From elkamath at yahoo.com Fri Feb 1 09:24:35 2008 From: elkamath at yahoo.com (lalitha kamath) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:54:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: REMINDER: Migrant/Media/Metropolis: New Labour Struggles in the global city Message-ID: <580774.22799.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> FYI > Migrant / Media / Metropolis > New labour struggles in the global city > Saturday February 2nd, Amsterdam (Program Below) > > Migration and media-activists gather with theorists and labour > organizers to discuss and share best practices in the fight against > precarity and insecure labour conditions. Sharing inspiring examples of > social justice unionism and creative campaigning like "Justice for > Janitors" in the U.S. and "Cleaners For a Better Future" in the > Netherlands. The aim is to challenge traditional labour practices, > syndicate and inspire a sharper network of social activists, academics, > media makers and artists to join contemporary urban labour struggles and > confederate into a globalization from below. > > With: Enrica Rigo (migration researcher); Marcel van der Linden (Labour > Historian) Zoe Romano (Chainworkers); Nico Sguiglia (Oficinas Sociales), > Massimo De Angelis (the Commoner), Dagmar Diesner (No Borders London), > Seoren Kohler (Multitude), Hagen Kopp (migration activist), preceded by > the book launch of Urban Politics Now! (NAi, 2007). > > Date | Saturday February 2 > > Time | 13.00 - 18.30 hrs. > > Language | English > > Live webcast | www.debalie.nl/live > > Organised in collaboration with Flexmens / Coalition For a Better Future / > FNV Bongenoten > > ========== > > Programme: > > 13:00-13:45 preprogramme – book launch: Urban Politics Now! Reimagining > democracy in the Neoliberal City. With participation from BAVO, Henk van > Houtum en Merijn Oudenampsen. > > 14:00 – 15:30 Start main programme > > panel #1 "Towards a Globalisation from Below" > Facilator: Valery Alzaga (Justice for Janitors – Global Campaign) > > -Massimo De Angelis, Beginning of History: global capital, global value > struggle > -Enrica Rigo, Contested Migrant Citizenship in Europe > -Marcel van der Linden, Organizing and New Labour Internationalism > -Hagen Kopp, Forging a Transnational chain of migration-activism > > Globalization has brought us an increasingly integrated global circuit > of large corporations and financial conglomerates, which have > concentrated power in fewer and fewer hands. On the other side, we can > find an emerging globalization from below, that of migrants, labour > struggles and social activists, claiming space and redistributing wealth. > > 15:30-16:00 Break with possibility of sandwich and conspiring. > > 16:00- 17:15 > panel #2 "Syndicalism 2.0" > > -Dutch Cleaners Campaign (Juliano Vieira & Herrie Hoogenboom,organizer FNV > Bongenoten) > -Migrant labour struggles in South Spain (Nico Scuglia, Indymedia > Estrecho) > -Filipino Migrant Domestic Workers Union (Fe Jusay - CFMW & Katrien > Depuydt - Abvakabo) > -German Retail Strike (Franziska Bruder, Verdi) > > Examples of campaigns that have brought inspiration and innovation back > to labour, revolving around organizing and social movement unionism, > building community, going back to the base and out of the office. > > 17:15-18:30 > panel #3 "No Longer Invisible: Labour & Media" > -Zoe Romano (Chainworkers Milano), interventions of a bio syndicate > -Merijn Oudenampsen (Betere Toekomst), Mediawork in Dutch Cleaners > Campaign > -Soeren Kohler (Multitude e.V) : Media-activism and worker participation > at German Retail strike > -Dagmar Diesner (NoBorders London), Screening Underground Londoners > > Media-activism has provided a vital ingredient to new campaigns, to > visibilize what normally remains hidden from view. Media-activists > showcase their work, and discuss issues of participation and > representation. > Cross-posted frm DEBATE list ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ From aman.am at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 11:26:56 2008 From: aman.am at gmail.com (Aman Sethi) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 11:26:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: REMINDER: Migrant/Media/Metropolis: New Labour Struggles in the global city In-Reply-To: <580774.22799.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <580774.22799.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <995a19920801312156y7cfef3c1wb8e9e43b29579e56@mail.gmail.com> "Hagen Kopp (migration activist)" I ask this question in all innocence. What is a migration activist? best a. On Feb 1, 2008 9:24 AM, lalitha kamath wrote: > > > FYI > > > > Migrant / Media / Metropolis > > New labour struggles in the global city > > Saturday February 2nd, Amsterdam (Program Below) > > > > > Migration and media-activists gather with theorists and labour > > organizers to discuss and share best practices in the fight against > > precarity and insecure labour conditions. Sharing inspiring examples of > > > social justice unionism and creative campaigning like "Justice for > > Janitors" in the U.S. and "Cleaners For a Better Future" in the > > Netherlands. The aim is to challenge traditional labour practices, > > > syndicate and inspire a sharper network of social activists, academics, > > media makers and artists to join contemporary urban labour struggles and > > confederate into a globalization from below. > > > > > With: Enrica Rigo (migration researcher); Marcel van der Linden (Labour > > Historian) Zoe Romano (Chainworkers); Nico Sguiglia (Oficinas Sociales), > > Massimo De Angelis (the Commoner), Dagmar Diesner (No Borders London), > > > Seoren Kohler (Multitude), , preceded by > > the book launch of Urban Politics Now! (NAi, 2007). > > > > Date | Saturday February 2 > > > > Time | 13.00 - 18.30 hrs. > > > > > Language | English > > > > Live webcast | www.debalie.nl/live > > > > Organised in collaboration with Flexmens / Coalition For a Better Future / > > > FNV Bongenoten > > > > ========== > > > > Programme: > > > > 13:00-13:45 preprogramme – book launch: Urban Politics Now! Reimagining > > democracy in the Neoliberal City. With participation from BAVO, Henk van > > > Houtum en Merijn Oudenampsen. > > > > 14:00 – 15:30 Start main programme > > > > panel #1 "Towards a Globalisation from Below" > > Facilator: Valery Alzaga (Justice for Janitors – Global Campaign) > > > > > -Massimo De Angelis, Beginning of History: global capital, global value > > struggle > > -Enrica Rigo, Contested Migrant Citizenship in Europe > > -Marcel van der Linden, Organizing and New Labour Internationalism > > > -Hagen Kopp, Forging a Transnational chain of migration-activism > > > > Globalization has brought us an increasingly integrated global circuit > > of large corporations and financial conglomerates, which have > > > concentrated power in fewer and fewer hands. On the other side, we can > > find an emerging globalization from below, that of migrants, labour > > struggles and social activists, claiming space and redistributing wealth. > > > > > 15:30-16:00 Break with possibility of sandwich and conspiring. > > > > 16:00- 17:15 > > panel #2 "Syndicalism 2.0" > > > > -Dutch Cleaners Campaign (Juliano Vieira & Herrie Hoogenboom,organizer FNV > > > Bongenoten) > > -Migrant labour struggles in South Spain (Nico Scuglia, Indymedia > > Estrecho) > > -Filipino Migrant Domestic Workers Union (Fe Jusay - CFMW & Katrien > > Depuydt - Abvakabo) > > -German Retail Strike (Franziska Bruder, Verdi) > > > > > Examples of campaigns that have brought inspiration and innovation back > > to labour, revolving around organizing and social movement unionism, > > building community, going back to the base and out of the office. > > > > > 17:15-18:30 > > panel #3 "No Longer Invisible: Labour & Media" > > -Zoe Romano (Chainworkers Milano), interventions of a bio syndicate > > -Merijn Oudenampsen (Betere Toekomst), Mediawork in Dutch Cleaners > > > Campaign > > -Soeren Kohler (Multitude e.V) : Media-activism and worker participation > > at German Retail strike > > -Dagmar Diesner (NoBorders London), Screening Underground Londoners > > > > Media-activism has provided a vital ingredient to new campaigns, to > > > visibilize what normally remains hidden from view. Media-activists > > showcase their work, and discuss issues of participation and > > representation. > > > > Cross-posted frm DEBATE list > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Fri Feb 1 16:28:16 2008 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 02:58:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] 17,060 farm suicides in one year Message-ID: <12893.54143.qm@web51409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> 17,060 farm suicides in one year P. Sainath Uptrends in major States unchanged Mumbai: Farm suicides in Maharashtra rose dramatically in 2006, more than in any other part of the country. The State saw 4,453 farmers’ suicides that year, over a quarter of the all-India total of 17,060, according to the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) in its report Accidental Deaths and Suicides in India, 2006. That is the worst figure recorded ‘in any year for any State’ since the NCRB first began logging farm suicides. The previous worst — 4,147 in 2004 — was also in Maharashtra. It has seen ‘36,428 farmers’ suicides’ since 1995, ‘in official count.’ ‘2006 is the latest year for which data are available.’ The suicides in Maharashtra mark an increase of 527 over the 2005 figure. This was four and a half times bigger than that in Andhra Pradesh, the next worst-hit State, which saw a rise of 117 farm suicides over 2005. It was also more than twice the increase of 198 in Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh taken together. Worse, it means farmers accounted for half ‘the increase’ in all suicides in Maharashtra in 2006. Significantly, Maharashtra’s upward spike occurred in the year when the relief packages of both the Prime Minister and Chief Minister — worth Rs. 4,825 crore in all — were being implemented in the Vidharbha region, where suicides have been most intense. The NCRB figures show an unrelenting uptrend in what can be termed the ‘SEZ’ or (Farmers) ‘Special Elimination Zone’ States. These States, which account for nearly two-thirds of all farm suicides in the country, include Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka and Madhya Pradesh (including Chhattisgarh). As a group, the ‘SEZ’ States saw an increase of 6.2 per cent in such deaths. Among them, Maharashtra (4,453), Andhra Pradesh (2,607) and Madhya Pradesh-Chhattisgarh (2,858) show a sharp upward spike. Karnataka (1,720) reports a decline. So though the all-India numbers for 2006 reflect a very small decline of 61 over the 2005 figure of 17,131, the broad trends of the last decade continue. And the trend of rapidly rising farm suicides, particularly post-2001 in the ‘SEZ’ States, remains unchanged. So the minuscule decline in the figure for the country as a whole marks no break from the dismal decade-long trend. NCRB data record 1,66,304 farmers’ suicides in a decade since 1997. Of these, 78,737 occurred between 1997 and 2001. The next five years — from 2002 to 2006 — proved worse, seeing 87,567 farmers take their own lives. This means that on average, there has been one farmer’s suicide every 30 minutes since 2002. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping From radhikarajen at vsnl.net Fri Feb 1 17:14:34 2008 From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net (radhikarajen at vsnl.net) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:44:34 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] 17,060 farm suicides in one year In-Reply-To: <12893.54143.qm@web51409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <12893.54143.qm@web51409.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: True, and unfortunate, as the Prime minister of the nation announces the packages for the farmers, that too, 3000 crores, to be siphoned off by sycophants with the supplies of farm equipments of under quality material what else can be expected. ? With trip to Arunachal after visit to China, this lame duck PM has neither the guts nor the authority or the political will to be of any good governing figure for India, talking of 9 or 10 prcent growth in terms of kickbacks. Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: Yousuf Date: Friday, February 1, 2008 4:30 pm Subject: [Reader-list] 17,060 farm suicides in one year To: sarai sarai > 17,060 farm suicides in one year > > P. Sainath > > Uptrends in major States unchanged > > Mumbai: Farm suicides in Maharashtra rose dramatically > in 2006, more than in any other part of the country. > The State saw 4,453 farmers’ suicides that year, over > a quarter of the all-India total of 17,060, according > to the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) in its > report Accidental Deaths and Suicides in India, 2006. > That is the worst figure recorded ‘in any year for any > State’ since the NCRB first began logging farm > suicides. > > The previous worst — 4,147 in 2004 — was also in > Maharashtra. It has seen ‘36,428 farmers’ suicides’ > since 1995, ‘in official count.’ ‘2006 is the latest > year for which data are available.’ > > The suicides in Maharashtra mark an increase of 527 > over the 2005 figure. This was four and a half times > bigger than that in Andhra Pradesh, the next worst-hit > State, which saw a rise of 117 farm suicides over > 2005. > > It was also more than twice the increase of 198 in > Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh taken together. > > Worse, it means farmers accounted for half ‘the > increase’ in all suicides in Maharashtra in 2006. > > Significantly, Maharashtra’s upward spike occurred in > the year when the relief packages of both the Prime > Minister and Chief Minister — worth Rs. 4,825 crore in > all — were being implemented in the Vidharbha region, > where suicides have been most intense. > > The NCRB figures show an unrelenting uptrend in what > can be termed the ‘SEZ’ or (Farmers) ‘Special > Elimination Zone’ States. These States, which account > for nearly two-thirds of all farm suicides in the > country, include Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, > Karnataka and Madhya Pradesh (including Chhattisgarh). > > > As a group, the ‘SEZ’ States saw an increase of 6.2 > per cent in such deaths. > > Among them, Maharashtra (4,453), Andhra Pradesh > (2,607) and Madhya Pradesh-Chhattisgarh (2,858) show a > sharp upward spike. > > Karnataka (1,720) reports a decline. So though the > all-India numbers for 2006 reflect a very small > decline of 61 over the 2005 figure of 17,131, the > broad trends of the last decade continue. And the > trend of rapidly rising farm suicides, particularly > post-2001 in the ‘SEZ’ States, remains unchanged. > > So the minuscule decline in the figure for the country > as a whole marks no break from the dismal decade-long > trend. > > NCRB data record 1,66,304 farmers’ suicides in a > decade since 1997. > > Of these, 78,737 occurred between 1997 and 2001. The > next five years — from 2002 to 2006 — proved worse, > seeing 87,567 farmers take their own lives. > > This means that on average, there has been one > farmer’s suicide every 30 minutes since 2002. > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping_________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: From radhikarajen at vsnl.net Fri Feb 1 17:26:08 2008 From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net (radhikarajen at vsnl.net) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:56:08 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Fw: REMINDER: Migrant/Media/Metropolis: New LabourStruggles in the global city In-Reply-To: <995a19920801312156y7cfef3c1wb8e9e43b29579e56@mail.gmail.com> References: <580774.22799.qm@web53608.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <995a19920801312156y7cfef3c1wb8e9e43b29579e56@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Well have any of us observed when following incidents take place.-- ? 1. Sewerage lines are clogged, the sewerage board has no staff ,ask the contractor to clean up the clogged lines. The person who gets into sewerage line smells of cheap IMFL, but unhesitatingly takes bamboo sticks long ones, dips himself in the filth , cleans the clogged lines, comes out, there is hardly a bucket of water for him to clean himself of the filthy sewrage, but again drowns his smell of filth in country arrack, gets as less as a dollar for a days work, Rs,50/- for all the filth and cleaning of the clogged drain. 2. garment factories have enough jobs for the female workers on contract basis, but working conditions are simply horrible, to add insult to injury, the sexual abuses is also have to be tolereated, for a meagre sum of Rs.50/- for ten hours of hard work. 3. Workers in unorganised sector and also in organised sector, where they have their union, but the top office bearers are not workers but foisted on them by comrade leaders, who live on the subscription of the comrade workers, have the silence to suffer when management uses all methods of greed to appease the comrade leaders. May be these are the migratory workers who migrate for better working conditions/ salaries.? ----- Original Message ----- From: Aman Sethi Date: Friday, February 1, 2008 11:29 am Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Fw: REMINDER: Migrant/Media/Metropolis: New LabourStruggles in the global city To: reader-list at sarai.net > "Hagen Kopp (migration activist)" > I ask this question in all innocence. What is a migration activist? > best > a. > > On Feb 1, 2008 9:24 AM, lalitha kamath wrote: > > > > > > FYI > > > > > > > Migrant / Media / Metropolis > > > New labour struggles in the global city > > > Saturday February 2nd, Amsterdam (Program Below) > > > > > > > > Migration and media-activists gather with theorists and labour > > > organizers to discuss and share best practices in the fight > against> > precarity and insecure labour conditions. Sharing > inspiring examples of > > > > > social justice unionism and creative campaigning like "Justice for > > > Janitors" in the U.S. and "Cleaners For a Better Future" in the > > > Netherlands. The aim is to challenge traditional labour practices, > > > > > syndicate and inspire a sharper network of social activists, > academics,> > media makers and artists to join contemporary urban > labour struggles and > > > confederate into a globalization from below. > > > > > > > > With: Enrica Rigo (migration researcher); Marcel van der > Linden (Labour > > > Historian) Zoe Romano (Chainworkers); Nico Sguiglia (Oficinas > Sociales),> > Massimo De Angelis (the Commoner), Dagmar Diesner > (No Borders London), > > > > > Seoren Kohler (Multitude), , preceded by > > > the book launch of Urban Politics Now! (NAi, 2007). > > > > > > Date | Saturday February 2 > > > > > > Time | 13.00 - 18.30 hrs. > > > > > > > > Language | English > > > > > > Live webcast | www.debalie.nl/live > > > > > > Organised in collaboration with Flexmens / Coalition For a > Better Future / > > > > > FNV Bongenoten > > > > > > ========== > > > > > > Programme: > > > > > > 13:00-13:45 preprogramme – book launch: Urban Politics Now! > Reimagining> > democracy in the Neoliberal City. With > participation from BAVO, Henk van > > > > > Houtum en Merijn Oudenampsen. > > > > > > 14:00 – 15:30 Start main programme > > > > > > panel #1 "Towards a Globalisation from Below" > > > Facilator: Valery Alzaga (Justice for Janitors – Global Campaign) > > > > > > > > -Massimo De Angelis, Beginning of History: global capital, > global value > > > struggle > > > -Enrica Rigo, Contested Migrant Citizenship in Europe > > > -Marcel van der Linden, Organizing and New Labour Internationalism > > > > > -Hagen Kopp, Forging a Transnational chain of migration-activism > > > > > > Globalization has brought us an increasingly integrated global > circuit> > of large corporations and financial conglomerates, > which have > > > > > concentrated power in fewer and fewer hands. On the other > side, we can > > > find an emerging globalization from below, that of migrants, > labour> > struggles and social activists, claiming space and > redistributing wealth. > > > > > > > > 15:30-16:00 Break with possibility of sandwich and conspiring. > > > > > > 16:00- 17:15 > > > panel #2 "Syndicalism 2.0" > > > > > > -Dutch Cleaners Campaign (Juliano Vieira & Herrie > Hoogenboom,organizer FNV > > > > > Bongenoten) > > > -Migrant labour struggles in South Spain (Nico Scuglia, Indymedia > > > Estrecho) > > > -Filipino Migrant Domestic Workers Union (Fe Jusay - CFMW & > Katrien> > Depuydt - Abvakabo) > > > -German Retail Strike (Franziska Bruder, Verdi) > > > > > > > > Examples of campaigns that have brought inspiration and > innovation back > > > to labour, revolving around organizing and social movement > unionism,> > building community, going back to the base and out of > the office. > > > > > > > > 17:15-18:30 > > > panel #3 "No Longer Invisible: Labour & Media" > > > -Zoe Romano (Chainworkers Milano), interventions of a bio > syndicate> > -Merijn Oudenampsen (Betere Toekomst), Mediawork in > Dutch Cleaners > > > > > Campaign > > > -Soeren Kohler (Multitude e.V) : Media-activism and worker > participation> > at German Retail strike > > > -Dagmar Diesner (NoBorders London), Screening Underground > Londoners> > > > > Media-activism has provided a vital ingredient to new > campaigns, to > > > > > visibilize what normally remains hidden from view. Media-activists > > > showcase their work, and discuss issues of participation and > > > representation. > > > > > > > Cross-posted frm DEBATE list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________> Be a better friend, newshound, and > > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ> > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open > discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net > with subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: From radhikarajen at vsnl.net Fri Feb 1 17:33:00 2008 From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net (radhikarajen at vsnl.net) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 17:03:00 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] The devil in the White House kills a million in IRAQ In-Reply-To: <98f331e00801310719o18c19d85i4b80f55b6374f917@mail.gmail.com> References: <98f331e00801310719o18c19d85i4b80f55b6374f917@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Human greed to dominate in the guise of idealogy or religion and utter disregard of ethics and morals in life for the greed of material wealth has seen many devils in action. Buddhadeb battacharjee has also contributed his might to reduce the population of his voters. ! If american leader wants to control oil facilities, it is Buddha who wants to favour his indusrtial tycoons that have indulged in the activities to be devil in writers building, Biman bose has the credentials to be shakuni mama. ! ----- Original Message ----- From: prakash ray Date: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:52 pm Subject: [Reader-list] The devil in the White House kills a million in IRAQ To: reader-list at sarai.net > Accordig to a joint study by a London based agency Opinion > Research Business > (ORB) and an Iraqi agency Independent Institute for Administration > and Civil > Society Studies (IIACSS), more than ONE MILLION Iraqis had lost > their lives > as a result of violence between March 2003 and August 2007. > > This study was published on Wednesday and widely reported in leading > newspapers across the globe. > > In a report of the US (in July last year), the population of Iraq was > estimated around 27 MILLION. > > The capital city of Iraq, Baghdad, has witnessed maximum > casualities where > more than 40 PERCENT FAMILIES HAD LOST ONE MEMBER. > > > > Prakash > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: From amitabh at sarai.net Fri Feb 1 17:47:54 2008 From: amitabh at sarai.net (Amitabh Kumar) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 17:47:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Why Not Comcs..?? A Panel Discussion on the Art, Economics and the Future of the Comic Book Culture of India Message-ID: Why Not Comics? A Panel Discussion on the Art, Economics and the Future of the Comic Book Culture of India Comics in India has a history that extends a little more than 40 years, but it is only now that we are witnessing a rise in public interest towards them, with publishing houses taking the form in its modern renditions more seriously, and more readers turning into creators. In this scenario, it is imperative for a platform to exist through which a new understanding about comics might emerge. Sarai-CSDS, The French Embassy and the FIRC (French Information Resource Center) invite you to an evening celebrating the comic book culture in New Delhi, as well as the culmination of a nine-day workshop on comic books and graphic novels. Jointly produced by the YP foundation (The Youth Parliament), the event will include a first-of-its-kind dialogue between comic book artists and publishers. Join us in trying to understand the economics and the art of comics in India and be witness to a dialogue that will give you a sense of what the future holds! Discussants include : Orijit Sen, Comic Book Author Sarnath Banerjee, Comic Book Author Vishwajyoti Ghosh, Comic Book Artist/Practitioner Diya Kar-Hazra, Commissioning Editor, Penguin India V.K. Karthika, Publisher & Chief Editor, Harper Collins India Sanjay Gupta/ Kshitsh Padhy , Raj Comics Amitabh Kumar, Comic Book Researcher & Practitioner, Sarai Marielle Morin, Director FIRC & Books Attachée French Embassy Suddhabrata Sengupta, Co-Founder Sarai & Member of Raqs Media Collective 5 February, 2008 at 5.30 pm. 18th New Delhi World Book Fair Hall No. 6, Conference Room No.1 Mezzanine Floor Pragati Maidan, New Delhi The Sarai-FIRC comic book workshop has been conceived as one of the new projects undertaken by the Sarai – FIRC collaboration that brings together a fresh crop of practitioners and readers, thus playing a critical role in the emergence of a new sensibility regarding forms of print production in India. This is part of a larger collaboration of Sarai-CSDS and FIRC to promote comic books. The first series of events under this collaboration were the comic book readings where readers/practitioners are invited to talk about comic books (both old and recently published). Both Sarai and the FIRC had conducted comic book workshops independently in the years 2006-2007 and had felt the need to draw out a programme that could provide a space where newer practitioners could enter the fold as well as existing practitioners find ways to extend and deepen their engagement with the form. This understanding yielded to a common ground that gave birth to a collaboration dedicated to the production of a thriving comic book culture in India. From amitabh at sarai.net Fri Feb 1 17:47:54 2008 From: amitabh at sarai.net (Amitabh Kumar) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 17:47:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Why Not Comcs..?? A Panel Discussion on the Art, Economics and the Future of the Comic Book Culture of India Message-ID: Why Not Comics? A Panel Discussion on the Art, Economics and the Future of the Comic Book Culture of India Comics in India has a history that extends a little more than 40 years, but it is only now that we are witnessing a rise in public interest towards them, with publishing houses taking the form in its modern renditions more seriously, and more readers turning into creators. In this scenario, it is imperative for a platform to exist through which a new understanding about comics might emerge. Sarai-CSDS, The French Embassy and the FIRC (French Information Resource Center) invite you to an evening celebrating the comic book culture in New Delhi, as well as the culmination of a nine-day workshop on comic books and graphic novels. Jointly produced by the YP foundation (The Youth Parliament), the event will include a first-of-its-kind dialogue between comic book artists and publishers. Join us in trying to understand the economics and the art of comics in India and be witness to a dialogue that will give you a sense of what the future holds! Discussants include : Orijit Sen, Comic Book Author Sarnath Banerjee, Comic Book Author Vishwajyoti Ghosh, Comic Book Artist/Practitioner Diya Kar-Hazra, Commissioning Editor, Penguin India V.K. Karthika, Publisher & Chief Editor, Harper Collins India Sanjay Gupta/ Kshitsh Padhy , Raj Comics Amitabh Kumar, Comic Book Researcher & Practitioner, Sarai Marielle Morin, Director FIRC & Books Attachée French Embassy Suddhabrata Sengupta, Co-Founder Sarai & Member of Raqs Media Collective 5 February, 2008 at 5.30 pm. 18th New Delhi World Book Fair Hall No. 6, Conference Room No.1 Mezzanine Floor Pragati Maidan, New Delhi The Sarai-FIRC comic book workshop has been conceived as one of the new projects undertaken by the Sarai – FIRC collaboration that brings together a fresh crop of practitioners and readers, thus playing a critical role in the emergence of a new sensibility regarding forms of print production in India. This is part of a larger collaboration of Sarai-CSDS and FIRC to promote comic books. The first series of events under this collaboration were the comic book readings where readers/practitioners are invited to talk about comic books (both old and recently published). Both Sarai and the FIRC had conducted comic book workshops independently in the years 2006-2007 and had felt the need to draw out a programme that could provide a space where newer practitioners could enter the fold as well as existing practitioners find ways to extend and deepen their engagement with the form. This understanding yielded to a common ground that gave birth to a collaboration dedicated to the production of a thriving comic book culture in India. _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From asitredsalute at gmail.com Fri Feb 1 18:58:06 2008 From: asitredsalute at gmail.com (Asit asitreds) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 08:28:06 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] The devil in the White House kills a million in IRAQ In-Reply-To: References: <98f331e00801310719o18c19d85i4b80f55b6374f917@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: well lets not trivialise the grim historical moment today our focus should not be lost on the predatory us imperialism to day the sadist super imperial state with a formidable military machine in a helpless hopelessley unipolar neoliberal world oe has to careful while drawing comparisions wit iraq the scale of its devastation rape plunder and genocide lets not forgt more than one million iraqis died by us invasion lts not forget the death of fivemillion iraqi children thrugh us economic blockade its high time we take the issue of us imerialism deriously and strive for a world wide anti imperialist movement thats most principal contraction today hence thetop most political priority of the toiling democratic masses of the third world asit On Feb 1, 2008 7:03 AM, wrote: > Human greed to dominate in the guise of idealogy or religion and utter > disregard of ethics and morals in life for the greed of material wealth has > seen many devils in action. Buddhadeb battacharjee has also contributed his > might to reduce the population of his voters. ! If american leader wants to > control oil facilities, it is Buddha who wants to favour his indusrtial > tycoons that have indulged in the activities to be devil in writers > building, Biman bose has the credentials to be shakuni mama. ! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: prakash ray > Date: Thursday, January 31, 2008 8:52 pm > Subject: [Reader-list] The devil in the White House kills a million in > IRAQ > To: reader-list at sarai.net > > > Accordig to a joint study by a London based agency Opinion > > Research Business > > (ORB) and an Iraqi agency Independent Institute for Administration > > and Civil > > Society Studies (IIACSS), more than ONE MILLION Iraqis had lost > > their lives > > as a result of violence between March 2003 and August 2007. > > > > This study was published on Wednesday and widely reported in leading > > newspapers across the globe. > > > > In a report of the US (in July last year), the population of Iraq was > > estimated around 27 MILLION. > > > > The capital city of Iraq, Baghdad, has witnessed maximum > > casualities where > > more than 40 PERCENT FAMILIES HAD LOST ONE MEMBER. > > > > > > > > Prakash > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > > subscribe in the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > > list > > List archive: > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From tasveerghar at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 10:03:58 2008 From: tasveerghar at gmail.com (Tasveer Ghar) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 10:03:58 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India's Popular Culture: a Marg book release Message-ID: <484c1050802012033q11cf3bb7x8da1f05cf73851d8@mail.gmail.com> Marg Publications, India International Centre, and Asia Society (India Centre) cordially invite you to a panel discussion on Marg's latest publication INDIA'S POPULAR CULTURE Iconic Spaces and Fluid Images Edited by Jyotindra Jain Venue: The Auditorium, IIC Annexe, 40 max Mueller Marg, New Delhi 10003 On Wednesday, February 06, 2007, at 6:30 pm Panel: JYOTINDRA JAIN (Professor at the School of Arts and Aesthetics, JNU, New Delhi) SUMATHI RAMASWAMY (Professor of History at Duke University, North Carolina) YOUSUF SAEED (Independent filmmaker and researcher, also associated with Tasveer Ghar) ====== MARG REFLECTIONS (a discussion forum and an educational initiative) www.marg-art.org ====== Contents of the book Introduction: image mobility in India's popular culture. Jyotindra Jain Of Gods and Globes: the territorialization of Hindu deities in popular visual culture. Sumathi Ramaswamy "The Accidental Ramdev": the spread of a popular culture Christopher Pinney Optics for the Stage: curtains of the Surabhi Company Anuradha Kapur India's Republic Day Parade: restoring identities, constructing the nation Jyotindra Jain Mecca versus the Local Shrine: the dilemma of orientation in the popular religious art of Indian Muslims Yousuf Saeed The Bombay Film Poster: a short biography Ranjani Mazumdar The Family Archive: photo narratives from Goan villages Savia Viegas The Enclaved Gaze: exploring the visual culture of "world class living" in urban India Christiane Brosius From turbulence at turbulence.org Fri Feb 1 20:57:12 2008 From: turbulence at turbulence.org (Turbulence) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 10:27:12 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] [Announcements] Networked_Music_Review Commission: "Flou" by Jason Freeman, et al Message-ID: <004701c864e6$fe36f790$faa4e6b0$@org> February 1, 2008 Networked_Music_Review Commission: "Flou" by Jason Freeman, with Andrew Beck, Xiang Cao, Mark Godfrey, Jagadeeswaran Jayaprakash, Al Matthews, Rachel Ponder, Alex Rae, and Sriram Viswanathan http://turbulence.org/works/flou/ Needs Java 1.5+ "Flou" (pronounced "flew") is not exactly a game; you do fly a ship through space, but you cannot shoot anything, score points, or win or lose. The focus, rather, is on the soundtrack: as you navigate through a 3D world and zoom through objects in space, you add loops and apply effects to an ever-evolving musical mix. You can also design your own worlds to fly through and share them with other "Flou" users. "Flou" is a 2007 commission of New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc. for Networked_Music_Review. It was made possible with funding from the New York State Music Fund, established by the New York State Attorney General at Rockefeller Philanthropy Advisors. BIOGRAPHIES Jason Freeman (http://www.jasonfreeman.net) uses new technology and unconventional notation to break down barriers between composers, performers, and listeners, creating music that "stands as an example of the Web's mind-expanding possibilities" (Billboard) and helps to "bring composition into the Xbox age" (Wired). Recent projects include "Flock", a full-evening performance for saxophone quartet, dancers, and audience participation commissioned by Carnival Center for the Performing Arts in Miami; "Graph Theory", a solo violin and web-based work commissioned by Turbulence; "iTunes Signature Maker", a software artwork commissioned by Rhizome; and "Glimmer", an audience-participation piece commissioned by the American Composers Orchestra. Freeman received his B.A. in music from Yale University and his M.A. and D.M.A. in composition from Columbia University. He is currently an assistant professor at Georgia Tech in Atlanta, where he teaches in the Music Department in the College of Architecture. The students in Freeman's Networked Music course at Georgia Tech (Andrew Beck, Xiang Cao, Mark Godfrey, Jagadeeswaran Jayaprakash, Al Matthews, Rachel Ponder, Alex Rae, and Sriram Viswanathan) are currently pursuing M.S. degrees in music technology, digital media, and human-computer interaction, and they have diverse backgrounds as composers and performers of experimental and popular music, as computer scientists, and as engineers. Over the course of the fall 2007 semester, they collaborated to develop the concept for "Flou", to design its user interface, visual components, and sound worlds, and to write, test, and deploy the software. They are currently creating a live-performance version of the work for presentation in spring 2008. For more Networked_Music_Review Commissions please visit http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review/tags/nmr_commission Jo-Anne Green, Co-Director New Radio and Performing Arts, Inc.: http://new-radio.org New York: 917.548.7780 . Boston: 617.522.3856 Turbulence: http://turbulence.org Networked_Performance Blog: http://turbulence.org/blog Networked_Music_Review: http://turbulence.org/networked_music_review Upgrade! Boston: http://turbulence.org/upgrade New American Radio: http://somewhere.org _______________________________________________ announcements mailing list announcements at sarai.net https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/announcements From anansi1 at earthlink.net Sat Feb 2 23:16:32 2008 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul D. Miller) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 12:46:32 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [Reader-list] Hey from Paul/Dj Spooky - Michael Jackson!!! Message-ID: <21261179.1201974393602.JavaMail.root@elwamui-milano.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Hey y'all - I know I'm not normally the one to think about Michael Jackson, but when his people got in touch with me to comment on the 25th Anniversary of his album "Thriller," it was hard to turn down. The podcasts of the interviews and commentary will be up and running in a couple of days. For me, Thriller was one of the weirdest albums to hear as a kid, and the re-release should be interesting. They have crazy video stuff of Michael Jackson behind the scenes (no need to comment on how strange that could be!) and lots of other interesting goodies. For anyone who is into music of the last 30 years, regardless of how strange MJ has been... this is an often hilarious look into one of pop culture's most intriguing figures. And yes... there will be remixes!!! Paul Info below: ThrillerCast: A Free Thriller 25th Anniversary podcast series In celebration of the 25th anniversary of Michael Jackson’s multi-platinum, multi-award winning album Thriller, Legacy Recordings is proud to present Thrillercast: A groundbreaking podcast event dedicated to the 25th anniversary celebration of the world's biggest selling album of all time, "Thriller". The 40-episode podcast will run throughout 2008 and feature icons of music and screen, including hip-hop legend DMC, current superstars Akon, Nick Cannon, Kanye West, Chris Brown, will.i.am, Quincy Jones, Imogen Heap, choreographers Shane Sparks and Mia Michaels, turntablist DJ Spooky as well as many more special guests. Each guest sat down with us to discuss their experiences with Thriller, the various singles and videos, and its influence on them, both personally and professionally. Their stories are each unique and profound and singular in their message: Thriller was a game-changer across the board. 25 Years ago, Michael Jackson created what would become the biggest selling album of all time, Thriller. In 2008, Legacy Recordings is proud to present Thrillercast, a year-long podcast event featuring legends of music, film and culture taking you behind the scenes to their own experiences with Michael and hearing the album for the first time. Thrillercast launches on February 12th with Run-DMCs Darryl McDaniels. The free podcasts start today with "Episode 0", a teaser of what's to come, with a new episode available (roughly) each week starting on February 12. To be sure you and your readers don't miss an episode, subscribe the following ways: Embed the ThrillerCast widget into your web page: http://www.springwidgets.com/widgets/view/22851/ Through an RSS Feed: http://feeds.feedburner.com/thrillercast Listen at the Official Michael Jackson website: http://www.michaeljackson.com/ Or subscribe via iTunes or Zune From oishiksircar at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 21:13:47 2008 From: oishiksircar at gmail.com (OISHIK SIRCAR) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 09:43:47 -0600 Subject: [Reader-list] URGENT LETTER AGAINST THE ANTI-PROSTITUTION PLEDGE In-Reply-To: <2dea8d9c0802030300p71b78b30oc2ccceebab6ef9d8@mail.gmail.com> References: <2dea8d9c0802030256w69b0de9cq765c12161acdec6b@mail.gmail.com> <2dea8d9c0802030300p71b78b30oc2ccceebab6ef9d8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <62cba67a0802030743v40694d96m9c4544a2d9349634@mail.gmail.com> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Manohar Elavarthi Date: Feb 3, 2008 5:00 AM Subject: [rainbowplanet] URGENT LETTER AGAINST THE ANTI-PROSTITUTION PLEDGE To: rainbowplanet at yahoogroups.com Dear friends, A strong group of advocates is working to strike the anti-prostitution pledge from PEPFAR (www.pepfar.gov ). We need your help from OUTSIDE the USA. The pledge requires organizations receiving U.S. funding to sign a pledge "opposing prostitution." This has created problems for effective programs to combat AIDS. Please sign on to this letter to US Congress recommending that the pledge be removed. To sign on, write to pepfarletter at taumail.com. If you would like to add a sentence about the ways the pledge has affected your work, please send that too! The deadline to sign on is Tuesday, 5 February, at 5 pm GMT. In solidarity, Manohar To Congress Re: PEPFAR A Letter from the Field by January 31, 2008 Dear Member of the US Congress: We are members of non-governmental and community-based organizations from throughout the developing world. We are writing out of concern about the so-called anti-prostitution pledge within the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) and the ways it affects our work. The pledge requires organizations receiving U.S. funding to sign a pledge "opposing prostitution." This policy has undermined the work of many of our organizations and we must protest it. PEPFAR demonstrates the US's commitment to address one of the world's most urgent health problems, the need to prevent, treat, and care for people infected with or affected by HIV and AIDS. The United States Congress has generously appropriated nearly $23 billion for this program, yet the conditions attached to PEPFAR limit the success of this program and in fact even prevent the people most in need from accessing both the prevention services and anti-retroviral drugs the program was established to provide. In addition, this and other restrictions have seriously diminished the effectiveness of the plan by denying funding purely on ideological grounds to organizations and programs seeking to prevent the greatest number of new infections possible among some of the most vulnerable populations, specifically sex workers. Many of us have turned down US funding because of these restrictions, which if adopted would prevent us from reaching some of the people most vulnerable to HIV/AIDS. Those of us who in fact still receive USAID funding are forced to restrict our activities and sometimes end our support for programs that have proven successful in meeting the needs of the most vulnerable. The vagueness of both the law and policy implementing the pledge fosters self-censorship and stymies programs aimed at building skills within vulnerable populations and saving the lives of those daily at risk of infection, violence, discrimination and even death. We cannot effectively do our work of HIV prevention with the pledge. This restriction leads to violence against sex workers and other human rights violations by further isolating sex workers from mainstream society. Furthermore, this makes them prey to corrupt police and officials. Our work gives us critical perspective on the gaps between U.S. funding through PEPFAR and the reality on the ground. For example: · Sex workers in Bangladesh include women who have no other income-generating opportunities but whose programs have been cut due to the anti-prostitution pledge. HIV/AIDS has reached epidemic proportions among sex workers in some places. This pledge has been used as justification to deprive sex workers and suspected sex workers of clinical and humanitarian services. Sixteen drop-in centers for sex workers in Bangladesh were closed after their parent organization signed the pledge. For most of these women, the drop-in centers were the only places they had to bathe, to use the toilet, and to sleep. · In Thailand, male sex workers were prevented from accessing care at a clinic because offering services to sex workers was seen as violating the anti-prostitution pledge. · In Cambodia and Thailand, sex worker organizations have lost long-term partnerships with other service providers who feared losing their funding if they accepted sex workers at their facilities. We strongly advocate striking the prostitution pledge from the President's Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief. This well-intentioned clause has had extremely detrimental effects upon thousands of women, their families, and men throughout the developing world. It has undermined the effectiveness of US aid efforts. And it has undermined our trust in US support for the basic human rights of all persons, no matter their place in society. Yours sincerely, Manohar Elavarthi Bangalore, India __._,_.___ Messages in this topic ( 1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages| Files| Photos| Links| Database| Polls| Members| Calendar [image: Yahoo! Groups] Change settings via the Web(Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest| Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Need traffic? Drive customers With search ads on Yahoo! Moderator Central Yahoo! Groups Join and receive produce updates. Weight Loss Group on Yahoo! Groups Get support and make friends online. . __,_._,___ - -- OISHIK SIRCAR Scholar in Women's Rights Faculty of Law, University of Toronto 60 Harbord Street Room 016 B Toronto, ON M5S 3L1 oishiksircar at gmail.com oishik.sircar at utoronto.ca 416.876.7926 From rakesh at sarai.net Tue Feb 5 12:00:57 2008 From: rakesh at sarai.net (rakesh at sarai.net) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 12:00:57 +0530 (IST) Subject: [Reader-list] [Fwd: Anurag Kashyap at Habitat today!] Message-ID: <1960.61.17.118.235.1202193057.squirrel@mail.sarai.net> ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Anurag Kashyap at Habitat today! From: "Ranjani Mazumdar" Date: Tue, February 5, 2008 11:57 am To: rakesh at sarai.net bhagwati at sarai.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------- *The Habitat Film Club * Presents Director of *Black Friday*, scriptwriter of *Satya** *and dialogue writer of *Yuva* *ANURAG KASHYAP* With his Film *NO SMOKING* At the Stein Auditorium India Habitat Centre *Tuesday, 5th February at 7 pm* A Discussion with the Director will follow the Screening -- Ranjani Mazumdar Associate Professor Cinema Studies School of Arts and Aesthetics Jawaharlal Nehru University New Delhi 110067 http://www.jnu.ac.in/SAA/ ----------------------------------------- This email was sent using SquirrelMail. "Webmail for nuts!" http://squirrelmail.org/ From tcm1 at cornell.edu Mon Feb 4 02:37:01 2008 From: tcm1 at cornell.edu (timothy murray) Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2008 16:07:01 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Cornell Goldsen Archive Website and Workshop Message-ID: Please Forward (sorry for cross-postings) Inaugural Workshop: New Media Art and Archival Ambitions Friday, February 8, 2008 Carl A. Kroch Library, Lecture Rom, 2B48 Cornell University A Workshop to inaugurate the Rose Goldsen Archive of New Media Art and its website: http://goldsen.library.cornell.edu The Rose Goldsen Archive of New Media Art serves as a research repository of new media art and resources, featuring digital interfaces and artistic experimentation by international, independent artists. Designed as an experimental center of research and creativity, the Goldsen Archive includes materials by individual artists and collaborates on conceptual experimentation and archival strategies with international curatorial and fellowship projects. 10:00 Welcoming Remarks Timothy Murray, Curator, Rose Goldsen Archive; Professor of Comparative Literature & English Anne Kenney, Acting University Librarian Brett de Bary, Director of The Society for the Humanities Elaine Engst, University Archivist 10:15-11:45 Archival Ambitions Moderator, Renate Ferro, Department of Art, Goldsen Advisory Board H. Thomas Hickerson, Vice-Provost and University Librarian, University of Calgary Sherry Miller Hocking, Assistant Director, Experimental TV Center, Owego, NY Lucila Moctezuma, Media Arts Fellowship Director, Renew Media, New York City 1:45-3:30 New Media Art Practices Moderator, Maria Fernandez, Department of Art History & Visual Studies John Conomos, Senior Lecturer, Sydney College of the Arts, University of Sydney, Australia Annette Barbier, Chair, Department of Interactive Arts and Media, Columbia College, Chicago Kevin McCoy, Associate Professor of Art, New York University 3:45-4:30 Overview of the Rose Goldsen Archive Timothy Murray and Mickey Casad, Curators, Rose Goldsen Archive 4:30-6:00 Public Reception -- Timothy Murray Professor of Comparative Literature and English Curator, The Rose Goldsen Archive of New Media Art, Cornell Library http://goldsen.library.cornell.edu Director of Graduate Studies in Comparative Literature Director of Graduate Studies in Film and Video 285 Goldwin Smith Hall Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853 office: 607-255-4012 e-mail: tcm1 at cornell.edu From pkray11 at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 10:42:30 2008 From: pkray11 at gmail.com (prakash ray) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 10:42:30 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Films from Latin America Message-ID: <98f331e00802052112o1c38ae28yb0783dbad7430c44@mail.gmail.com> Centre for European & Latin American Studies & Mass Communication Research Centre Jamia Millia Islamia (in collaboration with the Embassies of Cuba, Ecuador,Mexico, Peru & Venezuela) present a Festival of Films from Latin America February 06-12 (3.00- 6.30 pm) at the MCRC- Old Studio Jamia Millia Islamia All are welcome Programme Schedule * (all films with subtitles in English) *subject to change Feb 06 Viva Cuba/ Juan Carlos Cremata Malberti /2005/80min/Cuba Olga/Jayme Monjardim/2004/141min/Brazil/ Feb 07 Dancing Cha Cha Cha(Bailando Cha Cha Cha)/ Inti Herrera /2005/100min/Cuba/ City of God(Cidade de Deus)/Fernando Meirelles/2002/130min/Brazil Feb 08 Nine Queens/Fabian Belinsky/Argentina/114 mins/ The Arcangel's Feather(La Pluma del Arcángel)/Luis Manzo /2002 /92min/Venezuela Feb 09 Amores Perros/Alejandro González Iñárritu/2001/153 min/Mexico Play and Strggle(Tocar y Luchar)/ Alberto Arvelo Mendoza /2006/60min/Venezuela Feb 11 Between Marx and a Naked Woman(Entre Marx y Una Mujer Desnuda)/ Camilo Luzuriaga/1996/90 min/Ecuador La Tigra/ Camilo Luzuriaga/Ecuador Feb 12 Y Tu Mamá Tambien/Alfonso Cuaron/2001 /105 min/Mexico As the Day Arrives(Mientras Llega el Día)/ Camilo Luzuriaga/100 min/Ecuador From shahzulf at yahoo.com Wed Feb 6 11:44:15 2008 From: shahzulf at yahoo.com (Zulfiqar Shah) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 22:14:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Question of land reforms in Pakistan Message-ID: <558178.43938.qm@web38813.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Question of land reforms in Pakistan By Zulfiqar Shah [Daily Dawn, February 2, 2008] THE rural society and agriculture sector of Pakistan is chained by feudal relationships which has given birth to an evil land-tenure system with a high degree of land concentration, absentee landlordism, insecurity of tenure for share-croppers and low agricultural productivity. According to a report, around ten million children are doing labour in brick kilns, farms, carpet manufacturing workshops and restaurants and another twenty million workers engaged in agriculture and industry work as bonded labour. Feudalism is the real problem and all other problems strem from it. The feudal lords and their allies constitute only five per cent of our agricultural households and own 64 per cent of our farm land. The rest of the 95 per cent are only their political vote-bank. The total land area of the country is about 803,940 square kilometres. About 48 million hectares, or 60 percent, is classified as unusable for forestry or agriculture and consists mostly of deserts, mountain and demographic settlements. About 21.9 million hectares is being cultivated. Nearly 65 per cent of the cropped area is in Punjab, perhaps 25 per cent in Sindh and 10 per cent in the NWFP and in Balochistan. Farming is Pakistan's largest economic activity. In Punjab, tenancies are split more evenly between share and fixed rent contracts. Landlords in Punjab are much smaller than those in Sindh, with a median holding of only seven acres of land, and are more likely to be residing in the same village as their tenants. In Sindh, more than one third of the land is tenanted and about two-thirds of land is under sharecropping, a form of farming where output is shared between the landowner and tenant. Sharecropping is the predominant form of tenancy in Sindh where the land ownership distribution is particularly skewed. According to a study, a median landlord in Sindh owns 28 acres of land, whereas nearly 80 per cent of the share-tenants are landless farmers. Big landlords in the province often employ kamdars to manage their tenants. Unlike India, Pakistan did not carry out essential land reforms soon after independence and has, as a result, failed to facilitate the much-needed transition of productive relations from feudal-agrarian stage to industrial one. However, three isolated attempts were made to reduce landholdings at intervals but these could not bring feudal system to an end. In the early 1950s, provincial governments attempted to eliminate some of the absentee landlords or rent collectors, but they had little success in the face of strong opposition. In January 1959, General Ayub Khan's government issued land reform regulations that aimed ‘to boost agricultural output, promote social justice, and ensure security of tenure.’ A ceiling of about 200 hectares of irrigated land and 400 hectares of non-irrigated land was placed on individual ownership; compensation was paid to owners for land surrendered. Numerous exemptions, including title transfers to family members, dampened the impact of the ceilings. Slightly fewer than one million hectares of land were surrendered, of which a little more than 250,000 hectares were sold to about 50,000 tenants. The land reforms failed to lessen the power or privileges of the landed elite. In March 1972, the Z. A. Bhutto government announced further land reform measures, which went into effect in 1973. The landownership ceiling was lowered to about five hectares of irrigated land and about twelve hectares of non-irrigated land; exceptions were limited to an additional 20 per cent of land for owners having tractors and tube wells. The ceiling could also be extended for poor-quality land. The owners of confiscated land received no compensation, and beneficiaries were not charged for land distributed. Official statistics showed that by 1977 only about 520,000 hectares had been surrendered, and nearly 285,000 hectares had been redistributed among about 71,000 farmers. The 1973 measure required landlords to pay all taxes, water charges, seed costs, and one-half of the cost of fertilizer and other inputs. It prohibited eviction of tenants as long as they cultivated the land, and it gave tenants first rights of purchase. Other regulations increased tenants' security of tenure and prescribed lower rent rates than had existed. The ceilings on private ownership of farmland in 1977 were further reduced to about four hectares of irrigated land and about eight hectares of non-irrigated land. Besides, agricultural income became taxable but small farmers owning ten hectares or fewer were exempted. The military regime of Zia ul-Haq did not make efforts to implement these reforms. Governments in the 1980s and early 1990s avoided any significant attempt at strict implementation of the land reform measures, because they got much of their support from landed aristocracy of the country. Agrarian reforms in Pakistan have never transformed rural society in the context of property structure and production re lations. The limits in reforms were fixed in terms of the individual but not family holdings, which resulted in transfer of land to family members and relatives. In times of the military rule, feudal lords support the ruling junta to protect their system. And the military badly needs them. Even after three waves of land reforms, 3,529 zamindars have 5,13,114 holdings of more than 100 acres in the irrigated areas, and 3,32,273 holdings exceeding 100 acres in un-irrigated areas. Some 7,94,774 Khatedars have 54,64,771 land holdings of less than 12 acres in irrigated areas. In un-irrigated areas 1,44,098 are reported to have 16,28,826 holdings of less than 24 acres. Land reforms play an important role in reducing poverty and empowering the poor farmers. In Pakistan, the power of landed aristocracy has acted as a barrier to social and economic progress of the rural society. Genuine land reform can help solve the problems caused by the fact that farmers often use relatively inefficient capital-intensive techniques due to distorted market prices and that small farmers do not have access to the liberal credit subsidies on imported machinery and capital equipment. Under any scheme of serious reforms, the land ceiling should be fixed at 50 acres irrigated and 100 acres non-irrigated land. The necessary legislation should be done in favour of land reforms and Haq-e-Shifa. All laws and regulations regarding land developed under colonial era need to be abandoned and a judicial commission on land utilisation should be formed to check exceeding commercialization of land. Under Haq-e-shifa, the agriculture land of about 8 acres should be allotted to the landless agriculture workers and peasants families. The agriculture land occupied by or allotted to military forms and government departments should be revoked and distributed among the landless peasants under the principle of Haq-e-shifa. Corporate forming should not be promoted. Allotment of forest land to the influential persons has to be revoked and re-allotted to the peasants on the condition of re-forestation. The occupied surveyed or un-surveyed lands in Kacho, Kaachho, Kohistan, Kach, Bailpat, Thar, Thal and elsewhere in the country must be re-surveyed and distributed among the landless peasants and agriculture workers families. Equitable distribution at the tail-end is imperative. It is necessary that all disputed irrigation projects including Kalabagh dam are given up and water requirements of Indus Delta fully met. To avoid water logging and salinity, the canals, branches and watercourses should be lined. The government must draw up an agriculture policy with the consultation of agriculture scientists, peasants, agriculture workers and growers. The parliament should be persuaded to pass a legislation for protection of the peasant’s rights, allowing them to have their trade unions, ensuring social justice and providing old age benefits to them. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com From prayas.abhinav at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 16:00:31 2008 From: prayas.abhinav at gmail.com (Prayas Abhinav) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 16:00:31 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Call for Participants: India's First Intensive Biological Art Workshop Message-ID: <825bb7b00802060230u3b05d6dbh2a87386a73825ec5@mail.gmail.com> hi all, might be interest to the members of this list, prayas --- National Centre for Biological Sciences, Bangalore March 10-14 2008 Srishti School of Art, Design and Technology and the National Centre for Biological Sciences, in collaboration with the Arts Catalyst and SymbioticA, is organizing an intensive 5 day workshop for artists and others interested people. It will be led by SymbioticA¹s Director Oron Catts and his scientific collaborator Greg Cozens from the University of Western Australia. This is a hands-on workshop where the tools of modern biology are demonstrated through artistic engagement, which in turn gives voice to the broader philosophical and ethical exploration into the extent of human intervention with other living things. It involves exploration of biological technologies and issues stemming from their use, and serves as a theoretical and practical introduction to the creation of biological art and is aimed at educating artists from India in issues of biotechnology and the life sciences. The workshop will cover hands-on engagement with these technologies in order to be able to carry out and critique manipulation of living systems from an informed practical perspective. The practical components include DNA extraction and fingerprinting, genetic engineering, plant and animal tissue culture and basic tissue engineering techniques. The workshop will present work of contemporary artists dealing with biotechnology. Scientists will be involved discussing ethical issues raised by artists' work in this area and leading visit to NCBS laboratories. At the end of the week, the ideas explored in the workshop will be opened out with a public discussion event at a venue to be announced in Bangalore. Attendance and Conditions: Attendance at the workshop will be by selection through open submission or by invitation. The selection will be made by Srishti, SymbioticA, the artist in residence at NCBS, and the Arts Catalyst's curator, currently in residence at Srishti. Artists are expected to be available and present for the entire week-long workshop, as this is an intensive process of learning and social interaction. Artists should be based in India, or nearby countries in South Asia. There is no cost to selected participants to attend the workshop, but travel and other expenses will not be covered. Limited accommodation is available at NCBS for artists traveling from outside Bangalore. Subsidized meals will be available for participants at NCBS. The organizers believes that the effects of the workshop will be felt in the long-term, as the artists, having learned the technology, will start working on their own biotech projects, or at least feel their work is informed by the experience. Please send an expression of interest in attending as an email, including a CV and brief bio, by February 8 2008 at the latest to Yashas Shetty: yashas at cema.in For More Information Visit: http://cema.srishti.ac.in/bioart From padmalatha.ravi at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 17:21:43 2008 From: padmalatha.ravi at gmail.com (Padmalatha Ravi) Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 17:21:43 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] JustFemme Film festival - calling for entries Message-ID: Hi, http://Justfemme.in is a women's online magazine. It is meant to be a platform for women to discuss issues and ideas that do not find space in the mainstream media. Women from all walks of life - from software engineers to housewives to students from across country and globe are writing for us. We are trying to create an opportunity for first time writers and non-journalists to make their opinion count. To take the discussion further, Justfemme is organising a women's film festival on 8th of March 2008, on the occasion of Women's day. We are looking for short films on women centric themes (not necessarily made by women). The films can be of a duration between 10min to 50 min. Please send in a brief synopsis of the film to justfemme.in at gamil.com The films should be in DVD format. Last date for submission of synopsis - 10 Feb 2008 -- Padma Spunky and unabashedly female http://justfemme.in From vivek at sarai.net Wed Feb 6 17:57:26 2008 From: vivek at sarai.net (Vivek Narayanan) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 17:57:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] what is to be done? In-Reply-To: <47986FF9.1030807@gmail.com> References: <48c2916d0801212324m25c66ab3p5bf16ace5ec90864@mail.gmail.com> <47986FF9.1030807@gmail.com> Message-ID: <47A9A7AE.90709@sarai.net> Strange... I have no idea about the recent "incident" that you all are talking about... I feel completely calm and happy with what has been happening on the reader list. Oh, wait a minute, that must be because I have 58 unread messages (since january 21) that went directly into my "bullshit" folder! Time to go and delete them, I suppose. Vivek Tapas Ray wrote: > I agree with Aarti and Nishant. I have been using filters quite > effectively against these individuals, whose crudity entertained me > initially in a perverse sort of way, but became tiresome after a while. > There is no need for anyone to engage with them, since it is now clear > that their objective is not to take part in rational debate but to > destroy this space by swamping it with hate speech. (The reason, I > think, is that they know they lack the ability to engage in reasoned > debate, and cannot hope to "win" it.) > > Mail filters are effective and can be put in place by anyone in a few > minutes. Nishant's suggestion about tagging and reporting abuse is also > good, but having such a system would mean someone, acting as moderator, > having to spend part of his/her day because of the actions of these > individuals - and I do not think they deserve so much importance. > > Tapas > > > > Nishant Shah wrote: > >> Hi Arti, All, >> I have been a silent lurker in these days of virulent invective and >> hate-speech that have unfolded on the reader-list. I haven't been silent >> because I had nothing to say, or that I was not provoked. I haven't been >> silent because I did not feel equally angered, sometimes to such an extent >> that I had to walk away from the computer and swear for the nth time that I >> will just unsubscribe from the reader's list. I have been silent because I >> do not think I have the vocabulary to counter arguments that are based on >> nothing more than personal prejudices, or the resources to deal with emails >> that read a little more than poison pen. >> >> However, there is also another reason why I prefer to be silent, as missiles >> are hurled from one end to the other, one camp offering peace flags and >> reasons, the other camp packaging the same in mails that resemble hand made >> grenades used in violent spaces. Out of long habit of dwelling on various >> digital forms, I have realised that the behaviour (read as writing) of some >> of the members who have come to haunt this particular digital platform, can >> only be classified as 'Troll'. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll). >> And as the classic motto goes, 'Do Not Feed The Troll.' There have been many >> discussions on the reader-list about questions of censorship, moderation, >> facilitation and so on. Each time a particularly venomous bunch of people >> descend upon the reader-list, probably abusing their office time and >> professional resources to spew horror on to the unwary people, we talk about >> the possibilities of lags, of delays, of moderation and of down-right >> banning. However, all these, as we have have often observed, will lead to >> nowhere. Death, assassination and banning on the interwebz is unfortunately, >> only notional, symbolic. There are no finalities to either of them and the >> banning or the moderation of one ID would only lead to the Trolls spinning >> of many more IDs which would then come back for their pound and a half of >> flesh. >> >> Hence, IMHO, the best thing to do is to stop FEEDING the TROLLS. I second >> your request that there are so many other more fruitful ways of engaging >> with so many different topics, that it is almost criminal (in the non-legal >> sense of the word) to waste time and resources in trying to convince the >> digital equivalent of a black box with six pre-fed scripts and no semblance >> of intelligence - artificial or otherwise. We might, next, as well start >> arguing with characters in a novel, parts in a movie, components of a >> website. Instead, it is best to just move on. >> >> Having said that, I also realise that it is sometimes difficult to move on. >> More often than not, Trolls specialise in putting their finger on the exact >> right spot that triggers our buttons and induce instantaneous combustion. >> And hence, there will always be people replying to these Flames that come >> our way; unfortunately thinking all the time that they are doing >> fire-fighting, when actually they are just adding fuel to the Troll Fire. >> One technical measure that I can think of - and this takes away the >> unenviable job of a list moderator - is to implement a tagging system in >> place for all mails that come to the reader list. This at least, allows >> people to tag their mails - sometimes the titles are misleading and provide >> no warning for what is to come - so that when a mail arrives, the readers >> can see the tags and decide for themselves whether they want to read the >> mail or not. >> >> The second suggestion I have might be more open for discussion - Most user >> based free spaces of interaction in the cyberspace have developed a policy >> of reactive resistance to what they look upon as an abuse of the space or >> its resources. Under such a policy, you do not ban users from saying what >> they want to say, in whichever way they want to say it, but instead allow >> other users to 'Report Abuse' against a particular user. The Terms of what >> constitutes Abuse can often be generic but also be very specific in nature >> and can have a large consultation from the people who have any stake in it. >> Reporting Abuse eventually needs some sort of a moderator who either >> resolves the problem or simply marks the charged person as guilty of abuse. >> Many times, the reason for this marking is also made public. This ensures >> that some IDs which are seen as destructive or Trollish, can appear >> differently in the conversations, flagged as potentially abusive in nature. >> This also helps in new readers or readers who have more invested in the >> questions, to stay away from the responses that these IDs might be >> generating. >> >> I hope both these suggestions sound feasible. I would be available for >> further communication or planning out of the architectural integration of >> such sort to the Reader's List. I am glad for your intervention and pleased >> to see that instead of wasting time in responding to the Trolls, we are now >> looking upon them as symptomatic to a certain kind of problem that emerges >> in 'free speech and free space' and trying to constructively deal with them. >> >> Un-lurking after a long time, >> Nishant >> On Jan 22, 2008 12:54 PM, Aarti Sethi wrote: >> >> >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> It is becoming more and more difficult to read the writing on the >>> reader-list. From misogyny, the likes of which I do not recall ever seeing >>> before, to threats of physical violence against women's bodies, to >>> right-wing Hindu vitriol, what is going on? It is actually now painful to >>> have to see 37 responses on a thread which deserves not even one, because >>> people are valiantly trying to talk rationally, reason with, respond to >>> people who should just be told to shut up. I know its very hard to keep >>> quite and let things go, especially when we have exemplars like chanchal >>> and >>> vedavati on this list. But we are all just getting fatigued now with this >>> relentless barrage of invective and hate that the list is constantly >>> subjected to. >>> >>> So now I am asking for solutions. What is to be done?, as Lenin asked many >>> years ago. What is to be done to save the reader-list? Can we have a >>> discussion on this? Clearly responding to them in any rational fashion is >>> not a solution. And I frankly have no interest or hope that anything any >>> of >>> us can say will make any difference. This is not about me refusing to have >>> a >>> conversation, because the fact is, they do not want to have a conversation >>> at all. And i think that is quite clear from the writing on the list in >>> the >>> past two weeks. >>> >>> This is a request to to please stop engaging with them. Lets ignore them, >>> lets not respond to them, lets please just mark all their mails so they go >>> into our collective trash folders, lets talk about other things, anything. >>> They can then keep talking to each other about the wonderful Hindu nation >>> they will build ad nauseum. But we dont have to listen to this. And of >>> course they will claim this as a victory etc etc. How we cant respond to >>> them, how we have nothing to say to their brilliant argumentation. I can >>> already predict the responses to this mail. But I have no trouble saying >>> that they are right. I am limited by my own linguistic incapacity to >>> respond >>> to writing which is so poisonous. >>> >>> And a final qualification about my use of "us" and "them" and any >>> questions >>> regarding othering, insularity, assumption of moral superiority etc etc. I >>> can unabashedly say that I have absolutely no problems creating this >>> binary >>> divide. I have no issues saying that these are people I want to have >>> nothing >>> to do with, as far as I am concerned they are unethical and violent and I >>> dont see why they should have any purchase on my time at all. There are >>> far >>> more interesting things being said and there are interesting people saying >>> them who I would much rather read, than the reams and reams of boring >>> hateful drivel that constantly issue from the likes of chanchal.. >>> >>> If anyone else has any other ideas please lets hear them. And if anyone >>> has >>> forgotten how to make filters so you can trash the trash, here is a link >>> to >>> Vivek's very instructive mail on the matter: >>> http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011005.html >>> >>> best >>> Aarti >>> _________________________________________ >>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>> Critiques & Collaborations >>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>> subscribe in the subject header. >>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From radhikarajen at vsnl.net Thu Feb 7 13:01:44 2008 From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net (radhikarajen at vsnl.net) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:01:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] what is to be done? References: <48c2916d0801212324m25c66ab3p5bf16ace5ec90864@mail.gmail.com> <"a c 6c08200801240216j2929a3a2yf8a6156ea46f0655"@mail.gmail.com> <47986FF9.1030807@gmail.com> <47A9A7AE.90709@sarai.net> Message-ID: Hi, all, it was amusing to read this response from a debater or an individual who lives in society but wants to shut himself from all thoughts, great, indeed. The following incidents atleast must evoke some humane response irrespective of the faith, religion or caste in a democratic individual to least a few, from the only recent past, - 1. Four activists of a rulong partner shot dead at a peaceful protest against taking over farmers lands at Coochbihar, reaction by total bundh in the state capital, being part of the governing system. 2. A fanatic from a region calls other individuals from other states as outsiders in the state, responded by violence of hurting innocent citizens., this individual expects loyalty to the small region and not to the nation. ! 3. Few individuals aided and abetted by across the border funds and explosives plan to violence for their percived faith, and are caught when planning strikes at their own places of worship, training to violence at again a place of worship. ! Common feature in all thse incidents is greed and unseemly implicit will to impose their thoughts on the society and its citizens. Yes, we can use filters and block these thoughts till it hits hard on the fundamental rights of our own, good governance going for a toss.? Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vivek Narayanan" To: "Tapas Ray" ; Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] what is to be done? > Strange... I have no idea about the recent "incident" that you all are > talking about... I feel completely calm and happy with what has been > happening on the reader list. > > Oh, wait a minute, that must be because I have 58 unread messages (since > january 21) that went directly into my "bullshit" folder! Time to go > and delete them, I suppose. > > Vivek > > Tapas Ray wrote: >> I agree with Aarti and Nishant. I have been using filters quite >> effectively against these individuals, whose crudity entertained me >> initially in a perverse sort of way, but became tiresome after a while. >> There is no need for anyone to engage with them, since it is now clear >> that their objective is not to take part in rational debate but to >> destroy this space by swamping it with hate speech. (The reason, I >> think, is that they know they lack the ability to engage in reasoned >> debate, and cannot hope to "win" it.) >> >> Mail filters are effective and can be put in place by anyone in a few >> minutes. Nishant's suggestion about tagging and reporting abuse is also >> good, but having such a system would mean someone, acting as moderator, >> having to spend part of his/her day because of the actions of these >> individuals - and I do not think they deserve so much importance. >> >> Tapas >> >> >> >> Nishant Shah wrote: >> >>> Hi Arti, All, >>> I have been a silent lurker in these days of virulent invective and >>> hate-speech that have unfolded on the reader-list. I haven't been silent >>> because I had nothing to say, or that I was not provoked. I haven't been >>> silent because I did not feel equally angered, sometimes to such an >>> extent >>> that I had to walk away from the computer and swear for the nth time >>> that I >>> will just unsubscribe from the reader's list. I have been silent because >>> I >>> do not think I have the vocabulary to counter arguments that are based >>> on >>> nothing more than personal prejudices, or the resources to deal with >>> emails >>> that read a little more than poison pen. >>> >>> However, there is also another reason why I prefer to be silent, as >>> missiles >>> are hurled from one end to the other, one camp offering peace flags and >>> reasons, the other camp packaging the same in mails that resemble hand >>> made >>> grenades used in violent spaces. Out of long habit of dwelling on >>> various >>> digital forms, I have realised that the behaviour (read as writing) of >>> some >>> of the members who have come to haunt this particular digital platform, >>> can >>> only be classified as 'Troll'. >>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll). >>> And as the classic motto goes, 'Do Not Feed The Troll.' There have been >>> many >>> discussions on the reader-list about questions of censorship, >>> moderation, >>> facilitation and so on. Each time a particularly venomous bunch of >>> people >>> descend upon the reader-list, probably abusing their office time and >>> professional resources to spew horror on to the unwary people, we talk >>> about >>> the possibilities of lags, of delays, of moderation and of down-right >>> banning. However, all these, as we have have often observed, will lead >>> to >>> nowhere. Death, assassination and banning on the interwebz is >>> unfortunately, >>> only notional, symbolic. There are no finalities to either of them and >>> the >>> banning or the moderation of one ID would only lead to the Trolls >>> spinning >>> of many more IDs which would then come back for their pound and a half >>> of >>> flesh. >>> >>> Hence, IMHO, the best thing to do is to stop FEEDING the TROLLS. I >>> second >>> your request that there are so many other more fruitful ways of engaging >>> with so many different topics, that it is almost criminal (in the >>> non-legal >>> sense of the word) to waste time and resources in trying to convince the >>> digital equivalent of a black box with six pre-fed scripts and no >>> semblance >>> of intelligence - artificial or otherwise. We might, next, as well start >>> arguing with characters in a novel, parts in a movie, components of a >>> website. Instead, it is best to just move on. >>> >>> Having said that, I also realise that it is sometimes difficult to move >>> on. >>> More often than not, Trolls specialise in putting their finger on the >>> exact >>> right spot that triggers our buttons and induce instantaneous >>> combustion. >>> And hence, there will always be people replying to these Flames that >>> come >>> our way; unfortunately thinking all the time that they are doing >>> fire-fighting, when actually they are just adding fuel to the Troll >>> Fire. >>> One technical measure that I can think of - and this takes away the >>> unenviable job of a list moderator - is to implement a tagging system in >>> place for all mails that come to the reader list. This at least, allows >>> people to tag their mails - sometimes the titles are misleading and >>> provide >>> no warning for what is to come - so that when a mail arrives, the >>> readers >>> can see the tags and decide for themselves whether they want to read the >>> mail or not. >>> >>> The second suggestion I have might be more open for discussion - Most >>> user >>> based free spaces of interaction in the cyberspace have developed a >>> policy >>> of reactive resistance to what they look upon as an abuse of the space >>> or >>> its resources. Under such a policy, you do not ban users from saying >>> what >>> they want to say, in whichever way they want to say it, but instead >>> allow >>> other users to 'Report Abuse' against a particular user. The Terms of >>> what >>> constitutes Abuse can often be generic but also be very specific in >>> nature >>> and can have a large consultation from the people who have any stake in >>> it. >>> Reporting Abuse eventually needs some sort of a moderator who either >>> resolves the problem or simply marks the charged person as guilty of >>> abuse. >>> Many times, the reason for this marking is also made public. This >>> ensures >>> that some IDs which are seen as destructive or Trollish, can appear >>> differently in the conversations, flagged as potentially abusive in >>> nature. >>> This also helps in new readers or readers who have more invested in the >>> questions, to stay away from the responses that these IDs might be >>> generating. >>> >>> I hope both these suggestions sound feasible. I would be available for >>> further communication or planning out of the architectural integration >>> of >>> such sort to the Reader's List. I am glad for your intervention and >>> pleased >>> to see that instead of wasting time in responding to the Trolls, we are >>> now >>> looking upon them as symptomatic to a certain kind of problem that >>> emerges >>> in 'free speech and free space' and trying to constructively deal with >>> them. >>> >>> Un-lurking after a long time, >>> Nishant >>> On Jan 22, 2008 12:54 PM, Aarti Sethi wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> It is becoming more and more difficult to read the writing on the >>>> reader-list. From misogyny, the likes of which I do not recall ever >>>> seeing >>>> before, to threats of physical violence against women's bodies, to >>>> right-wing Hindu vitriol, what is going on? It is actually now painful >>>> to >>>> have to see 37 responses on a thread which deserves not even one, >>>> because >>>> people are valiantly trying to talk rationally, reason with, respond to >>>> people who should just be told to shut up. I know its very hard to keep >>>> quite and let things go, especially when we have exemplars like >>>> chanchal >>>> and >>>> vedavati on this list. But we are all just getting fatigued now with >>>> this >>>> relentless barrage of invective and hate that the list is constantly >>>> subjected to. >>>> >>>> So now I am asking for solutions. What is to be done?, as Lenin asked >>>> many >>>> years ago. What is to be done to save the reader-list? Can we have a >>>> discussion on this? Clearly responding to them in any rational fashion >>>> is >>>> not a solution. And I frankly have no interest or hope that anything >>>> any >>>> of >>>> us can say will make any difference. This is not about me refusing to >>>> have >>>> a >>>> conversation, because the fact is, they do not want to have a >>>> conversation >>>> at all. And i think that is quite clear from the writing on the list in >>>> the >>>> past two weeks. >>>> >>>> This is a request to to please stop engaging with them. Lets ignore >>>> them, >>>> lets not respond to them, lets please just mark all their mails so they >>>> go >>>> into our collective trash folders, lets talk about other things, >>>> anything. >>>> They can then keep talking to each other about the wonderful Hindu >>>> nation >>>> they will build ad nauseum. But we dont have to listen to this. And of >>>> course they will claim this as a victory etc etc. How we cant respond >>>> to >>>> them, how we have nothing to say to their brilliant argumentation. I >>>> can >>>> already predict the responses to this mail. But I have no trouble >>>> saying >>>> that they are right. I am limited by my own linguistic incapacity to >>>> respond >>>> to writing which is so poisonous. >>>> >>>> And a final qualification about my use of "us" and "them" and any >>>> questions >>>> regarding othering, insularity, assumption of moral superiority etc >>>> etc. I >>>> can unabashedly say that I have absolutely no problems creating this >>>> binary >>>> divide. I have no issues saying that these are people I want to have >>>> nothing >>>> to do with, as far as I am concerned they are unethical and violent and >>>> I >>>> dont see why they should have any purchase on my time at all. There are >>>> far >>>> more interesting things being said and there are interesting people >>>> saying >>>> them who I would much rather read, than the reams and reams of boring >>>> hateful drivel that constantly issue from the likes of chanchal.. >>>> >>>> If anyone else has any other ideas please lets hear them. And if anyone >>>> has >>>> forgotten how to make filters so you can trash the trash, here is a >>>> link >>>> to >>>> Vivek's very instructive mail on the matter: >>>> http://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/2007-November/011005.html >>>> >>>> best >>>> Aarti >>>> _________________________________________ >>>> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >>>> Critiques & Collaborations >>>> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >>>> subscribe in the subject header. >>>> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >>>> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> _________________________________________ >> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. >> Critiques & Collaborations >> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with >> subscribe in the subject header. >> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list >> List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in Thu Feb 7 13:22:06 2008 From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in (S.Fatima) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 07:52:06 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Reader-list] what is to be done? In-Reply-To: <47A9A7AE.90709@sarai.net> Message-ID: <754835.760.qm@web8407.mail.in.yahoo.com> Dear Vivek Sorry to sound like this, but some of such mails from you reek of elitism. Redirecting some mails to the bullshit folder is one thing, but insulting them further goes to another level. Isn't that a personal vendetta that some on this list are requesting not to get into. Your calmness is akin to sitting in a limousine which is driving through the filthy roads and slums, which your darkened windows don't allow you to see. sf --- Vivek Narayanan wrote: > Strange... I have no idea about the recent > "incident" that you all are > talking about... I feel completely calm and happy > with what has been > happening on the reader list. > > Oh, wait a minute, that must be because I have 58 > unread messages (since > january 21) that went directly into my "bullshit" > folder! Time to go > and delete them, I suppose. > > Vivek > > Tapas Ray wrote: > > I agree with Aarti and Nishant. I have been using > filters quite > > effectively against these individuals, whose > crudity entertained me > > initially in a perverse sort of way, but became > tiresome after a while. > > There is no need for anyone to engage with them, > since it is now clear > > that their objective is not to take part in > rational debate but to > > destroy this space by swamping it with hate > speech. (The reason, I > > think, is that they know they lack the ability to > engage in reasoned > > debate, and cannot hope to "win" it.) > > > > Mail filters are effective and can be put in place > by anyone in a few > > minutes. Nishant's suggestion about tagging and > reporting abuse is also > > good, but having such a system would mean someone, > acting as moderator, > > having to spend part of his/her day because of the > actions of these > > individuals - and I do not think they deserve so > much importance. > > > > Tapas > > > > > > > > Nishant Shah wrote: > > > >> Hi Arti, All, > >> I have been a silent lurker in these days of > virulent invective and > >> hate-speech that have unfolded on the > reader-list. I haven't been silent > >> because I had nothing to say, or that I was not > provoked. I haven't been > >> silent because I did not feel equally angered, > sometimes to such an extent > >> that I had to walk away from the computer and > swear for the nth time that I > >> will just unsubscribe from the reader's list. I > have been silent because I > >> do not think I have the vocabulary to counter > arguments that are based on > >> nothing more than personal prejudices, or the > resources to deal with emails > >> that read a little more than poison pen. > >> > >> However, there is also another reason why I > prefer to be silent, as missiles > >> are hurled from one end to the other, one camp > offering peace flags and > >> reasons, the other camp packaging the same in > mails that resemble hand made > >> grenades used in violent spaces. Out of long > habit of dwelling on various > >> digital forms, I have realised that the behaviour > (read as writing) of some > >> of the members who have come to haunt this > particular digital platform, can > >> only be classified as 'Troll'. > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll). > >> And as the classic motto goes, 'Do Not Feed The > Troll.' There have been many > >> discussions on the reader-list about questions of > censorship, moderation, > >> facilitation and so on. Each time a particularly > venomous bunch of people > >> descend upon the reader-list, probably abusing > their office time and > >> professional resources to spew horror on to the > unwary people, we talk about > >> the possibilities of lags, of delays, of > moderation and of down-right > >> banning. However, all these, as we have have > often observed, will lead to > >> nowhere. Death, assassination and banning on the > interwebz is unfortunately, > >> only notional, symbolic. There are no finalities > to either of them and the > >> banning or the moderation of one ID would only > lead to the Trolls spinning > >> of many more IDs which would then come back for > their pound and a half of > >> flesh. > >> > >> Hence, IMHO, the best thing to do is to stop > FEEDING the TROLLS. I second > >> your request that there are so many other more > fruitful ways of engaging > >> with so many different topics, that it is almost > criminal (in the non-legal > >> sense of the word) to waste time and resources in > trying to convince the > >> digital equivalent of a black box with six > pre-fed scripts and no semblance > >> of intelligence - artificial or otherwise. We > might, next, as well start > >> arguing with characters in a novel, parts in a > movie, components of a > >> website. Instead, it is best to just move on. > >> > >> Having said that, I also realise that it is > sometimes difficult to move on. > >> More often than not, Trolls specialise in putting > their finger on the exact > >> right spot that triggers our buttons and induce > instantaneous combustion. > >> And hence, there will always be people replying > to these Flames that come > >> our way; unfortunately thinking all the time that > they are doing > >> fire-fighting, when actually they are just adding > fuel to the Troll Fire. > >> One technical measure that I can think of - and > this takes away the > >> unenviable job of a list moderator - is to > implement a tagging system in > >> place for all mails that come to the reader list. > This at least, allows > >> people to tag their mails - sometimes the titles > are misleading and provide > >> no warning for what is to come - so that when a > mail arrives, the readers > >> can see the tags and decide for themselves > whether they want to read the > >> mail or not. > >> > >> The second suggestion I have might be more open > for discussion - Most user > >> based free spaces of interaction in the > cyberspace have developed a policy > >> of reactive resistance to what they look upon as > an abuse of the space or > >> its resources. Under such a policy, you do not > ban users from saying what > >> they want to say, in whichever way they want to > say it, but instead allow > >> other users to 'Report Abuse' against a > particular user. The Terms of what > >> constitutes Abuse can often be generic but also > be very specific in nature > >> and can have a large consultation from the people > who have any stake in it. > >> Reporting Abuse eventually needs some sort of a > moderator who either > >> resolves the problem or simply marks the charged > person as guilty of abuse. > >> Many times, the reason for this marking is also > made public. This ensures > >> that some IDs which are seen as destructive or > Trollish, can appear > >> differently in the conversations, flagged as > potentially abusive in nature. > >> This also helps in new readers or readers who > have more invested in the > >> questions, to stay away from the responses that > these IDs might be > >> generating. > >> > >> I hope both these suggestions sound feasible. I > would be available for > >> further communication or planning out of the > architectural integration of > >> such sort to the Reader's List. I am glad for > your intervention and pleased > >> to see that instead of wasting time in responding > to the Trolls, we are now > >> looking upon them as symptomatic to a certain > kind of problem that emerges > >> in 'free speech and free space' and trying to > constructively deal with them. > >> > >> Un-lurking after a long time, > >> Nishant > >> On Jan 22, 2008 12:54 PM, Aarti Sethi > wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> Dear all, > >>> > === message truncated === Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have it on http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups From monica.mody at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 15:42:50 2008 From: monica.mody at gmail.com (Monica Mody) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 15:42:50 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Feb 8/Delhi: Double Feature: Carolyn Forche & Joy Harjo Message-ID: <4badad3b0802070212y2f7d9485kb85a059ea0558b50@mail.gmail.com> Open Baithak presents a reading by two of the most exciting contemporary American poets: CAROLYN FORCHE & JOY HARJO Feb 8, 2008, Friday @ 7 pm Amphitheatre, Gate # 2, India Habitat Centre, Lodhi Road, New Delhi 110003 Co-sponsors: The American Center & India Habitat Centre CAROLYN FORCHE is the author of "Blue Hour"; "The Angel of History", which received the Los Angeles Times Book Award; "The Country Between Us", which received the Poetry Society of America's Alice Fay di Castagnola Award, and was the Lamont Poetry Selection of The Academy of American Poets; and "Gathering the Tribes", which was selected for the Yale Series of Younger Poets. She has edited an anthology on poetry of witness and has translated many poets. Over the years Forche's quest to understand the individual's struggle with social upheaval and political turmoil has taken her from El Salvador to the occupied West Bank, Lebanon, and South Africa. Her trip is being funded by the NEA. JOY HARJO's books of poetry include "The Woman Who Fell From the Sky", which received the Oklahoma Book Arts Award; "In Mad Love and War", which received an American Book Award and the Delmore Schwartz Memorial Award, and others. She also performs her poetry and plays saxophone with her band, Joy Harjo and the Arrow Dynamics Band. Her many honors include The American Indian Distinguished Achievement in the Arts Award, the Josephine Miles Poetry Award, the Mountains and Plains Booksellers Award, the William Carlos Williams Award, and fellowships from the Arizona Commission on the Arts, the Witter BynnerFoundation, and the National Endowment for the Arts. She lives in Hawaii. Her trip is being funded by the NEA. *** OPEN BAITHAK is a contemporary gathering of poets in Delhi who perform. openbaithak at gmail.com openbaithak.wordpress.com From radhikarajen at vsnl.net Thu Feb 7 16:58:12 2008 From: radhikarajen at vsnl.net (radhikarajen at vsnl.net) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 16:28:12 +0500 Subject: [Reader-list] what is to be done? In-Reply-To: <754835.760.qm@web8407.mail.in.yahoo.com> References: <47A9A7AE.90709@sarai.net> <754835.760.qm@web8407.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Fatima, I greatfully accept your observation of a traveller in limousine driving thru filth and rot in the society, it is not meant to be any personal attack on any one, but in democratic society, where an individual who for his selfish reasons to gain power, was attacking every individual from south as "madrasis" without even knowing how many states are there in south India, when these individuals were hapless victims of this atrocity, Shivsena was boen as goon brigade, make over as "hindu " defenders was a misnomer, need of the time after the appeasement drama went to the extreme, by opening the gates of dilapidated building in Ayodhya, and the Shah bano case verdict upturned by ordinance. In a democratic society, faith is a very personal issue, which should not, I strongly opine should not come in the way of good governance of the communities as all are equal in law, must get good governance irrespective of faith, caste and region.Good governance is realised only when law treats every citizen equally, system punishes every one who takes law into his/her own hands to undermine the system. Raj Thackeray who seems to be iconic of Marathi pride gives no pride to any humanity in his boorish behaviour. But the way the system is hesitating to take action against such goons irrespective of faith, be it a Owaisi, or a Raj is really sad ugly belly of democratic governance. If a tennis player has to be reluctant to play the game she loves, which gave greater glories to her and the nation because of fathwas, such fathwa creators should be behind the bars along with these goons. Then only we can have rights and duties respected and cherished in the nation. When governance is to be without fear or favour as per the oath taken by every individual in the system of governance, when they fail to deliver good governance to all, discriminate on the basis of caste and faith , region and language, it is neither healthy democracy or good governance. ? Regards. ----- Original Message ----- From: "S.Fatima" Date: Thursday, February 7, 2008 1:24 pm Subject: Re: [Reader-list] what is to be done? To: Vivek Narayanan , reader-list at sarai.net > Dear Vivek > Sorry to sound like this, but some of such mails from > you reek of elitism. Redirecting some mails to the > bullshit folder is one thing, but insulting them > further goes to another level. Isn't that a personal > vendetta that some on this list are requesting not to > get into. > Your calmness is akin to sitting in a limousine which > is driving through the filthy roads and slums, which > your darkened windows don't allow you to see. > > sf > > --- Vivek Narayanan wrote: > > > Strange... I have no idea about the recent > > "incident" that you all are > > talking about... I feel completely calm and happy > > with what has been > > happening on the reader list. > > > > Oh, wait a minute, that must be because I have 58 > > unread messages (since > > january 21) that went directly into my "bullshit" > > folder! Time to go > > and delete them, I suppose. > > > > Vivek > > > > Tapas Ray wrote: > > > I agree with Aarti and Nishant. I have been using > > filters quite > > > effectively against these individuals, whose > > crudity entertained me > > > initially in a perverse sort of way, but became > > tiresome after a while. > > > There is no need for anyone to engage with them, > > since it is now clear > > > that their objective is not to take part in > > rational debate but to > > > destroy this space by swamping it with hate > > speech. (The reason, I > > > think, is that they know they lack the ability to > > engage in reasoned > > > debate, and cannot hope to "win" it.) > > > > > > Mail filters are effective and can be put in place > > by anyone in a few > > > minutes. Nishant's suggestion about tagging and > > reporting abuse is also > > > good, but having such a system would mean someone, > > acting as moderator, > > > having to spend part of his/her day because of the > > actions of these > > > individuals - and I do not think they deserve so > > much importance. > > > > > > Tapas > > > > > > > > > > > > Nishant Shah wrote: > > > > > >> Hi Arti, All, > > >> I have been a silent lurker in these days of > > virulent invective and > > >> hate-speech that have unfolded on the > > reader-list. I haven't been silent > > >> because I had nothing to say, or that I was not > > provoked. I haven't been > > >> silent because I did not feel equally angered, > > sometimes to such an extent > > >> that I had to walk away from the computer and > > swear for the nth time that I > > >> will just unsubscribe from the reader's list. I > > have been silent because I > > >> do not think I have the vocabulary to counter > > arguments that are based on > > >> nothing more than personal prejudices, or the > > resources to deal with emails > > >> that read a little more than poison pen. > > >> > > >> However, there is also another reason why I > > prefer to be silent, as missiles > > >> are hurled from one end to the other, one camp > > offering peace flags and > > >> reasons, the other camp packaging the same in > > mails that resemble hand made > > >> grenades used in violent spaces. Out of long > > habit of dwelling on various > > >> digital forms, I have realised that the behaviour > > (read as writing) of some > > >> of the members who have come to haunt this > > particular digital platform, can > > >> only be classified as 'Troll'. > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll). > > >> And as the classic motto goes, 'Do Not Feed The > > Troll.' There have been many > > >> discussions on the reader-list about questions of > > censorship, moderation, > > >> facilitation and so on. Each time a particularly > > venomous bunch of people > > >> descend upon the reader-list, probably abusing > > their office time and > > >> professional resources to spew horror on to the > > unwary people, we talk about > > >> the possibilities of lags, of delays, of > > moderation and of down-right > > >> banning. However, all these, as we have have > > often observed, will lead to > > >> nowhere. Death, assassination and banning on the > > interwebz is unfortunately, > > >> only notional, symbolic. There are no finalities > > to either of them and the > > >> banning or the moderation of one ID would only > > lead to the Trolls spinning > > >> of many more IDs which would then come back for > > their pound and a half of > > >> flesh. > > >> > > >> Hence, IMHO, the best thing to do is to stop > > FEEDING the TROLLS. I second > > >> your request that there are so many other more > > fruitful ways of engaging > > >> with so many different topics, that it is almost > > criminal (in the non-legal > > >> sense of the word) to waste time and resources in > > trying to convince the > > >> digital equivalent of a black box with six > > pre-fed scripts and no semblance > > >> of intelligence - artificial or otherwise. We > > might, next, as well start > > >> arguing with characters in a novel, parts in a > > movie, components of a > > >> website. Instead, it is best to just move on. > > >> > > >> Having said that, I also realise that it is > > sometimes difficult to move on. > > >> More often than not, Trolls specialise in putting > > their finger on the exact > > >> right spot that triggers our buttons and induce > > instantaneous combustion. > > >> And hence, there will always be people replying > > to these Flames that come > > >> our way; unfortunately thinking all the time that > > they are doing > > >> fire-fighting, when actually they are just adding > > fuel to the Troll Fire. > > >> One technical measure that I can think of - and > > this takes away the > > >> unenviable job of a list moderator - is to > > implement a tagging system in > > >> place for all mails that come to the reader list. > > This at least, allows > > >> people to tag their mails - sometimes the titles > > are misleading and provide > > >> no warning for what is to come - so that when a > > mail arrives, the readers > > >> can see the tags and decide for themselves > > whether they want to read the > > >> mail or not. > > >> > > >> The second suggestion I have might be more open > > for discussion - Most user > > >> based free spaces of interaction in the > > cyberspace have developed a policy > > >> of reactive resistance to what they look upon as > > an abuse of the space or > > >> its resources. Under such a policy, you do not > > ban users from saying what > > >> they want to say, in whichever way they want to > > say it, but instead allow > > >> other users to 'Report Abuse' against a > > particular user. The Terms of what > > >> constitutes Abuse can often be generic but also > > be very specific in nature > > >> and can have a large consultation from the people > > who have any stake in it. > > >> Reporting Abuse eventually needs some sort of a > > moderator who either > > >> resolves the problem or simply marks the charged > > person as guilty of abuse. > > >> Many times, the reason for this marking is also > > made public. This ensures > > >> that some IDs which are seen as destructive or > > Trollish, can appear > > >> differently in the conversations, flagged as > > potentially abusive in nature. > > >> This also helps in new readers or readers who > > have more invested in the > > >> questions, to stay away from the responses that > > these IDs might be > > >> generating. > > >> > > >> I hope both these suggestions sound feasible. I > > would be available for > > >> further communication or planning out of the > > architectural integration of > > >> such sort to the Reader's List. I am glad for > > your intervention and pleased > > >> to see that instead of wasting time in responding > > to the Trolls, we are now > > >> looking upon them as symptomatic to a certain > > kind of problem that emerges > > >> in 'free speech and free space' and trying to > > constructively deal with them. > > >> > > >> Un-lurking after a long time, > > >> Nishant > > >> On Jan 22, 2008 12:54 PM, Aarti Sethi > > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>> Dear all, > > >>> > > > === message truncated === > > > > Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we > have it on http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader- > list > List archive: From asitredsalute at gmail.com Thu Feb 7 19:32:00 2008 From: asitredsalute at gmail.com (Asit asitreds) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 09:02:00 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] what is to be done? In-Reply-To: References: <47A9A7AE.90709@sarai.net> <754835.760.qm@web8407.mail.in.yahoo.com> Message-ID: dear all this debate takes us back to fundamentals like democrac citizenship rule of law etc governance should be looked through our concept of state is there a neutral state or is a biased class state rule of law is a luxury for people who are influential and pay the lawyers every one knows how a poorman is treted in the police statined so we should come ut of these niciteis as governance democracy equalty etc in a class societ the state apparus is biased against the poor so lets have no illusions about democracy and rule of law emocacy means power is shared equally in a class society the poor are powerles lets have no illusions about voting rule of la etc they make no difference for the subalterns unless we take up the property question seriously there can be no equality hence democracy hence rule of law without radical restructering of property relationships toput it bluntly there can be no democracy without socialism asit On Feb 7, 2008 6:28 AM, wrote: > Dear Fatima, > > > I greatfully accept your observation of a traveller in limousine driving > thru filth and rot in the society, it is not meant to be any personal > attack on any one, but in democratic society, where an individual who for > his selfish reasons to gain power, was attacking every individual from south > as "madrasis" without even knowing how many states are there in south India, > when these individuals were hapless victims of this atrocity, Shivsena was > boen as goon brigade, make over as "hindu " defenders was a misnomer, need > of the time after the appeasement drama went to the extreme, by opening the > gates of dilapidated building in Ayodhya, and the Shah bano case verdict > upturned by ordinance. > > In a democratic society, faith is a very personal issue, which should > not, I strongly opine should not come in the way of good governance of the > communities as all are equal in law, must get good governance irrespective > of faith, caste and region.Good governance is realised only when law > treats every citizen equally, system punishes every one who takes law into > his/her own hands to undermine the system. > > Raj Thackeray who seems to be iconic of Marathi pride gives no pride to > any humanity in his boorish behaviour. But the way the system is hesitating > to take action against such goons irrespective of faith, be it a Owaisi, or > a Raj is really sad ugly belly of democratic governance. > If a tennis player has to be reluctant to play the game she loves, which > gave greater glories to her and the nation because of fathwas, such fathwa > creators should be behind the bars along with these goons. Then only we can > have rights and duties respected and cherished in the nation. > > When governance is to be without fear or favour as per the oath taken by > every individual in the system of governance, when they fail to deliver good > governance to all, discriminate on the basis of caste and faith , region and > language, it is neither healthy democracy or good governance. ? > > Regards. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "S.Fatima" > Date: Thursday, February 7, 2008 1:24 pm > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] what is to be done? > To: Vivek Narayanan , reader-list at sarai.net > > > Dear Vivek > > Sorry to sound like this, but some of such mails from > > you reek of elitism. Redirecting some mails to the > > bullshit folder is one thing, but insulting them > > further goes to another level. Isn't that a personal > > vendetta that some on this list are requesting not to > > get into. > > Your calmness is akin to sitting in a limousine which > > is driving through the filthy roads and slums, which > > your darkened windows don't allow you to see. > > > > sf > > > > --- Vivek Narayanan wrote: > > > > > Strange... I have no idea about the recent > > > "incident" that you all are > > > talking about... I feel completely calm and happy > > > with what has been > > > happening on the reader list. > > > > > > Oh, wait a minute, that must be because I have 58 > > > unread messages (since > > > january 21) that went directly into my "bullshit" > > > folder! Time to go > > > and delete them, I suppose. > > > > > > Vivek > > > > > > Tapas Ray wrote: > > > > I agree with Aarti and Nishant. I have been using > > > filters quite > > > > effectively against these individuals, whose > > > crudity entertained me > > > > initially in a perverse sort of way, but became > > > tiresome after a while. > > > > There is no need for anyone to engage with them, > > > since it is now clear > > > > that their objective is not to take part in > > > rational debate but to > > > > destroy this space by swamping it with hate > > > speech. (The reason, I > > > > think, is that they know they lack the ability to > > > engage in reasoned > > > > debate, and cannot hope to "win" it.) > > > > > > > > Mail filters are effective and can be put in place > > > by anyone in a few > > > > minutes. Nishant's suggestion about tagging and > > > reporting abuse is also > > > > good, but having such a system would mean someone, > > > acting as moderator, > > > > having to spend part of his/her day because of the > > > actions of these > > > > individuals - and I do not think they deserve so > > > much importance. > > > > > > > > Tapas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nishant Shah wrote: > > > > > > > >> Hi Arti, All, > > > >> I have been a silent lurker in these days of > > > virulent invective and > > > >> hate-speech that have unfolded on the > > > reader-list. I haven't been silent > > > >> because I had nothing to say, or that I was not > > > provoked. I haven't been > > > >> silent because I did not feel equally angered, > > > sometimes to such an extent > > > >> that I had to walk away from the computer and > > > swear for the nth time that I > > > >> will just unsubscribe from the reader's list. I > > > have been silent because I > > > >> do not think I have the vocabulary to counter > > > arguments that are based on > > > >> nothing more than personal prejudices, or the > > > resources to deal with emails > > > >> that read a little more than poison pen. > > > >> > > > >> However, there is also another reason why I > > > prefer to be silent, as missiles > > > >> are hurled from one end to the other, one camp > > > offering peace flags and > > > >> reasons, the other camp packaging the same in > > > mails that resemble hand made > > > >> grenades used in violent spaces. Out of long > > > habit of dwelling on various > > > >> digital forms, I have realised that the behaviour > > > (read as writing) of some > > > >> of the members who have come to haunt this > > > particular digital platform, can > > > >> only be classified as 'Troll'. > > > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll). > > > >> And as the classic motto goes, 'Do Not Feed The > > > Troll.' There have been many > > > >> discussions on the reader-list about questions of > > > censorship, moderation, > > > >> facilitation and so on. Each time a particularly > > > venomous bunch of people > > > >> descend upon the reader-list, probably abusing > > > their office time and > > > >> professional resources to spew horror on to the > > > unwary people, we talk about > > > >> the possibilities of lags, of delays, of > > > moderation and of down-right > > > >> banning. However, all these, as we have have > > > often observed, will lead to > > > >> nowhere. Death, assassination and banning on the > > > interwebz is unfortunately, > > > >> only notional, symbolic. There are no finalities > > > to either of them and the > > > >> banning or the moderation of one ID would only > > > lead to the Trolls spinning > > > >> of many more IDs which would then come back for > > > their pound and a half of > > > >> flesh. > > > >> > > > >> Hence, IMHO, the best thing to do is to stop > > > FEEDING the TROLLS. I second > > > >> your request that there are so many other more > > > fruitful ways of engaging > > > >> with so many different topics, that it is almost > > > criminal (in the non-legal > > > >> sense of the word) to waste time and resources in > > > trying to convince the > > > >> digital equivalent of a black box with six > > > pre-fed scripts and no semblance > > > >> of intelligence - artificial or otherwise. We > > > might, next, as well start > > > >> arguing with characters in a novel, parts in a > > > movie, components of a > > > >> website. Instead, it is best to just move on. > > > >> > > > >> Having said that, I also realise that it is > > > sometimes difficult to move on. > > > >> More often than not, Trolls specialise in putting > > > their finger on the exact > > > >> right spot that triggers our buttons and induce > > > instantaneous combustion. > > > >> And hence, there will always be people replying > > > to these Flames that come > > > >> our way; unfortunately thinking all the time that > > > they are doing > > > >> fire-fighting, when actually they are just adding > > > fuel to the Troll Fire. > > > >> One technical measure that I can think of - and > > > this takes away the > > > >> unenviable job of a list moderator - is to > > > implement a tagging system in > > > >> place for all mails that come to the reader list. > > > This at least, allows > > > >> people to tag their mails - sometimes the titles > > > are misleading and provide > > > >> no warning for what is to come - so that when a > > > mail arrives, the readers > > > >> can see the tags and decide for themselves > > > whether they want to read the > > > >> mail or not. > > > >> > > > >> The second suggestion I have might be more open > > > for discussion - Most user > > > >> based free spaces of interaction in the > > > cyberspace have developed a policy > > > >> of reactive resistance to what they look upon as > > > an abuse of the space or > > > >> its resources. Under such a policy, you do not > > > ban users from saying what > > > >> they want to say, in whichever way they want to > > > say it, but instead allow > > > >> other users to 'Report Abuse' against a > > > particular user. The Terms of what > > > >> constitutes Abuse can often be generic but also > > > be very specific in nature > > > >> and can have a large consultation from the people > > > who have any stake in it. > > > >> Reporting Abuse eventually needs some sort of a > > > moderator who either > > > >> resolves the problem or simply marks the charged > > > person as guilty of abuse. > > > >> Many times, the reason for this marking is also > > > made public. This ensures > > > >> that some IDs which are seen as destructive or > > > Trollish, can appear > > > >> differently in the conversations, flagged as > > > potentially abusive in nature. > > > >> This also helps in new readers or readers who > > > have more invested in the > > > >> questions, to stay away from the responses that > > > these IDs might be > > > >> generating. > > > >> > > > >> I hope both these suggestions sound feasible. I > > > would be available for > > > >> further communication or planning out of the > > > architectural integration of > > > >> such sort to the Reader's List. I am glad for > > > your intervention and pleased > > > >> to see that instead of wasting time in responding > > > to the Trolls, we are now > > > >> looking upon them as symptomatic to a