > Photo and video exhibition of JKLFs Historic 114 > day > > > > > > > > > > > > > nonviolent march through the valley of Kashmir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: March 19,2008. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Time: 11 am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venue: Indian Social Institute, > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 Institutional Area > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lodi Road > > > > > > > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maqbool Manzil,Maisooma,Srinagar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contact:2474882-2481844, > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklfkashmir.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklf.org.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > > > the city. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject > > header. > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > > > > > the city. > > > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > subscribe in the subject > header. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list === message truncated === --------------------------------- You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. From radhikarajen at vsnl.net Tue Apr 8 18:21:09 2008 From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net (radhikarajen at vsnl.net) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:51:09 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested a Delhi-basedJournalist In-Reply-To: <2076f31d0804071011g44172c96pb71fbc9b9424ed99@mail.gmail.com> References: <2076f31d0804071011g44172c96pb71fbc9b9424ed99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Losten my friend, he is journalist, that does not mean he is above the law, he can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor, support and shield the few fanatics because he is journalist, that is when conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion is used to propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now banned does. If system of governance arrests a few, who are in subversion of laws, planning violent acts in the guise of religion and its freedom, laws have to take care of such deviant behaviour in free society. Be it a hindu, muslim or any faith, group of individuals who are traitors to the society for the "religion" are not citizens who deserve to be spared as law has to take care of such deviant behaviour., irrespective of the system of governance, or the political party that rules the state, why is it that some point out such incidents as if system is against the faith, but not against lawless behaviour by "journalist. ? Regatrds. ----- Original Message ----- From: arshad amanullah Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 10:42 pm Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested a Delhi-basedJournalist To: reader-list at sarai.net > www.milligazette.com > > New Delhi, 7 April 2008: Late last evening the police > in the BJP-ruled state of Madhya Pradesh arrested a > Delhi-based journalist who had gone there to report on > recent arrests in the state. > > The journalist is Mr Nadim Ahmad, a staffer of The > Milli Gazette fortnightly English-language newspaper > published from Delhi since 2000. > > Ahmad was arrested by the police early 6 April evening > in village Aroda/Choral under Balwada Police Station, > Distt Khargone, Indore Range. Contact with Ahmad was > possible until late in the evening on his mobile phone > (# 09911334768). However, since this morning he is not > picking up his phone while Police Inspector Sunil > Visthre (mobile # 09926670086), who took Ahmad in > custody, is not responding to calls on his mobile. > Enquiries with highest police officials in Indore have > failed to help trace the whereabout of the arrested > journalist. The Milli Gazette editor, Dr Zafarul-Islam > Khan, has written in this matter to Mr Shivraj Patil, > the Union Home Minister, MP Governor Mr Balram Jhakar, > MP Chief Minister Mr Shivraj Singh Chauhan, MP home > minister Mr. Himmat Kothari, as well as to top police > officials in MP state. > > If the journalist remains untraceable, Dr Khan plans > to file a habeas corpus suit in the Supreme Court of > India tomorrow, 8 April. > > [end] > > Issued by The Milli Gazette > D-84 Abul Fazal Enclave-I > Jamia Nagar, New Delhi 110 025 > Tel. (011) 26942883, 26947483, 26952825 > Email: edit at milligazette.com > Website: www.milligazette.com > > Following is the text of the letter sent by Dr > Zafarul-Islam Khan, Editor, The Milli Gazette, on 7 > April 2008 via fax, email and courier to a number of > central and MP state authorities: > > "This is to inform you that we are a registered > English-language fortnightly newspaper published > regularly since January 2000 (registered RNI number > DELENG/2000/930). A few days back we sent Mr Nadim > Ahmad, one of our full-time staff reporters, to > Sarangpur, Madhya Pradesh, to report on communal > violence there. At about same time news of arrests of > alleged SIMI members also came from an adjacent area > in the state, so I instructed him to go to Indore as > well to report on the situation there and to visit > some places from where arrests were made. Mr Ahmad > reached Indore yesterday, 6 April 2008, and after > making enquiries about the location of the concerned > areas, went to village Aroda/Choral under Balwada > Police Station, Distt Khargone, Indore Range (Thana > phone No. 07280-261237) whose in-charge is Town > Inspector Mr Sunil Visthre (mobile no. 09926670086). > Inspector Visthre spoke to me last night at around 8-9 > pm using Mr Ahmad's mobile no. 09911334768 asking why > he was in the area. It was explained to him that Mr > Ahmad was a full-time staff reporter of this paper and > he was there at my instructions to report on the > recent arrests. Inspector Visthre told me that there > was nothing to worry about and Mr Ahmad is helping > enquiries and he is not under arrest. > > My last contact with Ahmad was at 11.06 pm yesterday > (6 April 08) on his mobile phone in which he said he > is alright and was answering questions by the police; > Inspector Visthre also spoke to me over the same phone > at that time and told me that there is nothing to > worry about as they were only trying to establish the > reason why Mr Nadim was in the area.. Mr Nadim Ahmad's > last call was at 1.28 am on 7-4-08 which I could not > receive as I had gone to bed by that time. In the > morning I tried to contact Mr Ahmad using his mobile > number but there was no response. Thereafter, I phoned > Balwada Thana at the above phone number and was > informed that Inspector Visthre has taken Mr Ahmad to > Indore in the morning at 6 AM. Efforts to contact Mr > Ahmad since then have failed; Inspector Visthre too is > not taking up calls to his mobile. After this, I > phoned Indore Superintendent of Police Mr Anshuman > Yadav on his mobile no. 09425115144 at 11.30 am (7 > April 08). He told me that he had no information about > this matter. > > As of now, my apprehension is that Mr Nadim Ahmad has > been arrested and kept under custody at an unknown > place for no reason whatsoever as he was only > discharging his duties as a journalist to investigate > matters of common and media interest. I fear that > under the current charged atmosphere in the state of > Madhya Pradesh, Mr Ahmad may have been falsely > implicated in some matter and illegally deprived of > his liberty. I request you to immediately intervene in > this matter and ensure the freedom of press guaranteed > by our Constitution and laws." > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: From radhikarajen at vsnl.net Tue Apr 8 18:30:39 2008 From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net (radhikarajen at vsnl.net) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:00:39 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition In-Reply-To: <6353c690804070937x50e2dc60h5597fe26f3a5046@mail.gmail.com> References: <32144e990803260907v50c3713ne24e3cf669c462f@mail.gmail.com> <"7526 39.98127.qm"@web45510.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <32144e990804070911h65c27fdax302e0d90d12b39e7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690804070937x50e2dc60h5597fe26f3a5046@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well, the individuals and their families are not migrants, in 1947 with adventure of the two nation concept, the citizens were driven out by muscle power and violence, falsifying the promise that all will live like good brothers in free India. Pity is that the forced individuals are even today refugees, the refugees of bangladesh are citizens who fled in 1970 onwards, fortunately they happen to be vote banks., that too with fake ration cards. Today the individuals from Kashmir do migrate for business with artefacts and apparels, they can be seen in metros like Chennai, Bangaluru, Mumbai, but unfortunately we have to be looking at them with cynical eyes as some of them indulge in all anti societal activities. Individuals who seek to work with dignity and integrity, for the society any where in India are citizens of India, but those who work for propagation of faith like the missionaries, who along with service , do propagate that only their god is "saviour " is shame on tolerent society.Because they try to increase the number of votes of the "faith" not law abiding citizens, that is the reason an italian can rule the nation by proxy.She came as wife, but now she wnats to loot for her "family" typical mafia style, with sycophants and hangers on licking the butter, forgetting that that is how Nation was in slavery. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Aditya Raj Kaul Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 10:08 pm Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition To: reader-list at sarai.net > Partha or anybody else, > > Dare you call us all victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing - > "KashmiriMigrants". We didn't leave by our own will nor did we go > out in search of > livelihood. It was a forced migration due to sudden rise of Islamic > Fundamentalism and violence. And if you really want to get > enligtened read > the various Article's of United Nations. We do qualify to be > InternallyDisplaced People (IDP's). Hope you understand that. > > May God Bless you on the first day of Navreh (Kashmiri Pandit New > Year) > Regards > Aditya Raj Kaul > Campaign Blog - www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > On 4/7/08, Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > > > Dear Dhatri, > > > > a) On the issue of 'Kashmiri Migrants' I would suggest you > check the > > Govt > > site which > just happens > > to be the official site of the J&K Govt - and the phrase is > used a > > number > > of times - officially. Unless, of course, you have started a > unique> dictionary > > of your own. > > > > b) From your phrasing, it seems you are in support of Jihad, > and killing. > > Do confirm if this is true, and who/how will you define your > 'Rakshas'> > > c) If you had read Radhikarajen's mail, you would have seen the > point> that > > was being made instead of going off on right angles about > Gandhiji and > > the Muslim League. > > > > Rgds, Partha > > ........................ > > > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:52 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > HAPPY NEW YEAR! > > > > > > As I was busy with some matters, I am unable to respond > your mail. > > > My mail was very much related to the debate, as this is a > response to > > > radhikarajen mail. > > > > > > Next on your points, > > > > > > >>a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to Kashmir > > (which > > > can only > > > happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) > or living > > in > > > a > > > hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking > for death. > > > > > > First and foremost please avoid the term MIGRATION within > > INDIA. Kashmiri > > > Pundits do have exclusive rights over KASHMIR because its > their birth > > > place, since their ancestors. No body can do anything over this! > > > > > > >>b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being > > > oblivious to everything > > > else will solve anything. > > > > > > > > > Its nothing to do with my feeling or your feeling, but the actual > > scenario > > > is entirely different there and it is because of JIHAD and its > > > supporters. Even RAMA,KRISHNA killed RAKHASAS. > Emperors,kings whoever > > > ruled INDIA from EPIC AGE TO MODERN rule,british rule> > > did > > > the same. Irrespective of time RAKSHASAS SHOULD BE KILLED. > > > > > > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > *Partha Dasgupta * wrote: > > > > > > Dear Dhatri, > > > > > > As usual, you have completely ignored the debate and gone off > on an > > > unrelated tangent. > > > > > > All that we are clarifying here is: > > > > > > a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to > Kashmir (which > > > can only > > > happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) > or living > > in > > > a > > > hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking > for death. > > > > > > b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being > > oblivious > > > to everything > > > else will solve anything. > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > ............................................. > > > > > > On 3/26/08, we wi wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > Though I am not a great personality to talk about HISTORY, > PAST and > > > > interested as well, but If I ask a very basic question with mere > > innocence > > > > over this > > > > > > > > >>Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault > lines as all > > of > > > > us, reluctantly > > > > >>agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus > Pakistan was > > > > born as free India > > > > >>emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS THE NATION, > WHICH SAW > > > > THE > > > > >>SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND > > MUSLIMS, > > > > > > > > >>SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? > > > > > > > > What happen if late Mr.M.K.Gandhi disagrees for the > division of > > the > > > > nation on faith? > > > > Let us discuss pros and cons over this. Probably the same > amount of > > > > casualties (after Partition) could have happened as a result of > > > > disagreement, but they are for time being (i.e., once and > for all) > > only. > > > > There should not be any troubles, whatever the country (I > MEAN INDIA > > AS A > > > > NATION) has been suffering and facing (since 60 years) from all > > > > directions. > > > > > > > > I would like to question MUSLIM LEAGUE ROLE over SUB-CONTINENT > > > > INDEPENDENCE, their leaders' sacrifices as that of ... (as there > > > > are in-numerous HINDU patriots, I could not mention just one or > > 2). It is > > > > clear that Mr. JINNAH AND HIS PUPPETS with cunning BRITISH BACK > > > > ENJOYED/ENTHRALLED the POWER and LAND freely. If 2 nation > theory> failed so > > > > utterly why was a SEPARATE COUNTRY CALLED PAKISTAN IS STILL > SURVIVING> with > > > > OCCUPIED, GIFTED INDIAN TERRITORIES TO CHINA? > > > > > > > > --Coming back to late Mr. JAWAHARLAL NEHRU, > > > > > > > > 1) HE DIDN'T HAIL FROM ANY DYNASTY. LIKE EVERY > FATHER, HIS > > > > FATHER SENT HIM TO LONDON FOR HIGHER STUDIES. THE RICHNESS > COMES FROM > > HIS > > > > FATHERS' THEN PROFESSION. AS HE WAS INTELLIGENT, HE > FLOURISHED IN > > STUDIES > > > > AND IN POLITICS AS WELL. WHAT WE believe > > > > > > > > a) LATE Mr. NEHRU WAS CHEATED BY EVERYBODY (BRITISH, FRIENDS, > > > > SECULARISTS, INTELLECTUALS AND THEN CHINA) like India WAS > CHEATED AND > > ROBBED > > > > BY INVADERS. How? > > > > > > > > > > > > As a CASTE RIDDEN INDIAN SOCIETY (WHY RACISM WAS IS SO > POPULAR IN > > > > WESTERN WORLD. Where does it come from? ARE THEY JUST STEAL > it from > > India > > > > after invasions like anything? Why did they fail to > eradicate it?) > > AND > > > > NOBODY WILLING TO LOOSE THEIR CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS, > > > > > > > > Why late Mr. NEHRU was chosen/influenced to give away his > daughter,> > > INDIRAPRIYADARSINI to a PARSI BRIDEGROOM? Is > Mr.M.K.GANDHI or > > > > Mr.JINNAH feared to do so (As both were having sons and > > daughters)? What > > > > was then SOCIETY (INTELLECTUAL OR ORDINARY) silent and play a > > spectators > > > > role over this? > > > > > > > > --Finally What Mr. Nehru did to whom? > > > > > > > > Entire India starting from school going kids to 110 year old > know> about > > > > his vision, his plans and his burning desire for the Country > AND ITS > > > > DEVELOPMENT. If we talk about the world starting from CHINA > to the > > country > > > > that ANY BODY mention, The universe know and if they have > conscious> they > > > > remember HIM and pray with FOLDED HANDS. > > > > > > > > I hope none of you feel, contradict and murmur if I quote, > > > > Too err is human, and what if late Mr. Nehru err in few > cases if any > > > > (anybody point or feel) after all Mr. Nehru too a human. > Late Mr. > > Nehru > > > > ruled INDIA as per the constitution written under the > stewardship of > > Mr. > > > > Ambedkar in a better way as that of any body all times. (Of > course> > > Indirapriyadarsini as well). > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *radhikarajen at vsnl.net* wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, all. > > > > > > > > All said and done, let us not forget that Mohandas > Karamchand gandhi > > was > > > > as human as all of us, and he had greater vision of free > India which > > did not > > > > include divided national boundaries on the faith, and > Nethaji Subhash > > was > > > > popularly elected president of then plenary session of > Indian national > > > > Congress, in 1939, it is different matter that " High > Command " then > > chose > > > > Jawahar Nehru to be president., over the popular choice of > nethaji.> > > > > > > Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault lines as all > of us, > > > > reluctantly agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus > Pakistan> was > > > > born as free India emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS > THE NATION, > > WHICH > > > > SAW THE SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND > > MUSLIMS, > > > > SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? > > > > > > > > THIRDLY,GANDHIJI WAS IN FREE iNDIA NEVER ASPIRED FOR ANY > POWER OR > > > > POSITION lIKE NEHRU WHO WANTED TO SIDELINE EVERYBODY AND BE > prime> minister > > > > HIMSELF. His greed for position and favour and nepotism and > dynastical> > > fervour is seen in free India. > > > > Gandhiji never "helped" his progeny to be "leaders" like the > Rajeevs> and > > > > Indiras of nehru dynasty All said and done, Gandhiji was > good human, > > with > > > > good morals and ethics unlike his betenoire, Nehru, debauch, > selfish,> never > > > > cared for kashmiri displaced brothers. > > > > Regards.. > > > > From: we wi > > > > Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:38 pm > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > > > > To: Partha Dasgupta , Pawan Durani > > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > > > > > > > > Partha, > > > > > > > > > > Mahatma gandhi was in 1900 around and this is 2000. Kindly > > > > > note the difference in everything. > > > > > > > > > > >>>a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or > otherwise. I > > > > > just follow > > > > > >>>what I believe is right. > > > > > > > > > > What if somebody or everybody feel wrong about that. Will you > > > > > reconsider it or still proceed in the same way. Whatever > be the > > > > > case you must be either intellectual or an idiot. I really > sorry> > > > to say this. > > > > > > > > > > >>>b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only > > > > > breed hate and > > > > > >>>more violence and can not be a solution. > > > > > > > > > > "violence is the only solution for violence." > > > > > you should question both quarreling parties instead of asking > > > > > only one. Listen their answers understand them and then start > > > > > believing anything. > > > > > > > > > > >>>d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, > what I do > > > > > or profess to > > > > > >>>here is not to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone > on this > > > > > list except my cousin > > > > > >>>who introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who > thinks> > > > what of me. > > > > > >>>Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and > > > > > engaging in a > > > > > >>>debate when I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > > > > > > > > > What do your cousin feel about youself??? > > > > > > > > > > JAI HIND INDIA. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > > > > Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or > otherwise. I just > > > > > followwhat I believe is right. > > > > > > > > > > b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only breed > > > > > hate and > > > > > more violence and > > > > > can not be a solution. > > > > > > > > > > c) I have no idea what 'filth' you refer to about Asit > (presume> > > > that is > > > > > 'AsitRed'). However, > > > > > must admit that I rarely read what he writes as he writes > in a block > > > > > without > > > > > punctuation or paras that I find impossible to comprehend. > > > > > > > > > > d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, what I > do or > > > > > profess to > > > > > here is not > > > > > to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone on this list > except my > > > > > cousinwho > > > > > introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who thinks > what of > > me. > > > > > Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and > engaging> > > > in a > > > > > debate when > > > > > I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > > > > > > > > > e) Why do you always by-pass the point in contention - > that is - > > > > > are you > > > > > proposing that > > > > > the solution to Yasin Malik and the violence in J&K is more > > > > > violence - > > > > > because that is > > > > > what is coming out from your responses and your avoiding > the moot > > > > > pointof the debate. > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > ..................... > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Partha , > > > > > > > > > > > > Among many Pseudo secular over here , i still continued > to trust > > > > > you to > > > > > > some extent. However I must admit that you too ,like > others in > > > > > the bunch, > > > > > > maintain double standards. > > > > > > > > > > > > You had no words when the Asit ( Lal Salaam) , writes filth > > against > > > > > > Kashmiri Hindus , while as you always seem to be ready > at the > > > > > start up line > > > > > > of 100 mts once Kashmiri Muslim terrorists are discussed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Disappointed ! > > > > > > > > > > > > Pawan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That still doesn't answer the question: Do you think > that the > > only > > > > > > > response to violence should be violence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because, if so, there will never be an end to the > struggle - > > > > > just more > > > > > > > death and hate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > ................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And neither Have Kashmiri Hindus ever believed in > Violence> > > > ......But> > > again we have no love for a > Psycopath killer like > > > > > Yasine> > > > > > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you are not saying that because you consider > > > > > Yasin Malik a > > > > > > > > > "killer/terrorist" that the only language he will > > > > > understand is your > > > > > > > > > shooting / killing him in the same manner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do try and remember that the nation of India > achieved it's > > > > > freedom> > > > through Mahatma Gandhi who did NOT fight > back with > > > > > violence. One of the > > > > > > > > > reasons he's considered the "Father of the Nation'... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Pawan Durani < > > > > > > > > > pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what manner of protest would a killer /terrorist > > > > > understand ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just Curious ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know about the feet licking part (always > > > > > considered it > > > > > > > > > > > unhygienic), > > > > > > > > > > > however, I do like the idea of peace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you don't disagree with the concept > of peace > > > > > in J&K? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the "piece of mind" bit - well, that's > > > > > something all > > > > > > > > > > > public figures > > > > > > > > > > > have to live with - some people agree and some > don't.> > > > If it > > > > > > > > > > > makes you > > > > > > > > > > > happier to see people fighting and shouting, > then I > > would > > > > > > > > > > > certainly disagree > > > > > > > > > > > in the manner of protest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Aditya Raj > Kaul < > > > > > > > > > > > kauladityaraj at gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God Bless Terrorist Yasin Malik of JKLF - The > > > > > organiser of > > > > > > > > > > > this session of > > > > > > > > > > > > brainwashing. May God as well bless people > who lick > > > > > his feet > > > > > > > > > > > in Delhi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Your Information, Yasin was given a good > piece> > > > of mind > > > > > > > > > > > inside and > > > > > > > > > > > > outside the venue of the India Today > Conclave 2008 > > > > > where he > > > > > > > > > > > was a guest > > > > > > > > > > > > speaker. For more information and pictures; > visit:> > > > > > > > > > > www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/08, inder salim wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: S. Jabbar > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 1:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: sheba > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: Binalakshmi Nepram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > JKLF presents: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Voices of Peace, Voices of Freedom > > > > > > > > > > > > > Photo and video exhibition of JKLFs > Historic 114 day > > > > > > > > > > > > > nonviolent march through the valley of Kashmir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: March 19,2008. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Time: 11 am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venue: Indian Social Institute, > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 Institutional Area > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lodi Road > > > > > > > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maqbool Manzil,Maisooma,Srinagar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contact:2474882-2481844, > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklfkashmir.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklf.org.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > > > > > the city. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject > > header. > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list> > > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > > > > > the city. > > > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > subscribe in the > subject header. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list> > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media > and the > > > > > city.> > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > > request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list> > > > > > > > > > List archive: > list/>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > +919811047132 > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > > > > list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > > > > > Yahoo! Search. > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > request at sarai.net with > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > > > > list > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.< > > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > +919811047132 > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of > Blockbuster> > Total Access< > > > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47523/*http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com> >, > > > No Cost. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Partha Dasgupta > > +919811047132 > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: From radhikarajen at vsnl.net Tue Apr 8 18:51:59 2008 From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net (radhikarajen at vsnl.net) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:21:59 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fear and Loathing in Big Cities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: My dear sister Fathima and her post was very thought provoking. But let us be honest to see the facts in the right perspective, is it not true that poor muslims are second grade citizens like all others in other faiths divided by castes. But the difference ends there, the poor in other faith do not resort to violence at the flimsy excuse if the pizza carrying vehicle touches their children playing on the roads, they are not out immediately in groups to demand money for the accident.They do not loot with mob power.Hard working individuals irrespective of their faith always see success in life inspite of bad systemic flaws of vote bank governance,that is how one can see yarn merchant Ambani and his next generation in wealth.But unfortunately, many muslims think that their zakath is only legal and not taxes a citizens have to pay, but they want "subsidy" even when the HOLY script says you travel with your honest hard earned money. A system of governance which delivers good governance to ALL in society with fair and just form is the democracy, but do we have it in place. ?Citizens are divided in to groups of castes, minorities and "mahorities and ultimately, a minority rules the citizens defying the oath of governance, with all fear, with all unfair means for the votes, unless all citizens irrespective of faith unite as a single society this game will go on, appeasing one section of citizens at the cost of other sections of the society. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 6:53 pm Subject: [Reader-list] Fear and Loathing in Big Cities To: sarai list > Dear Fatima, Naeem dear all, > > Thanks for your posts on pizza delivery and fear and loathing in > big > cities, and how New York and New Delhi, when it comes to the sharp > > edge of exclusion, can seem like shadows of each other. I recently > > saw something in the Delhi edition of the Indian Express that I > think > would be of interest to the ensuing discussion. Its about a wall. > No, > Its not in Palestine, but in South Delhi. I thought it would echo > > (from a different angle) some of the thoughts being expressed in > Naeem and Fatima's posts. > > best > > Shuddha > > --------------------------------------- > Great Wall of Kalkaji > Preeti Jha, Indian Express > Posted online: Saturday , April 05, 2008 at 11:51:20 > http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Great-Wall-of-Kalkaji/292736/ > > New Delhi, April 04 Construction of a five-foot wall to divide a > slum > cluster from neighbouring middle-class colonies is wreaking havoc > in > south Delhi’s Kalkaji Extension. > > Standing in the remnants of her grocery store, Seema Sagar watches > as > a young boy jumps from one mound of debris to another, before > precariously balancing on a stray brick. All this to safely cross > the > stream of sewage that now floats outside her house. > > On Monday, bulldozers razed down more than 1,000 small shops and > homes to make way for a wall that will encircle all three camps in > > the slum cluster: Bhumiheen, Nehru and Navjeevan. Four hundred > metres > of the proposed 2-km wall are already in place, under construction > by > the Delhi Development Authority (DDA) since December. “We are > acting > on an order from the High Court,” says DDA’s executive engineer K > K > Khanna. > > And the High Court was responding to a petition filed by Arsh > Avtaar > Singh, former president of Kohinoor Apartments’ Resident Welfare > Association, in May 2005. The petition sought a solution against > encroachment of roads and services by slum residents. > > ‘Block them out’ > Neighbouring middle-class colonies support Singh’s efforts. A flat- > > owner from nearby Konark Apartments, who does not want to be > named, > says: “All my life savings have been used to purchase this flat. > For > 22 years I have lived with the stink from open defecation, and > constant over-crowding from blocked roads.” > > Residents want slum dwellers to be relocated in ‘pukka’ housing. > “I > feel bad for them,” says Singh, whose own domestic help lives in > Bhumiheen Camp. “They should be given an alternative home > immediately.” > But the DDA claims it needs time to relocate the slum dwellers. > “The > wall is a temporary arrangement to offer protection to flat > owners,” > Khanna says. > > In the interim, Daliwal thinks the wall should be built higher. > “It > should be at least eight foot high, and built either with bricks, > or > grills and mesh. There should also be fewer outlets.” > > ‘Livelihood gone’ > The camp’s residents, though, are fuming. “We were given no > warning,” > says Sagar. She claims to have bought her grocery shop for Rs > 20,000 > rupees 13 years ago. “I make Rs 50 a day, through which I cook for > my > family. We have nothing to eat today without my shop.” > > Trying to salvage broken chairs and cutlery from his former > confectionery store, Izhar Ali asks, “What should I do to earn? > Can > the government give me an alternative?” > > As an MCD employee sprays mosquito repellent into stagnant water > forming pools around the newly homeless, Kamla Ujhain forlornly > watches her grandchildren eat in what used to be a bathroom. “We > knew > it would close our businesses,” says Maya Devi, peering outside > her > shop, now shrouded by bricks. “And what if there’s a fire?” asks > another shopkeeper, Naresh Kumar. “It will be much harder to > escape > if we are contained from all sides.” > > DDA’s Khanna, meanwhile, insists there will be several entry and > exit > points in the wall. “There are more than 17 gaps in the 400-metre > stretch built so far,” he says. > > DDA has a May 21 deadline for building the wall. > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net >www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: From parthaekka at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 18:56:50 2008 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 18:56:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition In-Reply-To: References: <32144e990803260907v50c3713ne24e3cf669c462f@mail.gmail.com> <32144e990804070911h65c27fdax302e0d90d12b39e7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690804070937x50e2dc60h5597fe26f3a5046@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32144e990804080626l5662e4a1t1278b51b7b5cd17f@mail.gmail.com> Dear Radhikarajen, 1. On the issue of Kashmiri Migrants, I am not quoting myself, or even the UNDP or any other UN body as they are not the law in India. I have used the term from the official site of the J&K Govt, which does happen to be the official source. Or is that being denied? 2. When you look at refugees / migrants, etc, what are you referring to? Forget 1970. When the partition happened, a lot of people migrated to India. By the Bangladesh yardstick you are using, even those who came from the nascent Pakistan to India should be refugees - which also happens to be the birth place of many in all political parties including the BJP. 3. The 'Italian' that seems to bother you so much was married to an Indian, has lived as an Indian in India for more years than many of those on this list have been alive, and has lost her mother-in-law as well as her husband to terrorists for our country. Much as I may disagree with many things she may do, with what she has had to give up for India, I disagree with you that she is an outsider. We call a person who is born out of this country an Indian though s/he may have done nothing for this country and can barely speak the language even though it's their mother tongue. However, here I guess it is easy to raise the 'foreigner' bogey and change the topic when it becomes uncomfortable. 4. Finally, to get back to the point of this debate. Why are all calls for the death of Yasin Malik and others. How many mails have you seen on this list that refer to the Kashmiri Pandits returning? I can recall none, but I certainly recall many about death sentences. If the whole point is revenge, and not about the return to what is claimed as a lost home, I certainly see no love of the lost home, but instead a love for more death. Rgds, Partha ......................................... On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:30 PM, wrote: > Well, the individuals and their families are not migrants, in 1947 with > adventure of the two nation concept, the citizens were driven out by muscle > power and violence, falsifying the promise that all will live like good > brothers in free India. > Pity is that the forced individuals are even today refugees, the refugees > of bangladesh are citizens who fled in 1970 onwards, fortunately they > happen to be vote banks., that too with fake ration cards. > > Today the individuals from Kashmir do migrate for business with artefacts > and apparels, they can be seen in metros like Chennai, Bangaluru, Mumbai, > but unfortunately we have to be looking at them with cynical eyes as some of > them indulge in all anti societal activities. Individuals who seek to work > with dignity and integrity, for the society any where in India are citizens > of India, but those who work for propagation of faith like the > missionaries, who along with service , do propagate that only their god is > "saviour " is shame on tolerent society.Because they try to increase the > number of votes of the "faith" not law abiding citizens, that is the reason > an italian can rule the nation by proxy.She came as wife, but now she wnats > to loot for her "family" typical mafia style, with sycophants and hangers on > licking the butter, forgetting that that is how Nation was in slavery. > > Regards. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Aditya Raj Kaul > Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 10:08 pm > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > > Partha or anybody else, > > > > Dare you call us all victims of genocide and ethnic cleansing - > > "KashmiriMigrants". We didn't leave by our own will nor did we go > > out in search of > > livelihood. It was a forced migration due to sudden rise of Islamic > > Fundamentalism and violence. And if you really want to get > > enligtened read > > the various Article's of United Nations. We do qualify to be > > InternallyDisplaced People (IDP's). Hope you understand that. > > > > May God Bless you on the first day of Navreh (Kashmiri Pandit New > > Year) > > Regards > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > Campaign Blog - www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com > > > > On 4/7/08, Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > > > > > Dear Dhatri, > > > > > > a) On the issue of 'Kashmiri Migrants' I would suggest you > > check the > > > Govt > > > site which > > just happens > > > to be the official site of the J&K Govt - and the phrase is > > used a > > > number > > > of times - officially. Unless, of course, you have started a > > unique> dictionary > > > of your own. > > > > > > b) From your phrasing, it seems you are in support of Jihad, > > and killing. > > > Do confirm if this is true, and who/how will you define your > > 'Rakshas'> > > > c) If you had read Radhikarajen's mail, you would have seen the > > point> that > > > was being made instead of going off on right angles about > > Gandhiji and > > > the Muslim League. > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > ........................ > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 7:52 PM, we wi wrote: > > > > > > > Dear Partha, > > > > > > > > HAPPY NEW YEAR! > > > > > > > > As I was busy with some matters, I am unable to respond > > your mail. > > > > My mail was very much related to the debate, as this is a > > response to > > > > radhikarajen mail. > > > > > > > > Next on your points, > > > > > > > > >>a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to Kashmir > > > (which > > > > can only > > > > happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) > > or living > > > in > > > > a > > > > hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking > > for death. > > > > > > > > First and foremost please avoid the term MIGRATION within > > > INDIA. Kashmiri > > > > Pundits do have exclusive rights over KASHMIR because its > > their birth > > > > place, since their ancestors. No body can do anything over this! > > > > > > > > >>b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being > > > > oblivious to everything > > > > else will solve anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > Its nothing to do with my feeling or your feeling, but the actual > > > scenario > > > > is entirely different there and it is because of JIHAD and its > > > > supporters. Even RAMA,KRISHNA killed RAKHASAS. > > Emperors,kings whoever > > > > ruled INDIA from EPIC AGE TO MODERN > rule,british rule> > > > did > > > > the same. Irrespective of time RAKSHASAS SHOULD BE KILLED. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > *Partha Dasgupta * wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Dhatri, > > > > > > > > As usual, you have completely ignored the debate and gone off > > on an > > > > unrelated tangent. > > > > > > > > All that we are clarifying here is: > > > > > > > > a) What is more important, getting the migrants back to > > Kashmir (which > > > > can only > > > > happen after there is a measure of peace - and not hate) > > or living > > > in > > > > a > > > > hate-blinded stupor that only allows you to keep asking > > for death. > > > > > > > > b) Do you really believe that continuing the killing and being > > > oblivious > > > > to everything > > > > else will solve anything. > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > ............................................. > > > > > > > > On 3/26/08, we wi wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear All, > > > > > > > > > > Though I am not a great personality to talk about HISTORY, > > PAST and > > > > > interested as well, but If I ask a very basic question with mere > > > innocence > > > > > over this > > > > > > > > > > >>Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault > > lines as all > > > of > > > > > us, reluctantly > > > > > >>agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus > > Pakistan was > > > > > born as free India > > > > > >>emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS THE NATION, > > WHICH SAW > > > > > THE > > > > > >>SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND > > > MUSLIMS, > > > > > > > > > > >>SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? > > > > > > > > > > What happen if late Mr.M.K.Gandhi disagrees for the > > division of > > > the > > > > > nation on faith? > > > > > Let us discuss pros and cons over this. Probably the same > > amount of > > > > > casualties (after Partition) could have happened as a result of > > > > > disagreement, but they are for time being (i.e., once and > > for all) > > > only. > > > > > There should not be any troubles, whatever the country (I > > MEAN INDIA > > > AS A > > > > > NATION) has been suffering and facing (since 60 years) from all > > > > > directions. > > > > > > > > > > I would like to question MUSLIM LEAGUE ROLE over SUB-CONTINENT > > > > > INDEPENDENCE, their leaders' sacrifices as that of ... (as there > > > > > are in-numerous HINDU patriots, I could not mention just one or > > > 2). It is > > > > > clear that Mr. JINNAH AND HIS PUPPETS with cunning BRITISH BACK > > > > > ENJOYED/ENTHRALLED the POWER and LAND freely. If 2 nation > > theory> failed so > > > > > utterly why was a SEPARATE COUNTRY CALLED PAKISTAN IS STILL > > SURVIVING> with > > > > > OCCUPIED, GIFTED INDIAN TERRITORIES TO CHINA? > > > > > > > > > > --Coming back to late Mr. JAWAHARLAL NEHRU, > > > > > > > > > > 1) HE DIDN'T HAIL FROM ANY DYNASTY. LIKE EVERY > > FATHER, HIS > > > > > FATHER SENT HIM TO LONDON FOR HIGHER STUDIES. THE RICHNESS > > COMES FROM > > > HIS > > > > > FATHERS' THEN PROFESSION. AS HE WAS INTELLIGENT, HE > > FLOURISHED IN > > > STUDIES > > > > > AND IN POLITICS AS WELL. WHAT WE believe > > > > > > > > > > a) LATE Mr. NEHRU WAS CHEATED BY EVERYBODY (BRITISH, FRIENDS, > > > > > SECULARISTS, INTELLECTUALS AND THEN CHINA) like India WAS > > CHEATED AND > > > ROBBED > > > > > BY INVADERS. How? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As a CASTE RIDDEN INDIAN SOCIETY (WHY RACISM WAS IS SO > > POPULAR IN > > > > > WESTERN WORLD. Where does it come from? ARE THEY JUST STEAL > > it from > > > India > > > > > after invasions like anything? Why did they fail to > > eradicate it?) > > > AND > > > > > NOBODY WILLING TO LOOSE THEIR CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS, > > > > > > > > > > Why late Mr. NEHRU was chosen/influenced to give away his > > daughter,> > > INDIRAPRIYADARSINI to a PARSI BRIDEGROOM? Is > > Mr.M.K.GANDHI or > > > > > Mr.JINNAH feared to do so (As both were having sons and > > > daughters)? What > > > > > was then SOCIETY (INTELLECTUAL OR ORDINARY) silent and play a > > > spectators > > > > > role over this? > > > > > > > > > > --Finally What Mr. Nehru did to whom? > > > > > > > > > > Entire India starting from school going kids to 110 year old > > know> about > > > > > his vision, his plans and his burning desire for the Country > > AND ITS > > > > > DEVELOPMENT. If we talk about the world starting from CHINA > > to the > > > country > > > > > that ANY BODY mention, The universe know and if they have > > conscious> they > > > > > remember HIM and pray with FOLDED HANDS. > > > > > > > > > > I hope none of you feel, contradict and murmur if I quote, > > > > > Too err is human, and what if late Mr. Nehru err in few > > cases if any > > > > > (anybody point or feel) after all Mr. Nehru too a human. > > Late Mr. > > > Nehru > > > > > ruled INDIA as per the constitution written under the > > stewardship of > > > Mr. > > > > > Ambedkar in a better way as that of any body all times. (Of > > course> > > Indirapriyadarsini as well). > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *radhikarajen at vsnl.net* wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, all. > > > > > > > > > > All said and done, let us not forget that Mohandas > > Karamchand gandhi > > > was > > > > > as human as all of us, and he had greater vision of free > > India which > > > did not > > > > > include divided national boundaries on the faith, and > > Nethaji Subhash > > > was > > > > > popularly elected president of then plenary session of > > Indian national > > > > > Congress, in 1939, it is different matter that " High > > Command " then > > > chose > > > > > Jawahar Nehru to be president., over the popular choice of > > nethaji.> > > > > > > > Secondly, Gandhiji, being human had human fault lines as all > > of us, > > > > > reluctantly agreed for division of the nation on faith, thus > > Pakistan> was > > > > > born as free India emerged, to a remark of nethaJI THAT IS > > THE NATION, > > > WHICH > > > > > SAW THE SACRIFICES OF MILLIONS OF INDIANS BOTH FROM HINDUS AND > > > MUSLIMS, > > > > > SHOULD BE DIVIDED AS IF BOUNTY OF A LOOT. ? > > > > > > > > > > THIRDLY,GANDHIJI WAS IN FREE iNDIA NEVER ASPIRED FOR ANY > > POWER OR > > > > > POSITION lIKE NEHRU WHO WANTED TO SIDELINE EVERYBODY AND BE > > prime> minister > > > > > HIMSELF. His greed for position and favour and nepotism and > > dynastical> > > fervour is seen in free India. > > > > > Gandhiji never "helped" his progeny to be "leaders" like the > > Rajeevs> and > > > > > Indiras of nehru dynasty All said and done, Gandhiji was > > good human, > > > with > > > > > good morals and ethics unlike his betenoire, Nehru, debauch, > > selfish,> never > > > > > cared for kashmiri displaced brothers. > > > > > Regards.. > > > > > From: we wi > > > > > Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:38 pm > > > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fwd: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > > > > > To: Partha Dasgupta , Pawan Durani > > > > > Cc: reader-list at sarai.net > > > > > > > > > > > Partha, > > > > > > > > > > > > Mahatma gandhi was in 1900 around and this is 2000. Kindly > > > > > > note the difference in everything. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or > > otherwise. I > > > > > > just follow > > > > > > >>>what I believe is right. > > > > > > > > > > > > What if somebody or everybody feel wrong about that. Will you > > > > > > reconsider it or still proceed in the same way. Whatever > > be the > > > > > > case you must be either intellectual or an idiot. I really > > sorry> > > > to say this. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only > > > > > > breed hate and > > > > > > >>>more violence and can not be a solution. > > > > > > > > > > > > "violence is the only solution for violence." > > > > > > you should question both quarreling parties instead of asking > > > > > > only one. Listen their answers understand them and then start > > > > > > believing anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > >>>d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, > > what I do > > > > > > or profess to > > > > > > >>>here is not to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone > > on this > > > > > > list except my cousin > > > > > > >>>who introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who > > thinks> > > > what of me. > > > > > > >>>Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and > > > > > > engaging in a > > > > > > >>>debate when I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > > > > > > > > > > > What do your cousin feel about youself??? > > > > > > > > > > > > JAI HIND INDIA. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Dhatri. > > > > > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta wrote: > > > > > > Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > > > a) Never claimed to be a 'secularist', pseudo or > > otherwise. I just > > > > > > followwhat I believe is right. > > > > > > > > > > > > b) I firmly believe that the cycle of violence will only breed > > > > > > hate and > > > > > > more violence and > > > > > > can not be a solution. > > > > > > > > > > > > c) I have no idea what 'filth' you refer to about Asit > > (presume> > > > that is > > > > > > 'AsitRed'). However, > > > > > > must admit that I rarely read what he writes as he writes > > in a block > > > > > > without > > > > > > punctuation or paras that I find impossible to comprehend. > > > > > > > > > > > > d) As for double standards and your dissapointment, what I > > do or > > > > > > profess to > > > > > > here is not > > > > > > to make or lose friends. Don't know anyone on this list > > except my > > > > > > cousinwho > > > > > > introduced me, and really couldn't be bothered who thinks > > what of > > > me. > > > > > > Am here for the sole purpose of knowing view points and > > engaging> > > > in a > > > > > > debate when > > > > > > I find it interesting (and if I have the time). > > > > > > > > > > > > e) Why do you always by-pass the point in contention - > > that is - > > > > > > are you > > > > > > proposing that > > > > > > the solution to Yasin Malik and the violence in J&K is more > > > > > > violence - > > > > > > because that is > > > > > > what is coming out from your responses and your avoiding > > the moot > > > > > > pointof the debate. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > ..................... > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Partha , > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Among many Pseudo secular over here , i still continued > > to trust > > > > > > you to > > > > > > > some extent. However I must admit that you too ,like > > others in > > > > > > the bunch, > > > > > > > maintain double standards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You had no words when the Asit ( Lal Salaam) , writes filth > > > against > > > > > > > Kashmiri Hindus , while as you always seem to be ready > > at the > > > > > > start up line > > > > > > > of 100 mts once Kashmiri Muslim terrorists are discussed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Disappointed ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pawan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That still doesn't answer the question: Do you think > > that the > > > only > > > > > > > > response to violence should be violence? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because, if so, there will never be an end to the > > struggle - > > > > > > just more > > > > > > > > death and hate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > > ................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:09 PM, Pawan Durani > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And neither Have Kashmiri Hindus ever believed in > > Violence> > > > ......But> > > again we have no love for a > > Psycopath killer like > > > > > > Yasine> > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/19/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Pawan, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you are not saying that because you consider > > > > > > Yasin Malik a > > > > > > > > > > "killer/terrorist" that the only language he will > > > > > > understand is your > > > > > > > > > > shooting / killing him in the same manner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do try and remember that the nation of India > > achieved it's > > > > > > freedom> > > > through Mahatma Gandhi who did NOT fight > > back with > > > > > > violence. One of the > > > > > > > > > > reasons he's considered the "Father of the Nation'... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 3:09 PM, Pawan Durani < > > > > > > > > > > pawan.durani at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what manner of protest would a killer /terrorist > > > > > > understand ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just Curious ...... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/18/08, Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know about the feet licking part (always > > > > > > considered it > > > > > > > > > > > > unhygienic), > > > > > > > > > > > > however, I do like the idea of peace. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I do hope you don't disagree with the concept > > of peace > > > > > > in J&K? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for the "piece of mind" bit - well, that's > > > > > > something all > > > > > > > > > > > > public figures > > > > > > > > > > > > have to live with - some people agree and some > > don't.> > > > If it > > > > > > > > > > > > makes you > > > > > > > > > > > > happier to see people fighting and shouting, > > then I > > > would > > > > > > > > > > > > certainly disagree > > > > > > > > > > > > in the manner of protest. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, Partha > > > > > > > > > > > > ...................................... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Aditya Raj > > Kaul < > > > > > > > > > > > > kauladityaraj at gmail.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > God Bless Terrorist Yasin Malik of JKLF - The > > > > > > organiser of > > > > > > > > > > > > this session of > > > > > > > > > > > > > brainwashing. May God as well bless people > > who lick > > > > > > his feet > > > > > > > > > > > > in Delhi. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For Your Information, Yasin was given a good > > piece> > > > of mind > > > > > > > > > > > > inside and > > > > > > > > > > > > > outside the venue of the India Today > > Conclave 2008 > > > > > > where he > > > > > > > > > > > > was a guest > > > > > > > > > > > > > speaker. For more information and pictures; > > visit:> > > > > > > > > > > www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aditya Raj Kaul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/17/08, inder salim wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: S. Jabbar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 1:49 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: FW: JKLF Historic Exhibition > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: sheba > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cc: Binalakshmi Nepram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JKLF presents: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Voices of Peace, Voices of Freedom > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Photo and video exhibition of JKLFs > > Historic 114 day > > > > > > > > > > > > > > nonviolent march through the valley of Kashmir > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: March 19,2008. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Time: 11 am > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Venue: Indian Social Institute, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10 Institutional Area > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lodi Road > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New Delhi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maqbool Manzil,Maisooma,Srinagar, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contact:2474882-2481844, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklfkashmir.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.jklf.org.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------ End of Forwarded Message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - -- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and > > > > > > the city. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > > > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > > subscribe in the subject > > > header. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > list> > > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > > media and > > > > > > the city. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > > > request at sarai.netwith> > > > > > > subscribe in the > > subject header. > > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > list> > > > > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media > > and the > > > > > > city.> > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > > > > > request at sarai.netwith subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > list> > > > > > > > > > List archive: > list/>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > > > +919... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > > > +919811047132 > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > request at sarai.net with > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > > > > > list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > > > > > > Yahoo! Search. > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list- > > request at sarai.net with > > > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > > > To unsubscribe: > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > > > > > list > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.< > > > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > > +919811047132 > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of > > Blockbuster> > Total Access< > > > > > > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=47523/*http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com> > >, > > > > No Cost. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Partha Dasgupta > > > +919811047132 > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From radhikarajen at vsnl.net Tue Apr 8 19:00:01 2008 From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net (radhikarajen at vsnl.net) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:30:01 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] No Pizzas for Muslims (of Jamia Nagar) In-Reply-To: <632909.23204.qm@web8415.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <632909.23204.qm@web8415.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Behen Fathima, without going into blame games which is favourite past time of all debates, my respectful submission is all driving vehicles in muslim dominated areas know the harrowing experience of driving any vehicle in ghettos. A slight touch to a child who loves to play on the road, whole mohalla joins to harass and dispence mob justice. It is true that poor irrespective of their faith are recollected only at the time of elections, for slogan shouting on daily wages. After the budget you might have seen the "farmers" bundled out in vehicles for shouting the slogans for the queen and the prince of India. !That is the democracy in free India, where irrespective of faith or catse every citizen is not had the opportunity in life to have dignified living., education or life skills to earn. More divided the society, more are the chances of autocratic rule, not rule of laws, but rule of muscle and money power.! Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: "S.Fatima" Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 10:41 am Subject: [Reader-list] No Pizzas for Muslims (of Jamia Nagar) To: sarai > Fast-food chains don't deliver in Delhi's Muslim > ghetto > > Fast-food chains like Domino's and McDonald's usually > refuse home delivery in Jamia Nagar (in Delhi > city)even though this dominantly Muslim neighbourhood, > famed for its Jamia Islamia University, is close to > their New Friends Colony (NFC) outlets. By the way, > Jamia Nagar is not just another unplanned stinky > ghetto--it has wide roads, spacious houses, and proper > addresses. (See the story: Jamia Nagar - Delhi's Rich > Muslim Ghetto) > > "We don't deliver there," was the reply when The Delhi > Walla called up Domino's (011-26933951-56) at NFC. > Different responses on different calls: "we are > sorry", or "we haven't started our service there yet." > > > Ditto with McDonald's. "There are areas we don't > deliver to and Jamia Nagar is one of them," says the > lady manning the McDelivery desk. According to > McDonald's India North & East, "McDelivery ascertain > the delivery area on various internal assessments > including the convenience and safe accessibility of > the area within the permissible timeframe." > > OK, fair enough. > > It takes less then 10 minutes to drive to Jamia Nagar > from McDoanld's. So is the place not safe enough? An > unusually forthcoming employee at Domino's said, "It's > not a good area. We deliver there only to special > customers." > > Who are these mysterious special customers? > > At least author Ms. Rakshanda Jalil, a Jamia Nagar > resident who recently had luminaries like Khushwant > Singh and Sheila Dikshit (Delhi Chief Minister no > less) attending her book launch, is not special > enough. She couldn't coax Domino's to deliver Veggie > Delight with extra olives for her two daughters. > > "They go to faraway blocks of New Friends Colony and > were delivering as far as Sarita Vihar but they won't > come here which is closer", says Ms. Jalil. > > Now listen to the outlets' unofficial excuses: > "customers there don't pay", "addresses are usually > given wrong", and--this takes the pizza—"The Jamia > University students forcibly take pizza boxes from > delivery boys." > > Then why is Pizza Hut able to deliver, and deliver > successfully, to Jamia Nagar? > > A quick phone call put things in perspective. Yes, > Pizza Hut does deliver in Jamia Nagar. Yes, they have > never faced problems. But sorry, they don't deliver > after 7 pm. Reason? Traffic jam! Really? That's > laughable. Jamia is essentially an university campus > with verdant grounds and quiet libraries. Hardly the > stuff traffic jams are made of. > > Ms. Jalil says, "Nobody uses the M word. But clearly, > they don't go 'out there' because a different sort of > species resides out there!" > > Achha, those Mussalmaans! > > > ------------------- > from: > http://thedelhiwalla.blogspot.com/2008/04/dateline-jamia-nagar-no- > pizzas-for.html > > > Explore your hobbies and interests. Go to > http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/_________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: From parthaekka at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 19:04:26 2008 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:04:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fear and Loathing in Big Cities In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32144e990804080634s1603e701se00361831c7ea72e@mail.gmail.com> Dear Radhikarajen, While generalising about Muslims, do read the Times of India of today where a Dalit widow was stripped and made to eat excreta because she visited a temple. As for taxes, I'm sure you see many businessmen (and I can't remember knowing any who doesn't) who use all legal loopholes as well as many illegal loopholes to avoid taxes. Why do you think the Govt of India is so happy about record tax collections in this Hindu majority nation? It is more the habit of cutting off the poor and bricking them off. Sure, they are wanted as maids and servants, but the wall is built in between so that the affluent don't get to see / hear them. Like the gates that are coming up in colonies and blocking off parks and other utilities that are supposed to be community resources created by the government on government land. Rgds, Partha .............................. On 4/8/08, radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote: > > My dear sister Fathima and her post was very thought provoking. But let us > be honest to see the facts in the right perspective, is it not true that > poor muslims are second grade citizens like all others in other faiths > divided by castes. But the difference ends there, the poor in other faith do > not resort to violence at the flimsy excuse if the pizza carrying vehicle > touches their children playing on the roads, they are not out immediately in > groups to demand money for the accident.They do not loot with mob power.Hard > working individuals irrespective of their faith always see success in life > inspite of bad systemic flaws of vote bank governance,that is how one can > see yarn merchant Ambani and his next generation in wealth.But > unfortunately, many muslims think that their zakath is only legal and not > taxes a citizens have to pay, but they want "subsidy" even when the HOLY > script says you travel with your honest hard earned money. > A system of governance which delivers good governance to ALL in society > with fair and just form is the democracy, but do we have it in place. > ?Citizens are divided in to groups of castes, minorities and "mahorities > and ultimately, a minority rules the citizens defying the oath of > governance, with all fear, with all unfair means for the votes, unless all > citizens irrespective of faith unite as a single society this game will go > on, appeasing one section of citizens at the cost of other sections of the > society. > > Regards. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 6:53 pm > Subject: [Reader-list] Fear and Loathing in Big Cities > To: sarai list > > > Dear Fatima, Naeem dear all, > > > > Thanks for your posts on pizza delivery and fear and loathing in > > big > > cities, and how New York and New Delhi, when it comes to the sharp > > > > edge of exclusion, can seem like shadows of each other. I recently > > > > saw something in the Delhi edition of the Indian Express that I > > think > > would be of interest to the ensuing discussion. Its about a wall. > > No, > > Its not in Palestine, but in South Delhi. I thought it would echo > > > > (from a different angle) some of the thoughts being expressed in > > Naeem and Fatima's posts. > > > > best > > > > Shuddha > > > > --------------------------------------- > > Great Wall of Kalkaji > > Preeti Jha, Indian Express > > Posted online: Saturday , April 05, 2008 at 11:51:20 > > http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Great-Wall-of-Kalkaji/292736/ > > > > New Delhi, April 04 Construction of a five-foot wall to divide a > > slum > > cluster from neighbouring middle-class colonies is wreaking havoc > > in > > south Delhi's Kalkaji Extension. > > > > Standing in the remnants of her grocery store, Seema Sagar watches > > as > > a young boy jumps from one mound of debris to another, before > > precariously balancing on a stray brick. All this to safely cross > > the > > stream of sewage that now floats outside her house. > > > > On Monday, bulldozers razed down more than 1,000 small shops and > > homes to make way for a wall that will encircle all three camps in > > > > the slum cluster: Bhumiheen, Nehru and Navjeevan. Four hundred > > metres > > of the proposed 2-km wall are already in place, under construction > > by > > the Delhi Development Authority (DDA) since December. "We are > > acting > > on an order from the High Court," says DDA's executive engineer K > > K > > Khanna. > > > > And the High Court was responding to a petition filed by Arsh > > Avtaar > > Singh, former president of Kohinoor Apartments' Resident Welfare > > Association, in May 2005. The petition sought a solution against > > encroachment of roads and services by slum residents. > > > > 'Block them out' > > Neighbouring middle-class colonies support Singh's efforts. A flat- > > > > owner from nearby Konark Apartments, who does not want to be > > named, > > says: "All my life savings have been used to purchase this flat. > > For > > 22 years I have lived with the stink from open defecation, and > > constant over-crowding from blocked roads." > > > > Residents want slum dwellers to be relocated in 'pukka' housing. > > "I > > feel bad for them," says Singh, whose own domestic help lives in > > Bhumiheen Camp. "They should be given an alternative home > > immediately." > > But the DDA claims it needs time to relocate the slum dwellers. > > "The > > wall is a temporary arrangement to offer protection to flat > > owners," > > Khanna says. > > > > In the interim, Daliwal thinks the wall should be built higher. > > "It > > should be at least eight foot high, and built either with bricks, > > or > > grills and mesh. There should also be fewer outlets." > > > > 'Livelihood gone' > > The camp's residents, though, are fuming. "We were given no > > warning," > > says Sagar. She claims to have bought her grocery shop for Rs > > 20,000 > > rupees 13 years ago. "I make Rs 50 a day, through which I cook for > > my > > family. We have nothing to eat today without my shop." > > > > Trying to salvage broken chairs and cutlery from his former > > confectionery store, Izhar Ali asks, "What should I do to earn? > > Can > > the government give me an alternative?" > > > > As an MCD employee sprays mosquito repellent into stagnant water > > forming pools around the newly homeless, Kamla Ujhain forlornly > > watches her grandchildren eat in what used to be a bathroom. "We > > knew > > it would close our businesses," says Maya Devi, peering outside > > her > > shop, now shrouded by bricks. "And what if there's a fire?" asks > > another shopkeeper, Naresh Kumar. "It will be much harder to > > escape > > if we are contained from all sides." > > > > DDA's Khanna, meanwhile, insists there will be several entry and > > exit > > points in the wall. "There are more than 17 gaps in the 400-metre > > stretch built so far," he says. > > > > DDA has a May 21 deadline for building the wall. > > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > Raqs Media Collective > > shuddha at sarai.net > >www.sarai.net > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > list > > > List archive: > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From radhikarajen at vsnl.net Tue Apr 8 19:13:48 2008 From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net (radhikarajen at vsnl.net) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:43:48 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fear and Loathing in Big Cities In-Reply-To: <32144e990804080634s1603e701se00361831c7ea72e@mail.gmail.com> References: <32144e990804080634s1603e701se00361831c7ea72e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Partha, " generalising about muslims" is what you have percieved whereas my thoughts dwell on much ;arger issue of "GENERAL aam admi" irrepspective of faith or caste. Please, with a request to read and think for a while and then respond. Those who have it alll do flout the rules and as you rightly said avoid "legally", act illegally with all legal aid. ! ----- Original Message ----- From: Partha Dasgupta Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 7:04 pm Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fear and Loathing in Big Cities To: "radhikarajen at vsnl.net" Cc: Shuddhabrata Sengupta , sarai list > Dear Radhikarajen, > > While generalising about Muslims, do read the Times of India of > today where > a Dalit widow was stripped and made to eat excreta because she > visited a > temple. > > As for taxes, I'm sure you see many businessmen (and I can't remember > knowing any who doesn't) who use all legal loopholes as well as > many illegal > loopholes to avoid taxes. Why do you think the Govt of India is so > happyabout record tax collections in this Hindu majority nation? > > It is more the habit of cutting off the poor and bricking them > off. Sure, > they are wanted as maids and servants, but the wall is built in > between so > that the affluent don't get to see / hear them. Like the gates > that are > coming up in colonies and blocking off parks and other utilities > that are > supposed to be community resources created by the government on > governmentland. > > Rgds, Partha > .............................. > > On 4/8/08, radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote: > > > > My dear sister Fathima and her post was very thought provoking. > But let us > > be honest to see the facts in the right perspective, is it not > true that > > poor muslims are second grade citizens like all others in other > faiths> divided by castes. But the difference ends there, the poor > in other faith do > > not resort to violence at the flimsy excuse if the pizza > carrying vehicle > > touches their children playing on the roads, they are not out > immediately in > > groups to demand money for the accident.They do not loot with > mob power.Hard > > working individuals irrespective of their faith always see > success in life > > inspite of bad systemic flaws of vote bank governance,that is > how one can > > see yarn merchant Ambani and his next generation in wealth.But > > unfortunately, many muslims think that their zakath is only > legal and not > > taxes a citizens have to pay, but they want "subsidy" even when > the HOLY > > script says you travel with your honest hard earned money. > > A system of governance which delivers good governance to ALL in > society> with fair and just form is the democracy, but do we have > it in place. > > ?Citizens are divided in to groups of castes, minorities and > "mahorities> and ultimately, a minority rules the citizens defying > the oath of > > governance, with all fear, with all unfair means for the votes, > unless all > > citizens irrespective of faith unite as a single society this > game will go > > on, appeasing one section of citizens at the cost of other > sections of the > > society. > > > > Regards. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 6:53 pm > > Subject: [Reader-list] Fear and Loathing in Big Cities > > To: sarai list > > > > > Dear Fatima, Naeem dear all, > > > > > > Thanks for your posts on pizza delivery and fear and loathing in > > > big > > > cities, and how New York and New Delhi, when it comes to the sharp > > > > > > edge of exclusion, can seem like shadows of each other. I recently > > > > > > saw something in the Delhi edition of the Indian Express that I > > > think > > > would be of interest to the ensuing discussion. Its about a wall. > > > No, > > > Its not in Palestine, but in South Delhi. I thought it would echo > > > > > > (from a different angle) some of the thoughts being expressed in > > > Naeem and Fatima's posts. > > > > > > best > > > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > > > Great Wall of Kalkaji > > > Preeti Jha, Indian Express > > > Posted online: Saturday , April 05, 2008 at 11:51:20 > > > http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Great-Wall-of- > Kalkaji/292736/> > > > > New Delhi, April 04 Construction of a five-foot wall to divide a > > > slum > > > cluster from neighbouring middle-class colonies is wreaking havoc > > > in > > > south Delhi's Kalkaji Extension. > > > > > > Standing in the remnants of her grocery store, Seema Sagar watches > > > as > > > a young boy jumps from one mound of debris to another, before > > > precariously balancing on a stray brick. All this to safely cross > > > the > > > stream of sewage that now floats outside her house. > > > > > > On Monday, bulldozers razed down more than 1,000 small shops and > > > homes to make way for a wall that will encircle all three > camps in > > > > > > the slum cluster: Bhumiheen, Nehru and Navjeevan. Four hundred > > > metres > > > of the proposed 2-km wall are already in place, under construction > > > by > > > the Delhi Development Authority (DDA) since December. "We are > > > acting > > > on an order from the High Court," says DDA's executive > engineer K > > > K > > > Khanna. > > > > > > And the High Court was responding to a petition filed by Arsh > > > Avtaar > > > Singh, former president of Kohinoor Apartments' Resident Welfare > > > Association, in May 2005. The petition sought a solution against > > > encroachment of roads and services by slum residents. > > > > > > 'Block them out' > > > Neighbouring middle-class colonies support Singh's efforts. A > flat- > > > > > > owner from nearby Konark Apartments, who does not want to be > > > named, > > > says: "All my life savings have been used to purchase this flat. > > > For > > > 22 years I have lived with the stink from open defecation, and > > > constant over-crowding from blocked roads." > > > > > > Residents want slum dwellers to be relocated in 'pukka' housing. > > > "I > > > feel bad for them," says Singh, whose own domestic help lives in > > > Bhumiheen Camp. "They should be given an alternative home > > > immediately." > > > But the DDA claims it needs time to relocate the slum dwellers. > > > "The > > > wall is a temporary arrangement to offer protection to flat > > > owners," > > > Khanna says. > > > > > > In the interim, Daliwal thinks the wall should be built higher. > > > "It > > > should be at least eight foot high, and built either with bricks, > > > or > > > grills and mesh. There should also be fewer outlets." > > > > > > 'Livelihood gone' > > > The camp's residents, though, are fuming. "We were given no > > > warning," > > > says Sagar. She claims to have bought her grocery shop for Rs > > > 20,000 > > > rupees 13 years ago. "I make Rs 50 a day, through which I cook for > > > my > > > family. We have nothing to eat today without my shop." > > > > > > Trying to salvage broken chairs and cutlery from his former > > > confectionery store, Izhar Ali asks, "What should I do to earn? > > > Can > > > the government give me an alternative?" > > > > > > As an MCD employee sprays mosquito repellent into stagnant water > > > forming pools around the newly homeless, Kamla Ujhain forlornly > > > watches her grandchildren eat in what used to be a bathroom. "We > > > knew > > > it would close our businesses," says Maya Devi, peering outside > > > her > > > shop, now shrouded by bricks. "And what if there's a fire?" asks > > > another shopkeeper, Naresh Kumar. "It will be much harder to > > > escape > > > if we are contained from all sides." > > > > > > DDA's Khanna, meanwhile, insists there will be several entry and > > > exit > > > points in the wall. "There are more than 17 gaps in the 400-metre > > > stretch built so far," he says. > > > > > > DDA has a May 21 deadline for building the wall. > > > > > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > > Raqs Media Collective > > > shuddha at sarai.net > > >www.sarai.net > > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > > list > > > > > List archive: > > > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > > > > -- > Partha Dasgupta > +919811047132 > From radhikarajen at vsnl.net Tue Apr 8 19:19:12 2008 From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net (radhikarajen at vsnl.net) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2008 18:49:12 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] PDP's Delhi handlers! In-Reply-To: <4fcaee300804031427q576c6b4al2c911fac4b7fff3a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4fcaee300804031427q576c6b4al2c911fac4b7fff3a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, let the citizens of this free nation not forget that this same Mufti was the kingpin to get his daughter released and let go the fanatic terror king, now with one party next with another to have his game of separatism going on. Let us be honest and stop the blame game of Kandahar hijack, when system of governance did err in releasing the terrorists to save the life of 160 innocent fliers in that aircraft, whereas the game of blame is going on this madam embraced this Mufti instead of law taking its vourse of action as his daughter got married and setteled in Islamic nation of UAE. ! Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Wali Arifi Date: Friday, April 4, 2008 2:58 am Subject: [Reader-list] PDP's Delhi handlers! To: reader-list > * Mufti's party tries to shake off its ' Delhi masters'* > > By Parvaiz Bukhari in Srinagar > > THE People's Democratic Party ( PDP)' s president Mehbooba Mufti has > unveiled her " selfrule" plan for an undivided Kashmir and quashed > allegations that her party is a creation of Indian intelligence > agencies.She announced her grand plan to resolve the Kashmir issue > at the recent > Pugwash conference in Pakistan, of all places, before it was > discussed with > New Delhi or even people back home. This happened at a time when > the PDP is > facing internal rebellion and criticism from the National > Conference ( NC), > which alleged that her party was created and works for New Delhi's > spies. To > counter the attacks from her rivals, Mufti tried to show her party's > independence and simultaneously distance the PDP from its > perceived links > with the intelligence establishment. These are difficult times for > the PDP > when it is preparing for the next assembly elections, slated for > later this > year. Launched in 1999, ostensibly as the biggest political > operation of > Indian intelligence in embattled Jammu and Kashmir, the party grew in > strength to become a formidable challenger to the NC's strong hold > in the > Valley. But the party's think- tank is now finding it hard to get the > history of its making off its back and give it the status of a > crediblealternative to the NC. And more so when Farooq Abdullah's > NC is going > through a rough patch and the former chief minister is trying to > regain his > position by attacking the PDP. " The PDP is a creation of New > Delhi and ( > intelligence) agencies, which are trying to divide and rule > Kashmiris,"Abdullah tells the people repeatedly. He may not be off > the mark. The PDP's > foundations were laid when New Delhi began to regain control in > Kashmirafter militancy struck a blow to the political power > structure which existed > in the shape of the NC. In the run- up to the 1996 elections, the > firstseven years, electoral politics was principally dependent on > the NC. In such > a scenario, New Delhi found the NC more demanding and reminiscent > of 1952 > when Sheikh Mohammad Abdullah began to question the state's > accession to the > Indian Union. The centre assigned former Union home minister Mufti > MohammadSayeed the task and he was spot on — cashing in on anti- > incumbency and > other factors to rise to the chief minister's share with the > Congress in > tow. But, the unpleasant history hung heavy over the party and > immediatelyafter Sayeed stepped down as chief minister in tandem > with the PDP- Congress > power- sharing deal, he and his daughter floated the " self- rule" > proposal." It was the first attempt by the PDP to break free from > any handling from > outside ( read New Delhi)," said a party rebel. Sayeed's party is > using its > selfrule idea to give an impression that the Kashmir- specific > component of > the Indo- Pak peace process is driven by it. But the biggest > question is: > will the PDP be able to hold its flock together? Many of its founding > members are attempting to form a third front. parvaiz. bukhari@ > mailtoday.in > > http://mailtoday.in > > April, 3, 2008 > > Page 20 > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: From sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in Tue Apr 8 19:41:40 2008 From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in (S.Fatima) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 15:11:40 +0100 (BST) Subject: [Reader-list] No Pizzas for Muslims (of Jamia Nagar) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <70082.56827.qm@web8412.mail.in.yahoo.com> Behen Radhika If we don't want to get into blame game, then why do we blame only Muslim ghettos for harrowing driving experience? Delhi itself has so many kinds of ghettos, each ready to join the mob when something untoward happens. And before one can start putting the words "Muslim" and "ghetto" together, one needs to ask who creates the ghettos. Why is it that you can't break a traffic rule on Parliament street without getting away, but you can break several rules in Jamia Nagar and no one will bother. The police actually allows illegal constructions, illegal parking, illegal throwing of garbage, and illegal encroachment on the road in Jamia Nagar, which they would never do at Aurangzeb Road. Simple because no higher official is coming to see their work at Jamia. Its only when a VIP visits the area, roads get swept. So, who creates the ghettos? --- radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote: > Behen Fathima, > > without going into blame games which is favourite > past time of all debates, my respectful submission > is all driving vehicles in muslim dominated areas > know the harrowing experience of driving any vehicle > in ghettos. A slight touch to a child who loves to > play on the road, whole mohalla joins to harass and > dispence mob justice. It is true that poor > irrespective of their faith are recollected only at > the time of elections, for slogan shouting on daily > wages. > After the budget you might have seen the "farmers" > bundled out in vehicles for shouting the slogans > for the queen and the prince of India. !That is the > democracy in free India, where irrespective of faith > or catse every citizen is not had the opportunity in > life to have dignified living., education or life > skills to earn. More divided the society, more are > the chances of autocratic rule, not rule of laws, > but rule of muscle and money power.! > > Regards. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "S.Fatima" > Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 10:41 am > Subject: [Reader-list] No Pizzas for Muslims (of > Jamia Nagar) > To: sarai > > > Fast-food chains don't deliver in Delhi's Muslim > > ghetto > > > > Fast-food chains like Domino's and McDonald's > usually > > refuse home delivery in Jamia Nagar (in Delhi > > city)even though this dominantly Muslim > neighbourhood, > > famed for its Jamia Islamia University, is close > to > > their New Friends Colony (NFC) outlets. By the > way, > > Jamia Nagar is not just another unplanned stinky > > ghetto--it has wide roads, spacious houses, and > proper > > addresses. (See the story: Jamia Nagar - Delhi's > Rich > > Muslim Ghetto) > > > > "We don't deliver there," was the reply when The > Delhi > > Walla called up Domino's (011-26933951-56) at NFC. > > Different responses on different calls: "we are > > sorry", or "we haven't started our service there > yet." > > > > > > Ditto with McDonald's. "There are areas we don't > > deliver to and Jamia Nagar is one of them," says > the > > lady manning the McDelivery desk. According to > > McDonald's India North & East, "McDelivery > ascertain > > the delivery area on various internal assessments > > including the convenience and safe accessibility > of > > the area within the permissible timeframe." > > > > OK, fair enough. > > > > It takes less then 10 minutes to drive to Jamia > Nagar > > from McDoanld's. So is the place not safe enough? > An > > unusually forthcoming employee at Domino's said, > "It's > > not a good area. We deliver there only to special > > customers." > > > > Who are these mysterious special customers? > > > > At least author Ms. Rakshanda Jalil, a Jamia Nagar > > resident who recently had luminaries like > Khushwant > > Singh and Sheila Dikshit (Delhi Chief Minister no > > less) attending her book launch, is not special > > enough. She couldn't coax Domino's to deliver > Veggie > > Delight with extra olives for her two daughters. > > > > "They go to faraway blocks of New Friends Colony > and > > were delivering as far as Sarita Vihar but they > won't > > come here which is closer", says Ms. Jalil. > > > > Now listen to the outlets' unofficial excuses: > > "customers there don't pay", "addresses are > usually > > given wrong", and--this takes the pizza—"The Jamia > > University students forcibly take pizza boxes from > > delivery boys." > > > > Then why is Pizza Hut able to deliver, and deliver > > successfully, to Jamia Nagar? > > > > A quick phone call put things in perspective. Yes, > > Pizza Hut does deliver in Jamia Nagar. Yes, they > have > > never faced problems. But sorry, they don't > deliver > > after 7 pm. Reason? Traffic jam! Really? That's > > laughable. Jamia is essentially an university > campus > > with verdant grounds and quiet libraries. Hardly > the > > stuff traffic jams are made of. > > > > Ms. Jalil says, "Nobody uses the M word. But > clearly, > > they don't go 'out there' because a different sort > of > > species resides out there!" > > > > Achha, those Mussalmaans! > > > > > > ------------------- > > from: > > > http://thedelhiwalla.blogspot.com/2008/04/dateline-jamia-nagar-no- > > pizzas-for.html > > > > > > Explore your hobbies and interests. Go to > > > http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/_________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to > reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > list > > List archive: > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know how, go to http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html From parthaekka at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 19:45:00 2008 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:45:00 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fear and Loathing in Big Cities In-Reply-To: References: <32144e990804080634s1603e701se00361831c7ea72e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <32144e990804080715j633af3e8y2f30fccda001f4c9@mail.gmail.com> Dear Radhikarajen, I did read your mail, and the reason I responded in that manner is that you specifically mentioned "But the difference ends there, the poor in other faith do not resort to violence at the flimsy excuse if the pizza carrying vehicle touches their children playing on the roads, they are not out immediately in groups to demand money for the accident.They do not loot with mob power..." - thereby directly stating that only the Muslims use mob power, etc. If you have now changed your viewpoint, am glad to know that. Rgds, Partha ......................... On 4/8/08, radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote: > > Partha, " > generalising about muslims" is what you have percieved whereas my > thoughts dwell on much ;arger issue of "GENERAL aam admi" irrepspective of > faith or caste. Please, with a request to read and think for a while and > then respond. > Those who have it alll do flout the rules and as you rightly said avoid > "legally", act illegally with all legal aid. ! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Partha Dasgupta > Date: Tuesday, April 8, 2008 7:04 pm > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fear and Loathing in Big Cities > To: "radhikarajen at vsnl.net" > Cc: Shuddhabrata Sengupta , sarai list < > reader-list at sarai.net> > > > Dear Radhikarajen, > > > > While generalising about Muslims, do read the Times of India of > > today where > > a Dalit widow was stripped and made to eat excreta because she > > visited a > > temple. > > > > As for taxes, I'm sure you see many businessmen (and I can't remember > > knowing any who doesn't) who use all legal loopholes as well as > > many illegal > > loopholes to avoid taxes. Why do you think the Govt of India is so > > > happyabout record tax collections in this Hindu majority nation? > > > > > It is more the habit of cutting off the poor and bricking them > > off. Sure, > > they are wanted as maids and servants, but the wall is built in > > between so > > that the affluent don't get to see / hear them. Like the gates > > that are > > coming up in colonies and blocking off parks and other utilities > > that are > > supposed to be community resources created by the government on > > governmentland. > > > > Rgds, Partha > > .............................. > > > > On 4/8/08, radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote: > > > > > > My dear sister Fathima and her post was very thought provoking. > > But let us > > > be honest to see the facts in the right perspective, is it not > > true that > > > poor muslims are second grade citizens like all others in other > > faiths> divided by castes. But the difference ends there, the poor > > in other faith do > > > not resort to violence at the flimsy excuse if the pizza > > carrying vehicle > > > touches their children playing on the roads, they are not out > > immediately in > > > groups to demand money for the accident.They do not loot with > > mob power.Hard > > > working individuals irrespective of their faith always see > > success in life > > > inspite of bad systemic flaws of vote bank governance,that is > > how one can > > > see yarn merchant Ambani and his next generation in wealth.But > > > unfortunately, many muslims think that their zakath is only > > legal and not > > > taxes a citizens have to pay, but they want "subsidy" even when > > the HOLY > > > script says you travel with your honest hard earned money. > > > A system of governance which delivers good governance to ALL in > > society> with fair and just form is the democracy, but do we have > > it in place. > > > ?Citizens are divided in to groups of castes, minorities and > > "mahorities> and ultimately, a minority rules the citizens defying > > the oath of > > > governance, with all fear, with all unfair means for the votes, > > unless all > > > citizens irrespective of faith unite as a single society this > > game will go > > > on, appeasing one section of citizens at the cost of other > > sections of the > > > society. > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 6:53 pm > > > Subject: [Reader-list] Fear and Loathing in Big Cities > > > To: sarai list > > > > > > > Dear Fatima, Naeem dear all, > > > > > > > > Thanks for your posts on pizza delivery and fear and loathing in > > > > big > > > > cities, and how New York and New Delhi, when it comes to the sharp > > > > > > > > edge of exclusion, can seem like shadows of each other. I recently > > > > > > > > saw something in the Delhi edition of the Indian Express that I > > > > think > > > > would be of interest to the ensuing discussion. Its about a wall. > > > > No, > > > > Its not in Palestine, but in South Delhi. I thought it would echo > > > > > > > > (from a different angle) some of the thoughts being expressed in > > > > Naeem and Fatima's posts. > > > > > > > > best > > > > > > > > Shuddha > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------- > > > > Great Wall of Kalkaji > > > > Preeti Jha, Indian Express > > > > Posted online: Saturday , April 05, 2008 at 11:51:20 > > > > http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/Great-Wall-of- > > Kalkaji/292736/> > > > > > New Delhi, April 04 Construction of a five-foot wall to divide a > > > > slum > > > > cluster from neighbouring middle-class colonies is wreaking havoc > > > > in > > > > south Delhi's Kalkaji Extension. > > > > > > > > Standing in the remnants of her grocery store, Seema Sagar watches > > > > as > > > > a young boy jumps from one mound of debris to another, before > > > > precariously balancing on a stray brick. All this to safely cross > > > > the > > > > stream of sewage that now floats outside her house. > > > > > > > > On Monday, bulldozers razed down more than 1,000 small shops and > > > > homes to make way for a wall that will encircle all three > > camps in > > > > > > > > the slum cluster: Bhumiheen, Nehru and Navjeevan. Four hundred > > > > metres > > > > of the proposed 2-km wall are already in place, under construction > > > > by > > > > the Delhi Development Authority (DDA) since December. "We are > > > > acting > > > > on an order from the High Court," says DDA's executive > > engineer K > > > > K > > > > Khanna. > > > > > > > > And the High Court was responding to a petition filed by Arsh > > > > Avtaar > > > > Singh, former president of Kohinoor Apartments' Resident Welfare > > > > Association, in May 2005. The petition sought a solution against > > > > encroachment of roads and services by slum residents. > > > > > > > > 'Block them out' > > > > Neighbouring middle-class colonies support Singh's efforts. A > > flat- > > > > > > > > owner from nearby Konark Apartments, who does not want to be > > > > named, > > > > says: "All my life savings have been used to purchase this flat. > > > > For > > > > 22 years I have lived with the stink from open defecation, and > > > > constant over-crowding from blocked roads." > > > > > > > > Residents want slum dwellers to be relocated in 'pukka' housing. > > > > "I > > > > feel bad for them," says Singh, whose own domestic help lives in > > > > Bhumiheen Camp. "They should be given an alternative home > > > > immediately." > > > > But the DDA claims it needs time to relocate the slum dwellers. > > > > "The > > > > wall is a temporary arrangement to offer protection to flat > > > > owners," > > > > Khanna says. > > > > > > > > In the interim, Daliwal thinks the wall should be built higher. > > > > "It > > > > should be at least eight foot high, and built either with bricks, > > > > or > > > > grills and mesh. There should also be fewer outlets." > > > > > > > > 'Livelihood gone' > > > > The camp's residents, though, are fuming. "We were given no > > > > warning," > > > > says Sagar. She claims to have bought her grocery shop for Rs > > > > 20,000 > > > > rupees 13 years ago. "I make Rs 50 a day, through which I cook for > > > > my > > > > family. We have nothing to eat today without my shop." > > > > > > > > Trying to salvage broken chairs and cutlery from his former > > > > confectionery store, Izhar Ali asks, "What should I do to earn? > > > > Can > > > > the government give me an alternative?" > > > > > > > > As an MCD employee sprays mosquito repellent into stagnant water > > > > forming pools around the newly homeless, Kamla Ujhain forlornly > > > > watches her grandchildren eat in what used to be a bathroom. "We > > > > knew > > > > it would close our businesses," says Maya Devi, peering outside > > > > her > > > > shop, now shrouded by bricks. "And what if there's a fire?" asks > > > > another shopkeeper, Naresh Kumar. "It will be much harder to > > > > escape > > > > if we are contained from all sides." > > > > > > > > DDA's Khanna, meanwhile, insists there will be several entry and > > > > exit > > > > points in the wall. "There are more than 17 gaps in the 400-metre > > > > stretch built so far," he says. > > > > > > > > DDA has a May 21 deadline for building the wall. > > > > > > > > > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > > > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > > > > Raqs Media Collective > > > > shuddha at sarai.net > > > >www.sarai.net > > > > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > > > list > > > > > > > List archive: > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > > subscribe in the subject header. > > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Partha Dasgupta > > +919811047132 > > > -- Partha Dasgupta +919811047132 From project.labels at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 19:50:46 2008 From: project.labels at gmail.com (Raheema Begum) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 19:50:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements]Expiate Message-ID: Part of the second labels level, [The Grid], 'Expiate' is a real-time and online event which started on April 6th 2008 in Vadodara.Online Participation is now open. Please visit http://whosebody.wordpress.com/2008/04/06/in-the-grid-starting-today/ Best, Raheema. -- http://whosebody.wordpress.com From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 08:30:55 2008 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2008 08:30:55 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: media advisory to send out In-Reply-To: <264cd9380804060717l7f1dfd54uef46543ab1fc7d3e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ------ Forwarded Message From: youdon aukatsang Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 19:47:38 +0530 To: Subject: media advisory to send out FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE April 6, 2008 Mass Protest Head Shave and Blood Donation camp in solidarity with the Tibetan nonviolent movement The Tibetan Solidarity Committee- Delhi Chapter will organize a mass protest head shave and a simultaneous blood donation camp at Jantar Mantar on April 7, 2008 from 11 am onwards. Through this event, we want to send a strong signal condemning violence inside Tibet and a message of solidarity to our brethrens who are victims of violent crackdown in Tibet for participating in non-violent peaceful action. The number of Tibetans killed inside Tibet has now risen to 154 with 8 killed in Karze Tibetan Prefecture in Sichuan when Chinese authorities blindly opened fire on demonstrators and 2 cases of suicide owing to deep resentment and frustration under the oppressive regime. For latest news on the situation in Tibet, please visit our official website www.stoptibetcrisis.net Contact Persons: Tsetan Norbu: +91 9818970928 Youdon Aukatsang: +91 9999915061 Issued by: Tibetan Solidarity Committee-Delhi Chapter ------ End of Forwarded Message From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 23:35:04 2008 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 23:35:04 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Kashmiri Pandits celebrate Navreh In-Reply-To: <6353c690804081101g153ba0fcj33acd7cc8bd2d759@mail.gmail.com> References: <6353c690804081101g153ba0fcj33acd7cc8bd2d759@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690804081105q5d520d93mb790508edf1b4104@mail.gmail.com> Kashmiri Pandits celebrate Navreh *Terrorism might have forced Kashmiri Pandits to live like a refugee in their own country, but the desire to return to the 'roots' has not succumbed to adversities. The celebrations of the Kashmiri New Year fully reflected their buoyant spirits.* *ATOP THE highest hills of the Aravallis, in the village of Ananagpur in Faridabad, Kashmiri Pandits- living in and around Delhi- celebrated the arrival of the Kashmiri New Year, Navreh. The temple atop the hill houses the idol of the Goddess Sharika, the presiding deity of Kashmir. The hill has been manicured and landscaped in a manner that it gives the impression of the famed 'badam-vaer' (almond garden) of Kashmir.* ** *Read more on - http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=132007* ** *Please do write your comments on Merinews Website.* ** *Thanks* *Aditya Raj Kaul* *Roots In Kashmir* From paramjeetbernad at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 23:39:10 2008 From: paramjeetbernad at gmail.com (Paramjeet Bernad) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 23:39:10 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Essay and painting contest In-Reply-To: <84b20cca0804030220y465a2669ocdbe749198127c85@mail.gmail.com> References: <84b20cca0804030220y465a2669ocdbe749198127c85@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <84b20cca0804081109g21aedde6ie7f743692f9ca623@mail.gmail.com> Kindly please forward this mail to across the contry to various schools and colleges in India Thanks Paramjeet Bernad Dear all, Greetings from Control Arms Foundation of India, We have got a positive response from the educational institutions across the country, along with the request to extend the entries closing date because of examination period We also felt that many interested students may not participate as it coincides with the examination. Keeping all these things in mind, we have postponed the last day of entries. The revised date for receiving Essay and Painting entries from the schools and college students is 30 April 2008. By reviewing this, we look for greater participation from the student's community and hope you shall encourage more students of your institution to participate in the contest. The Control Arms Foundation of India (CAFI) is pleased to announce an essay and painting contest on the topic *"What armed gun violence has done to my country?"* The painting contest is open to School students only. Students can write the essay on both Hindi and English. * * *TOPIC :- What Armed Gun Violence has done to my Country?* *(Banduki Hinsa Ne Hamare Desh Ke liye kya kiya?)* * * Thousands of people are killed, injured, raped, and forced to flee from their homes as a result of the unregulated global armed gun violence. One conflict cost nearly the average of the annual development aid worldwide. Especially developing countries are most affected, phenomena fuelled by illegal arms trade and domestic production and rampant proliferation. Indiais home to various conflicts, which are fought with arms and its consequences are far reaching, leading to poverty, degradation of the environment and underdevelopment** * * *The year deadline for entries is *30th April, 2008 and should be mailed to *Essay Contest Coordinator*, Control Arms Foundation of India( CAFI), B5/146,1st Floor, Safdarjung Enclave, New Delhi-110029.Participants can also E mail this to paramjeetbernad at gmail.com. This essay competition is a way to create a greater interest and an army of peace loving youth to come forward and propagate harmony among the global masses through their innovative thoughts and creations. The submissions are requested be the student's original and unpublished work. Please find more details on the essay and painting contest on www.cafi-online.org * * *Announces National level Essay and Painting Contest* Inviting entries from the schools/universities students*, for essay*(Hindi/English), *and painting contest* Topic: *What Armed Gun Violence** Has Done To My Country?* Minimum word limit for school students: 800 to 1000 words Universities and colleges -2000 to 2500 words, Painting contest – for school students *only.* *Send your entries by post or e-mail * *With your complete address, contact details & Identity proof, before **30 April 2008**, * Attested by your school/universities., B-5/146,(First floor), Safdarjung Enclave, New Delhi-29. Ph. 011- 46018541, 011-26166234 Email - paramjeetbernad at gmail.com , gremind at gmail.com For more details guidelines on the essay contest please log on to – www.cafi-online.org ** *Also like to request you to confirm the entries for the contest if possible from your institution and feel free to write or call me directly if you have any query for the contest. With best wishes, looking forward for your response.* * * Thanking you, Regards, Paramjeet Bernad Essay Contest Coordinator 09811084987 From pearl at osians.com Mon Apr 7 10:47:32 2008 From: pearl at osians.com (Pearl Sandhu) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 10:47:32 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Call For Entry-TALENT CAMPUS INDIA#5 2008 Message-ID: CALL FOR ENTRY Osian'sCinefan is proud to announce the 5th edition of Talent Campus India organised in collaboration with the Berlin International Film Festival, the Berlinale Talent Campus and Max Mueller Bhawan, New Delhi. The 5th Talent Campus India will take place from 13 to 18 July, 2008. It will run along side Osian's Cinefan, 10th Festival of Asian and Arab Cinema (10-20 July), within the framework of the programme 'Infrastructure Building for Minds and Markets - IBM2. Talent Campus is a 6-day workshop where up to 30 young aspiring filmmakers will be invited to New Delhi to interact with renowned filmmakers and film professionals from India and abroad. The aim of the workshop is to provide Indian and South Asian youth a forum for learning and sharing the process of filmmaking. The application is open to India, its neighbouring countries as well as Iran. Participants will benefit not only from the calibre and experience of the professionals involved, but also from the exchange of ideas among themselves. The focus of the festival is Literature and Cinema which would also be the major influence on discussions in talent campus along with sessions on Screenplay Writing, Cinematography and Direction and other key aspects of filmmaking like Casting and Production Design. In addition to attending workshop session, the selected talents will have the opportunity to see the very best of Asian and Arab cinema being showcased during Osian'sCinefan. We would be grateful if you would circulate this information among students and those who you feel may benefit from this initiative. The application can be downloaded from our website www.osians.com Applying for Talent Campus India Along with the application, applicants are required to submit one of the following A one'minute film. This can also be a one'minute excerpt of a longer film. Any entry that is longer than 60 seconds will NOT be considered. OR A five'minute film. This should be directed by the applicant especially for Talent Campus India specifically on the subject of EVERYDAY JOURNEYS. The film should be NO LONGER than five minutes. The best two of the selected five'minute films will be awarded a Certificate of Appreciation. OR 3500 - 4500'word film script. Make sure that it is a film script! The language of the script needs to be English. It can be a translation of a script written in any other language and the original can also be sent along with the English version. The script needs to be a typed printout and not handwritten. Subject of the Five'minute film EVERYDAY JOURNEYS - Do you often travel from one place to another, one stage to another or by one mode of transport or another? Do you trace imagined journeys of sorts through books, photographs, conversations, encountering and unravelling the complexities of interaction, engagement and discovery? Do you map a plan as to how to get from point A to point B in a city or how to catch the next bus, auto rickshaw or taxi? Or does your mind travel when you are waiting to take the train from the suburbs to the city? In their growth Asian cities, suburbs and villages have carried forward histories, cultures, lifestyles and people with the kind of spatial and temporal simultaneity and existence that makes way for complex everyday negotiations. It is these everyday passages that we are interested in seeing represented in your films! A journey between your home and college or work can be just as intriguing as a journey across borders and dreaming in broad daylight is a journey as well that we have all indulged and found pleasure in. It is these everyday journeys that we want your film to explore, celebrate, question or ponder on. Your film can explore any genre - funny, sad, grim, ponderous. It can be fiction or documentary or even experimental. You can send us the one'minute or five'minute film on a VHS, VCD or a DVD. (We will not accept multi- media video formats like AVI, windows media format (WMF), mpeg, quick time, real video or shockwave (flash/format) An independently constituted Committee will select up to 30 Talents to attend the final workshop. We look forward to meeting these participants from around the country and from neighbouring countries. The deadline for applications is 10th May 2008 Pearl Sandhu Coordinator, Talent Campus India Osian's-Cinefan festival of Asian and Arab Cinema Tel: 91-11-41743157 / 58 / 66 pearl at osians.com -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From info at e-artnow.org Mon Apr 7 02:59:12 2008 From: info at e-artnow.org (e-artnow) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 23:29:12 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Reader-list] =?iso-8859-1?q?=5BAnnouncements=5D_Call_for_entries?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=3A_Volgograd_International_video_festival_Forward=BB2018?= Message-ID: e-artnow: 06.04.2008 Call for entries: Volgograd International video festival Forward»2018  Volgograd International video festival Forward»2018 Art Incubator "Videology" 400131, Russia, Volgograd, Prospekt Lenina, 21, GUK Volgograd Museum of Graphic Arts Phone: +79061685301 Fax: +79061685301 Contact: Fedor Yermolov forward at interra34.ru www.forward.interra34.ru/english.htm DEADLINE For works sent by snail-mail – 20th of April 2008. For works sent by FTP – 1st of May 2008. Volgograd International video festival Forward»2018 Invites artists and curators to participate Volgograd International Video Festival Forward»2018 announces the start of accepting works and invites artists and curators to participate. Festival will take place in Volgograd in May-June 2008 and it is planned that it will have the usual cinema hall format as well as online format in the Internet. It will allow presenting the festival programme not only to local, but also world wide audience. Works of multiple genres can participate: from short-length films and video art to animated cartoons and documentaries. It will be the Civil Jury that will evaluate the works, and it will involve specialists of different culture areas, but also, what is no less important – Citizens of Volgograd, recognizing their personal responsibility for social and cultural situation in the city. Besides, a Prize of Audience"s Sympathy will be awarded. Manifest Volgograd is an extraordinary city. Extraordinary and sophisticated – in many ways. It emerged from ruins in times of the Golden Horde in "no man"s land" between Europe and Asia (initially the fortress stood on an island amid mighty Volga, which was a boundary river then). Three times the city changed its name (and made it into history under sinister name of Stalin – it is here, in Stalingrad, where the decisive battle of the Second World War took place). It changed its appearance – from wooden fort to redbrick merchant town, from a pile of burnt bricks of war times to Empire style haughty polis. It incurved along the Volga bank – a pulsating vein of Russia, with a dot-and-dashed line (or rather unread Morse code message, where dots are plants and dashes – residential areas). Here everything is intermittent and pulsating. Vertical lines of sky scrapers under construction (and the main vertical – Mother Russia monument, the highest in the world), interlace with low blocks of residential houses; local transport-miracle – express tramway – dives underground, and then again comes on surface to broad daylight; a street rumble of a million-people-city changes to patriarchal silence of old patios… Everything is dashed and pulsating. So is the city"s cultural life. For the past few years Volgograd got acquainted with modern art on an international level again. Again – because before post-perestroika still air period international avant- garde art festivals already rioted here, the first of them being not in Russia even, but still in USSR. And again a new generation of modern artists appeared in the city – video-artists included. Not spouted from the old perestroika generation – but rather, jumped out of void, out of a pause in total Volgograd pulse. It"s exactly for this new, unknown generation (and by its forces) that this festival is being prepared. As a launching point, as a territory for a dialogue with equal young video-makers from all around the world… This festival is for the young in the first place. The number 2018 in the name of the festival is not a misprint, since today we invite to show their debut creative work those people who in 10 years time, in 2018, will become a formed core of modern art, We want to look forward together with You, forward into next decade. We want to show ourselves – to the city and to the world. We are not afraid of putting ourselves into world cultural context – even if the comparison would not be in our favour – and we invite young artists to come forward together with us. We invite the senior to show us their excellence. We want to learn, want to find our own place in modern culture. And perhaps, and why not – to lay foundation of a new local cultural tradition, which would not be intermitted. Planned programmes Forward– competitive programme for young artists (under 33 years of age). REview – Competitive programme for artists above 33 years of age. Each artist can submit TWO works, one of which represents the opening stage of his creative work, and the other – today"s stage. DEADLINE For works sent by snail-mail – 20th of April 2008. For works sent by FTP – 1st of May 2008. Festival"s organizers "Art-incubator "Videology" workshop with support from Volgograd regional NGO "Centre for cultural initiatives development" "InTerra". Contact information Address: 400131, Russia, Volgograd, Prospekt Lenina, 21, GUK Volgograd Museum of Graphic Arts mail: forward[a]interra34.ru www.forward.interra34.ru/english.htm UNSUBSCRIBE from e-artnow www.e-artnow.org -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From shuddha at sarai.net Wed Apr 9 01:49:19 2008 From: shuddha at sarai.net (Shuddhabrata Sengupta) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 01:49:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested a Delhi-basedJournalist In-Reply-To: References: <2076f31d0804071011g44172c96pb71fbc9b9424ed99@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9BE33FFC-D9CF-44B5-998F-25F4C6F4BE82@sarai.net> Radhikarajen, I am curious to know, where in the post by Arshad Amanullah you have read that the journalist, Nadim Ahmad, had violated any law? Which law do you think has been violated? Where (in Arshad's posting) do you find the evidence of this violation? The report forwarded by Arshad mentions the editor of Mr. Ahmad's newspaper citing conversations with a police officer about the journalist, his whereabouts and his assignment, and even the police officer who is quoted in the forwarded report does not seem to indicate that the Mr. Ahmad had broken any law. Which leap of imagination then impels you to make the assumption that he had? I find it disgusting that you should assume that the journalist has violated any law whatsoever, without any stated proof to that effect. All that we can surmise from reading the above mentioned report is that Mr. Ahmad was doing his job - making enquiries in a completely legitimate manner, as journalists are supposed to do. Morover, nowhere, in the posting that Arshad has forwarded, is there any reference to Mr. Ahmad's faith, or his relationship to an organization called SIMI, and yet, I can see that you cannot resist the cheap temptation of stating that - (and I am quoting you directly here) - "he is journalist (sic), that does not mean he is above the law, he can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor (sic), support and shield the few fanatics because he is journalist, that is when conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion is used to propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now banned does. If system of governance arrests a few, who are in subversion of laws, planning violent acts in the guise of religion and its freedom, laws have to take care of such deviant behaviour in free society." Where, in Arshad's posting do you find grounds to believe that the journalist, "sheltered, supported and shielded" any "fanatics"? Is it only on the grounds of his name, and what we can learn about the possibility of his beliefs, again on the basis of that name. What can we learn on the basis of a name. If I take your name for instance, I cannot even tell whether you are male or female, whether you are Hindu, or a person of another faith, or no faith at all, who happens to have the Sanskrit names of a hindu deity (Radhika) and the term for a royal personage, (Rajen) attached to his/her name. For all I care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day Adventist, a lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire need of therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent) Santan Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet. Your name gives me no real indication whatsoever, actually. And any negative judgements that I, or anyone esle would make about you, your motives, your character, your personality on the basis of your name would be totally indefensible. If I had to make judgements, they would have to rely on your actions and your statments, not your name. Now, let us assume that I was a journalist, trying to investigate the detention of the activists of a supposedly 'Hindu' organization like the Bajrang Dal. Now let us further assume that I was arrested, in the course of doing so. Would you, or anyone else, then be taken seriously, if you or they, made a statement to the effect that I was arrested, because I was "sheltering, supporting and shielding" the activists of the Bajrang Dal (because Shuddhabrata Sengupta sounds, in an appropriately deadpan Sanskritic way, like an ostensibly 'hindu' name, though it actually says next to nothing about my personal convictions in the matter of religion). Such an allegation, if it were not backed by any substantive proof, would be patently absurd. Similarly, your implicit allegations (which infer connections and convergences of purpose between SIMI activists and Nadim Ahmad solely on the grounds of the incidental 0 and therefore irrelevant - marker of Mr. Ahmad's name), are equally absurd. You, sir, or madam, or whatever you may be, are the true fanatic here. You cannot resist making broad generalizations about other peoples' character based on nothing other than the sound of their name. It really shows how narrow the bandwidth of your intelligence and your imagination is. I think you owe this list an apology, and I suggest that you study the Indian Penal Code carefully before making flimsy allegations about being above or below the law. The law can be used quite effectively against people like you who make baseless and wild allegations about other people's character and conduct. I suggest you take a careful look at section 499 of the Indian Penal Code, it spells out the law of a crime called defamation. Be careful. no regards whatsoever, not to you, not this time, Shuddhabrata On 08-Apr-08, at 6:21 PM, radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote: > Losten my friend, he is journalist, that does not mean he is above > the law, he can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor, > support and shield the few fanatics because he is journalist, that > is when conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion is > used to propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now > banned does. If system of governance arrests a few, who are in > subversion of laws, planning violent acts in the guise of religion > and its freedom, laws have to take care of such deviant behaviour > in free society. Be it a hindu, muslim or any faith, group of > individuals who are traitors to the society for the "religion" are > not citizens who deserve to be spared as law has to take care of > such deviant behaviour., irrespective of the system of governance, > or the political party that rules the state, why is it that some > point out such incidents as if system is against the faith, but not > against lawless behaviour by "journalist. ? > > Regatrds. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: arshad amanullah > Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 10:42 pm > Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested a Delhi- > basedJournalist > To: reader-list at sarai.net > >> www.milligazette.com >> >> New Delhi, 7 April 2008: Late last evening the police >> in the BJP-ruled state of Madhya Pradesh arrested a >> Delhi-based journalist who had gone there to report on >> recent arrests in the state. >> >> The journalist is Mr Nadim Ahmad, a staffer of The >> Milli Gazette fortnightly English-language newspaper >> published from Delhi since 2000. >> >> Ahmad was arrested by the police early 6 April evening >> in village Aroda/Choral under Balwada Police Station, >> Distt Khargone, Indore Range. Contact with Ahmad was >> possible until late in the evening on his mobile phone >> (# 09911334768). However, since this morning he is not >> picking up his phone while Police Inspector Sunil >> Visthre (mobile # 09926670086), who took Ahmad in >> custody, is not responding to calls on his mobile. >> Enquiries with highest police officials in Indore have >> failed to help trace the whereabout of the arrested >> journalist. The Milli Gazette editor, Dr Zafarul-Islam >> Khan, has written in this matter to Mr Shivraj Patil, >> the Union Home Minister, MP Governor Mr Balram Jhakar, >> MP Chief Minister Mr Shivraj Singh Chauhan, MP home >> minister Mr. Himmat Kothari, as well as to top police >> officials in MP state. >> >> If the journalist remains untraceable, Dr Khan plans >> to file a habeas corpus suit in the Supreme Court of >> India tomorrow, 8 April. >> >> [end] >> >> Issued by The Milli Gazette >> D-84 Abul Fazal Enclave-I >> Jamia Nagar, New Delhi 110 025 >> Tel. (011) 26942883, 26947483, 26952825 >> Email: edit at milligazette.com >> Website: www.milligazette.com >> >> Following is the text of the letter sent by Dr >> Zafarul-Islam Khan, Editor, The Milli Gazette, on 7 >> April 2008 via fax, email and courier to a number of >> central and MP state authorities: >> >> "This is to inform you that we are a registered >> English-language fortnightly newspaper published >> regularly since January 2000 (registered RNI number >> DELENG/2000/930). A few days back we sent Mr Nadim >> Ahmad, one of our full-time staff reporters, to >> Sarangpur, Madhya Pradesh, to report on communal >> violence there. At about same time news of arrests of >> alleged SIMI members also came from an adjacent area >> in the state, so I instructed him to go to Indore as >> well to report on the situation there and to visit >> some places from where arrests were made. Mr Ahmad >> reached Indore yesterday, 6 April 2008, and after >> making enquiries about the location of the concerned >> areas, went to village Aroda/Choral under Balwada >> Police Station, Distt Khargone, Indore Range (Thana >> phone No. 07280-261237) whose in-charge is Town >> Inspector Mr Sunil Visthre (mobile no. 09926670086). >> Inspector Visthre spoke to me last night at around 8-9 >> pm using Mr Ahmad's mobile no. 09911334768 asking why >> he was in the area. It was explained to him that Mr >> Ahmad was a full-time staff reporter of this paper and >> he was there at my instructions to report on the >> recent arrests. Inspector Visthre told me that there >> was nothing to worry about and Mr Ahmad is helping >> enquiries and he is not under arrest. >> >> My last contact with Ahmad was at 11.06 pm yesterday >> (6 April 08) on his mobile phone in which he said he >> is alright and was answering questions by the police; >> Inspector Visthre also spoke to me over the same phone >> at that time and told me that there is nothing to >> worry about as they were only trying to establish the >> reason why Mr Nadim was in the area.. Mr Nadim Ahmad's >> last call was at 1.28 am on 7-4-08 which I could not >> receive as I had gone to bed by that time. In the >> morning I tried to contact Mr Ahmad using his mobile >> number but there was no response. Thereafter, I phoned >> Balwada Thana at the above phone number and was >> informed that Inspector Visthre has taken Mr Ahmad to >> Indore in the morning at 6 AM. Efforts to contact Mr >> Ahmad since then have failed; Inspector Visthre too is >> not taking up calls to his mobile. After this, I >> phoned Indore Superintendent of Police Mr Anshuman >> Yadav on his mobile no. 09425115144 at 11.30 am (7 >> April 08). He told me that he had no information about >> this matter. >> >> As of now, my apprehension is that Mr Nadim Ahmad has >> been arrested and kept under custody at an unknown >> place for no reason whatsoever as he was only >> discharging his duties as a journalist to investigate >> matters of common and media interest. I fear that >> under the current charged atmosphere in the state of >> Madhya Pradesh, Mr Ahmad may have been falsely >> implicated in some matter and illegally deprived of >> his liberty. I request you to immediately intervene in >> this matter and ensure the freedom of press guaranteed >> by our Constitution and laws." >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- >> list >> List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net From taraprakash at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 02:21:26 2008 From: taraprakash at gmail.com (TaraPrakash) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2008 16:51:26 -0400 Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arresteda Delhi-basedJournalist References: <2076f31d0804071011g44172c96pb71fbc9b9424ed99@mail.gmail.com> <9BE33FFC-D9CF-44B5-998F-25F4C6F4BE82@sarai.net> Message-ID: <003201c899ba$51c6a9c0$df2cab0a@taraprakash> Journalists are not above law. BJP government is. The cops are. They can arrest innocent people at will. They can spare murderers of teachers. They can shoot people to test their guns. habeas corpus provision for a journalist!!! You must be kidding. It applies only in the states where the law rules. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shuddhabrata Sengupta" To: Cc: "arshad amanullah" ; Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arresteda Delhi-basedJournalist > Radhikarajen, > > I am curious to know, where in the post by Arshad Amanullah you have > read that the journalist, Nadim Ahmad, had violated any law? Which > law do you think has been violated? Where (in Arshad's posting) do > you find the evidence of this violation? > > The report forwarded by Arshad mentions the editor of Mr. Ahmad's > newspaper citing conversations with a police officer about the > journalist, his whereabouts and his assignment, and even the police > officer who is quoted in the forwarded report does not seem to > indicate that the Mr. Ahmad had broken any law. Which leap of > imagination then impels you to make the assumption that he had? > > I find it disgusting that you should assume that the journalist has > violated any law whatsoever, without any stated proof to that effect. > All that we can surmise from reading the above mentioned report is > that Mr. Ahmad was doing his job - making enquiries in a completely > legitimate manner, as journalists are supposed to do. Morover, > nowhere, in the posting that Arshad has forwarded, is there any > reference to Mr. Ahmad's faith, or his relationship to an > organization called SIMI, and yet, I can see that you cannot resist > the cheap temptation of stating that - (and I am quoting you > directly here) > > - "he is journalist (sic), that does not mean he is above the law, he > can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor (sic), support and > shield the few fanatics because he is journalist, that is when > conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion is used to > propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now banned does. > If system of governance arrests a few, who are in subversion of laws, > planning violent acts in the guise of religion and its freedom, laws > have to take care of such deviant behaviour in free society." > > Where, in Arshad's posting do you find grounds to believe that the > journalist, "sheltered, supported and shielded" any "fanatics"? Is it > only on the grounds of his name, and what we can learn about the > possibility of his beliefs, again on the basis of that name. What can > we learn on the basis of a name. If I take your name for instance, I > cannot even tell whether you are male or female, whether you are > Hindu, or a person of another faith, or no faith at all, who happens > to have the Sanskrit names of a hindu deity (Radhika) and the term > for a royal personage, (Rajen) attached to his/her name. For all I > care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day Adventist, a > lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire need of > therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent) Santan > Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet. Your name gives > me no real indication whatsoever, actually. And any negative > judgements that I, or anyone esle would make about you, your motives, > your character, your personality on the basis of your name would be > totally indefensible. If I had to make judgements, they would have to > rely on your actions and your statments, not your name. > > Now, let us assume that I was a journalist, trying to investigate the > detention of the activists of a supposedly 'Hindu' organization like > the Bajrang Dal. Now let us further assume that I was arrested, in > the course of doing so. Would you, or anyone else, then be taken > seriously, if you or they, made a statement to the effect that I was > arrested, because I was "sheltering, supporting and shielding" the > activists of the Bajrang Dal (because Shuddhabrata Sengupta sounds, > in an appropriately deadpan Sanskritic way, like an ostensibly > 'hindu' name, though it actually says next to nothing about my > personal convictions in the matter of religion). > > Such an allegation, if it were not backed by any substantive proof, > would be patently absurd. Similarly, your implicit allegations (which > infer connections and convergences of purpose between SIMI activists > and Nadim Ahmad solely on the grounds of the incidental 0 and > therefore irrelevant - marker of Mr. Ahmad's name), are equally absurd. > > You, sir, or madam, or whatever you may be, are the true fanatic > here. You cannot resist making broad generalizations about other > peoples' character based on nothing other than the sound of their > name. It really shows how narrow the bandwidth of your intelligence > and your imagination is. > > I think you owe this list an apology, and I suggest that you study > the Indian Penal Code carefully before making flimsy allegations > about being above or below the law. The law can be used quite > effectively against people like you who make baseless and wild > allegations about other people's character and conduct. I suggest you > take a careful look at section 499 of the Indian Penal Code, it > spells out the law of a crime called defamation. Be careful. > > no regards whatsoever, not to you, not this time, > > Shuddhabrata > > > > > On 08-Apr-08, at 6:21 PM, radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote: > >> Losten my friend, he is journalist, that does not mean he is above >> the law, he can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor, >> support and shield the few fanatics because he is journalist, that >> is when conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion is >> used to propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now >> banned does. If system of governance arrests a few, who are in >> subversion of laws, planning violent acts in the guise of religion >> and its freedom, laws have to take care of such deviant behaviour >> in free society. Be it a hindu, muslim or any faith, group of >> individuals who are traitors to the society for the "religion" are >> not citizens who deserve to be spared as law has to take care of >> such deviant behaviour., irrespective of the system of governance, >> or the political party that rules the state, why is it that some >> point out such incidents as if system is against the faith, but not >> against lawless behaviour by "journalist. ? >> >> Regatrds. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: arshad amanullah >> Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 10:42 pm >> Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested a Delhi- >> basedJournalist >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> >>> www.milligazette.com >>> >>> New Delhi, 7 April 2008: Late last evening the police >>> in the BJP-ruled state of Madhya Pradesh arrested a >>> Delhi-based journalist who had gone there to report on >>> recent arrests in the state. >>> >>> The journalist is Mr Nadim Ahmad, a staffer of The >>> Milli Gazette fortnightly English-language newspaper >>> published from Delhi since 2000. >>> >>> Ahmad was arrested by the police early 6 April evening >>> in village Aroda/Choral under Balwada Police Station, >>> Distt Khargone, Indore Range. Contact with Ahmad was >>> possible until late in the evening on his mobile phone >>> (# 09911334768). However, since this morning he is not >>> picking up his phone while Police Inspector Sunil >>> Visthre (mobile # 09926670086), who took Ahmad in >>> custody, is not responding to calls on his mobile. >>> Enquiries with highest police officials in Indore have >>> failed to help trace the whereabout of the arrested >>> journalist. The Milli Gazette editor, Dr Zafarul-Islam >>> Khan, has written in this matter to Mr Shivraj Patil, >>> the Union Home Minister, MP Governor Mr Balram Jhakar, >>> MP Chief Minister Mr Shivraj Singh Chauhan, MP home >>> minister Mr. Himmat Kothari, as well as to top police >>> officials in MP state. >>> >>> If the journalist remains untraceable, Dr Khan plans >>> to file a habeas corpus suit in the Supreme Court of >>> India tomorrow, 8 April. >>> >>> [end] >>> >>> Issued by The Milli Gazette >>> D-84 Abul Fazal Enclave-I >>> Jamia Nagar, New Delhi 110 025 >>> Tel. (011) 26942883, 26947483, 26952825 >>> Email: edit at milligazette.com >>> Website: www.milligazette.com >>> >>> Following is the text of the letter sent by Dr >>> Zafarul-Islam Khan, Editor, The Milli Gazette, on 7 >>> April 2008 via fax, email and courier to a number of >>> central and MP state authorities: >>> >>> "This is to inform you that we are a registered >>> English-language fortnightly newspaper published >>> regularly since January 2000 (registered RNI number >>> DELENG/2000/930). A few days back we sent Mr Nadim >>> Ahmad, one of our full-time staff reporters, to >>> Sarangpur, Madhya Pradesh, to report on communal >>> violence there. At about same time news of arrests of >>> alleged SIMI members also came from an adjacent area >>> in the state, so I instructed him to go to Indore as >>> well to report on the situation there and to visit >>> some places from where arrests were made. Mr Ahmad >>> reached Indore yesterday, 6 April 2008, and after >>> making enquiries about the location of the concerned >>> areas, went to village Aroda/Choral under Balwada >>> Police Station, Distt Khargone, Indore Range (Thana >>> phone No. 07280-261237) whose in-charge is Town >>> Inspector Mr Sunil Visthre (mobile no. 09926670086). >>> Inspector Visthre spoke to me last night at around 8-9 >>> pm using Mr Ahmad's mobile no. 09911334768 asking why >>> he was in the area. It was explained to him that Mr >>> Ahmad was a full-time staff reporter of this paper and >>> he was there at my instructions to report on the >>> recent arrests. Inspector Visthre told me that there >>> was nothing to worry about and Mr Ahmad is helping >>> enquiries and he is not under arrest. >>> >>> My last contact with Ahmad was at 11.06 pm yesterday >>> (6 April 08) on his mobile phone in which he said he >>> is alright and was answering questions by the police; >>> Inspector Visthre also spoke to me over the same phone >>> at that time and told me that there is nothing to >>> worry about as they were only trying to establish the >>> reason why Mr Nadim was in the area.. Mr Nadim Ahmad's >>> last call was at 1.28 am on 7-4-08 which I could not >>> receive as I had gone to bed by that time. In the >>> morning I tried to contact Mr Ahmad using his mobile >>> number but there was no response. Thereafter, I phoned >>> Balwada Thana at the above phone number and was >>> informed that Inspector Visthre has taken Mr Ahmad to >>> Indore in the morning at 6 AM. Efforts to contact Mr >>> Ahmad since then have failed; Inspector Visthre too is >>> not taking up calls to his mobile. After this, I >>> phoned Indore Superintendent of Police Mr Anshuman >>> Yadav on his mobile no. 09425115144 at 11.30 am (7 >>> April 08). He told me that he had no information about >>> this matter. >>> >>> As of now, my apprehension is that Mr Nadim Ahmad has >>> been arrested and kept under custody at an unknown >>> place for no reason whatsoever as he was only >>> discharging his duties as a journalist to investigate >>> matters of common and media interest. I fear that >>> under the current charged atmosphere in the state of >>> Madhya Pradesh, Mr Ahmad may have been falsely >>> implicated in some matter and illegally deprived of >>> his liberty. I request you to immediately intervene in >>> this matter and ensure the freedom of press guaranteed >>> by our Constitution and laws." >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- >>> list >>> List archive: >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From the.solipsist at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 02:37:06 2008 From: the.solipsist at gmail.com (Pranesh Prakash) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 02:37:06 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] =?windows-1252?q?Symposium_on_the_Challenges_to_Ind?= =?windows-1252?q?ia=92s_Patent_Regime_=7C_NLSIU=2C_Bangalore_=7C_A?= =?windows-1252?q?pril_12_=26_13?= Message-ID: <4785f1e20804081407t46ecd62dr7ba429829d8f1920@mail.gmail.com> Dear All,* *National Law School of India Review, the bi-annual journal of the National Law School, Bangalore is organising the First *NLSIR Symposium on the "Challenges to India's Patent Regime"*. The Symposium is being held from *12th – 13th April (Saturday and Sunday)* at the *NLSIU campus in Nagarbhavi, Bangalore* and is intended to promote healthy debate and discussion amongst all the stakeholders involved. The Symposium has been structured to discuss the cutting edge issues relating to the Indian patent regime. Over four sessions, it looks to cover the theoretical justifications for patents, India's role as a country which is a signatory to TRIPS, the contentious issue of pharmaceutical patents and finally an analysis of possible judicial attitudes towards patent law and legislation in India. The Symposium brings together judges of the Supreme Court, patent attorneys from the USA, senior advocates, technical experts, ideologues and activists to facilitate constructive discussion of the issues set out and the best way forward for India's patent law. Prominent speakers include – *Judiciary* Justice AR Lakshmanan, Chairman Law Commission of India; Justice PP Naolekar, Judge Supreme Court of India; Justice Ravindra Bhat, Judge Delhi High Court; Justice DV Shylendra Kumar, Judge Karnataka High Court *Academics* Dr. Anil Gupta, IIM Ahmedabad; Shamnad Basheer, Oxford IP Research Centre; Srividhya Raghavan, Oklahoma University; T. Ramakrishna, NLSIU; Sudhir Krishnaswamy, NLSIU *Bar* Feroz Ali Khader, Advocate High Court of Madras; Aditya Sondhi, Advocate Karnataka High Court; Vinay Aravind, Poovayya & Poovayya *Public Interest* Leena Menghaney, Access Campaign Manager - India, MSF; Mr. Gopa Kumar, CENTAD; Dr. Anand Grover, Director, Lawyers' Collective For registration, please contact Apurva Rai, +919886208285. For more details visit – http://www.nlsir.in/symposium.htm or contact Arghya Sengupta, +919886023232. Regards, Pranesh Prakash From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 09:48:44 2008 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 09:48:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Han blog on Tibet Message-ID: First Time I Feel Ashamed to be Han, and Lucky to Not Be a Party Member China Digital Times[Monday, April 07, 2008 17:26] The following blog post was signed as written by ³a student from the Central University of Nationalities³. Translated by CDT: I¹ve wanted to write something for a while in the wake of the latest developments in Tibetan regions. But after seeing press reports by media outlets from home and abroad, I don¹t know whom to believe in. I lost my judgment. I tried to start writing, but then couldn¹t continue because my feelings are too complex. This afternoon, I talked to a colleague again about this issue and the conversation escalated into a fight. The colleague finally used a very ³Chinese Communist² style to stop me from ³venting angry words.² Faced with irrationality, I zipped my mouth. I¹ve worked with a variety of people, but I didn¹t imagine that there are people who have been brainwashed so much, and I started to realize this issue isn¹t a small matter! The key is, a lot of Han and some ethnic Tibetans with vested interests have become blind to the blue sky, white clouds, green mountains and water. Amidst the long history and mystical culture of Tibet, their brains are only thinking about how to commercialize these things. They don¹t know that many aspects of the Tibetan way of life, religion and custom, culture and values are gradually being dismantled. Neither do they know that the dignity of Tibetans is shedding tears, and many Tibetans are strugglingŠ Looking at Tibet, I sometimes feel ashamed to be a Han. Since first coming to Tibet in 2006 I often think about these issues: What on earth does Tibet need, how should it develop and who does it need to lead that development? I have no power to resist anything, nor do I have the intention to resist, after all our motherland is slowly making progress and our party is gradually inching toward democracy. As an ethnic university graduate and a Han who now works in the Tibetan region, these topics have surrounded me every day of my working life. In a civilized world in the 21st Century, when something incredible happens in a certain area but many people around us (including Tibetans) yell out about a crackdown and mass killing, should we seriously reflect on ourselves: Why? I have picked an article by an alumni [of the Central University of Nationalities] below. As a member of the Chinese nation, no matter which ethnicity, we, the future of the country, shall rethink the whole issue! ===== Those Who Throw Out Angry Rhetoric Please Apologize to Tibetan Compatriots What I write has no intention to be separatist or to damage ethnic solidarity. I love my motherland, love my people and love all my compatriots. I only hope that in this huge family, we can truly love one another, understand and tolerate one another, and truly live a harmonious life. We always mistakenly believe that whatever we do is progressive, but we are repeatedly committing mistakes. While walking on the streets in Lhasa, I always have a subconscious sad feeling. In a sacred place like Lhasa, I cannot find where I belong, and I¹ve lost my direction. Jiangsu Road, Beijing Road, so on and so forth, these names pop up in front of my eyes. Roads named in Tibetan are few in number, and the city makes one feel like being in a mainland town. Children beggars swarm around me and when I see their aspiring eyes and the joy of getting some money, my heart bleeds, and language becomes pale. Occasionally, made-up ladies cozy up and wave toward me, wanting to saying something but I understand they are not just saying hello to me. The whole sacred city is filled with aid construction. I am not saying this is not good, and Tibetan people very much appreciate the help from other ethnic groups and the care from the central government. But those Hunan-aided and Shandong-financed post boards stand up high on the top of buildings, fearing that not enough people will recognize their generosity. But this philanthropic advertising is overstretched. Every ethnicity has its dignity, so imagine, will this hurt the feelings of the Tibetans? And the assistance buildings are not constructed based on Tibetan culture and ideas, but wild shapes and structures. Will Tibetans like these houses? Nowadays, there are so many prostitutes on the boulevards and small lanes, they number at least in the thousands. There was once a women¹s movement that put out a slogan that says ³Sichuan women get out, husbands return home.² Imagine how many people are engaged in prostitution! We cannot blame the Tibetan ethnicity, these are imports from the mainland. And their influence is so deep that it¹s unimaginable. Those colorful women fill the streets wide and narrow and beam their seductive eyes around the crowds, which is for sure a blasphemy on Lhasa¹s image. Still, we have no regret and, instead, have turned the sacred town into a setting of indulgence and satiating lust. Some even say that Tibetans are dark-colored and dirty. Yes, Tibetans are dark-skinned, but they have a red heart and pure belief. Look at us who believe ourselves to be light-colored. We feel proud about our faces being covered with chemical compounds. Tibetans are not dirty, and their hearts are pure and kind. We always stress the importance of Mandarin. Indeed Chinese is important and it¹s our national official language. But in Lhasa and many Tibetan ethnic regions, there is a popular saying that goes, ³Tibetan is a formality but Mandarin is the rice bowl.² That¹s exactly as I see it­Many Tibetan students work hard on Mandarin for their future, and, as a result, many forget their own language. Of course there are a lot of reasons for this, for example some schools don¹t have Tibetan language curriculum at all, and classes of mainland students are not allowed to speak Tibetan, etc. Language is the root of an ethnic group and to a great extent is a symbol that distinguishes one race from another. Without a language, an ethnic culture will also die along with it. On the other hand how many Han people understand Tibetan language and script? Which makes us feel deeply ashamed and sorry. There are so many Tibetans who can fluently speak Mandarin. I don¹t know whether I should be happy or sad about this, but I feel there¹s a serious lack of understanding between the two ethnic groups. Han people have their own holidays and customs, so do the Tibetans. In Lhasa, along with more contact with other ethnic groups, many Tibetans started to celebrate Han holidays, such as dragon boat festival and tomb sweeping festival, etc. But few spend Tibetan holidays with Tibetans. Some say Han culture is so tolerant and so influential. But do you truly understand the Tibetan holidays? When some people talk about sky burial, they associate it with cruelty and horror. But have you ever thought about that when a dead body is incinerated it perishes and when it gets buried it becomes part of the soil, while heavenly burial benefits other animals and alleviates their hunger, thus protecting them. What a noble burial and selfless funeral is this. But it is regarded as barbarian, primitive, cruel. So when you talk about this please read up a little and understand more about it! Many still stubbornly believe that rice is the best staple food. But when told that Tibetans eat Tsangba [roasted barley], their facial expression reflects shock, contempt, dismissal. It¹s ridiculous and stupid and ignorant because tsangba is actually a pure and unpolluted natural food. All these examples are beyond reason but they happen around us. Some only know that there are Tibetans in Tibet, but don¹t know that there are Tibetans in other provinces. Some only know there¹s a Lhasa in Tibet but don¹t know any other place there. But they still randomly say outrageous things about Tibet. Let¹s also talk about those cadres who assisted the development of Tibet. Were/are they really coming to help Tibet? So many of them have returned to their home bases for promotions after a short stint in Tibet. I heard about a friend¹s uncle, who stayed in Tibet for less than four years and took 800,000 yuan back to the mainland. There are many stories like this, going back home from Tibet to skyrocket in their career or buy villas, so on and so forth. Did they come to Tibet to work for the good of Tibetans? How much contribution did they make to Tibet? Where did the money go after the state earmarked it for Tibet? I don¹t even want to imagine, the more I think about it the more frightful it gets. Let me also talk about the inner land (neidi) classes for Tibetans. I don¹t know about other ethnic groups¹ neidi classes but I know quite a bit about the Tibetan ones. Everything they study is written in Mandarin and the history they learn is also Han history. What about Tibetan history? As a Tibetan who doesn¹t know his/her own history, is he/she still a Tibetan? Of course there is reason for this but shall we consider their racial feelings and ethnic belonging? Many years later, many kids have made tremendous progress in Mandarin but their Tibetan level is still elementary. Let me also talk a bit about March 14. China¹s coverage of it has been indeed thorough and detailed. But some issues have been haunting me still. For instance, in the news, a lot of information was ³according to reliable sources/materials.² I don¹t know how reliable these pieces of information are. Where on earth are the sources? Why not tell us, the public? Videos on March 14 shown on the Internet are truly saddening. No matter which ethnic group, it¹s heart-wrenching. But let¹s look at the comments and our netizens, who speak about killing or exterminating in every sentence. Why are we so extremist? Why so partial? How about let¹s try not to preemptively judge certain people without getting the whole story? No ethnic group is composed of all good people. Why not say things like that? Shall we also reflect upon our own behavior and our own mistakes? To kill all Tibetans, isn¹t it a little irresponsible? We did make efforts to develop solidarity and the growth of Han and Tibetan cultures. But we ignore the feelings and belief of Tibetan compatriots. We did give, but we didn¹t do it sincerely enough and not perfectly enough. Not only shall we give in terms of material, but also spiritual, support. We shall offer our help with an equal and caring attitude, not just to do cosmetic work. Think about it: China has run Tibet for so many years and now we have this situation over there, there are so many things we should reflect on about ourselves. We cannot always think that we are always right and we are the best. For those who randomly say outrageous things, please apologize to our kind Tibetan compatriots. Only mutual understanding and trust can build up our truly harmonious societyŠ (Note: this article has been deleted three times on campus Internet forum. It was delayed for republishing today [April 1], only to express my opinion, there¹s no other motive. Viewers¹ tolerance is greatly appreciated.) From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Wed Apr 9 16:22:12 2008 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 03:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Hindi is in danger of declining and extremely polluted Message-ID: <501242.79991.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hindi is in danger of declining and extremely polluted http://agrasen.blogspot.com/ APR 8 08 Support to Urdu is support to Islam and Islamic rule. Many people say Urdu is a Bhaaratiya language and write in support of Urdu. Are these people justified? Here are some more viewpoints. From: ramgopal gupta The tragedy is that Hindu intellectuals, activists, and leaders, of the day, talk of Hindu nation, Hindu Rashtra, but forget that a nation must have a national language and that it had been decided hundred years back, early years of the 20th century, by our national leaders of the time, including Gandhi. It is a different matter that, after 1920, Gandhi resiled in favour of Hindustani, i.e. Urdu written in Devanagari and Persian scripts both, to be on the right side of the Muslims. Gandhi's legatees got the political power, along with the power on all wings of the State, including propaganda. They used every means to demean Hindi and promote Urdu. Many among us are also the victims of that propaganda. The origin of Urdu is a mixture of Turkish, Persian, and Hindi. In its original form, used by Amir Khusro, there was not much difference between Urdu and 'Khari Boli' variant of Hindi, around the 13th century. At that time, Hindi had four main branches (variants), 'Avadhi, 'Braj', 'Bundelkhandi' and 'Khari Boli'. 'Avadhi' and 'Braj' were the main languages of literature, because all literary compositions were then done in verses. 'Khari Boli' was used for prose. Since the 19th century, when press came into being and prose became more important, the Khari Boli rose in importance. In 19th century itself, for political reasons, Muslims declared 'Urdu' as their religious and 'Kaumi', meaning national language and started replacing Hindi and other indigenous words by Persian or Arabic ones. So much so, it has now become radically different from the original Urdu of Amir Khusro's time. Just listen to Urdu news broad-cast on the Doordarshan and see that pronunciation of over 75 per cent words are un-Indian. I wonder if you know that the first poet of Khari Boli (modern Hindi) and Urdu is one, namely, Amir Khusro. Muslims' first separatist battle was to attack introduction of Hindi, by the British government of the time, as a subsidiary official language in its own home State of United Provinces (UP) in 1901. Urdu in its origin form was not a foreign language, but its growth since late 19th century has been Islamic and Arab centric. Now, if you write a verse in Urdu, you have to address God as "Allah" or "Khuda", not "Ishwar" or "Parmeshwara" and praise prophet Muhammed. Otherwise, you have no place in an Urdu Mushaira. In all Islamic madrasas, from Bengal to Gujarat and from Kashmir to extreme South, Urdu is the medium of education. Here is what a distinguished Pakistani scholar, Abdul Haque, speaking on the role of Urdu in the making of Pakistan, said in Karachi on February 15, 1961: "Pakistan was not created by Jinnah, nor was it created by Iqbal. It was Urdu that created it. For, the fundamental reason for the discord between Hindus and Muslims was the Urdu language. The entire two-nation and all other difficulties of this nature issued solely from Urdu". No wonder, Urdu is the official language of Pakistan and of J & K in India. Support to Urdu is support to Islam and Islamic rule. Ram Bhai ------------------ Ravi Bakhsi Whilst Urdu may be what ever it is, the fact is that there is also another Indian language called Hindi, which seems to have been forgotten, overstepped, and dismissed. We should remember that for whatever Urdu is, was or is trying to be, Hindi is supposed to be the national Language of India, and not Hindustani, a misnomer for Urdu. Whilst the observation that just because you speak a language does not mean to say that you partake of the various ideologies associated with it may be true. We should remember that there is a language in India called Hindi, it is supposed to be its national language and it's script & vocabulary is different to Urdu. Sadly I have had various encounters with people of different Indian cultures e.g. Gujaratis, Bengalis etc who speak beautiful Urdu thinking it to be beautiful Hindi. They had unfortunately watched many Bollywood films studiously, putting in a lot of extra hours after work, weekends etc., in their effort to learn a language which was anything but that Hindi. Can you imagine the pain they must have suffered having to sit through all that, for want of a better word, Shit? All that crying, singing, dancing & melodrama for hours and hours? The affect it must have had on their families, mothers in law etc. must have been devastating. Most lovers of Urdu also happen to be lovers of Gazals a tradition of little or no literary merit. Whereas e.g. Haiku, a Japanese Literary art form is studied throughout the world I have yet to encounter translations of these Gazals though I believe they should be translated so we can all say wah! wah! are kya baat hai? after reading them with the prerequisite glass of whisky in our hands. Anyway when we were young and at school, there was a girl named Gazala, and we used to say, Oh look, here comes Gazala with the ears of a Gazelle, I know it was cruel, but there you are. The compiler of the valuable Hindi/ Urdu Vocabulary list, next needs to add columns showing the words in some different Indian languages e.g. Gujarati, Bengali, and also one with their Sanskrit roots. On the whole it is a good composition. Finally Sanskrit and Hindi words in Urdu? Surely you're having a laugh aintchya? Ravi Ravi Bakhsi wrote: Years ago my Father, Dr R.S. Bakhshi, attended Hindi Divas or some such function in India House, London, he was extremely aware of this constant affront to our national language and the attitude of those in power. He absolutely hated Nehru and used to call him Gaddaar and Gandhi a Bastard. Basically he called both of them such names and more and I actually learnt a lot of good swear words in Hindi from his discourses on those 2 characters. Anyway he returned very angry and upset from the meeting. The Indian High Commissioner, a South Indian Moslem Gentleman, was walking around parading a copy of some Urdu newspaper in his pocket. The 'Hindi' poetry etc... was in Urdu. My Father told them all off and asked the High commissioner "why Persian and Arabic vocabulary were being promoted, if you can promote those words why can't you promote the vocabulary of Tamil, Telgu, Malayalam? why do we treat these as step daughters? " The High Commissioner and his aides said that "Hindi Ka hriday bohut vishal hai" and it can incorporate any number of words from any language to make it richer. My Father told them to call their event Urdu Divas next time and left. What is the point being made? The point being made or asked is " What point were India House and the High commissioner making? What point are Moslems making? it is sad when language becomes a pawn in political struggles. Arabic once belonged to Pagan Arabia a country with great respect for India. Persian belongs to an ancient Indo-Aryan group with very close ties and relationship to Sanskrit and our culture. I guess in a way it is if a limb gets gangrenous, it's sad but if you don't cut it off, you stand the risk of dying. My approach has been, "If I can say 'Zaroor' then I can Say 'Avashya' its a matter of habit. If I’m conditioned to think that avashya, avashak, avashakta etc... sound strange, then I can just as much tell myself that Zaroor sounds just as strange, it’s a matter of my conditioning. Step by step I removed as much Arabic from my Hindi as possible and if I can't, at least I am aware of its root. We should at least be aware of the roots and origins of words in our language. I refuse to accept this Urdu words business, there is no such thing, and the words belong to Arabic, Turkish or Persian. I have nothing against those Languages but will speak them as soon as they show respect to mine. Regarding inclusion of foreign vocabulary, 'Le Institute Françoise' meet every Year or so to decide which new words can be included in French, its a serious affair and its reports are published in newspapers soon after. Who are we to randomly decide which words our language should accept or not? Where is our council of Hindi scholars? If we don't take care of our language it will soon join the "ainit" brand that English is becoming. Finally I remember reading Urdu described as "a bastardised form of Persian". Ravi -------------- savarkar vinayak Everybody talks in such 'Secularism' terms and thus destroys our own originality. May I say you are wrong to say that Urdu is an Indian language; it has been promoted by Congress Governments to appease Muslims and see where the nation has landed. So keep up with Hindi language and they too will understand Hindi and that way also you will promoting this language. Most of the people rush to comment on these articles. These show their extremely poor knowledge of the subject. For people who say that Urdu is a Bhaaratiya language. They are not only blind to see the danger of Urdu language, but they do not understand that it does not give it the right of intrusion of Urdu words in Hindi. People who say that Urdu is Bhaaratiya language, why for them intrusion of Urdu words in Hindi are important while proper Hindi words are available. Moreover if Hindi needs words then it must be taken from Tamil, Telgu, Kannad, Malayalam, Bengali etc. languages. Rudy Mishra A mixture remains a mixture. and that mixture is being bent towards Arabic. While the computer generation is moving towards the use of Sanskrit-the purest form of language there is-some people are bent on pleasing the murders, rapist, robbers and looters of our Motherland. They have no pride left in them. It would be worth enquiring if there is some cross-breeding in their family background. ------ Poison is also locally grown. If the poison is of local origin, it does not mean that every body needs it. If the product is of local origin, then its usefulness is assessed. Urdu has become the language of Muslims and it is also language of division. Much poison comes out through Urdu against Hindus. Urdu language people if it is possible do not accept Hindi words. Urdu people look words from Arabic, Farsi or Turkish languages before adopting words from Hindi or other Bhaaratiya languages. Urdu language was born in India, during Mogul time. The word Urdu in Turkish language means " battle field " it was designed for secret language for military use, from mix of all Indian languages, including Sanskrit, Hindi, Persian, Arabic, and some other Indian languages. Traitors are also born in the Bhaaratiya country; such people destroy the nation or help foreigners in making country slave nations. Similarly poison is also a local grown product, it also destroy or kills other native people who come in contact with locally grown product. Urdu is such a local product. http://agrasen.blogspot.com/2008/04/hindi-is-in-danger-of-declining-and.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From sonia.jabbar at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 17:43:35 2008 From: sonia.jabbar at gmail.com (S. Jabbar) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:43:35 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The Hindu on Tibet Message-ID: Letter to the Editor: The Hindu's bias in favour of the Chinese Government in its editorial on Tibet (March 28, 2008) is dismaying. The reasons behind the recent demonstrations by Tibetans are transparent. You speak of sustained growth, omitting the fact that Han Chinese control the economy, Party and government. Impartial observers have documented the onslaught on natural resources, the repression of Buddhism, the enforced denunciations of the Dalai Lama. The subjugation of Tibet is most evident in re-settlement policy. In 1952 Chairman Mao complained that there were "hardly any Han in Tibet." By 1953 there were 100,000 Chinese in the province of Qinghai, the renamed eastern Tibetan province of Amdo. In 1985 there were 2.5 million Chinese and 750,000 Tibetans in Qinghai. By the 2000 census only 20% of Qinghai's population was Tibetan. This demographic engineering undermines the comparison you draw between Tibet and Kashmir. Right-wing groups in India have long demanded the re-settlement of the Kashmir Valley. However, Article 370 disallows non-state subjects from buying land; and it is to allay Kashmiri anxieties that New Delhi has not granted autonomy or separate statehood for Ladakh and Jammu. Beijing's abusive denunciations of the Dalai Lama and its stonewalling of his proposals make it difficult to accept their sincerity. A just solution "within the framework of one China" is precisely what the Dalai Lama has pursued. The Hindu's wholesale reproduction of the official Chinese line on Tibet does it little credit. Yours sincerely, Sonia Jabbar Ramachandra Guha Mukul Kesavan Madhu Sarin Jyotirmaya Sharma Dilip Simeon Tenzin Sonam Shashi Tharoor From dhatr1i at yahoo.com Wed Apr 9 18:06:25 2008 From: dhatr1i at yahoo.com (we wi) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 05:36:25 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested a Delhi-basedJournalist In-Reply-To: <9BE33FFC-D9CF-44B5-998F-25F4C6F4BE82@sarai.net> Message-ID: <595098.41323.qm@web45505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Haha Exhausted Suddhabrata, >>For all I care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day Adventist, a >>lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire need of >>therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent) Santan >>Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet. I contradict over and above with the term "alcoholic Santan Dharmi"? What do you exactly mean by using that term? I observe the possible conclusions as 1) One should not follow "Sanatan Dharm" at all? 2) All ALCOHOLICS in INDIA or abroad mystifying the world as "Sanatan Dharmis"? 3) Those who are all following "Sanatan Dharm" are ALCOHOLICS? 4) Those who ever following "Sanatan Dharm" do belong to BAJARANGDAL,VHP,BJP,RSS,SHIVSENA? 5) "Sanatan Dharmis" not at all present in CONGRESS,CPI and CPM? Possibly the 2nd one is most suitable and correct anyway, Please let me know how much can be gained for a defamation as I am fighting a minor litigation, I am thinking to file a "defamation" as well. I request you please don't ask a service charge for this. Regards, Dhatri. Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: Radhikarajen, I am curious to know, where in the post by Arshad Amanullah you have read that the journalist, Nadim Ahmad, had violated any law? Which law do you think has been violated? Where (in Arshad's posting) do you find the evidence of this violation? The report forwarded by Arshad mentions the editor of Mr. Ahmad's newspaper citing conversations with a police officer about the journalist, his whereabouts and his assignment, and even the police officer who is quoted in the forwarded report does not seem to indicate that the Mr. Ahmad had broken any law. Which leap of imagination then impels you to make the assumption that he had? I find it disgusting that you should assume that the journalist has violated any law whatsoever, without any stated proof to that effect. All that we can surmise from reading the above mentioned report is that Mr. Ahmad was doing his job - making enquiries in a completely legitimate manner, as journalists are supposed to do. Morover, nowhere, in the posting that Arshad has forwarded, is there any reference to Mr. Ahmad's faith, or his relationship to an organization called SIMI, and yet, I can see that you cannot resist the cheap temptation of stating that - (and I am quoting you directly here) - "he is journalist (sic), that does not mean he is above the law, he can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor (sic), support and shield the few fanatics because he is journalist, that is when conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion is used to propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now banned does. If system of governance arrests a few, who are in subversion of laws, planning violent acts in the guise of religion and its freedom, laws have to take care of such deviant behaviour in free society." Where, in Arshad's posting do you find grounds to believe that the journalist, "sheltered, supported and shielded" any "fanatics"? Is it only on the grounds of his name, and what we can learn about the possibility of his beliefs, again on the basis of that name. What can we learn on the basis of a name. If I take your name for instance, I cannot even tell whether you are male or female, whether you are Hindu, or a person of another faith, or no faith at all, who happens to have the Sanskrit names of a hindu deity (Radhika) and the term for a royal personage, (Rajen) attached to his/her name. For all I care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day Adventist, a lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire need of therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent) Santan Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet. Your name gives me no real indication whatsoever, actually. And any negative judgements that I, or anyone esle would make about you, your motives, your character, your personality on the basis of your name would be totally indefensible. If I had to make judgements, they would have to rely on your actions and your statments, not your name. Now, let us assume that I was a journalist, trying to investigate the detention of the activists of a supposedly 'Hindu' organization like the Bajrang Dal. Now let us further assume that I was arrested, in the course of doing so. Would you, or anyone else, then be taken seriously, if you or they, made a statement to the effect that I was arrested, because I was "sheltering, supporting and shielding" the activists of the Bajrang Dal (because Shuddhabrata Sengupta sounds, in an appropriately deadpan Sanskritic way, like an ostensibly 'hindu' name, though it actually says next to nothing about my personal convictions in the matter of religion). Such an allegation, if it were not backed by any substantive proof, would be patently absurd. Similarly, your implicit allegations (which infer connections and convergences of purpose between SIMI activists and Nadim Ahmad solely on the grounds of the incidental 0 and therefore irrelevant - marker of Mr. Ahmad's name), are equally absurd. You, sir, or madam, or whatever you may be, are the true fanatic here. You cannot resist making broad generalizations about other peoples' character based on nothing other than the sound of their name. It really shows how narrow the bandwidth of your intelligence and your imagination is. I think you owe this list an apology, and I suggest that you study the Indian Penal Code carefully before making flimsy allegations about being above or below the law. The law can be used quite effectively against people like you who make baseless and wild allegations about other people's character and conduct. I suggest you take a careful look at section 499 of the Indian Penal Code, it spells out the law of a crime called defamation. Be careful. no regards whatsoever, not to you, not this time, Shuddhabrata On 08-Apr-08, at 6:21 PM, radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote: > Losten my friend, he is journalist, that does not mean he is above > the law, he can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor, > support and shield the few fanatics because he is journalist, that > is when conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion is > used to propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now > banned does. If system of governance arrests a few, who are in > subversion of laws, planning violent acts in the guise of religion > and its freedom, laws have to take care of such deviant behaviour > in free society. Be it a hindu, muslim or any faith, group of > individuals who are traitors to the society for the "religion" are > not citizens who deserve to be spared as law has to take care of > such deviant behaviour., irrespective of the system of governance, > or the political party that rules the state, why is it that some > point out such incidents as if system is against the faith, but not > against lawless behaviour by "journalist. ? > > Regatrds. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: arshad amanullah > Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 10:42 pm > Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested a Delhi- > basedJournalist > To: reader-list at sarai.net > >> www.milligazette.com >> >> New Delhi, 7 April 2008: Late last evening the police >> in the BJP-ruled state of Madhya Pradesh arrested a >> Delhi-based journalist who had gone there to report on >> recent arrests in the state. >> >> The journalist is Mr Nadim Ahmad, a staffer of The >> Milli Gazette fortnightly English-language newspaper >> published from Delhi since 2000. >> >> Ahmad was arrested by the police early 6 April evening >> in village Aroda/Choral under Balwada Police Station, >> Distt Khargone, Indore Range. Contact with Ahmad was >> possible until late in the evening on his mobile phone >> (# 09911334768). However, since this morning he is not >> picking up his phone while Police Inspector Sunil >> Visthre (mobile # 09926670086), who took Ahmad in >> custody, is not responding to calls on his mobile. >> Enquiries with highest police officials in Indore have >> failed to help trace the whereabout of the arrested >> journalist. The Milli Gazette editor, Dr Zafarul-Islam >> Khan, has written in this matter to Mr Shivraj Patil, >> the Union Home Minister, MP Governor Mr Balram Jhakar, >> MP Chief Minister Mr Shivraj Singh Chauhan, MP home >> minister Mr. Himmat Kothari, as well as to top police >> officials in MP state. >> >> If the journalist remains untraceable, Dr Khan plans >> to file a habeas corpus suit in the Supreme Court of >> India tomorrow, 8 April. >> >> [end] >> >> Issued by The Milli Gazette >> D-84 Abul Fazal Enclave-I >> Jamia Nagar, New Delhi 110 025 >> Tel. (011) 26942883, 26947483, 26952825 >> Email: edit at milligazette.com >> Website: www.milligazette.com >> >> Following is the text of the letter sent by Dr >> Zafarul-Islam Khan, Editor, The Milli Gazette, on 7 >> April 2008 via fax, email and courier to a number of >> central and MP state authorities: >> >> "This is to inform you that we are a registered >> English-language fortnightly newspaper published >> regularly since January 2000 (registered RNI number >> DELENG/2000/930). A few days back we sent Mr Nadim >> Ahmad, one of our full-time staff reporters, to >> Sarangpur, Madhya Pradesh, to report on communal >> violence there. At about same time news of arrests of >> alleged SIMI members also came from an adjacent area >> in the state, so I instructed him to go to Indore as >> well to report on the situation there and to visit >> some places from where arrests were made. Mr Ahmad >> reached Indore yesterday, 6 April 2008, and after >> making enquiries about the location of the concerned >> areas, went to village Aroda/Choral under Balwada >> Police Station, Distt Khargone, Indore Range (Thana >> phone No. 07280-261237) whose in-charge is Town >> Inspector Mr Sunil Visthre (mobile no. 09926670086). >> Inspector Visthre spoke to me last night at around 8-9 >> pm using Mr Ahmad's mobile no. 09911334768 asking why >> he was in the area. It was explained to him that Mr >> Ahmad was a full-time staff reporter of this paper and >> he was there at my instructions to report on the >> recent arrests. Inspector Visthre told me that there >> was nothing to worry about and Mr Ahmad is helping >> enquiries and he is not under arrest. >> >> My last contact with Ahmad was at 11.06 pm yesterday >> (6 April 08) on his mobile phone in which he said he >> is alright and was answering questions by the police; >> Inspector Visthre also spoke to me over the same phone >> at that time and told me that there is nothing to >> worry about as they were only trying to establish the >> reason why Mr Nadim was in the area.. Mr Nadim Ahmad's >> last call was at 1.28 am on 7-4-08 which I could not >> receive as I had gone to bed by that time. In the >> morning I tried to contact Mr Ahmad using his mobile >> number but there was no response. Thereafter, I phoned >> Balwada Thana at the above phone number and was >> informed that Inspector Visthre has taken Mr Ahmad to >> Indore in the morning at 6 AM. Efforts to contact Mr >> Ahmad since then have failed; Inspector Visthre too is >> not taking up calls to his mobile. After this, I >> phoned Indore Superintendent of Police Mr Anshuman >> Yadav on his mobile no. 09425115144 at 11.30 am (7 >> April 08). He told me that he had no information about >> this matter. >> >> As of now, my apprehension is that Mr Nadim Ahmad has >> been arrested and kept under custody at an unknown >> place for no reason whatsoever as he was only >> discharging his duties as a journalist to investigate >> matters of common and media interest. I fear that >> under the current charged atmosphere in the state of >> Madhya Pradesh, Mr Ahmad may have been falsely >> implicated in some matter and illegally deprived of >> his liberty. I request you to immediately intervene in >> this matter and ensure the freedom of press guaranteed >> by our Constitution and laws." >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- >> list >> List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: Shuddhabrata Sengupta The Sarai Programme at CSDS Raqs Media Collective shuddha at sarai.net www.sarai.net www.raqsmediacollective.net _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From justjunaid at rediffmail.com Wed Apr 9 18:21:47 2008 From: justjunaid at rediffmail.com (junaid) Date: 9 Apr 2008 12:51:47 -0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch slam Indian human rights abuses in Kashmir Message-ID: <20080409125147.4516.qmail@f4mail-235-146.rediffmail.com> http://www.amnesty.nl/voor_de_pers_artikel/31437?PHPSESSID=975c9807c483e274bdec9288f1c26a86   Amnesty International   India should investigate all allegations of enforced disappearances in Jammu and Kashmir following reports of mass graves   8 April 2008:   Amnesty International urges the Government of India to launch urgent investigations into hundreds of unidentified graves discovered since 2006 in Jammu and Kashmir. The investigation must be independent, impartial and follow international standards. The grave sites are believed to contain the remains of victims of unlawful killings, enforced disappearances, torture and other abuses which occurred in the context of armed conflict persisting in the state since 1989. The graves of at least 940 persons have reportedly been found in 18 villages in Uri district alone.Unlawful killings, enforced disappearances and torture are violations of both international human rights law and international humanitarian law, set out in treaties to which India is a state party and in customary international law. They also constitute international crimes. Amnesty International calls on the Government of India to comply with its international obligations in this regard, as well as act on the commitment displayed through its signing of the United Nations? Convention for the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearances on 6 February 2007 by ordering prompt, thorough, independent and impartial investigations into all past and current allegations of enforced disappearances. A report issued on 29 March 2008 by the Srinagar-based Association of the Parents of Disappeared Persons (APDP), Facts under Ground, indicated the existence of multiple graves in localities which, because of their proximity of the Line of Control with Pakistan, are not accessible without the specific permission on the security forces. In response to the report army spokespersons again claimed that those found buried were armed rebels and ?foreign militants? killed lawfully in armed encounters with military forces. However the report detailed testimonies from local villagers saying that most of those buried were local residents hailing from the state. These are serious allegations that must be fully investigated. While the report alleges that more than 8,000 persons have gone missing in Jammu and Kashmir since 1989, the central and state authorities state that the total amounts to less than 4.000, and that most of these went to Pakistan to join armed opposition groups. In 2006 a state police report confirmed the deaths in custody of 331 persons and also 111 enforced disappearances following detention since 1989. Since the early 1990s, Amnesty International has issued a series of reports and statements on the human rights situation in Jammu and Kashmir detailing arbitrary detentions by the security forces and the state police and enforced disappearances. For instance, see India: ?An unnatural fate?- "Disappearances" and impunity in the Indian States of Jammu and Kashmir and Punjab, AI Index: ASA 20/042/1993; India: "If they are dead, tell us": "Disappearances" in Jammu and Kashmir, AI Index: ASA 20/002/1998; Open Letter to Chief Minister Mufti Mohammed Sayeed, AI Index: ASA 20/020/2002 and India: Armed groups in Jammu and Kashmir targeting civilians, AI Index: ASA 20/016/2005. The organisation has also consistently opposed human rights abuses perpetrated by armed opposition groups, repeatedly appealing to them to abide by minimum standards of international humanitarian law which prohibit hostage-taking, torture and killing of people taking no active part in hostilities including members of the Hindu community and issued several statements documenting the same. Amnesty International reiterates its grave concern that the state has failed to take responsibility to ascertain the fate or the whereabouts of a majority of the disappeared persons, especially in response to habeas corpus petitions filed in the state?s courts. In addition, while Amnesty International has welcomed efforts of the judiciary in a number of high profile cases - including the Chattisingpura case in which a series of court hearings established that the security service had extrajudicially executed five local residents while claiming lawful use of force against suspected ?foreign militants? - the organization remains concerned that judicial inquiries into individual complaints are rare and the rights of victim to justice and redress remains unfulfilled. In the light of the above, Amnesty International urges the Government of India to: unequivocally reiterate condemnation of enforced disappearances in Jammu & Kashmir; ensure that prompt, thorough, independent and impartial investigations into all sites of mass graves in Jammu and Kashmir are immediately carried out by forensic experts in line with UN Model Protocol on the disinterment and analysis of skeletal remains;make available adequate resources; and seek and accept offers of assistance and cooperation from international experts, both in carrying out the work itself, and in training local personnel engaged in the work. As an immediate step, the grave sites must be secured in order to preserve the evidence; ensure that all past and current allegations of enforced disappearances are promptly, thoroughly, independently and impartially investigated and that, where there is sufficient evidence, anyone suspected of responsibility for such crimes is prosecuted in proceedings which meet international fair trial standards; ensure that all victims of unlawful killings, enforced disappearance and torture are granted full reparations, including restitution, compensation, rehabilitation, satisfaction and guarantees of non-repetition; consider assigning the civilian prosecutor?s office with the jurisdiction to investigate all cases of suspected enforced disappearances, whichever military, security or law enforcement agency is suspected of being involved; and provide the civilian prosecutor?s office with the mandate and authority necessary to be able to effectively investigate all such cases; create a single authoritative and comprehensive database of the names and details, including where possible DNA information, of all individuals who have gone missing, who have been subjected to enforced disappearance, or abducted in Jammu and Kashmir since 1989, and create a single official database logging details of all unidentified bodies found in Jammu and Kashmir. Make both databases public and accessible to relatives of these people; ratify without delay and without any reservations the UN Convention for the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearance, make declarations pursuant to Articles 31 and 32 recognizing the competence of the Committee on Enforced Disappearances to receive communications from individuals and states, enact effective implementing legislation and implement it in practice; Ratify the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court; facilitate the long-standing requests for visits to India including Jammu and Kashmir, by the UN Special Procedures, in accordance with their long-established terms of reference for missions, in particular the UN Special Rapporteur on torture, the UN Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions, and the UN Working Group on Enforced or Involuntary Disappearances by setting dates for them to undertake missions in the near future. Amnesty International urges the state authorities to support the actions of the Government of India and ensure all detentions in the state are carried out in accordance with proper procedures, meeting the strict requirements of international law and standards, including by ensuring detaining officials are identifiable by wearing visible ID numbers and for the registration numbers of vehicles to be clearly visible; ensuring all detentions are properly logged; providing medical examination of detainees on entering, transfer and release from detention, ensuring all detainees have prompt access to family members, lawyers and independent courts where they may challenge the lawfulness of their detention, and ensuring accountability for any violations of such procedures; ensure no one faces reprisals for seeking the truth about the fate of their disappeared relative; establish safeguards against reprisals in order to protect all complainants, victims and witnesses in accordance with international standards; work with the Union government authorities and international experts to exhume the sites of mass graves in Jammu and Kashmir in accordance with international standards. Ensure the sites are protected from any interference pending such exhumation; work with the Union government authorities to create a comprehensive database of the names and details of all individuals who have gone missing, who have been subjected to enforced disappearance, or abducted in Jammu and Kashmir since 1999 and to create a single official database logging details of all unidentified bodies found in the state; provide full reparation, including restitution, rehabilitation, compensation, satisfaction and guarantees of non-repetition, to the victims and their families.             http://hrw.org/english/docs/2008/04/07/india18442_txt.htm India: UN Rights Council Should Tackle Impunity Government Scrutinized for Failing to Protect Minority Rights (New York, April 07, 2008) ? The United Nations Human Rights Council (HRC) should insist that the Indian government take strong steps to hold accountable members of its security forces responsible for torture, arbitrary detentions, killings, and ?disappearances,? Human Rights Watch said today. The HRC should also demand that the government fulfill its responsibility to protect and support vulnerable communities, including Dalits, tribal groups, religious minorities, and women. India?s human rights record comes under the first-ever Universal Periodic Review (UPR) when the HRC meets in Geneva on April 10, 2008.   ?India is a vibrant electoral democracy with an abysmal human rights record,? said Brad Adams, Asia director at Human Rights Watch. ?Victims of abuse in India are counting on the Human Rights Council to put maximum pressure on the government to address these problems.?   In its submission to the UPR, India said it has adopted various measures for the protection of human rights, including the training of government officials, armed forces, prison officials, and law officers. It said that such measures have had a ?beneficial effect? and that there has been a ?decline of complaints of human rights violations even from areas affected by insurgency and terrorist activities and violence.?   While Human Rights Watch welcomes the government?s efforts to properly train its security forces and other officials, human rights violations remain rampant. Security forces in India continue to be responsible for grave human rights abuses during counter-insurgency operations, such as in Jammu and Kashmir, Assam and Manipur. Serious abuses are being committed in the many states where there is a violent campaign by Maoist ?Naxalite? groups. Further, the government is ignoring the crime of forced disappearances from past conflicts in Punjab and Nagaland.   Extrajudicial executions, often disguised as encounters with armed criminals, have become the norm and are widely reported in Indian media. Torture and arbitrary detentions continue, not just in insurgency-affected areas, but also in most police stations in the country. Yet India continues to provide effective immunity from prosecution to its security forces and other public officials. When investigations are started, they are often blocked. The army and other special forces, in particular, remain almost completely above the law.   Human Rights Watch called on the HRC to demand that India remove all immunity clauses in Indian law, such as that in section 197 of the Criminal Procedure Code. India should also accept the recommendation of various government-appointed experts and repeal the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, which has allowed widespread human rights violations by security forces with impunity.   ?India likes to tell the world that it has a world class legal system that allows it to solve its own problems, but the reality on the ground is far different,? said Adams. ?Killers and torturers in the army and police do their work with official protection, degrading the law and taking the shine off of India?s claim to be an emerging world leader. Now is the time to repeal antiquated laws that protect abusers.?   In its submission for the UPR, India claimed that it has ?embarked on a programme of affirmative action which is, perhaps, without parallel in scale and dimension in human history.? The policies are intended to end discrimination against Scheduled Castes and Tribes, and provide quotas in jobs, education and political representation. India cited policy initiatives and legislation, including the recent Scheduled Tribes and Other Traditional Forest Dwellers (Recognition of Forest Rights) Act, which recognizes customary land rights of these communities.   These efforts are welcome and the necessary foundation for reform. However, India has failed to effectively implement these policies and laws. Dalits, tribals and other so-called backward classes continue to suffer severe discrimination, exploitation and violence. They are routinely denied access to land, water and shelter, forced to work in degrading conditions, and abused at the hands of the police and private actors belonging to so-called higher caste groups. These vulnerable groups also have unequal access to services, employment opportunities, justice mechanisms, and development programs. Protection for Dalits, tribals and other groups is limited because officials and police responsible for abuses or failing to discharge their duties to protect vulnerable persons routinely go unpunished.   India has repeatedly refused to substantively engage with the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, disputing its claim that discrimination on the ground of caste is fully covered by the International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination.   ?In its report to the Human Rights Council, India has cited numerous laws and policies to protect human rights,? said Adams. ?But as victims, lawyers and activists in India tell us every day, human rights abuses are rampant in India because there is little will in the government to properly implement these laws. While these are fine words on paper, those facing ?faked encounter killings? or ?dowry deaths? need effective action.?   While India cites secularism as the fundamental tenet of its constitution and touts policies and institutions established for the protection of minority rights, including the National Commission for Minorities, religious minorities continue to face discrimination, particularly in access to housing and employment and to suffer violent attacks from Hindu militant groups. For example, in December 2007 hundreds of churches and Christian homes were destroyed in attacks by Hindu militants in Orissa state in eastern India. The Indian government has yet to hold perpetrators accountable for riots in which Muslims came under attack from Hindu mobs. It has failed to implement the Srikrishna Commission recommendations on the 1992-93 communal riots in Mumbai. The commission proposed action against police responsible for instigating or participating in the violence. The government has taken little action to address the 2002 attacks on Muslims in Gujarat. The violence started after 59 people died when a train carriage carrying Hindus caught fire during a Muslim mob attack. In a retaliatory spree led by Hindu militant groups, hundreds of Muslims were slaughtered, tens of thousands were displaced, and their property was destroyed. In March 2008, the Supreme Court directed the Gujarat government to set up a special investigation team (SIT) to further probe 14 cases from the 2002 riots. As the court said: ?If in the name of religion, people are liquidated it is essentially a slur and blot on society governed by the Constitution of India which in its Preamble refers to secularism.?   Human Rights Watch also called on the HRC to press India to strengthen its official human rights mechanisms. The Indian government often refers to a number of ?Ombudsman type institutions,? particularly the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC), that it says ensures the protection of human rights. However, these institutions are weak, under-staffed, and often ignored. The national and state governments often do not act upon the findings and recommendations of these bodies.   The NHRC itself has complained about restrictions that prevent the commission from performing a meaningful role in addressing impunity. Under section 19 of the Human Rights Protection Act, when the NHRC receives a complaint of a human rights violation by the armed forces, it cannot independently investigate the case but can only seek a report from the central government and make recommendations. The state human rights commissions are invariably poorly funded and stacked with political appointees, making them ineffective in addressing ongoing human rights violations.   India also urgently needs to reform its policing systems. Junior police officials operate in abysmal working conditions, which make it more likely that they will succumb to corruption and brutality. Senior officers, on the other hand, complain of improper interference from politicians. There is an urgent need for proper training in criminal investigations and access to forensic tools for evidence gathering, which will decrease the pervasive culture of torture and mistreatment during interrogation to obtain forced confessions.   ?Adequate resources and political support must be given to India?s human rights commissions to investigate abuses,? Adams said. ?And so long as police officers live in terrible conditions and effectively are permanently on duty, the police are likely to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution.?   In discussing its commitment to international human rights norms, India claimed in its report to the UPR that ?voluntary pledges and commitments made by India have been fulfilled and the rest are being carried out in earnest.?   India has still not invited the UN?s Special Rapporteur on torture, the Special Rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions, or the Working Group on arbitrary detention to conduct in-country missions.   India has also ignored recommendations by UN bodies on human rights. For example, in 1997 the UN Human Rights Committee expressed concern about legislation such as the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, the Public Safety Act, and the National Security Act. It also expressed concern that criminal or civil proceedings against members of the security forces, acting under special powers, could not be commenced without permission from the central government, contributing to a climate of impunity and depriving people of a remedy. Several treaty bodies, including CERD and the Committee on the Rights of the Child, have expressed concern about human rights violations by security forces, including custodial deaths, rape, torture, and arbitrary detention. The Working Group on enforced or involuntary disappearances has reported on cases related to insurgencies in Punjab, Jammu and Kashmir, and in the northeastern states. India has failed to address these concerns.   India is yet to ratify the Convention against Torture, and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. Human Rights Watch welcomed the fact that India has signed the Convention on Enforced Disappearances and looks forward to its prompt ratification, but urged the government to take concrete measure to effectively address allegations of widespread disappearances in Punjab, Jammu and Kashmir.   ?As the world?s largest democracy, India should set the standard for the Universal Periodic Review at the Human Rights Council,? said Adams. ?India must make credible commitments to uphold its constitutional and international obligations and provide justice to those who continue to suffer human rights abuse.?     From vikash.sen at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 18:21:30 2008 From: vikash.sen at gmail.com (Bikash Ballabh Singh) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 05:51:30 -0700 Subject: [Reader-list] Olympic Torch to face Freedom Torch in India Message-ID: <25c340bd0804090551p9f2ed7ftfe24887ccb6fc85@mail.gmail.com> Tibetans and their support groups in India are planning to hold parallel torch march on April 17, coinciding with the Olympic Torch relay run in New Delhi. The 'Freedom Torch' march will be taken out in eight Indian cities including the capital. ** THERE WOULD be a parallel torch relay march in several Indian cities the same day when the Olympic Torch relay run would take place. Tibetan support groups and Tibetans residing in India have planned these marches in seven or eight cities. Mumbai, Bangalore, Chennai, Chandigarh, Dharamshala are on their radar besides New Delhi. The main show will be, obviously, in the capital. Informed sources claim that more than one thousand Tibetans will be present in the march everywhere. "We will try to keep our march peaceful in all the cities. In fact, the Tibet issue has already achieved so much publicity this time that we don't need to do anything drastic," they say. But, the young Tibetans, in a way, are somewhat unpredictable in nature. All support groups accept this. When contacted, co-convener of the Core Group for Tibetan Cause, Vijay Kranti said, "If government of India resorts to preventive arrests of Tibetan people in the name of smooth Olympic Torch relay run, the young Tibetans will be provoked, as we have seen in the past." In Delhi, Tibetans will be demanding Jantar-Mantar for their parallel torch show. The government may hesitate to allot this place to them, as it is only one km away from the Rajpath, where the Olympic Torch relay run will be on and where the security agencies are planning for a very heavy deployment. Can the unpredictability of younger lot of Tibetans be provoked by the refusal of allotment of Jantar-Mantar area to them for their march in New Delhi? No one has the correct answer. Kranti says, "If the government threatens them by resorting to preventive arrests, if it doesn't allow their march on Jantar-Mantar and if India allows Chinese guards to run with the Olympic Torch, we cannot predict the result. We can only say that the Freedom Torch march will be peaceful." "India should not allow the Chinese policemen to run with the Olympic Torch in the name of its security. It will be shameful for our country. India should come forward to announce that our agencies are capable for the security of the Olympic Torch," he asserted. Source: http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=132157 From radhikarajen at vsnl.net Wed Apr 9 18:23:15 2008 From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net (radhikarajen at vsnl.net) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:53:15 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] The Hindu on Tibet In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I very much appreciate your concern and anguish, but it is wellknown fact that our "cadres" always hail china and welcome them with painting red the whole of the city like they did in 1962.The very fact that the line marked as Mcmohan line as border between british india in 1945 after the end of world war, even today remains unsurveyed, thanks to our cadre friends engineering hindi-chini bhai bhai. It is not late even now to make a joint survey and with dialogue end the border row and disputes with China, then two nations, the developing economies of Asia, both India and China can have honourable interaction with all nations in the comity of nations, even US would be thinking twice if our leaders think of the nation and its freedom than kickbacks in N-deal for the first family.! Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: "S. Jabbar" Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 5:44 pm Subject: [Reader-list] The Hindu on Tibet To: sarai list > > > Letter to the Editor: > > The Hindu's bias in favour of the Chinese Government in its > editorial on > Tibet (March 28, 2008) is dismaying. The reasons behind the recent > demonstrations by Tibetans are transparent. You speak of sustained > growth,omitting the fact that Han Chinese control the economy, > Party and > government. Impartial observers have documented the onslaught on > naturalresources, the repression of Buddhism, the enforced > denunciations of the > Dalai Lama. > > The subjugation of Tibet is most evident in re-settlement policy. > In 1952 > Chairman Mao complained that there were "hardly any Han in Tibet." > By 1953 > there were 100,000 Chinese in the province of Qinghai, the renamed > easternTibetan province of Amdo. In 1985 there were 2.5 million > Chinese and 750,000 > Tibetans in Qinghai. By the 2000 census only 20% of Qinghai's > population was > Tibetan. > > This demographic engineering undermines the comparison you draw > betweenTibet and Kashmir. Right-wing groups in India have long > demanded the > re-settlement of the Kashmir Valley. However, Article 370 disallows > non-state subjects from buying land; and it is to allay Kashmiri > anxietiesthat New Delhi has not granted autonomy or separate > statehood for Ladakh and > Jammu. > > Beijing's abusive denunciations of the Dalai Lama and its > stonewalling of > his proposals make it difficult to accept their sincerity. A just > solution"within the framework of one China" is precisely what the > Dalai Lama has > pursued. > > The Hindu's wholesale reproduction of the official Chinese line on > Tibetdoes it little credit. > > Yours sincerely, > > Sonia Jabbar > Ramachandra Guha > Mukul Kesavan > Madhu Sarin > Jyotirmaya Sharma > Dilip Simeon > Tenzin Sonam > Shashi Tharoor > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: From rashneek at gmail.com Thu Apr 10 09:18:59 2008 From: rashneek at gmail.com (rashneek kher) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 09:18:59 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Will Kashmiri Hindu Pandits Ever Return To Their Homeland by J.N.Raina(Asian Tribune) Message-ID: <13df7c120804092048y74f2a509o3e545230e438a6e2@mail.gmail.com> By J.N. Raina - Syndicate Features Jamaat-e-Islami leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani's call for the return of the Kashmiri Hindu Pandits to their ancestral abode is ludicrous. The community has almost been exterminated from the Elysian valley, through the planned process of ethnic cleansing, sporadically, especially since independence, when India became a secular and democratic nation. Over five lakh Kashmiri Hindus live like refugees in their own country. Now their number might have proportionately increased during 18 years of their "exile." They were forced to flee like pigeons from their home and hearth at the point of gun, when Pakistan-sponsored terrorism erupted during 1989-90. Their houses were repeatedly plundered by the Muslim fundamentalists, assisted by gun-wielding militants in the nefarious "operation." Several hundred temples and places of worship were either desecrated or destroyed during militancy, which is still on. Geelani's call is mischievous. He is not honest in saying that the Kashmiri Pandits should only return to their 'native places' where their "old Muslim neighbours would receive them with open arms"; and that they should not 'opt' for living in the 'security zones', because that according to him is "impractical and rather fraught with dangers". Perhaps Geelani and his cohorts are treating the proposed 'home-coming' as a return of the prodigals. It is apparent from the tone and tenor adopted by the diehard Geelani and many others of his ilk. Geelani's call came on the heels of the Jammu and Kashmir Government's announcement of a 'grand' rehabilitation plan for the Kashmiri Hindu migrants, under which a cluster of houses and flats are being constructed, under a comprehensive package. These will be ready within this year, or may be earlier, to coincide with the elections to the state Assembly. But one would like to ask Geelani, where are the so-called 'old houses' of these Kashmiri Pandits? Where are their landed properties? Where are their apple and almond orchards; temples and religious places, palatial buildings, paddy fields, business establishments et al. Their dwellings were pulled down after their mass exodus in early 1990. No one dared to go back and see these damaged properties or even to file an FIR. Police proved helpless. Many houses were grabbed. Roughly, over 80 per cent of the migrants disposed of their properties under pressure and unforeseen circumstances, and that too at throwaway prices. Surprisingly, after the sale deeds were conducted, prices went up significantly so that the migrants do not return to the valley. It was all manipulated. Where from the money came to purchase these properties at one go? It is generally believed that Kashmiris are poor. The Pandits are in wilderness. When I visited the then Hindu-dominated locality of Habbakadal in 2005, it wore an eerie and deserted look. Even dogs would not struggle to bark. It may sound hypothetical, but one would like to understand that after Geelani and his folks receive the Pandits with 'open arms', where shall they go? Geelani, who is leading a faction of the Hurriyat Conference, is in fact denigrating the Pandits' community. The like-minded political leaders, preferring to act as a "devil's advocate," are in support of Geelani's view that the migrants should return only to their 'old houses' and not to Government flats under construction. It is untenable. The Kashmiri Pandits are now a fragmented lot. They have settled in different parts of the country, mostly in Jammu and Delhi. Thousands of them live in shattered tenements and dingy apartments, in unhygienic conditions. If Geelani and his compeers had been honest enough about the return of the Pandits, they should have first condemned militancy in no uncertain terms, and the barbarous acts the community was subjected to before they were hounded out. Geelani and his 'comrades' should have volunteered to reconstruct the burned down houses of the migrants and restored their places of worship to their original shape and not waited thus far. But alas; they were never serious, for the fact that they regarded the Pandits as persona non grata in the valley. Geelani is against the permanent stay of outsiders in the valley, including Biharis, but those who were the permanent settlers were thrown out. The radicals by and large achieved their goal of establishing what is known as "Nizam-e-Mustafa" (Islamic way of life). This concept is against the general will of the majority of the Muslims. They have opted for modernity rather than for Afghanistan-type Talibanisation of the Islamic society. What the Muslim fundamentalists are aiming at is against the concept of secular democracy, adopted by India. The radicals' ideology has not only ruined Kashmiris but the people of Pakistan as well. The Hurriyat leader is shedding crocodile tears that "Kashmir is incomplete without the Hindu Pandit community." The population of Hindus in Kashmir was reduced to just two per cent (from 15 per cent in 1947) before 1990 exodus. Now less than 15,000 to 20,000 Hindus live in the valley. Panun Kashmir Chairman Dr Ajay Chrungoo is averse to Geelani's idea about the return of the Pandits. "By insisting that the migrants should return only to their old homes and intermingle with their old Muslim neighbours, Geelani in fact wants them to ignore their security concerns. He does not want the Pandits to have relationship with the Government or the security forces." Naturally, it could be interpreted to mean that the Kashmiri Hindus should identify themselves with the politics of the radicals, which is uncalled for. Panun Kashmir, an organization representing the Kashmiri Pandits, has demanded to carve out a separate homeland for the Kashmiri Hindus in the valley, within the Indian union. Geelani and other separatist leaders should say peccavi (we have sinned) and apologize to the Pandits before making such overtures. They should abjure violence and realize that separatism is disastrous. Separation of Kashmir from the Indian union is impossible. It simply means disintegration of India as well as Pakistan. It can never happen. The radicals are a curse upon the people of Kashmir. Geelani's mea culpa for supporting and engineering terrorism in the valley will go a long way in the restoration of normalcy in Jammu and Kashmir. What they want to achieve is unachievable, for if Kashmir is unstable, both India and Pakistan will remain so. The fundamentals in the valley have no locus standi to decide about people residing in the other two regions of the Buddhist-dominated Ladakh region and the Hindu-dominated Jammu. Ugly happenings in Kashmir will have an adverse impact in both the countries. The Kashmiri Muslim fundamentalists are holding people in the entire subcontinent at ransom. This is why Pakistan Peoples Party Co-Chairman Asif Ali Zardari wants Kashmir issue to be kept on the backburner, to develop economic relationship between India and Pakistan http://www.asiantribune.com/?q=node/10471 -- Rashneek Kher http://www.nietzschereborn.blogspot.com From patwardhan_gauri at yahoo.com Thu Apr 10 10:36:34 2008 From: patwardhan_gauri at yahoo.com (gouri) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2008 22:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: [People'sResistance] The Establishment Strikes Back Message-ID: <40451.54069.qm@web32403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Note: forwarded message attached. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From radhikarajen at vsnl.net Thu Apr 10 13:28:54 2008 From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net (radhikarajen at vsnl.net) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:58:54 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested aDelhi-basedJournalist In-Reply-To: <595098.41323.qm@web45505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <9BE33FFC-D9CF-44B5-998F-25F4C6F4BE82@sarai.net> <595098.41323.qm@web45505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi, it is not at all surprising when thoughts of dissent are expressed, the method of suppression are time tested and have not found success, first, the step one is to discredit the person and not the thoughts, next step two is holding out threats of "legal" actions, third step, use the brute force, to harass phyisically, mentally by false cases, it is not new as to how legally any dissenter can be cowed down by threats , violent protests. Nation has seen it in emergency days of a autocratic ruler.Now with drug and kickbacks in deals money power is threatening to extinguish the freedom, then centuries ago, one voice which told truth was poisoned, one voice which explained that earth was revolving around the sun had the eyes gauged out. But power of thought is such that if truthful, it remains in the minds of the readers, they like it or not, support it or not, the issue remains. New generations of India have doctored histrory of freedom struggle of India, go with that as their perspective for the learning experience. It is one voice from remote Maharashtra, of Bala gangadhar Thilak, that inspired many others to become BalGangadhars of the struggle. It is one voice of lala Lajpath rai that inspired many to become the lalaLajpath rai. It is one voice of Bipin Chnandra Pal, that inspired many to be the stronger voice for freedom. Ofcourse all the one voices were repressed brutally, killed, but the struggle went on, as the fruits of freedom are now enjoyed, all credit is to one family which had a person who hobnobbed with viceroys, spent his confinement in guest houses, but the family took the surname of Gandhi, to be mother of all sacrifices, wherein reality check, there are thousands who sacrificed their life and livelihood to alll of us to have freedom. Nethaji was not the first who passed ICS exam but refused to serve under british regime, dissent cost him dear. Nehru who had failed the ICS, after enrolling at british Bar Council came back as Barrister, but issue here is was he a visionary that he is projected as for free India. ? The very same left parties which condemned Nethaji as fascist supporter now have with them the Forward Block even though with uncomfortable to share power, so let us not be sensitive to such oppressing threats of "defamation." Basic issue here is again, it is not about religion, or the journalist, was he out on reportage of true facts or was he reporting to his community of milli gazette, or was he reporting to all citizens of the nation. ? Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: we wi Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 6:07 pm Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested aDelhi-basedJournalist To: reader-list at sarai.net > Haha Exhausted Suddhabrata, > > >>For all I care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day > Adventist, a > >>lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire need of > >>therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent) > Santan > >>Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet. > > I contradict over and above with the term "alcoholic Santan > Dharmi"? What do you exactly mean by using that term? I observe > the possible conclusions as > > 1) One should not follow "Sanatan Dharm" at all? > 2) All ALCOHOLICS in INDIA or abroad mystifying the > world as "Sanatan Dharmis"? > 3) Those who are all following "Sanatan Dharm" are > ALCOHOLICS? 4) Those who ever following "Sanatan Dharm" > do belong to > BAJARANGDAL,VHP,BJP,RSS,SHIVSENA? > 5) "Sanatan Dharmis" not at all present in CONGRESS,CPI > and CPM? > > > Possibly the 2nd one is most suitable and correct anyway, > > Please let me know how much can be gained for a defamation as I > am fighting a minor litigation, I am thinking to file a > "defamation" as well. I request you please don't ask a service > charge for this. > > Regards, > Dhatri. > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > Radhikarajen, > > I am curious to know, where in the post by Arshad Amanullah you > have > read that the journalist, Nadim Ahmad, had violated any law? Which > law do you think has been violated? Where (in Arshad's posting) do > you find the evidence of this violation? > > The report forwarded by Arshad mentions the editor of Mr. Ahmad's > newspaper citing conversations with a police officer about the > journalist, his whereabouts and his assignment, and even the > police > officer who is quoted in the forwarded report does not seem to > indicate that the Mr. Ahmad had broken any law. Which leap of > imagination then impels you to make the assumption that he had? > > I find it disgusting that you should assume that the journalist > has > violated any law whatsoever, without any stated proof to that > effect. > All that we can surmise from reading the above mentioned report is > that Mr. Ahmad was doing his job - making enquiries in a > completely > legitimate manner, as journalists are supposed to do. Morover, > nowhere, in the posting that Arshad has forwarded, is there any > reference to Mr. Ahmad's faith, or his relationship to an > organization called SIMI, and yet, I can see that you cannot > resist > the cheap temptation of stating that - (and I am quoting you > directly here) > > - "he is journalist (sic), that does not mean he is above the law, > he > can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor (sic), support and > shield the few fanatics because he is journalist, that is when > conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion is used to > propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now banned > does. > If system of governance arrests a few, who are in subversion of > laws, > planning violent acts in the guise of religion and its freedom, > laws > have to take care of such deviant behaviour in free society." > > Where, in Arshad's posting do you find grounds to believe that the > journalist, "sheltered, supported and shielded" any "fanatics"? Is > it > only on the grounds of his name, and what we can learn about the > possibility of his beliefs, again on the basis of that name. What > can > we learn on the basis of a name. If I take your name for instance, > I > cannot even tell whether you are male or female, whether you are > Hindu, or a person of another faith, or no faith at all, who > happens > to have the Sanskrit names of a hindu deity (Radhika) and the term > for a royal personage, (Rajen) attached to his/her name. For all I > care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day Adventist, a > lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire need of > therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent) > Santan > Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet. Your name > gives > me no real indication whatsoever, actually. And any negative > judgements that I, or anyone esle would make about you, your > motives, > your character, your personality on the basis of your name would > be > totally indefensible. If I had to make judgements, they would have > to > rely on your actions and your statments, not your name. > > Now, let us assume that I was a journalist, trying to investigate > the > detention of the activists of a supposedly 'Hindu' organization > like > the Bajrang Dal. Now let us further assume that I was arrested, in > the course of doing so. Would you, or anyone else, then be taken > seriously, if you or they, made a statement to the effect that I > was > arrested, because I was "sheltering, supporting and shielding" the > activists of the Bajrang Dal (because Shuddhabrata Sengupta > sounds, > in an appropriately deadpan Sanskritic way, like an ostensibly > 'hindu' name, though it actually says next to nothing about my > personal convictions in the matter of religion). > > Such an allegation, if it were not backed by any substantive > proof, > would be patently absurd. Similarly, your implicit allegations > (which > infer connections and convergences of purpose between SIMI > activists > and Nadim Ahmad solely on the grounds of the incidental 0 and > therefore irrelevant - marker of Mr. Ahmad's name), are equally > absurd. > You, sir, or madam, or whatever you may be, are the true fanatic > here. You cannot resist making broad generalizations about other > peoples' character based on nothing other than the sound of their > name. It really shows how narrow the bandwidth of your > intelligence > and your imagination is. > > I think you owe this list an apology, and I suggest that you study > the Indian Penal Code carefully before making flimsy allegations > about being above or below the law. The law can be used quite > effectively against people like you who make baseless and wild > allegations about other people's character and conduct. I suggest > you > take a careful look at section 499 of the Indian Penal Code, it > spells out the law of a crime called defamation. Be careful. > > no regards whatsoever, not to you, not this time, > > Shuddhabrata > > > > > On 08-Apr-08, at 6:21 PM, radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote: > > > Losten my friend, he is journalist, that does not mean he is > above > > the law, he can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor, > > support and shield the few fanatics because he is journalist, > that > > is when conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion > is > > used to propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now > > banned does. If system of governance arrests a few, who are in > > subversion of laws, planning violent acts in the guise of > religion > > and its freedom, laws have to take care of such deviant > behaviour > > in free society. Be it a hindu, muslim or any faith, group of > > individuals who are traitors to the society for the "religion" > are > > not citizens who deserve to be spared as law has to take care of > > such deviant behaviour., irrespective of the system of > governance, > > or the political party that rules the state, why is it that some > > point out such incidents as if system is against the faith, but > not > > against lawless behaviour by "journalist. ? > > > > Regatrds. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: arshad amanullah > > Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 10:42 pm > > Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested a Delhi- > > > basedJournalist > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > > >> www.milligazette.com > >> > >> New Delhi, 7 April 2008: Late last evening the police > >> in the BJP-ruled state of Madhya Pradesh arrested a > >> Delhi-based journalist who had gone there to report on > >> recent arrests in the state. > >> > >> The journalist is Mr Nadim Ahmad, a staffer of The > >> Milli Gazette fortnightly English-language newspaper > >> published from Delhi since 2000. > >> > >> Ahmad was arrested by the police early 6 April evening > >> in village Aroda/Choral under Balwada Police Station, > >> Distt Khargone, Indore Range. Contact with Ahmad was > >> possible until late in the evening on his mobile phone > >> (# 09911334768). However, since this morning he is not > >> picking up his phone while Police Inspector Sunil > >> Visthre (mobile # 09926670086), who took Ahmad in > >> custody, is not responding to calls on his mobile. > >> Enquiries with highest police officials in Indore have > >> failed to help trace the whereabout of the arrested > >> journalist. The Milli Gazette editor, Dr Zafarul-Islam > >> Khan, has written in this matter to Mr Shivraj Patil, > >> the Union Home Minister, MP Governor Mr Balram Jhakar, > >> MP Chief Minister Mr Shivraj Singh Chauhan, MP home > >> minister Mr. Himmat Kothari, as well as to top police > >> officials in MP state. > >> > >> If the journalist remains untraceable, Dr Khan plans > >> to file a habeas corpus suit in the Supreme Court of > >> India tomorrow, 8 April. > >> > >> [end] > >> > >> Issued by The Milli Gazette > >> D-84 Abul Fazal Enclave-I > >> Jamia Nagar, New Delhi 110 025 > >> Tel. (011) 26942883, 26947483, 26952825 > >> Email: edit at milligazette.com > >> Website: www.milligazette.com > >> > >> Following is the text of the letter sent by Dr > >> Zafarul-Islam Khan, Editor, The Milli Gazette, on 7 > >> April 2008 via fax, email and courier to a number of > >> central and MP state authorities: > >> > >> "This is to inform you that we are a registered > >> English-language fortnightly newspaper published > >> regularly since January 2000 (registered RNI number > >> DELENG/2000/930). A few days back we sent Mr Nadim > >> Ahmad, one of our full-time staff reporters, to > >> Sarangpur, Madhya Pradesh, to report on communal > >> violence there. At about same time news of arrests of > >> alleged SIMI members also came from an adjacent area > >> in the state, so I instructed him to go to Indore as > >> well to report on the situation there and to visit > >> some places from where arrests were made. Mr Ahmad > >> reached Indore yesterday, 6 April 2008, and after > >> making enquiries about the location of the concerned > >> areas, went to village Aroda/Choral under Balwada > >> Police Station, Distt Khargone, Indore Range (Thana > >> phone No. 07280-261237) whose in-charge is Town > >> Inspector Mr Sunil Visthre (mobile no. 09926670086). > >> Inspector Visthre spoke to me last night at around 8-9 > >> pm using Mr Ahmad's mobile no. 09911334768 asking why > >> he was in the area. It was explained to him that Mr > >> Ahmad was a full-time staff reporter of this paper and > >> he was there at my instructions to report on the > >> recent arrests. Inspector Visthre told me that there > >> was nothing to worry about and Mr Ahmad is helping > >> enquiries and he is not under arrest. > >> > >> My last contact with Ahmad was at 11.06 pm yesterday > >> (6 April 08) on his mobile phone in which he said he > >> is alright and was answering questions by the police; > >> Inspector Visthre also spoke to me over the same phone > >> at that time and told me that there is nothing to > >> worry about as they were only trying to establish the > >> reason why Mr Nadim was in the area.. Mr Nadim Ahmad's > >> last call was at 1.28 am on 7-4-08 which I could not > >> receive as I had gone to bed by that time. In the > >> morning I tried to contact Mr Ahmad using his mobile > >> number but there was no response. Thereafter, I phoned > >> Balwada Thana at the above phone number and was > >> informed that Inspector Visthre has taken Mr Ahmad to > >> Indore in the morning at 6 AM. Efforts to contact Mr > >> Ahmad since then have failed; Inspector Visthre too is > >> not taking up calls to his mobile. After this, I > >> phoned Indore Superintendent of Police Mr Anshuman > >> Yadav on his mobile no. 09425115144 at 11.30 am (7 > >> April 08). He told me that he had no information about > >> this matter. > >> > >> As of now, my apprehension is that Mr Nadim Ahmad has > >> been arrested and kept under custody at an unknown > >> place for no reason whatsoever as he was only > >> discharging his duties as a journalist to investigate > >> matters of common and media interest. I fear that > >> under the current charged atmosphere in the state of > >> Madhya Pradesh, Mr Ahmad may have been falsely > >> implicated in some matter and illegally deprived of > >> his liberty. I request you to immediately intervene in > >> this matter and ensure the freedom of press guaranteed > >> by our Constitution and laws." > >> _________________________________________ > >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > >> Critiques & Collaborations > >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > >> subscribe in the subject header. > >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > >> list > >> List archive: > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta > The Sarai Programme at CSDS > Raqs Media Collective > shuddha at sarai.net > www.sarai.net > www.raqsmediacollective.net > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: From pkray11 at gmail.com Thu Apr 10 14:29:47 2008 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:29:47 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Cinemela Film Fest Message-ID: <98f331e00804100159t5ad4927fr7f890f1043d27a86@mail.gmail.com> The 3rd edition of CINEMELA FILM FEST 11-14 APRIL SAA AUDITORIUM JNU/New Delhi 11th April 5.30pm Opening Session Inauguration by Prof Parul D Mukherjee Dean, SAA, JNU Keynote Speech: Mr Mukul Sharma Director, Amnesty International India Ashvin Kumar Filmmaker Screening: The Little Terrorist Dir- Ashvin Kumar (widely acclaimed and Oscars nominee) 12, 13 & 14 April 10.30am onwards Short films, documentaries & features Special screening: Raja Harishchandra, the first Indian film by Dadasaheb Phalke 0987331331 cinemela at gmail.com cinemela.blogspot.com All are invited From parthaekka at gmail.com Thu Apr 10 14:30:27 2008 From: parthaekka at gmail.com (Partha Dasgupta) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 14:30:27 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested aDelhi-basedJournalist In-Reply-To: References: <9BE33FFC-D9CF-44B5-998F-25F4C6F4BE82@sarai.net> <595098.41323.qm@web45505.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32144e990804100200y65908d9i5a482d7a528d837f@mail.gmail.com> Hi, That's a very wierd (and I would say irrelevant) question to ask 'who' is the reporter writing the news for. All of us see whatever we do and 'report' it in the hindsight of our personal bias. Whether or not the journalist wrote for the Forward Block or the Milli GHazette or the BJP, he would be putting out a view point based on facts that he has in possession. Your question becomes even more irrelevant looking at the fact that he never reported anything since the Police picked him up before he could. However, that still doesn't answer the question of how you presumed he had violated the law since the Police apparently called only to confirm that he was a reporter. Rgds, Partha ..................... On Thu, Apr 10, 2008 at 1:28 PM, wrote: > Hi, > > it is not at all surprising when thoughts of dissent are expressed, the > method of suppression are time tested and have not found success, first, the > step one is to discredit the person and not the thoughts, next step two is > holding out threats of "legal" actions, third step, use the brute force, to > harass phyisically, mentally by false cases, it is not new as to how legally > any dissenter can be cowed down by threats , violent protests. > Nation has seen it in emergency days of a autocratic ruler.Now with drug > and kickbacks in deals money power is threatening to extinguish the freedom, > then centuries ago, one voice which told truth was poisoned, one voice which > explained that earth was revolving around the sun had the eyes gauged out. > But power of thought is such that if truthful, it remains in the minds > of the readers, they like it or not, support it or not, the issue remains. > > New generations of India have doctored histrory of freedom struggle of > India, go with that as their perspective for the learning experience. It is > one voice from remote Maharashtra, of Bala gangadhar Thilak, that inspired > many others to become BalGangadhars of the struggle. It is one voice of lala > Lajpath rai that inspired many to become the lalaLajpath rai. It is one > voice of Bipin Chnandra Pal, that inspired many to be the stronger voice for > freedom. Ofcourse all the one voices were repressed brutally, killed, but > the struggle went on, as the fruits of freedom are now enjoyed, all credit > is to one family which had a person who hobnobbed with viceroys, spent his > confinement in guest houses, but the family took the surname of Gandhi, to > be mother of all sacrifices, wherein reality check, there are thousands who > sacrificed their life and livelihood to alll of us to have freedom. > Nethaji was not the first who passed ICS exam but refused to serve under > british regime, dissent cost him dear. Nehru who had failed the ICS, after > enrolling at british Bar Council came back as Barrister, but issue here is > was he a visionary that he is projected as for free India. ? > The very same left parties which condemned Nethaji as fascist supporter > now have with them the Forward Block even though with uncomfortable to share > power, so let us not be sensitive to such oppressing threats of > "defamation." > Basic issue here is again, it is not about religion, or the journalist, > was he out on reportage of true facts or was he reporting to his community > of milli gazette, or was he reporting to all citizens of the nation. ? > > Regards. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: we wi > Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 6:07 pm > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested > aDelhi-basedJournalist > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > > Haha Exhausted Suddhabrata, > > > > >>For all I care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day > > Adventist, a > > >>lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire need of > > >>therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent) > > Santan > > >>Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet. > > > > I contradict over and above with the term "alcoholic Santan > > Dharmi"? What do you exactly mean by using that term? I observe > > the possible conclusions as > > > > 1) One should not follow "Sanatan Dharm" at all? > > 2) All ALCOHOLICS in INDIA or abroad mystifying the > > world as "Sanatan Dharmis"? > > 3) Those who are all following "Sanatan Dharm" are > > ALCOHOLICS? 4) Those who ever following "Sanatan Dharm" > > do belong to > > BAJARANGDAL,VHP,BJP,RSS,SHIVSENA? > > 5) "Sanatan Dharmis" not at all present in CONGRESS,CPI > > and CPM? > > > > > > Possibly the 2nd one is most suitable and correct anyway, > > > > Please let me know how much can be gained for a defamation as I > > am fighting a minor litigation, I am thinking to file a > > "defamation" as well. I request you please don't ask a service > > charge for this. > > > > Regards, > > Dhatri. > > > > Shuddhabrata Sengupta wrote: > > Radhikarajen, > > > > I am curious to know, where in the post by Arshad Amanullah you > > have > > read that the journalist, Nadim Ahmad, had violated any law? Which > > law do you think has been violated? Where (in Arshad's posting) do > > you find the evidence of this violation? > > > > The report forwarded by Arshad mentions the editor of Mr. Ahmad's > > newspaper citing conversations with a police officer about the > > journalist, his whereabouts and his assignment, and even the > > police > > officer who is quoted in the forwarded report does not seem to > > indicate that the Mr. Ahmad had broken any law. Which leap of > > imagination then impels you to make the assumption that he had? > > > > I find it disgusting that you should assume that the journalist > > has > > violated any law whatsoever, without any stated proof to that > > effect. > > All that we can surmise from reading the above mentioned report is > > that Mr. Ahmad was doing his job - making enquiries in a > > completely > > legitimate manner, as journalists are supposed to do. Morover, > > nowhere, in the posting that Arshad has forwarded, is there any > > reference to Mr. Ahmad's faith, or his relationship to an > > organization called SIMI, and yet, I can see that you cannot > > resist > > the cheap temptation of stating that - (and I am quoting you > > directly here) > > > > - "he is journalist (sic), that does not mean he is above the law, > > he > > can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor (sic), support and > > shield the few fanatics because he is journalist, that is when > > conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion is used to > > propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now banned > > does. > > If system of governance arrests a few, who are in subversion of > > laws, > > planning violent acts in the guise of religion and its freedom, > > laws > > have to take care of such deviant behaviour in free society." > > > > Where, in Arshad's posting do you find grounds to believe that the > > journalist, "sheltered, supported and shielded" any "fanatics"? Is > > it > > only on the grounds of his name, and what we can learn about the > > possibility of his beliefs, again on the basis of that name. What > > can > > we learn on the basis of a name. If I take your name for instance, > > I > > cannot even tell whether you are male or female, whether you are > > Hindu, or a person of another faith, or no faith at all, who > > happens > > to have the Sanskrit names of a hindu deity (Radhika) and the term > > for a royal personage, (Rajen) attached to his/her name. For all I > > care, you could be a Brahmo Samajist, a Seventh Day Adventist, a > > lapsed Roman Catholic, a de-sexed pagan cyobrg in dire need of > > therapy or a born-again, paranoiac, alcoholic (or abstinent) > > Santan > > Dharmi who spends way too much time on the internet. Your name > > gives > > me no real indication whatsoever, actually. And any negative > > judgements that I, or anyone esle would make about you, your > > motives, > > your character, your personality on the basis of your name would > > be > > totally indefensible. If I had to make judgements, they would have > > to > > rely on your actions and your statments, not your name. > > > > Now, let us assume that I was a journalist, trying to investigate > > the > > detention of the activists of a supposedly 'Hindu' organization > > like > > the Bajrang Dal. Now let us further assume that I was arrested, in > > the course of doing so. Would you, or anyone else, then be taken > > seriously, if you or they, made a statement to the effect that I > > was > > arrested, because I was "sheltering, supporting and shielding" the > > activists of the Bajrang Dal (because Shuddhabrata Sengupta > > sounds, > > in an appropriately deadpan Sanskritic way, like an ostensibly > > 'hindu' name, though it actually says next to nothing about my > > personal convictions in the matter of religion). > > > > Such an allegation, if it were not backed by any substantive > > proof, > > would be patently absurd. Similarly, your implicit allegations > > (which > > infer connections and convergences of purpose between SIMI > > activists > > and Nadim Ahmad solely on the grounds of the incidental 0 and > > therefore irrelevant - marker of Mr. Ahmad's name), are equally > > absurd. > > You, sir, or madam, or whatever you may be, are the true fanatic > > here. You cannot resist making broad generalizations about other > > peoples' character based on nothing other than the sound of their > > name. It really shows how narrow the bandwidth of your > > intelligence > > and your imagination is. > > > > I think you owe this list an apology, and I suggest that you study > > the Indian Penal Code carefully before making flimsy allegations > > about being above or below the law. The law can be used quite > > effectively against people like you who make baseless and wild > > allegations about other people's character and conduct. I suggest > > you > > take a careful look at section 499 of the Indian Penal Code, it > > spells out the law of a crime called defamation. Be careful. > > > > no regards whatsoever, not to you, not this time, > > > > Shuddhabrata > > > > > > > > > > On 08-Apr-08, at 6:21 PM, radhikarajen at vsnl.net wrote: > > > > > Losten my friend, he is journalist, that does not mean he is > > above > > > the law, he can do anything to go anywhere and even sheltor, > > > support and shield the few fanatics because he is journalist, > > that > > > is when conflict of interest comes in free India, when religion > > is > > > used to propagate hatred, to foist violence, like the SIMI now > > > banned does. If system of governance arrests a few, who are in > > > subversion of laws, planning violent acts in the guise of > > religion > > > and its freedom, laws have to take care of such deviant > > behaviour > > > in free society. Be it a hindu, muslim or any faith, group of > > > individuals who are traitors to the society for the "religion" > > are > > > not citizens who deserve to be spared as law has to take care of > > > such deviant behaviour., irrespective of the system of > > governance, > > > or the political party that rules the state, why is it that some > > > point out such incidents as if system is against the faith, but > > not > > > against lawless behaviour by "journalist. ? > > > > > > Regatrds. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: arshad amanullah > > > Date: Monday, April 7, 2008 10:42 pm > > > Subject: [Reader-list] BJP-ruled Madhya Pradesh arrested a Delhi- > > > > > basedJournalist > > > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > > > > >> www.milligazette.com > > >> > > >> New Delhi, 7 April 2008: Late last evening the police > > >> in the BJP-ruled state of Madhya Pradesh arrested a > > >> Delhi-based journalist who had gone there to report on > > >> recent arrests in the state. > > >> > > >> The journalist is Mr Nadim Ahmad, a staffer of The > > >> Milli Gazette fortnightly English-language newspaper > > >> published from Delhi since 2000. > > >> > > >> Ahmad was arrested by the police early 6 April evening > > >> in village Aroda/Choral under Balwada Police Station, > > >> Distt Khargone, Indore Range. Contact with Ahmad was > > >> possible until late in the evening on his mobile phone > > >> (# 09911334768). However, since this morning he is not > > >> picking up his phone while Police Inspector Sunil > > >> Visthre (mobile # 09926670086), who took Ahmad in > > >> custody, is not responding to calls on his mobile. > > >> Enquiries with highest police officials in Indore have > > >> failed to help trace the whereabout of the arrested > > >> journalist. The Milli Gazette editor, Dr Zafarul-Islam > > >> Khan, has written in this matter to Mr Shivraj Patil, > > >> the Union Home Minister, MP Governor Mr Balram Jhakar, > > >> MP Chief Minister Mr Shivraj Singh Chauhan, MP home > > >>