From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Feb 1 02:39:19 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:09:19 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <6b79f1a70901311002v76d5e4b6r68a7c2b60197894d@mail.gmail.com> References: <65be9bf40901300205s1f6bd264jf1ec1977a530d7ae@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901302153v6c6b6ab1ub5624f0bc512a714@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901310535u5c221867l4a23617667143eb2@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901310650i69833a50h54bbb11e8b90c9c3@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901310714r795dc79bhce80cbc3de737624@mail.gmail.com> <65be9bf40901310911g34d9caf3j6a60b61e458c16e9@mail.gmail.com> <6b79f1a70901311002v76d5e4b6r68a7c2b60197894d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40901311309p2eb6e47fg91179d4c2f663c93@mail.gmail.com> Dear Pawan Thank you for your response. I acknowledge your understanding. Please allow me to say I do not have any hesitation in considering your view, hence, for a moment, I want to believe that RSS is a nationalist organization which intends good for all Indian citizens but in order for this view to last longer and for me to believe in the intent and purposes of RSS, I need to be reasonably satisfied. Now for all that I have read of the RSS and about the RSS and from the RSS's literature I am not reasonably satisfied at all, about either the intention and the objective of RSS, on the contrary I feel disconcerted. The reason being I feel that in its enthusiasm to embrace the nation and embrace all those things which it considers as nationalistic; the ideology of RSS filters out people like me, not because of what I am but because of who I am. RSS claims-'the political field too needs to be cleansed and reformed, based on Hindu values and ethos', had this sentiment been articulated as, 'in the political field all Hindu values and ethos needs to be cleansed and reformed' I would not have had any objection to the RSS at all, because in that case, they would have represented values and ethos of what they interpret as Hinduism. But by saying 'the political field', the RSS means the entire political spectrum of India. 'the political field' in so far as India is concerned, contain a range of ideas, and ideologies which represent aspirations of a lot of people. In this regard by claiming to 'reform and cleanse' 'the political field' of India, the RSS sets itself an ugly task by which it makes all those thoughts which are at variance with the RSS's interpretation of 'Hinduism' as undesirable hence needing 'reforms' and dirty hence need to be 'cleansed'. I find this form of thinking divisive because it pits all those people who are broadly identified as Hindus against those who are not. I find this sort of thinking anti-national because it goes against the grain of fundamental logic of Indian Constitution which allows for diversity of religious beliefs and its propagation. (You may find the RSS quote used above by following this url- http://www.rss.org:8080/New_RSS/Mission_Vision/Why_RSS.jsp) The ideals contained in the Indian constitution from the basis of my arguments. If you were to assert that you do not believe in the Indian constitution at all, then I will have no problem with you ascribing to the beliefs bestowed by an organization like the RSS. Now Pawan, don't you feel that it is unreasonable to disassociate people on the basis of who they are, primarily because people do not have any control over their birth. The argument to segregate people, to segregate citizens on the basis of their imagined religious identities is deployed by organizations like Lashker too. Hence, I find that problematic too. There was a hint of tagging in your mail, to the effect like- 'you and secularists' etc. This does not work for me at all because this demonstrates frustration as a form of response. I expect you to present a reasonable argument. I expect you to be infectious in your belief and I expect you to infect me with it. But for that you shall have to find some time and articulate your enthusiasm for RSS. I am ready to listen and read all what you have to say. Please do not get me wrong here. I welcome your comments but I find it hard to interpret through poetry and borrowed wisdom of other people. Please put it in a context and argue dil se! Regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Feb 1 05:22:52 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 23:52:52 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-81 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901311552q2a43e2b5pcdea0fe9c767d006@mail.gmail.com> http://www.expresscomputeronline.com/20030317/newsan1.shtml SISL uses Intelligent Digital Passport for total security In an era when security is on the minds of everyone from corporates to the home user, there is an urgent need for a device that ensures maximum protection against intruders. The scientific applications centre of Siemens Information Systems (SISL) recently came out with a biometric-based smart card, which promises just this. Stanley Glancy has more details September 11 may now be a distant memory for those of us not directly touched by the carnage. But the fundamental issues it raised with respect to the foolproof nature of our security systems continues to haunt us. No system is invulnerable. But with traditional modes of access control such as passwords, PINs, keys, entry cards, codes and other handwriting-based identification methods proving to be far more susceptible to attack than previously believed, it became imperative to develop a technology that would provide higher levels of security. Over the past year, technologists across the globe went into overdrive, trying to develop the perfect security system. Biometrics has been the buzzword but the fascination with smart card technology still holds sway over the majority. Taking this trend into consideration, many companies have been trying to develop biometrics-based smart cards. Among them is Siemens Information Systems (SISL) India. The company has introduced an authentication device called the Intelligent Digital Passport (IDP), which incorporates multiple biometrics into a smart card for authentication purposes. The Market Says Dr Vinay Vaidya, associate vice president-scientific applications centre for SISL, "The total market for security in the US alone is worth $60 billion. The global market for smart cards is worth $100 billion and is expected to touch $600 billion by 2006." According to Vaidya, most of these cards will be biometrics-based. The reason for this being that biometrics is today considered the most foolproof method of access control. And with multiple biometrics available on the same card, the chances of a breach becomes all the more remote. Even research and advisory firm Gartner says that the security space is seeing high growth in India. Many countries have introduced smart card-based identity cards and others are in the process of launching them. Hong Kong, for instance, has introduced a national ID card. China, on the other hand, plans to launch close to 800 million cards by the end of March. Master Card has already introduced a PKI-based solution, called MC2 card, in Latin America. History SISL's foray into biometric-based smart cards was a natural evolution of R&D work done at the scientific application centre in Pune. Started in 1997, this centre has been conducting experiments in the areas of image processing, satellite imaging, document processing and medical imaging. Medical imaging required compression of data. Says Vaidya, "Though storage rates have gone down, code optimisation and compression is a must. With the rate of data acquired by an organisation growing at a rapid pace, the overall spending on storage has been on the rise. The only way to cut cost is to compress data as much as possible." It was at this point of time that SISL decided to conduct R&D in the biometrics-based smart card space. Vaidya's team identified three areas of biometrics that could be incorporated on the card to provide maximum security—fingerprint identification, facial recognition and voice recognition. The company had already gained considerable expertise in the area of data compression. The challenge now was in using this expertise to compress the biometrics of an individual into the 32 KB chip on the smart card. Elaborates Vaidya, "Though 64 KB cards are available abroad, 32 KB is the maximum limit offered by vendors here in India. Hence, it was even more of a challenge for us to compress heavy data into a 32 KB chip." This was when the company decided to expand its expertise in data compression into other areas. Fingerprint identification was an evolved technology and could be compressed to the required size, but the problem with most companies experimenting with compression of facial data features was that due to loss of data during the compression process the resulting image was difficult to recognise. But SISL's expertise in the JPEG2000 standards area came in handy. The company was able to compress facial features to the bare minimum without any loss of data. Incidentally, SISL is the only company in India and among 10 other companies in the world working on the JPEG2000 standard. The next step was speech recognition or what SISL calls speaker identification. According to Vaidya, SISL's system is not concerned with speech recognition but with speaker verification. SISL integrated all the various technologies along with the traditional text information and compressed it into a 10 KB file. The entire information could be verified by a system in less than 50 seconds. But many organisations found this too long a time for verification. This prompted SISL to work on further compression of the data on the chip. The company succeeded in its objective. In the current version of biometrics-based smart cards offered by SISL, the data has been compressed to less than 6 KB and can be verified in 15 seconds. The challenge the company has posed for itself is to reduce the verification time to less than eight seconds, without any loss of data or compromise on quality. Advantages Since the verification unit is not connected to the server, an organisation deploying IDP can save a lot in terms of cost of hardware and real estate space occupied by servers. Also, since the system is an independent unit, the problems associated with authentication if the server were to crash have been alleviated. The IDP can be used for myriad purposes, including access control to highly secured areas, banking applications such as ATM services, Web-enabled transactions, network access, time and attendance monitoring systems. The IDP unit has both software and hardware components consisting of a fingerprint scanner, speaker/microphone, camera and a smart card reader. In addition, it also has a computer-processing unit, and application software. If required, all the above components can be integrated in a kiosk along with a barcode reader for additional functionality. The customer is allowed to choose the number of biometrics at the time of purchase, with options to expand at a later date. IDP also has provisions for adding more biometrics as and when SISL achieves breakthroughs in new areas. Security Though it is possible to duplicate a smart card personalised by IDP, the uniqueness of each cardholder's biometrics makes it practically impossible for an unauthorised person to use the card. However, according to Vaidya, duplication of the smart card would mean that a new card is created for the original cardholder. But new data insertion for an unauthorised person will be extremely difficult. Says he, "Proper safety measures have been incorporated in the system so that data on the smart cards is difficult to decipher. The entire data is compressed, encrypted, and put in a non-conventional format, ensuring that unauthorised card creation does not take place." Challenges Vaidya visualises several challenges before the solution will gain acceptance in the country. Says he, "Awareness is still not very high in India. The technology can't work with a mass of people, verification is done on each individual separately. We also have to train people on how the system works." In the case of speaker identification, if there are long pauses between words the system can't function effectively. Or if the concerned person speaks in a different tone—too loudly or too softly—then the system won't work. In India, though the government introduced the system of a national ID card, there have been no coherent efforts to develop something on the lines of a smart card. But SISL has been working in association with EPFO (employee provident fund organisation) to provide smart cards to its more than 2.5 crore subscribers. The card, based on the US social security number system, will provide a unique identification number. It will provide the subscriber access to his account position, pension payments, claim settlements, etc. The best part about the card is that the employee can use the same card even if he were to change jobs. The company plans to spread the technology in India. Target verticals for SISL include defence and banks. But according to Vaidya, the technology is applicable wherever security of premises is valued. As part of its expansion strategy, SISL has appointed a number of channel partners for selling and providing requisite support. Says Vaidya, "We have already appointed partners in Indore, Bhopal and Kolkata and we are at the moment looking for established channel partners in the metros." The card is currently priced at Rs 250, which is still too high for many organisations. But advancement in technology should see prices coming down in the near future. Also, though there are no competing products in the Indian market, we should see more and more security companies coming out with similar products. This will definitely provide the boost required for increasing visibility. Besides, government adoption of the technology should also see this sector receiving a major boost. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Feb 1 05:25:17 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 23:55:17 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-82 Message-ID: <65be9bf40901311555o73626fcct7a0bd64f1e32c809@mail.gmail.com> http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ew/2006/12/25/stories/2006122500020100.htm One key to many locks Preethi J A single swipe is all it takes to unlock several applications. Smart cards promise faster and safer access to work spots and work systems. But the market is not too sold on them, yet. t's the ID badge of the future — minus the passport photo, company logo and a signature. Oops, unless you are thinking of a digital signature. The smart card is ready to make your life faster and smarter. Soon, the card will be your key to the office, food coupon, debit card and insurance. The smart card will be a digital identity store that will hold photographs (images), biometric data (fingerprints), personal information numbers (PIN) as well as other electronic credentials stored on the card, such as digital certificates and e-money. The card will allow a corporate user to use a single sign-on from any branch of his enterprise using a secure ID. These cards, when used with appropriate data collection systems, will allow their bearers to be identified in several standard ways. What it contains A smart card is a credit-card sized credential with a microprocessor chip embedded in it. Smart cards are used in conjunction with a smart card reader and access security software when used with a desktop or server. The contact-less ones have a chip embedded within, which is invisible to the user. This chip communicates with physical access readers over a wireless protocol to permit or deny entry into premises or sections within premises. The chip runs on Java Card operating system using cryptography for security. The 32-bit processor, running at 25 to 32 MHz, is encased by tough plastic to ensure it doesn't get scratched. These are the new kind of cards, called contact-less smart cards. Their predecessor, contact smart cards, or `proximity' cards, have been in existence for more than 20 years. The contact cards had a slow data transfer rate, the communication was not secure and the card could only launch a single application. The reader for such a card would continuously sweep the room for a card transmitting information at a particular frequency (125KHz). The card would respond with the card number when in the proximity of the reader. The new contact-less smart card does more than that. After responding to the reader's sweep request with a serial number, it requests an encrypted communication over the 13.58 MHz frequency. The reader authenticates and initiates a secure communication. The card then transfers data stored on it. It uses encrypted security, and can store up to 16 Kb of data. Since it is based on a processor, it can launch multiple applications. It is also much faster at 424 KB/sec. Smart badging According to the Smart Card Alliance, identity theft is the fourth most common threat to companies today, after viruses, `denial of service' attacks and spam. With smart badging, which is the combination of physical and logical access capabilities on a single card, organisations can ensure this threat is mitigated. Organisations can manage and monitor their employees' movements both in reality (across the office) and virtually (in the company network). Smart cards can be used for both physical access (such as entry to buildings) and logical access (such as access to computer systems and networks). When a user walks up to his desktop, the chip on the smart card transmits the information on it to the reader, which reads, stores and identifies the biometric template of the individual, before granting access to the desktop. The card can also store digital certificates, which are used to send secure e-mails and for accessing sensitive content on the Intranet. According to IDC, 60 per cent of identity threats are internal, people with privileged access. Smart cards are part of the solution to this issue. Examples of application Surat-based Mahindra Brothers, a jewellery store, uses smart cards to manage its employees and sub-contractors. The jeweller relies on smart cards to restrict admission to its jewellery polishing and design houses, says Krishna Prasad H.S., Product Marketing Manager, Systems, Security Technology Division, Bosch. A tuition provider for engineering studies in Mumbai is also taking the smart route. It has issued smart cards instead of ID cards to students availing of tuition. Previously, the provider faced discrepancies and defaulters. Many students would attend the wrong classes, or pursue extra tuition without deigning to register themselves. With smart cards, professors could keep a check on the attendance and the students, too, were able to manage their tuitions better. It also saved the tuition provider from further losses, says Anil Makhija, General Manager - Projects, CA Satyam ASP. Why it hasn't matured yet The perception of smart cards is that it is difficult or too costly to make changes to systems or to implement cost savings strategies. However, according to RSA Security, a provider of smart cards, they can be deployed throughout the organisation just as you would any other ID badge, without requiring process changes. There is a clear lack of information and tools to support decision making by Facility Managers, says T.V. Chandrashekar, Head - Sales (South India), Honeywell Building Solutions. "There is a high ongoing cost for maintaining installed systems, keeping up with technology and training staff, and integration of systems is also difficult. Systems don't operate in a way that supports how users want to run their business," he says. However, the advantages of installing them now are many, say early adopters. The backbone is established for future expansions, and integration with other building sub-systems such as Video Surveillance & Physical Security can be done easily. The tech road map is also established for subsequent expansion — Canteen, Library, E-Purse, RFID Systems, ERP Integration, etc. These are besides the primary advantage of smart cards enabling enterprises to assure their employees of enhanced safety and security. The use of smart card for access in office buildings is now a Rs 250-crore market in India. Applications of smart card in e-Governance (national ID card project) and credit cards are being hit by various challenges and issues, including bureaucracy and legacy infrastructure, says Makhija. It is learnt that the Bangalore-based ITI is bidding for the National ID card project, which will assign every Indian citizen a smart card for identification. Says Sourabh Kaushal, Industry Manager, ICT Practice, Frost & Sullivan India, "In 2005, the smart cards market was $66.6 million, showing a growth of 40.3 per cent over 2004, and is expected to reach $248 million by 2009."Also, industry reports indicate that India's installed base of smart cards is about 70 million, estimated to cross 400 million in 2012. preethij at thehindu.co.in From rahul_capri at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 05:27:38 2009 From: rahul_capri at yahoo.com (Rahul Asthana) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 15:57:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in Pakistan: Sethi In-Reply-To: <141684.36834.qm@web51412.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <549666.63683.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Yousuf, The reason why you find my post simplistic is the same reason why Najam Sethi's article makes so much sense to you-you try to rationalize the acts of the Pakistani state and try to equate it with India.Anyway,please read and respond to the whole of my post instead of picking a few sentences from here and there.Maybe you will also understand why Najam Sethi deserves dictatorship. Najam Sethi's version of events closely matches the desired narrative that the Pakistani state would want to propagate,both to Pakistani citizens and to the world.Lets go through them once again. Pakistan had border disputes with both its neighbors.In both cases it chose to create and nurture violent so called non-state actors as part of its terrorism based foreign policy.Taliban and LET have not fallen from the sky.They are not grass root movements.They were result of a conscious and systematic act by the Pakistan govt.If you have read the articles posted by me you would know that LET doesn't have Kashmiris and it is active in other countries too besides India.The direct result of such a policy is that relationship sores and the Army is able to dominate the national narrative. There was a ceasefire and talks were going on between Pakistan and India.Musharraf had given up power after intense pressure from inside and outside Pakistan.What do you think has been the result of the LET sponsored attacks? Pakistani army is not stupid.They know that India will not negotiate when faced by acts of terrorism.Even the country-less Palestinians refused to negotiate with the Isaraelis.There is no reason that India being the status quo power will negotiate in face of LET sponsored terrorism. This suits the army just fine.That is the very reason they will never cooperate with India in the investigation of the attacks.Recently report has been leaked that they are claiming that India framed the evidence. They can again play the Pakistani nation for Kashmir and occupy the dominant position in the political discourse of Pakistan. If the point Mr Sethi is making is that the non state actors in Pakistan are because of external factors,can he explain what the Taliban is doing in NWFP and FATA right now and why is the Pakistan army not taking it on?Why is the head of ISI making statements like the Taliban need their "freedom of expression"? The point is not that non-state actors have not been used by India,the point is that for Pak army its an existential issue.The creation of conflicts allows them to be at the top of the political food chain in Pakistan.If there had not been Kashmir,there would have been some other supposed raison d artre for LET. He further writes "A war between India > and Pakistan would hurt India more than Pakistan simply > because “ shining” India has more to lose than “ > failing” Pakistan," This is another disingenuous comment.Look at what Pakistan has come to.In the sixties it had a better growth rate than India, when India was still going through its socialistic experiment.The Pakistani army,however,has grown richer and richer.If Najam Sethi and the likes of him do not realize that the Pak Army and ISI are the root cause of the state Pakistan is in right now and continue to buy the bogey of India and Kashmir,then its fair to say that they deserves dictatorship. Thank you Rahul --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Yousuf wrote: > From: Yousuf > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in Pakistan: Sethi > To: "sarai list" , "Kumkum Chadha" , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 12:01 PM > Dear Rahul > To say that anybody "deserves dictatorship" is > itself a problematic statement. You are again trying to > understand very complex issues in simplistic manner. I think > some of Najam Sethi's write-ups make a lot of sense. I > am copying below another article from Mail Today which I > read a month ago. I found it an extremely sharp-focused view > on today's situation - reads like a good power-point > presentation: > > > A REGIONAL STRATEGY TO FIGHT TERROR > by Najam Sethi > 27 December 2008 > > THE bad news is that a private intelligence think tank in > the US has forecast war between India and Pakistan. The good > news is that this think tanks political risk assessments > have proven wrong more > often than right in the past. Even better is the constant > reassurance by the Indian prime minister, Dr. Manmohan > Singh, that war is not an option for either nucleararmed > country. Even so, Pakistans decision to remain on red alert > is wise. > But there is no point in drumming up international voices > like those of Interpol in support of Pakistans claim that > India has not provided sufficient evidence linking Mumbai to > Faridkot. The harsh fact is that the whole world — not > without some reason — believes that Pakistan is the “ > epicenter of terrorism”. Therefore it would be better for > the Pakistani government and military to do their best to > track down and halt the terrorist networks responsible for > regional mayhem. The alternative is international isolation > and sanctions. That said, everyone must recognize the three > main issues in the region, at the heart of which is the > Pakistani states relentless quest for "national > security". The first is Pakistan's refusal to > accept the LoC as the border with India because of the > simmering dispute over Kashmir. The second, which derives > from the first, is Afghanistan's refusal to accept the > Durand Line as the border with Pakistan. And the third, > which > derives from the second, is the conflict between the > US-led international community and Al-Qaeda- led Islamic > radical resistance based in Afghanistan and Pakistan's > tribal areas. > > All three are inter- related and have spawned non- state > actors to tilt the balance of power in the great game in the > region. > PAKISTAN'S unresolved dispute with India over Kashmir > has had nine disastrous consequences. > One, it has provoked war between the two states (as in 1965 > and 1971). Two, it has spawned non-state warring actors as > state proxies in time of peace ( by Pakistan in Indian > Punjab in the 1980s and Kashmir in the 1990s and by India in > Balochistan in the 1970s and 2000s). Three, the bitterness > over Kashmir has led to a proliferation of other disputes > over Siachin, Sir Creek, and now Baglair. Four, by virtue > of being a Soviet ally through much of the cold war, India > was encouraged to outflank Pakistan in Afghanistan, stop > Kabul from settling the Durand Line with Islamabad and > provoke Pashtun nationalism and separatism in the NWFP. > Five, when an opportunity arose to expel the Soviets from > Afghanistan in the 1980s, Pakistan readily joined hands > with the US to create non- state actors for the purpose of > staking its own claim in the 1980s. Six, after the Soviets > and Americans departed from Kabul, Pakistan and India > continued to slug it out in Afghanistan via proxies — > Pakistan through sections of the Pashtun Mujahidin and later > the > Pashtun Taliban, and India via the Uzbek- Tajik Northern > Alliance (NA). Seven, the scales in Afghanistan tilted in > favour of Pakistan when the Taliban seized control of Kabul > in 1997 and sent the NA packing to the north, and against > Pakistan after the Taliban cobbled an alliance with Al-Qaeda > and provoked America to react in 2001, emboldening India to > consolidate its stake with the NA- dominated and US- backed > Karzai regime. Eight, Pakistan was now compelled to turn a > blind eye to Taliban safe havens in its tribal areas in the > expectation that its old “assets” could be retained to > capture Kabul and thwart India after the exit of the > Americans from the region. Nine, this “ protection” to > the > Taliban has outraged America which has openly breached > Pakistans territorial sovereignty in order to put the > Al-Qaeda-Taliban down and precipitated a wave of anti- > American and anti- Indian religious nationalism in Pakistan. > > > The most significant consequence of Pakistan's > unresolved disputes with India is the rise of the Pakistani > military, at the expense of the civilians, as the > pre-eminent force in Pakistan's body politic based on > the notion of a national security state. The military has > created and sustained non- state religious actors both as a > means of undermining the > mainstream political parties to ensure its predominant role > in politics and as a tactical tool to keep India under > pressure to resolve Kashmir. > > This implies that without a resolution of the various > conflicts that bedevil India- Pakistan relations in Kashmir, > Quetta and Kabul, the non- state actors that have assumed > critical mass because of the intelligence agencies proxy > wars in the region, cannot be tracked and shut down, either > in Pakistan or India or Afghanistan. Conflict resolution > would also be the starting point for redressing the civil- > military imbalance within Pakistan that stops the militarist > national security state from transiting to a democratic > social security state. > > INDIA has had an aversion to multilateral diplomacy to > resolve its bilateral disputes in the region. But > bilateralism hasnt worked and disputes have become bleeding > wounds. Yet, when there has been conflict, both countries > have clutched at multilateralism to stop the downslide into > nuclear war, as during Kargil in 1999, LoC in 2002 and now > via the UNSCs directives to Pakistan to ban some non-state > actors. Therefore, a regional conflict- resolution approach > is the need of the hour to diffuse the Kashmir-Kabul-Quetta > time bomb. This should include America, Afghanistan, India > and Pakistan, along with their proxies like the Taliban and > the Northern Alliance. A high- profile American regional > envoy would facilitate the process, since both India and > Pakistan are on the right side of Washington for the first > time in history. India should start talking seriously to the > Kashmiris in Srinagar and resolve Siachin and Sir Creek > expeditiously. > > Pakistan must disband its non-state actors. America must > fashion a medium-term exit strategy from Kabul that > facilitates all ethnic stakeholders so that the Afghan > Pashtuns look towards Kabul and the Pakistani Pashtuns > towards Islamabad for their respective political salvation. > A holistic regional approach to conflict resolution is the > only route to ending the scourge of terrorism by non- state > actors and ensuring the survival and growth of > representative democracy in the region. A war between India > and Pakistan would hurt India more than Pakistan simply > because “ shining” India has more to lose than “ > failing” Pakistan, just as America has lost more than the > Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan by its reckless recourse > to war. > > The writer is the editor of The Friday Times > > > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Rahul Asthana > wrote: > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required > in Pakistan: Sethi > > To: "sarai list" > , "Kumkum Chadha" > , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 10:34 AM > > Najam Sethi writes... > > > > "Indeed, the truth is that > > > the whole > > > business of armed non- state actors in Pakistan, > and > > the > > > rise of > > > Military Inc in Pakistan, who are together the > bane of > > > democratic > > > Pakistan and India, is directly linked to the > > unresolved > > > Kashmir conflict." > > This line of reasoning is increasingly becoming > popular > > with Indian liberals like Arundhati Roy who have an > > obsession with blaming India even if it means > sacrificing > > logic and intellectual honesty. > > In Pakistani context it is more interesting.The > Pakistani > > establishment (read Pakistani army and ISI)has been > pedaling > > layers upon layers of bullshit to whip up a frenzy > against > > India, and Pakistani liberals like Najam Sethi are > eating it > > up. > > Please consider the following two points- > > 1-This is from the article I posted earlier- > > "The fact remains that the LeT, created by the > > Pakistani ISI in the 1980s, is not a Kashmiri group; > it is > > active not only in India, but in Chechnya, Sudan, and > in > > Britain, where Cruikshank resides. Moreover, there is > hardly > > a single Kashmiri in the LeT organization. Most of the > LeT > > members are Pakistanis from Punjab and the tribal > areas, in > > addition to a smattering of British Muslims. It is > unlikely > > that Cruikshank does not know these facts, yet he > chose to > > distort them, to make the point that Kashmir is what > keeps > > India and Pakistan at each other’s throats." > > > > 2-If LET,or the so called bastions of Kashmiri > independence > > are because of the Kashmir issue being > > unresolved,notwithstanding point #1, then what are the > > Taliban? Why did Pakistan nurture and train the > Talibans for > > so many years? > > > > This is why I have to say that Pakistanis like Najam > Sethi > > deserve dictatorship. > > > > Thank you > > Rahul > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Yousuf > > wrote: > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > Subject: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required > in > > Pakistan: Sethi > > > To: "sarai list" > > , "Kumkum > Chadha" > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 9:40 AM > > > PAKISTAN - INDIA: > > > > > > Mail Today, January 30, 2009 > > > > > > INDIA MUST SEND ACROSS A PEACE GROUP > > > by Najam Sethi > > > > > > A PEACE delegation comprising human and > women's > > rights > > > activists, media peaceniks and party political > > > representatives from Pakistan recently visited > New > > Delhi. > > > They went with a threefold objective: to > > "condole" > > > the Mumbai attacks and express solidarity with > Indians > > in > > > their hour of grief, to explain how and why > Pakistan > > too is > > > a victim of the same sort of terrorism that is > > threatening > > > to afflict India, and to try and put the peace > process > > and > > > people- to- people channel back on track. > > > > > > In view of the adverse travel advisories put out > by > > both > > > countries and > > > the war paint put on by both media, the > delegation > > risked > > > being > > > branded "unpatriotic" in Pakistan. But > the > > two > > > leaders of the delegation, Asma Jehangir, > chairperson > > of the > > > Human Rights Commission > > > of Pakistan, and Imtiaz Alam, Secretary- General > of > > the > > > South Asia > > > Free Media Association, are known as fearless > > crusaders in > > > the region > > > for doggedly promoting the cause of peace between > > India and > > > Pakistan. > > > Given the goodwill they personally enjoy in > India, > > they > > > threw caution > > > to the wind at home and embarked on their journey > > across > > > the border > > > with great expectations. > > > > > > In the event, however, even they were surprised > by the > > > consistently > > > frosty, sometimes hostile, reception that they > > received at > > > private, > > > official and media forums in Delhi. It seemed as > if > > all of > > > India, > > > public and private, had consciously united to > send out > > one > > > harsh > > > message to Pakistan: that India is deeply wounded > and > > will > > > not take > > > another such attack lying down. This is perfectly > > > understandable. > > > > > > THE terrorist attack was on the Taj Mahal Hotel, > the > > pride > > > and symbol > > > of resurgent modern India; it humiliated > India's > > " > > > powerful" security > > > establishment by exposing its gaping weaknesses; > and > > the > > > terrorists > > > targeted innocent civilians rather than any > specific > > > military or > > > intelligence organ of the state or government, > thereby > > > signaling their > > > intent to wage war on India, Indians, and indeed > the > > very > > > idea of > > > secular India. > > > > > > Therefore credit must be given to the Indian > > establishment > > > for showing > > > great restraint and maturity, unlike the reckless > way > > in > > > which America > > > reacted after 9/ 11. > > > > > > The post- Mumbai composite view in India has > three > > salient > > > elements. > > > First, they say that elements of the Pakistani > state > > were > > > allegedly > > > complicit in the planning, organisation and > > implementation > > > of the > > > attack, evidence of which is proffered in the > recorded > > > chatter of the > > > terrorists with their Pakistani handlers which > suggest > > that > > > this > > > message was deliberately meant to be given. The > > implication > > > of this, > > > as India's foreign minister has expressly > stated, > > is > > > that non- state > > > actors and state actors in Pakistan were jointly > > > responsible. Second, > > > they believe that the government of President > Asif > > Zardari > > > is innocent > > > but weak and Pakistan's military > establishment is > > > guilty and strong. > > > The implication of this is that there is no point > in > > India > > > talking to > > > a weak civilian government or strong military > > establishment > > > — because > > > both are part of the problem — about redressing > > terrorism > > > and > > > advancing the peace agenda. Third, they insist > that > > > Pakistan should > > > not mistake India's overt outrage and anger > as > > merely > > > election- > > > related histrionics and that it will be business > as > > usual > > > after the > > > elections are over in April. On the contrary, > they > > claim > > > there is a > > > consensus in India's state and society that > India > > must > > > align with the > > > international community and fashion a united > strategic > > > resolve to > > > compel Pakistan's state and society to > dismantle > > its > > > terrorist > > > infrastructure on pain of international > encirclement, > > > blockade and > > > sanctions. > > > > > > Unfortunately, however, India and Indians seemed > blind > > to > > > an equally > > > harsh reality about their own state and > themselves — > > that > > > terrorism is > > > not just Pakistan's problem but increasingly > > > India's too. This is not > > > because the origins of such terrorism lie > exclusively > > in > > > political > > > distortions within Pakistan but also because > India has > > had > > > a role in > > > creating conditions conducive to its growth by > > refusing to > > > resolve the > > > regional conflicts that spawn it. Indeed, the > truth is > > that > > > the whole > > > business of armed non- state actors in Pakistan, > and > > the > > > rise of > > > Military Inc in Pakistan, who are together the > bane of > > > democratic > > > Pakistan and India, is directly linked to the > > unresolved > > > Kashmir conflict. > > > > > > Equally, it is profoundly unrealistic for > India's > > > government to claim > > > that because the Zardari government in Pakistan > is > > weak, > > > there is no > > > one to talk to in Pakistan about how to get the > peace > > > process back on > > > track. New Delhi had five years of unfruitful > dialogue > > with > > > a strong > > > military- led government from 2003- 08 that was > ready > > to > > > think > > > outside- the- box and make unbelievable > concessions, > > > especially on > > > Kashmir, but was constantly thwarted by the > statusquo > > and > > > lumbering > > > Indian bureaucracy. > > > > > > INDIANS worry and warn about a second terrorist > attack > > on > > > their soil. > > > > > > But just as it is inevitable in one way or > another in > > the > > > future, so > > > too is India's likely response. " > Surgical > > > strikes" and " limited war" > > > may be " honourable" self- satisfying > > responses, > > > but they are not > > > realistic options between nuclear armed states. > Nor > > should > > > India think > > > of responding by manufacturing its own version of > > state- > > > non- state > > > actors to foment trouble in Pakistan. It will > only > > hurtle > > > the two > > > peoples and states into confrontation, make > > India's > > > problem more > > > intractable and hurt it disproportionately > because it > > has > > > more > > > economic and political sheen to lose than > Pakistan. > > > Equally, if all > > > other options are on the table for India in > alliance > > with > > > the > > > international community, including punitive > sanctions, > > > blockades and > > > Pakistan's total isolation, it should be > clear > > that > > > such an occurrence > > > will have disastrous consequences for > Pakistan's > > > tanking economy and > > > its equally fragile national unity. Fortunately, > the > > view > > > in > > > responsible quarters in India is that even this > > response, > > > all options > > > short of war, is undesirable because it will > plunge > > > Pakistan into > > > headlong failure. The hawks, on the other hand, > argue > > that > > > at least > > > India will have ensured that Military Inc. will > have > > only > > > the ruins of > > > Pakistan to preside over if they continue to > muddy the > > > waters. Thus > > > the debate continues. > > > > > > A peace delegation from India needs to visit > Pakistan > > now, > > > not to > > > explain why India is angry — that message lies > in > > the > > > domain of the > > > Pakistani delegation that has just returned from > Delhi > > — > > > but to > > > understand why the cause of its established > democratic > > > state and civil > > > society is the same as that of Pakistan's > > fledgling > > > counterparts. > > > > > > The writer is the editor of The Friday Times > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and > the > > city. > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in > the > > subject > > > header. > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From ysaeed7 at yahoo.com Sun Feb 1 09:00:50 2009 From: ysaeed7 at yahoo.com (Yousuf) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 19:30:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in Pakistan: Sethi In-Reply-To: <549666.63683.qm@web53605.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <583635.9753.qm@web51407.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Dear Rahul I agree with you (and even Sethi does) that Pakistani army and the ISI are the root cause of the situation and the terror in the region, but I thought that the historical reasons (which he points out) cannot also be ignored. I only mentioned Sethi's write-up because of the inter-relations he shows between various issues. I don't have much knowledge of Kashmir, but the history of how both Indian forces and Pakistan have exploited it cannot be seen disconnected from the situation of terror we have today, although it has acquired a different proportion today (and again India is not disconnected from it). There is no easy solution unless all those issues are addressed. But I'm still not convinced why anybody needs dictatorship. With that standard, even many Indians should be put under a dictator to get their acts right. Yousuf --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Rahul Asthana wrote: > From: Rahul Asthana > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required in Pakistan: Sethi > To: "sarai list" , "Kumkum Chadha" , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 5:27 AM > Dear Yousuf, > The reason why you find my post simplistic is the same > reason why Najam Sethi's article makes so much sense to > you-you try to rationalize the acts of the Pakistani state > and try to equate it with India.Anyway,please read and > respond to the whole of my post instead of picking a few > sentences from here and there.Maybe you will also understand > why Najam Sethi deserves dictatorship. > Najam Sethi's version of events closely matches the > desired narrative that the Pakistani state would want to > propagate,both to Pakistani citizens and to the world.Lets > go through them once again. > Pakistan had border disputes with both its neighbors.In > both cases it chose to create and nurture violent so called > non-state actors as part of its terrorism based foreign > policy.Taliban and LET have not fallen from the sky.They are > not grass root movements.They were result of a conscious and > systematic act by the Pakistan govt.If you have read the > articles posted by me you would know that LET doesn't > have Kashmiris and it is active in other countries too > besides India.The direct result of such a policy is that > relationship sores and the Army is able to dominate the > national narrative. > There was a ceasefire and talks were going on between > Pakistan and India.Musharraf had given up power after > intense pressure from inside and outside Pakistan.What do > you think has been the result of the LET sponsored attacks? > Pakistani army is not stupid.They know that India will not > negotiate when faced by acts of terrorism.Even the > country-less Palestinians refused to negotiate with the > Isaraelis.There is no reason that India being the status quo > power will negotiate in face of LET sponsored terrorism. > This suits the army just fine.That is the very reason they > will never cooperate with India in the investigation of the > attacks.Recently report has been leaked that they are > claiming that India framed the evidence. They can again play > the Pakistani nation for Kashmir and occupy the dominant > position in the political discourse of Pakistan. > If the point Mr Sethi is making is that the non state > actors in Pakistan are because of external factors,can he > explain what the Taliban is doing in NWFP and FATA right now > and why is the Pakistan army not taking it on?Why is the > head of ISI making statements like the Taliban need their > "freedom of expression"? > The point is not that non-state actors have not been used > by India,the point is that for Pak army its an existential > issue.The creation of conflicts allows them to be at the top > of the political food chain in Pakistan.If there had not > been Kashmir,there would have been some other supposed > raison d artre for LET. > He further writes > "A war between India > > and Pakistan would hurt India more than Pakistan > simply > > because “ shining” India has more to lose than “ > > failing” Pakistan," > This is another disingenuous comment.Look at what Pakistan > has come to.In the sixties it had a better growth rate than > India, when India was still going through its socialistic > experiment.The Pakistani army,however,has grown richer and > richer.If Najam Sethi and the likes of him do not realize > that the Pak Army and ISI are the root cause of the state > Pakistan is in right now and continue to buy the bogey of > India and Kashmir,then its fair to say that they deserves > dictatorship. > > Thank you > Rahul > > > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Yousuf > wrote: > > > From: Yousuf > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India Peace Group Required > in Pakistan: Sethi > > To: "sarai list" > , "Kumkum Chadha" > , rahul_capri at yahoo.com > > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 12:01 PM > > Dear Rahul > > To say that anybody "deserves dictatorship" > is > > itself a problematic statement. You are again trying > to > > understand very complex issues in simplistic manner. I > think > > some of Najam Sethi's write-ups make a lot of > sense. I > > am copying below another article from Mail Today which > I > > read a month ago. I found it an extremely > sharp-focused view > > on today's situation - reads like a good > power-point > > presentation: > > > > > > A REGIONAL STRATEGY TO FIGHT TERROR > > by Najam Sethi > > 27 December 2008 > > > > THE bad news is that a private intelligence think tank > in > > the US has forecast war between India and Pakistan. > The good > > news is that this think tanks political risk > assessments > > have proven wrong more > > often than right in the past. Even better is the > constant > > reassurance by the Indian prime minister, Dr. Manmohan > > Singh, that war is not an option for either > nucleararmed > > country. Even so, Pakistans decision to remain on red > alert > > is wise. > > But there is no point in drumming up international > voices > > like those of Interpol in support of Pakistans claim > that > > India has not provided sufficient evidence linking > Mumbai to > > Faridkot. The harsh fact is that the whole world — > not > > without some reason — believes that Pakistan is the > “ > > epicenter of terrorism”. Therefore it would be > better for > > the Pakistani government and military to do their best > to > > track down and halt the terrorist networks responsible > for > > regional mayhem. The alternative is international > isolation > > and sanctions. That said, everyone must recognize the > three > > main issues in the region, at the heart of which is > the > > Pakistani states relentless quest for "national > > security". The first is Pakistan's refusal to > > accept the LoC as the border with India because of the > > simmering dispute over Kashmir. The second, which > derives > > from the first, is Afghanistan's refusal to accept > the > > Durand Line as the border with Pakistan. And the > third, > > which > > derives from the second, is the conflict between the > > US-led international community and Al-Qaeda- led > Islamic > > radical resistance based in Afghanistan and > Pakistan's > > tribal areas. > > > > All three are inter- related and have spawned non- > state > > actors to tilt the balance of power in the great game > in the > > region. > > PAKISTAN'S unresolved dispute with India over > Kashmir > > has had nine disastrous consequences. > > One, it has provoked war between the two states (as in > 1965 > > and 1971). Two, it has spawned non-state warring > actors as > > state proxies in time of peace ( by Pakistan in Indian > > Punjab in the 1980s and Kashmir in the 1990s and by > India in > > Balochistan in the 1970s and 2000s). Three, the > bitterness > > over Kashmir has led to a proliferation of other > disputes > > over Siachin, Sir Creek, and now Baglair. Four, by > virtue > > of being a Soviet ally through much of the cold war, > India > > was encouraged to outflank Pakistan in Afghanistan, > stop > > Kabul from settling the Durand Line with Islamabad and > > provoke Pashtun nationalism and separatism in the > NWFP. > > Five, when an opportunity arose to expel the Soviets > from > > Afghanistan in the 1980s, Pakistan readily joined > hands > > with the US to create non- state actors for the > purpose of > > staking its own claim in the 1980s. Six, after the > Soviets > > and Americans departed from Kabul, Pakistan and India > > continued to slug it out in Afghanistan via proxies > — > > Pakistan through sections of the Pashtun Mujahidin and > later > > the > > Pashtun Taliban, and India via the Uzbek- Tajik > Northern > > Alliance (NA). Seven, the scales in Afghanistan tilted > in > > favour of Pakistan when the Taliban seized control of > Kabul > > in 1997 and sent the NA packing to the north, and > against > > Pakistan after the Taliban cobbled an alliance with > Al-Qaeda > > and provoked America to react in 2001, emboldening > India to > > consolidate its stake with the NA- dominated and US- > backed > > Karzai regime. Eight, Pakistan was now compelled to > turn a > > blind eye to Taliban safe havens in its tribal areas > in the > > expectation that its old “assets” could be > retained to > > capture Kabul and thwart India after the exit of the > > Americans from the region. Nine, this “ > protection” to > > the > > Taliban has outraged America which has openly breached > > Pakistans territorial sovereignty in order to put the > > Al-Qaeda-Taliban down and precipitated a wave of anti- > > American and anti- Indian religious nationalism in > Pakistan. > > > > > > The most significant consequence of Pakistan's > > unresolved disputes with India is the rise of the > Pakistani > > military, at the expense of the civilians, as the > > pre-eminent force in Pakistan's body politic based > on > > the notion of a national security state. The military > has > > created and sustained non- state religious actors both > as a > > means of undermining the > > mainstream political parties to ensure its predominant > role > > in politics and as a tactical tool to keep India under > > pressure to resolve Kashmir. > > > > This implies that without a resolution of the various > > conflicts that bedevil India- Pakistan relations in > Kashmir, > > Quetta and Kabul, the non- state actors that have > assumed > > critical mass because of the intelligence agencies > proxy > > wars in the region, cannot be tracked and shut down, > either > > in Pakistan or India or Afghanistan. Conflict > resolution > > would also be the starting point for redressing the > civil- > > military imbalance within Pakistan that stops the > militarist > > national security state from transiting to a > democratic > > social security state. > > > > INDIA has had an aversion to multilateral diplomacy to > > resolve its bilateral disputes in the region. But > > bilateralism hasnt worked and disputes have become > bleeding > > wounds. Yet, when there has been conflict, both > countries > > have clutched at multilateralism to stop the downslide > into > > nuclear war, as during Kargil in 1999, LoC in 2002 and > now > > via the UNSCs directives to Pakistan to ban some > non-state > > actors. Therefore, a regional conflict- resolution > approach > > is the need of the hour to diffuse the > Kashmir-Kabul-Quetta > > time bomb. This should include America, Afghanistan, > India > > and Pakistan, along with their proxies like the > Taliban and > > the Northern Alliance. A high- profile American > regional > > envoy would facilitate the process, since both India > and > > Pakistan are on the right side of Washington for the > first > > time in history. India should start talking seriously > to the > > Kashmiris in Srinagar and resolve Siachin and Sir > Creek > > expeditiously. > > > > Pakistan must disband its non-state actors. America > must > > fashion a medium-term exit strategy from Kabul that > > facilitates all ethnic stakeholders so that the Afghan > > Pashtuns look towards Kabul and the Pakistani Pashtuns > > towards Islamabad for their respective political > salvation. > > A holistic regional approach to conflict resolution is > the > > only route to ending the scourge of terrorism by non- > state > > actors and ensuring the survival and growth of > > representative democracy in the region. A war between > India > > and Pakistan would hurt India more than Pakistan > simply > > because “ shining” India has more to lose than “ > > failing” Pakistan, just as America has lost more > than the > > Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan by its reckless > recourse > > to war. > > > > The writer is the editor of The Friday Times > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Rahul Asthana > > wrote: > > > > > From: Rahul Asthana > > > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] India Peace Group > Required > > in Pakistan: Sethi > > > To: "sarai list" > > , "Kumkum > Chadha" > > , ysaeed7 at yahoo.com > > > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 10:34 AM > > > Najam Sethi writes... > > > > > > "Indeed, the truth is that > > > > the whole > > > > business of armed non- state actors in > Pakistan, > > and > > > the > > > > rise of > > > > Military Inc in Pakistan, who are together > the > > bane of > > > > democratic > > > > Pakistan and India, is directly linked to > the > > > unresolved > > > > Kashmir conflict." > > > This line of reasoning is increasingly becoming > > popular > > > with Indian liberals like Arundhati Roy who have > an > > > obsession with blaming India even if it means > > sacrificing > > > logic and intellectual honesty. > > > In Pakistani context it is more interesting.The > > Pakistani > > > establishment (read Pakistani army and ISI)has > been > > pedaling > > > layers upon layers of bullshit to whip up a > frenzy > > against > > > India, and Pakistani liberals like Najam Sethi > are > > eating it > > > up. > > > Please consider the following two points- > > > 1-This is from the article I posted earlier- > > > "The fact remains that the LeT, created by > the > > > Pakistani ISI in the 1980s, is not a Kashmiri > group; > > it is > > > active not only in India, but in Chechnya, Sudan, > and > > in > > > Britain, where Cruikshank resides. Moreover, > there is > > hardly > > > a single Kashmiri in the LeT organization. Most > of the > > LeT > > > members are Pakistanis from Punjab and the tribal > > areas, in > > > addition to a smattering of British Muslims. It > is > > unlikely > > > that Cruikshank does not know these facts, yet he > > chose to > > > distort them, to make the point that Kashmir is > what > > keeps > > > India and Pakistan at each other’s > throats." > > > > > > 2-If LET,or the so called bastions of Kashmiri > > independence > > > are because of the Kashmir issue being > > > unresolved,notwithstanding point #1, then what > are the > > > Taliban? Why did Pakistan nurture and train the > > Talibans for > > > so many years? > > > > > > This is why I have to say that Pakistanis like > Najam > > Sethi > > > deserve dictatorship. > > > > > > Thank you > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Yousuf > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > From: Yousuf > > > > Subject: [Reader-list] India Peace Group > Required > > in > > > Pakistan: Sethi > > > > To: "sarai list" > > > , "Kumkum > > Chadha" > > > > > > > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 9:40 AM > > > > PAKISTAN - INDIA: > > > > > > > > Mail Today, January 30, 2009 > > > > > > > > INDIA MUST SEND ACROSS A PEACE GROUP > > > > by Najam Sethi > > > > > > > > A PEACE delegation comprising human and > > women's > > > rights > > > > activists, media peaceniks and party > political > > > > representatives from Pakistan recently > visited > > New > > > Delhi. > > > > They went with a threefold objective: to > > > "condole" > > > > the Mumbai attacks and express solidarity > with > > Indians > > > in > > > > their hour of grief, to explain how and why > > Pakistan > > > too is > > > > a victim of the same sort of terrorism that > is > > > threatening > > > > to afflict India, and to try and put the > peace > > process > > > and > > > > people- to- people channel back on track. > > > > > > > > In view of the adverse travel advisories put > out > > by > > > both > > > > countries and > > > > the war paint put on by both media, the > > delegation > > > risked > > > > being > > > > branded "unpatriotic" in Pakistan. > But > > the > > > two > > > > leaders of the delegation, Asma Jehangir, > > chairperson > > > of the > > > > Human Rights Commission > > > > of Pakistan, and Imtiaz Alam, Secretary- > General > > of > > > the > > > > South Asia > > > > Free Media Association, are known as > fearless > > > crusaders in > > > > the region > > > > for doggedly promoting the cause of peace > between > > > India and > > > > Pakistan. > > > > Given the goodwill they personally enjoy in > > India, > > > they > > > > threw caution > > > > to the wind at home and embarked on their > journey > > > across > > > > the border > > > > with great expectations. > > > > > > > > In the event, however, even they were > surprised > > by the > > > > consistently > > > > frosty, sometimes hostile, reception that > they > > > received at > > > > private, > > > > official and media forums in Delhi. It > seemed as > > if > > > all of > > > > India, > > > > public and private, had consciously united > to > > send out > > > one > > > > harsh > > > > message to Pakistan: that India is deeply > wounded > > and > > > will > > > > not take > > > > another such attack lying down. This is > perfectly > > > > understandable. > > > > > > > > THE terrorist attack was on the Taj Mahal > Hotel, > > the > > > pride > > > > and symbol > > > > of resurgent modern India; it humiliated > > India's > > > " > > > > powerful" security > > > > establishment by exposing its gaping > weaknesses; > > and > > > the > > > > terrorists > > > > targeted innocent civilians rather than any > > specific > > > > military or > > > > intelligence organ of the state or > government, > > thereby > > > > signaling their > > > > intent to wage war on India, Indians, and > indeed > > the > > > very > > > > idea of > > > > secular India. > > > > > > > > Therefore credit must be given to the Indian > > > establishment > > > > for showing > > > > great restraint and maturity, unlike the > reckless > > way > > > in > > > > which America > > > > reacted after 9/ 11. > > > > > > > > The post- Mumbai composite view in India has > > three > > > salient > > > > elements. > > > > First, they say that elements of the > Pakistani > > state > > > were > > > > allegedly > > > > complicit in the planning, organisation and > > > implementation > > > > of the > > > > attack, evidence of which is proffered in > the > > recorded > > > > chatter of the > > > > terrorists with their Pakistani handlers > which > > suggest > > > that > > > > this > > > > message was deliberately meant to be given. > The > > > implication > > > > of this, > > > > as India's foreign minister has > expressly > > stated, > > > is > > > > that non- state > > > > actors and state actors in Pakistan were > jointly > > > > responsible. Second, > > > > they believe that the government of > President > > Asif > > > Zardari > > > > is innocent > > > > but weak and Pakistan's military > > establishment is > > > > guilty and strong. > > > > The implication of this is that there is no > point > > in > > > India > > > > talking to > > > > a weak civilian government or strong > military > > > establishment > > > > — because > > > > both are part of the problem — about > redressing > > > terrorism > > > > and > > > > advancing the peace agenda. Third, they > insist > > that > > > > Pakistan should > > > > not mistake India's overt outrage and > anger > > as > > > merely > > > > election- > > > > related histrionics and that it will be > business > > as > > > usual > > > > after the > > > > elections are over in April. On the > contrary, > > they > > > claim > > > > there is a > > > > consensus in India's state and society > that > > India > > > must > > > > align with the > > > > international community and fashion a united > > strategic > > > > resolve to > > > > compel Pakistan's state and society to > > dismantle > > > its > > > > terrorist > > > > infrastructure on pain of international > > encirclement, > > > > blockade and > > > > sanctions. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, however, India and Indians > seemed > > blind > > > to > > > > an equally > > > > harsh reality about their own state and > > themselves — > > > that > > > > terrorism is > > > > not just Pakistan's problem but > increasingly > > > > India's too. This is not > > > > because the origins of such terrorism lie > > exclusively > > > in > > > > political > > > > distortions within Pakistan but also because > > India has > > > had > > > > a role in > > > > creating conditions conducive to its growth > by > > > refusing to > > > > resolve the > > > > regional conflicts that spawn it. Indeed, > the > > truth is > > > that > > > > the whole > > > > business of armed non- state actors in > Pakistan, > > and > > > the > > > > rise of > > > > Military Inc in Pakistan, who are together > the > > bane of > > > > democratic > > > > Pakistan and India, is directly linked to > the > > > unresolved > > > > Kashmir conflict. > > > > > > > > Equally, it is profoundly unrealistic for > > India's > > > > government to claim > > > > that because the Zardari government in > Pakistan > > is > > > weak, > > > > there is no > > > > one to talk to in Pakistan about how to get > the > > peace > > > > process back on > > > > track. New Delhi had five years of > unfruitful > > dialogue > > > with > > > > a strong > > > > military- led government from 2003- 08 that > was > > ready > > > to > > > > think > > > > outside- the- box and make unbelievable > > concessions, > > > > especially on > > > > Kashmir, but was constantly thwarted by the > > statusquo > > > and > > > > lumbering > > > > Indian bureaucracy. > > > > > > > > INDIANS worry and warn about a second > terrorist > > attack > > > on > > > > their soil. > > > > > > > > But just as it is inevitable in one way or > > another in > > > the > > > > future, so > > > > too is India's likely response. " > > Surgical > > > > strikes" and " limited war" > > > > may be " honourable" self- > satisfying > > > responses, > > > > but they are not > > > > realistic options between nuclear armed > states. > > Nor > > > should > > > > India think > > > > of responding by manufacturing its own > version of > > > state- > > > > non- state > > > > actors to foment trouble in Pakistan. It > will > > only > > > hurtle > > > > the two > > > > peoples and states into confrontation, make > > > India's > > > > problem more > > > > intractable and hurt it disproportionately > > because it > > > has > > > > more > > > > economic and political sheen to lose than > > Pakistan. > > > > Equally, if all > > > > other options are on the table for India in > > alliance > > > with > > > > the > > > > international community, including punitive > > sanctions, > > > > blockades and > > > > Pakistan's total isolation, it should be > > clear > > > that > > > > such an occurrence > > > > will have disastrous consequences for > > Pakistan's > > > > tanking economy and > > > > its equally fragile national unity. > Fortunately, > > the > > > view > > > > in > > > > responsible quarters in India is that even > this > > > response, > > > > all options > > > > short of war, is undesirable because it will > > plunge > > > > Pakistan into > > > > headlong failure. The hawks, on the other > hand, > > argue > > > that > > > > at least > > > > India will have ensured that Military Inc. > will > > have > > > only > > > > the ruins of > > > > Pakistan to preside over if they continue to > > muddy the > > > > waters. Thus > > > > the debate continues. > > > > > > > > A peace delegation from India needs to visit > > Pakistan > > > now, > > > > not to > > > > explain why India is angry — that message > lies > > in > > > the > > > > domain of the > > > > Pakistani delegation that has just returned > from > > Delhi > > > — > > > > but to > > > > understand why the cause of its established > > democratic > > > > state and civil > > > > society is the same as that of > Pakistan's > > > fledgling > > > > counterparts. > > > > > > > > The writer is the editor of The Friday Times > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________ > > > > reader-list: an open discussion list on > media and > > the > > > city. > > > > Critiques & Collaborations > > > > To subscribe: send an email to > > > > reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > > the > > > subject > > > > header. > > > > To unsubscribe: > > > > > > https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > > List archive: > > > > > > > > > > <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 13:12:54 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 13:12:54 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Fwd: 1185] Against Dalit womenraj? ............. SUBHASH GATADE Message-ID: <47e122a70901312342j12379dc5l78acd2cb0849bcfc@mail.gmail.com> A recent study confirms that there is widespread violence against Scheduled Caste women panchayat leaders SUBHASH GATADE http://www.tehelka.com/story_main41.asp?filename=Ws070209dalit_woman.asp Recently, the Prime Minister participated in a programme organised to review the work of Panchayati Raj institutions at various levels. Apart from singing paeans about the success of this attempt at local governance he emphasised training of the representatives to make it more effective. But he avoided straying into stories of people like Sone Deyee, who are paying a heavy price for their participation in this bold experiment. Sone Deyee, 55, elected as a Sarpanch (reserved constitutency) from Ballabhgarh village, Bharatpur district, Rajasthan and her son Jal Singh, 20, have still not fully recovered from the brutal attack they were subjected to by the dominant Jat residents. In fact, the Jats wanted to teach Sone Deyee a lesson as she had refused to part with the muster rolls of labourers and records of public works executed during her tenure. Neither have the police registered a case under SC and ST (Prevention of atrocities) Act, 1989 nor the leaders of mainstream political parties bothered to pay attention to this case of miscarriage of justice. And the perpetrators of the attack are still roaming free. An added dimension to Sone Deyee's election pertains to the unceremonious exit of the previous occupant of the office, Hardeo Koli, who was similarly intimidated and thrashed by the same ruffians. A fact-finding team of dalit rights activists found that Hardeo Koli was blinded as a result of the thrashing by the accused. But can it be said that Sone Deyee's case in the 'novel experiment' of Panchayati Raj is an exception? One need not reiterate that, of late, this experiment in 'devolution of powers' has earned lot of praise in this part of South Asia. There is much talk of the 2.5 million representatives getting elected at various levels, and the impact it is said to be creating in devolution of powers. Celebrations apart, it cannot be denied that this experiment has not been able to address the internal incongruities arising out a societal setup mapped by caste, gender, community and class indices. Despite many instances of growing empowerment at the grassroots level, it is a sad commentary on the state of affairs that it has largely failed on this count. A study titled 'The State of Panchayats: 2007-2008' done by the Anand based 'Institute for Rural Management' (IRMA) rather reiterates this point. Submitted to the Prime Minister a few months ago, it is mentioned here in no ambiguous terms that sexual harassment and physical violence against women panchayat leaders belonging to Scheduled Caste households is 'widespread'. Underlining the continuing subjugation of dalits in social and economic spheres, despite the constitutional and legal provisions, it emphasises the discrimination and harassment faced by the Women Panchayat leaders belonging to Scheduled Caste category while discharging their public roles effectively ( Bias Runs Deep, says study - Hindustan Times, 27 th April 2008) This observation of the IRMA team reminds one of the tragic suicide of Urmila, an ex-Panchayat dalit women leader belonging to village Dularia, Betul, Madhya Pradesh (November 2007). In her suicide note, she revealed how she was raped twice by the son of the Panchayat chief for raising her voice over misappropriation of funds meant for village development. She further explained how despite repeated applications to the police, no action was taken against the perpetrators. Leave invoking SC-ST Act 1989, a first information report under one of the clauses of IPC was also not registered. In fact it took six long years for a mere report to be filed in the police station. Nobody was arrested for the crime. Frustrated over continued denial of justice and the connivance of the Panchayat head with the local police she decided to end her life. The first arrest in this case came only after her death. Even a cursory glance at newspaper reports suggests that travails and tribulations faced by dalt women Panchayat leaders like Urmila are no exception. A few days prior to Urmila's untimely death, Sumitra Devi's torture at the hands of the family members of the ex-Panchayat head had made headlines. Elected as a Panchayat head from a reserved constituency from Suratgarh, Ganganagar in Rajasthan, she was tied to a tree and beaten up by them. A dalit woman heading the Panchayat in village Beewai of Dausa (again Rajasthan) was not allowed to hoist the tricolour on 15 August. A few years ago, some concerned activists organised a public hearing of dalit women heading Panchayats in different parts of Rajasthan. These social activists later compiled the presentations in the form of a booklet which was titled 'Dalit Mahila Sarpanchon kee Kahani - Unaki Jubaani' (Stories of Dalit Women Panchayat Heads: In Their Own Words). It specifically noted that the the dalit women Panchayat leaders were exploited on three counts- being a woman, a dalit and poor.' Their experience had demonstrated that while dalits/women might have been able to get elected to different posts in the Panchayat because of the policy of affirmative action, the real goals of decentralisation of powers and empowerment were still a far cry. The experiences of the Panchayat leaders from Rajasthan rather corroborate what the IRMA report says. Woman Panchayat leaders face discrimination at the level of Panchayat at the hands of fellow members belonging to dominant castes and they are also subjected to humiliating treatment by the government officials in the department of rural development. The report rightly states "the provision of no-confidence motions is very deviously used to further dominate elected panchayat representatives from the SC category." Chhagibai from Rasoolpura, Ajmer a Panchayat head was the first lady to depose before the jury in the public hearing. She shared how the dominant caste members ganged up against her and removed her by bringing a no-confidence motion against her. They alleged that Chhagibai was not 'interested in development work' while she had enough proof about her initiative to start development work. The administration also remained a mute spectator. Kesan bai from Shergarh Panchayat was not even allowed to enter the Panchayat office when she got elected as head of the Panchayat. When somehow she managed to enter the office, she was not allowed to sit on the chair. Panchayat members belonging to the dominant castes tried to bring a no-confidence motion against her four times but since representatives belonging to scheduled category were in majority in the Panchayat they could not succeed in their venture. The IRMA report has suggested few measures to rectify the situation: that social justice committees be formed at various levels in the Panchayati Raj system, that the Panchayats headed by scheduled caste representative be given special grants by the Union ministry and the provision of no-confidence motion be amended suitably so that it is not misused. From indersalim at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 13:39:11 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 13:39:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 30, 000 mongoose hair brushes were for artists here and abroad Message-ID: <47e122a70902010009i3fd7f873o534d17458f305f39@mail.gmail.com> Dear All, A sad news, but killing nature for art is an age old practice. But there is hardly any indication of people's attitude going against such a practice. Ecology is an orphan, and in such a situation, i would be glad if Laskar or RSS adopt it boldly, but alas. Art discourses in art colleges dont discourage students from using these brushes, and so called great artists use them for creating master works still. It is a global problem. and to get rid of this ugliness hidden behind great master works, perhaps we need to change the ways of understanding- what Art is all about. May be some indifference to this problem leads our great artists to collect most expensive cars at the end of the successful carrier , and even dream a museum for their collection of Cars alongwith their painted canvasses with mongoose hair brushes. Yes, i am talking about MF Hussain 's latest shopping of 7.4 crore Bugatti Car which he thinks is a great sculpture. warmly inder salim here is the link http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Delhi/30000_mongoose_hair_brushes_seized_2_held/articleshow/4057990.cms NEW DELHI: The northeast district police, in collaboration with People for Animals (PFA), confiscated a large consignment of art brushes made out of mongoose hair on Saturday at a factory in the Bhajanpura area. The police also arrested two people in the case. According to Saurabh Gupta, wildlife officer from PFA, more than 30,000 brushes were confiscated each costing around Rs 3,000. They were a part of a consignment to be sent by road from Delhi to Mumbai. "Making these brushes requires absolute cruelty to animals. A mongoose is put in water boiling at a temperature of 100 degree Celsius and after it dies, it is further boiled in it for a few hours. Then, with a specialised machine, its skin and hair is removed and used for these brushes. Only 1-5 gram hair is recovered from one mongoose which makes it over a lakh mongoose slaughtered for this consignment alone,'' he said. He added that these brushes are made in Bijnor district's Sherkot area in Uttar Pradesh and are sold worldwide. "We had specific information about this consignment and informed the police about it," said Gupta. A senior police official confirmed this and said that two people were arrested red-handed while they were loading the consignment onto a truck. "The arrested accused are Pradip and Gama. The owner of the factory, Gulshan Jain, is absconding and a hunt for him is on. His factories in other parts of the city have also been earlier raided and similar cases are registered against him.'' A case under the Wildlife Protection Act has been registered and further investigations in the matter are on. -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 14:29:23 2009 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:29:23 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Prof. Ilina Sen will Inaugurate ViBGYOR 2009 Message-ID: <35f96d470902010059t221080ccrebdc1d8baa7191d@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends Greetings From ViBGYOR Film Collective Prof. Ilina Sen, wife of Dr. Binayak Sen inaugurates the 4th Edition of the ViBGYOR International Film Festival for short & documentary films at Sangeet Nataka Academy Campus, Thrissur on February 4th. Dr. Ilina Sen is an internationally known feminist scholar, human rights activist, a pacifist, an agronomist, a builder and manager of institutions committed to equitable and participative development, and an author. She is a professor of Gender Studies at Mahatma Gandhi Hindi University in Wardha, and manages an innovative NGO, Rupantar in the central Indian state of Chhattisgarh. Rupantar, set up by Ilina and her husband Dr. Binayak Senhouses programs including a village clinic in a falciparum malaria endemic area, an agricultural program focused on organic farming and preservation of indigenous biodiversity (e.g., of rice), program on food security and distribution systems, and several women's empowerment initiatives including resources for victims of domestic violence. Together, both Ilina and Binayak have worked for three decades among some of India's most impoverished and socially stigmatized populations (miners, peasants and India's indigenous groups) on issues of health, livelihood and civil liberties. They have also published several books in Hindi. On May 14, 2007, Dr. Binayak Sen was arrested in Raipur, under the controversial Chhattisgarh Special Public Security Act. Charges against him mostly focused on his official activities as general secretary of India's leading civil liberties organization, the People's Union of Civil Liberties (PUCL), visiting under-trial prisoners in the Raipur jail (to record their testimonies about health and treatment in prison), especially visits to individuals accused as "Naxalites" (the term for India's Maoists) and allegations that he "passed messages" to them. Dr. Sen. has denied all these charges categorically. In the past few months, several national and international protests and statements of concern have been reported, including a statement by 22 Nobel Laureates petitioning the government of India and Chhattisgarh to free Dr. Binayak Sen. Recently, Dr. Sen was recently awarded the prestigious Jonathan Mann award for Global Health and Human Rights for his services to poor tribal communities and his unwavering commitment to human rights. While Binayak remains in jail, Dr. Ilina Sen has co-coordinated his legal defense, been his publicist and liaison agent, raised funds, worked as a college teacher, and looked after the wellbeing and education of their two daughters. Ilina has made the journey to the US to receive the Jonathan Mann award on behalf of her husband and to present his case in person to the world at large. Now it's time for the 4th Edition of ViBGYOR International Short and Documentary Festival!. It's happening in 4th -8th of February 2009, at Thrissur, Kerala, India. Visit Festival Website for Move details http://www.vibgyorfilm.com About ViBGYOR ============ ViBGYOR celebrates different identities and the rich diversity of people, expressed in a festival of short and documentary films held every year in Thrissur, Kerala. The non-feature films showcased at ViBGYOR reveal the political energies of small communities and social movements that assert the heterogeneity of their identities and rootedness to their land, often fighting the haughtiness and ignorance of the establishment. With all its ambiguities and ambivalences, Identities and Diversity remains the key theme of the Festival. It covers the living experience of millions of people recorded by a set of skilled and committed documentary and short filmmakers from around the world. The four-day Film festival is not only a treat of brilliant films but an interface with filmmakers, activists, people's movement leaders, academicians, youth and common people from as divergent streams of life and activities. It includes talks, discussions, cultural programmes and informal exchanges ViBGYOR 2009 At A Glance ================== Dates: February 4th-8th, 2009 Venue: Sangeet Nataka Akademi Campus, Thrissur Focus 2009: FOOD sovereignty Retrospective: Shabnam Virmani, Ali Kazmi Region Focus: Pakistan Village ViBGYOR: in 5 panchayaths around Thrissur town, December 08-January 09. Campus ViBGYOR: in 5 colleges in and around Thrissur as curtain raiser National Conference: `Farm, Food and Fuel" February 4th, 10am-4pm Workshop: Documentary workshop for students, and members of film societies social organizations Film Packages ViBGYOR Package * Gender & Sexuality * Indigenous People * Dalit Reality * Fundamentalism v/s Diversity * Nation State * Globalisation * Region Focus : Pakistan Global Concerns * Human Rights * Migration * Health & HIV AIDS You can walk in to the Festival Venue on February4th and buy your Delegate Pass, 100/- for 5days (Rs.50/- for students) Come to ViBGYOR...Celebrate identities and diversity! Focus theme 2009: Food Sovereignty (Bakshya Swaraj) Organisors ======== Mazhavilmela-ViBGYOR International Film Festival is organised by ViBGYOR Film Collective, Chetana Media Institute (Thrissur), NOTTAM Traveling Film Festival , Navachitra Film Society, moving republic, CenSE, GAIA, and Visual Search In Partnership with The Other Media , INSAF, Vikas Adhyayan Kendra,National Adivasi Alliance, SICHREM & Human Rights Network, Orissa Development Action Forum (ODAF), Environmental Support Group(ESG), Visthar, Sangama, Focus on Global south, NESA, Labour Files, People's Watch and Kabani ~ Regards Anivar Aravind For ViBGYOR Film Collective From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 14:34:48 2009 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:34:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Ilina Sen will Inaugurate ViBGYOR 2009 Message-ID: <35f96d470902010104y213dead9r3458f04e27094129@mail.gmail.com> Dear Friends Greetings From ViBGYOR Film Collective Prof. Ilina Sen, wife of Dr. Binayak Sen inaugurates the 4th Edition of the ViBGYOR International Film Festival for short & documentary films at Sangeet Nataka Academy Campus, Thrissur on February 4th. Dr. Ilina Sen is an internationally known feminist scholar, human rights activist, a pacifist, an agronomist, a builder and manager of institutions committed to equitable and participative development, and an author. She is a professor of Gender Studies at Mahatma Gandhi Hindi University in Wardha, and manages an innovative NGO, Rupantar in the central Indian state of Chhattisgarh. Rupantar, set up by Ilina and her husband Dr. Binayak Senhouses programs including a village clinic in a falciparum malaria endemic area, an agricultural program focused on organic farming and preservation of indigenous biodiversity (e.g., of rice), program on food security and distribution systems, and several women's empowerment initiatives including resources for victims of domestic violence. Together, both Ilina and Binayak have worked for three decades among some of India's most impoverished and socially stigmatized populations (miners, peasants and India's indigenous groups) on issues of health, livelihood and civil liberties. They have also published several books in Hindi. On May 14, 2007, Dr. Binayak Sen was arrested in Raipur, under the controversial Chhattisgarh Special Public Security Act. Charges against him mostly focused on his official activities as general secretary of India's leading civil liberties organization, the People's Union of Civil Liberties (PUCL), visiting under-trial prisoners in the Raipur jail (to record their testimonies about health and treatment in prison), especially visits to individuals accused as "Naxalites" (the term for India's Maoists) and allegations that he "passed messages" to them. Dr. Sen. has denied all these charges categorically. In the past few months, several national and international protests and statements of concern have been reported, including a statement by 22 Nobel Laureates petitioning the government of India and Chhattisgarh to free Dr. Binayak Sen. Recently, Dr. Sen was recently awarded the prestigious Jonathan Mann award for Global Health and Human Rights for his services to poor tribal communities and his unwavering commitment to human rights. While Binayak remains in jail, Dr. Ilina Sen has co-coordinated his legal defense, been his publicist and liaison agent, raised funds, worked as a college teacher, and looked after the wellbeing and education of their two daughters. Ilina has made the journey to the US to receive the Jonathan Mann award on behalf of her husband and to present his case in person to the world at large. Visit Festival Website for More details http://www.vibgyorfilm.com About ViBGYOR ============ ViBGYOR celebrates different identities and the rich diversity of people, expressed in a festival of short and documentary films held every year in Thrissur, Kerala. The non-feature films showcased at ViBGYOR reveal the political energies of small communities and social movements that assert the heterogeneity of their identities and rootedness to their land, often fighting the haughtiness and ignorance of the establishment. With all its ambiguities and ambivalences, Identities and Diversity remains the key theme of the Festival. It covers the living experience of millions of people recorded by a set of skilled and committed documentary and short filmmakers from around the world. The four-day Film festival is not only a treat of brilliant films but an interface with filmmakers, activists, people's movement leaders, academicians, youth and common people from as divergent streams of life and activities. It includes talks, discussions, cultural programmes and informal exchanges ViBGYOR 2009 At A Glance ================== Dates: February 4th-8th, 2009 Venue: Sangeet Nataka Akademi Campus, Thrissur Focus 2009: FOOD sovereignty Retrospective: Shabnam Virmani, Ali Kazmi Region Focus: Pakistan Village ViBGYOR: in 5 panchayaths around Thrissur town, December 08-January 09. Campus ViBGYOR: in 5 colleges in and around Thrissur as curtain raiser National Conference: `Farm, Food and Fuel" February 4th, 10am-4pm Workshop: Documentary workshop for students, and members of film societies social organizations Film Packages ViBGYOR Package * Gender & Sexuality * Indigenous People * Dalit Reality * Fundamentalism v/s Diversity * Nation State * Globalisation * Region Focus : Pakistan Global Concerns * Human Rights * Migration * Health & HIV AIDS _______________________________________________ You can walk in to the Festival Venue on February4th and buy your Delegate Pass, 100/- for 5days (Rs.50/- for students) Come to ViBGYOR...Celebrate identities and diversity! Focus theme 2009: Food Sovereignty (Bakshya Swaraj) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Organisors ======== Mazhavilmela-ViBGYOR International Film Festival is organised by ViBGYOR Film Collective, Chetana Media Institute (Thrissur), NOTTAM Traveling Film Festival , Navachitra Film Society, moving republic, CenSE, GAIA, and Visual Search In Partnership with The Other Media , INSAF, Vikas Adhyayan Kendra,National Adivasi Alliance, SICHREM & Human Rights Network, Orissa Development Action Forum (ODAF), Environmental Support Group(ESG), Visthar, Sangama, Focus on Global south, NESA, Labour Files, People's Watch and Kabani ~ Regards Anivar Aravind For ViBGYOR Film Collective http://2009.vibgyorfilm.com From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 14:56:17 2009 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 14:56:17 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] ViBGYOR 2009 Programme Highlights Message-ID: <35f96d470902010126k3848e7bem8e2db4ed78fcb776@mail.gmail.com> *PROGRAMME HIGHLIGHTS* Workshop-cum- Film Festival: *Mass Communication for Masses* Tuesday, February 3-Sunday, February 8 *Organic Farm & Food Fair:* February 4-8, 10am-6pm *National Conference on `Food Sovereignty'* Wednesday, February 4, 10am-4pm (Kamla Bhasin, Dr. Prasada Rao, Satheesh Garu, and others) *Festival Inauguration: * February 4, 5.30pm Dr. Ilina Sen, Dean , School of Culture, Mahatma Gandhi International Hindi University, Wardha *Film Screenings & Activities * February 5-8 9am-1.00pm: Film Screenings 1.30-4.30: Open Forum & Mini Conferences 4.30-9.30: Screenings Mini Conference: February 5, 2.30-4.30 *Communal and Secular polities: Responses to terrorism, stereotyping and genocide * (S.P.Udayakumar, Shabnam Hashmi, Kamla Bhasin and others, organized in collaboration with VAK, Mumbai)) *Kabir Sandhya* (Kabirpanth): February 5, 7pm Mini Conference: February 6, 2.30-4.30 *Dravidian Ethnicity politics in South Asian context* (Siritunga Jayasuriya, Jagdish, Priwiraj SM and others) Workshop & Practical Demos: February 7-8, 10.30am-4.30pm *Community Radio Workshop* Mini Conference & Panel Discussion: February 7, 2.30-4.30 *Threats to Livelihood and People's basic rights (tribal/dalits/minorities)* : organized by SICHREM (Siritunga Jayasuriya, Jagdish, Pritwiraj SM and others) *FREE Binayak Sen Campaign: *February 8, 1.30pm-4.30pm (Satya Sivaraman, K.P.Sasi, Ajay T.G and others) Valedictory Function: Sunday, February 8, 5.30pm More Detials at http://2009.vibgyorfilm.com Anivar Aravind ViBGYOR Film Collective From vashsand at hotmail.com Sun Feb 1 15:39:54 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 11:09:54 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood Message-ID: Dear Taha U said Lashkar change of name to JUD triggered ur intrest as ur intrested in question of identity. its could have been valid point if that change of name was brought about internal evolution only and not triggered by Pakistani state halfheartedly banning Lashkar under international preasure. Otherwise i think question of identity(along with culture)is one of the biggest post modren fuckups where every idioit who might not be able to spell it parades with it on his/hers chest and all liberal anthropoligsts etc hailing him/her until this phenomenon was restricted to miniorites both sexual and ethnic/religious, women.. it seemed quite harmless, we all r for liberation of opressed etc. but this identity disese aint restricted to opressed, suddenly so called dominant groups start playing this game hindu, white, muslim, jewish supremacy..making these socalled post modern intelligensia to scream in impotence. As far as im concerned none of these opressed or opresseors r really serious about anything except this spectacle keeps moving on who knows tommorow butcher from gujrat will start parding their hidden transvite opressed identies and demand justice. So have some beer /wine and enjoy. history of humanity is full of masscares so its nothing new, mass muders with sense and understanding of identity arent any better than without sense or understanding of it. Cheers Sandeep _________________________________________________________________ Show them the way! Add maps and directions to your party invites. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/events.aspx From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Feb 1 18:51:09 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 13:21:09 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65be9bf40902010521v8475c11gaabfb2135d79a319@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sandeep Thank you for your response. I find your argument compelling not because of its tone of resignation or because it suggests an epicurean view to engage with the social world but because in your argument I feel an urge to let go the dominant ideas of the day and move on. There is of course nothing wrong in following a line of thinking where one consciously rejects any exercise to interpret dominant ideas in order to generate new forms of meaning instead take these ideas as given and carrying on with one's life. However, in my view and my sensibility as a researcher, which is very limited and limiting field in many ways, I would rather invest as much time and energy as I could in investigating these ideas, while suspending judgment and making new meaning. The reason being, it think, it is a worthwhile time-pass to inquire into the relationship between a man and his environment. This is not to compare it with or negate an epicurean view that you so lucidly suggests but to assert that an inquiry into ideas is not unworthy at all. In this regard if we view our life as a journey in a sea of ideas, the current of identity attracts me the most. This current, must I add, is a strong current, a deep current and a current which seems to be moving a lot of other ideas of this day. From what ever little I have inquired into the origins of this current, I have come up with no clear answer. We as a human race have existed for over five thousand years. Many people have come and gone in this time. Some of them when they were alive took time off from drinking beer to think and reflect on this current of identity. But still we do not have a clear picture as to how this current originated, evolved and turned into this great force which seems to sweeping us all. If there is fundamental conceptual confusion on hand, on the other there seems to be a superficial confidence on part of the national governments and the corporates regarding identity. And it seems that in pursuit of harnessing profit and power they have found two legitimizing arguments- one is poverty and the other is (in)security. We all know how callous any form of power is when it comes to servicing the needs of the most vulnerable sections of a society, hence instead of diverting our money which it takes taxes, to make sure that poorest of the poor get two square meals of food a day, power of the day is indulging in new excuses, like now it wants everyone to be fingerprinted to be identified as its own. What does this tells us-firstly, does power thinks that all of us are criminals? because finger printing till yesterday was only done on criminals and secondly, even after repeatedly carrying out identification exercises for over last one hundred and thirty years, power is not able to either comprehensively conjecture or comprehensively speculate about the nature of identity. I find it amusing as I do not understand why there seems to be so much of faith in a smart id card to deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now because we do not know what the 'I' in MNIC stands for or what 'id' in a smart id card means. Imagine this- Picture our nation as a body. Now this body is afflicted with twin diseases-poverty and (in)security. Imagine the market (the corporates, the MNC's, the producers and manufacturers) as an expert. Like a doctor. Now this doctor tells the patient to take a drug, in this case, it is a smart id card. The person whose body it is takes this drug trusting the doctor. The doctor takes his fee and scoots off. Now you tell me what will happen to the body, if the drug is made of some known and some unknown chemicals? Will the body react favourably to such a treatment? or Will the body look forward to more such doses? Just think about it. We can always have more conversations on this. Warm regards Taha From vashsand at hotmail.com Sun Feb 1 20:24:01 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 15:54:01 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Message-ID: Identity poltics can be good time pass or resersch project if the point is to expose their hollowness without mercy and tolerence of stupidities of these actors whether oppressed or wannabe oppressed. As far as i think both oppressed and oppressors when they play identity game they want to change Supreme opressors, and do nothing about social inequality, democratic rights etc. In other words every oppressed mniority wants a space where it can oppress others. Israel and pakistan r great example of this game. As far as national id cards hehehe they will give state bit better control and their production,distribution etc will creat lot of jobs thus reducing both poverty and insecurity LOL Enjoy the spectacle _________________________________________________________________ Drag n’ drop—Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live™ Photos. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/photos.aspx From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Sun Feb 1 21:14:09 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 15:44:09 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <65be9bf40902010744o672c4e93h24c52cf23d207b64@mail.gmail.com> Dear Sandeep Thank you for your mail. You mention- identity politics can be good time pass or research project if the point is to expose their hollowness without mercy and tolerance of stupidities of these actors whether oppressed or wannabe oppressed. I agree to this view but there can additional interpretations also, like the objective of the research could be to generate knowledge on any proposed co-relationships. In this instance, we are asked to believe that exists a relationship between a person and all those properties which signify him. We are asked to believe that this basket of signifiers has a name i.e. identity. We are further asked to believe that all those properties that encompass this name can be measured. >From what I have gathered I have not yet come across a satisfactory explanation of this measurement. On the contrary all existing equations of measurement are arbitrary and prone to human error. The rhetoric of identity cards is sleek and sophisticated. The government and other agencies both in the private and public domain are indulging in a huge public relations exercise to market this technology as the ultimate solution. I have my doubts with respect to the fundamental definition of identity and identification process. I believe these doubts are valid. A survey of literature made available in the public domain by the Government of India do not allay any fears or uncertainties with respect to these doubts. The literature in form of parliamentary debates, questions asked in the Lok Sabha and in Rajya Sabha in the last ten years, policy statements, planning commission reports, notices, reports produced by eminent management institutes like Indian Institute of Management at Ahmedabad, press briefings neither expound or explicate any satisfaction definition or imagination of identity. Amongst these deep abysses of angularity I see mountains of certainty and confidence in so far as public posturing of the government and private sector is concerned. I wonder why is no one asking any questions? Regarding your second point- As far as national id cards hehehe they will give state bit better control and their production,distribution etc will create lot of jobs thus reducing both poverty and insecurity LOL I completely agree with you that an investment in production and distribution will create jobs. But it seems to me that the underlying assumption in this argument is, Government must not shy from investing money, even if it of the tune of 27000 crores, in all exercises which create jobs. If that is so, then being a third world country, being a poor nation where farmers are still committing suicides, where almost six lakh people are still working as manual scavengers, why is our Government not looking at the good of these people who belong to the most vulnerable sections of our society. The question we need to ask with respect to the proposed redistribution of money in favor of all those companies who are going to produce and distribute these unclear measures of identity is: Is this transfer of money just? Is this a just re-distribution? Will the poorest of the poor not get harmed or deprived of what is rightfully theirs by this transfer? What is the opportunity cost of 27000 crores? How can this money be deployed elsewhere to garner greater social capital? Regards Taha On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 2:54 PM, Sandeep wrote: > > Identity poltics can be good time pass or resersch project if the point is > to expose their hollowness without mercy and tolerence of stupidities of > these actors whether oppressed or wannabe oppressed. As far as i think both > oppressed and oppressors when they play identity game they want to change > Supreme opressors, and do nothing about social inequality, democratic rights > etc. In other words every oppressed mniority wants a space where it can > oppress others. Israel and pakistan r great example of this game. > > As far as national id cards hehehe they will give state bit better control > and their production,distribution etc will creat lot of jobs thus reducing > both poverty and insecurity LOL > > Enjoy the spectacle > _________________________________________________________________ > Drag n' drop—Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live™ Photos. > > http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/photos.aspx > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 10:03:56 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 10:03:56 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] The evidence of use of Silk Indus Valley ... Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902012033w33b6364dqb639b025937c7be8@mail.gmail.com> http://sites.google.com/site/kalyan97/silk New evidence for early silk in the Indus civilization â€" IL Good, JM Kenoyer, RH Meadow (2009) http://www.scribd.com/doc/11508384/Indussilk The pieces of evidence for silk in Harappa and Chanhudaro are from threads to connect beads or bangle fragments. http://sites.google.com/site/kalyan97/silk/ScreenShot270.bmp?attredirects=0Fig. 3 Copper or copper-alloy wire ornament from Harappa c. 2200 BCE revealing intact thread. Photograph by JM Kenoyer. http://sites.google.com/site/kalyan97/silk/ScreenShot271.bmp?attredirects=0 Fig. 6 Steatite (enstatite) microbead from Chanhu-daro showing slightly 'S' twisted single-ply thread. Photomicrograph by I. Good and R. Newman [Note BC has been changed to BCE; AD has been changed to CE] Silk is an important economic fibre, and is generally considered to have been the exclusive cultural heritage of China. Silk weaving is evident from the Shang period c.1600â€"1045BCE though the earliest evidence for silk textiles in ancient China may date to as much as a millennium earlier. Recent microscopic analysis of archaeological thread fragments found inside copper-alloy ornaments from Harappa and steatite beads from Chanhu-daro, twoimportant Indus sites, have yielded silk fibres, dating toc.2450â€"2000BCE. This study offers the earliest evidence in the world for any silk outside China, and is roughlycontemporaneous with the earliest Chinese evidence for silk. This important new finding brings into question the traditional historical notion of sericulture as being an exclusivelyChinese invention. BACKGROUND The Indus Civilization, c. 2800â€"1900 bce, was one of the great urban riverine civilizations of the ancient world. Current understanding of this cultural phenomenon is that it emerged out of earlier diverse, regional cultures that interacted with each other economically and socially. Settlements of the Indus Civilization spread over a vast area, centred on the Indus and Ghaggar-Hakra river systems of Pakistan and northern India. >From the Himalaya and Hindu Kush to the coastal regions of Kutch and Gujarat, westward into Baluchistan and eastward into northwestern India, sites identified with the Indus Civilization are distributed across an area larger than that of Mesopotamia or of Egypt. Harappa, a settlement near the river Ravi in what is now Punjab Province of Pakistan, was the first of the Indus cities to be discovered (Vats 1940). For more than a century excavations have been carried out in the eponymous city (for a recent overview, see Possehl 2002; see also Kenoyer 1998). The florescence of the Indus culture (2600â€"1900 bce) is sometimes designatedMature Harappa . More than a few enigmas concerning the Indus Civilization still vex archaeologists, not least of which is the lack of substantive evidence for reciprocal exchange of commodities with Mesopotamia, where Indus-produced luxury materials such as etched and long biconical carnelian beads were found in the Early Dynastic III period royal graves at Ur (Zettler and Horne 1998). Recent work at Harappa (e.g., Meadow and Kenoyer 2005, 2008) has been carried out by the Harappa Archaeological Research Project (HARP), directed by Richard H. Meadow (Harvard University), Jonathan Mark Kenoyer (University of Wisconsin at Madison), and Rita P. Wright (New York University) in collaboration with the Department of Archaeology and Museums of the Government of Pakistan. A new study of artefacts recovered from the 1999 and 2000 seasons at the site has revealed the presence of silk. The silk is not degummed but contains sericin-coated twinned brins, or filaments, of fibroin. Micromorphological study indicates that the silk derived from wild silkmoth species rather than Bombyx mori . To assess the culture-historical significance of these new silk finds we take into account several wild silkmoth species known to South Asia, understanding that the real nature and extent of sericulture in antiquity is at present unknown. It has been assumed that the wild ancestor to the Chinese silkmoth, Bombyx mandarina (Moore) was domesticated into the well-known (and only domesticated) insect B. mori in China (Kuhn 1982; Chang 1986), although B. mandarina (Moore) is also native to South Asia. The earliest evidence to date for silk in China comes from an isolated find possibly as early as c. 2570 Bce from the Liangzhou Neolithic site of Qianshanyang (Zhou 1980; see also Vainker 2004; Good, forthcoming). There is evidence for silk from a bead thread at Nevasa in peninsular India c. 1500 bce (Gulati 1961; see also Good 1995; Janaway and Coningham 1995). This new evidence of silk from both the recent excavations at the site of Harappa and from the Chanhu-daro collection curated at the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston, indicates that silk threads were being produced nearly a millennium earlier than the Nevasa finds, and were being used in more than one Indus settlement during the height of Indus urbanism. This new discovery of silk in the Indus Valley pushes back the earliest date of silk outside of China by a millennium and is roughly contemporaneous with the earliest evidence for silk from within China. Not only has early evidence for silk been assumed to be limited to China, but the techniques of degumming and reeling have also been considered exclusive Chinese silk industry 'secrets'. The process of degumming is one in which the sericin gum is removed from the silk, by submerging the cocoons into a weak alkaline solution. Reeling silk is a process by which the long silk strands (gummed or not) are collected on to a bobbin rather than needing to be twisted as short segments into a spun thread. These two important silkworking processes have been thought to be part of a 'package' of Chinese technology known only to China until well into the early centuries ce, although the evidence presented here indicates that wild Antheraea silks were also known and used in the Indus area as early as the mid-third millennium bce, and that reeling was practised. The implication of evidence for silk reeling is that the silkmoth was stifled, leaving the cocoon intact in order to be unravelled. When wild silk cocoons are collected on the ground, usually after the silkmoth has eaten its way out, the remaining silk fibres must be spun rather than reeled, as they are short. Specific contributions of the present paper include discussion of new silk finds from Harappa and Chanhu-daro along with SEM imaging of modern wild specimens of Antheraea assamensis and A. mylitta silk… RESULTS Harappa In the course of excavations on Mound E at Harappa in 1999, a hollow copper or copper- alloy bangle fragment (H1999/8863-2) was recovered from domestic debris that dates to Period 3C (c. 2200â€"1900 cal bce). Preserved fibre forming a thread was found inside the hollow portion of the bangle. The thread samples removed comprise two fragments: one was recovered in disintegrated condition (designated 'A') and the other still retained some thread structure ('B'). These two samples are of the same thread, and are composed uniformly of the same type of fibre. Partial mineralization and fibre disintegration hampered a simple and straightforward identification of thread sample H99/8863-2. The thread itself is a slightly 'S' twisted (at about10°), two-plied thread with approximately 60â€"75 'Z'-spun strands in each ply. Scanning electron micrographic survey at high resolution (1000 magnification and above) of various sites on both sample fragments 'A' and 'B' allowed morphological determination of fibres to be silk, and further determination of silk from the A. assamensis species (see Table 1 and Figs 1 and 2). A second thread sample from Harappa (H2000/2242-1 lab 2000â€"1955) was recovered in the 2000 field season. It was found preserved inside a coiled wire ornament made of native copper or of a copper-alloy that was recovered from debris on the floor of a structure dating to late Period 3A or early Period 3B (c. 2450 cal bce). The ornament appears to be some sort of necklace made up of two strands of coiled wire strung with silk thread. This sample is also of a wild Antheraea silk, but appears to be from a different species, A. mylitta , as it has a distinctive striated fibre (Figs 3â€"5). The particular morphological characteristics of each type of silk are due to the unique shape of the silkworm's orifice when ejecting fibroin during cocooning. In this case, striations are characteristic of A. mylitta silk. These two species are indigenous to South Asia. A. assamensis is found in the high altitudes of the northeastern subcontinent, And A. mylitta is found along the tropical west coastal region. However, both regions are at a considerable distance from the Indus Valley… Chanhu-daro Chanhu-daro is another significant site of the Indus Civilization, located on the west bank of the river Indus in what is now Sindh province of Pakistan. Chanhu-daro was excavated in the winter of 1935â€"36 by the first American Archaeological Expedition to India directed by Ernest Mackay and sponsored by of the American Oriental Society and the Boston Museum of Fine Arts (Mackay 1943). A recent survey of excavated small finds (principally copper or copperalloy artefacts such as razors and bowls) currently in the Boston MFA collections revealed several objects with either textile 'pseudomorph' or actual extant textile adhering to surfaces of objects. One object, a heat-fused cluster of microbeads made of enstatite (heated magnesium silicate, perhaps in the form of steatite) found inside a copper or copper-alloy bowl, had been published in Mackay's report (plate LXXIV, object 2391). The microbeads contained therein (object 2391B) were noted to include intact thread remains (see Figs 6 and 7). The object dates somewhere between 2450 and 2000 bce . Microbead and thread samples from this object from Chanhu-daro were removed and analysed. The thread consists of a single ply of approximately 40â€"50 strands, with a slight 'S' twist (approximately 12â€"15°). Fibres from the thread were studied under SEM at 20 kVwithout sputtercoating. They appear partially gummed and partially twinned, characteristic of a reeled (but not degummed) silk. It is not certain at this stage of research from which species of silkmoth these fibres derived. The fibres may be from A. assamensis or possibly from a species of Philosamia (Eri silk)… DISCUSSION The formal exportation of silk from China took place around 119â€"115 bce during the reign of Han Emperor Wu-ti, who sought the fabulous blood-sweating 'celestial horses' of Ferghana (in modern day Uzbekistan). Yet archaeologists have puzzled over the early presence of silk in a late prehistoric Celtic site in Germany C . 700 bce , as well as silk finds from several other sites in Europe, the Mediterranean, Egypt and Central Asia (see, for example, Richter 1929; Hundt 1971; Askarov 1973; Wild 1984; Braun 1987; Lubec et al. 1993). For decades, archaeologists have cited these findings as evidence for early contact between China and the West (for full discussion see Good 1995; see also Good in press). What has not been adequately considered in the literature, however, is the possibility that a non-Chinese (and de facto wild) species of silkworm that produced workable silk was known and used in antiquity, and that the rare instances of silk that have been discovered far outside of China, and that date to before Wu-ti's trade relationship with the West began, may have, in fact, been produced indigenously or imported from regions other than China. The evidence presented here now suggests that early sericulture did in fact exist in South Asia and was roughly contemporaneous with the earliest known silk use in China. CONCLUSIONS This research offers new insight on the extent and antiquity of sericulture. Specifically, these finds indicate the use of wild indigenous silkmoth species in South Asia as early as the mid-third millennium bce. Careful morphological study of highly degraded fibres through images derived from scanning electron microscopy allows subtle but distinct and diagnostic features of fibre surface and fibre shaft morphology to aid in moth species identification. At least two separate types of silk were utilized in the Indus in the mid- third millennium bce. Based on SEM image analysis there are two thread forms in the samples from Harappa, which appear to be from two different species of silkmoth (Antheraeasp.). The silk from Chanhudaro may be from yet another South Asian moth species Philosamia spp. (Eri silk). Moreover, this silk appears to have been reeled. The variety in type, technology and thread forms of these few rare examples of silk offers us a glimpse into the extent of knowledge about sericulture in the Indus Civilization during the Mature Harappan phase. This knowledge helps to explain other early instances of silk in Eurasia outside of China, specifically from the mid-second millennium bc Deccan Peninsula of India (Gulati 1961) and contemporaneously in Bactria (Askarov 1973). By careful analysis of archaeological silk fibre surface morphology, one can distinguish between the source silkworm species. Through this type of study we can also begin to better understand the origins of silk use further to the East. The discoveries described here demonstrate that silk was being used over a wide region of South Asia for more than 2000 years before the introduction of domesticated silk from China. Earlier models that attribute the origins of silk and sericulture exclusively to China need to be re-examined and revised. NOTE Ages employed in this article for Harappa and Indus Civilization sites are based on calibrated radiocarbon dates, of which more than 100 come from Harappa. Other dates are those current in the literature… Meadow and Kenoyer excavated the Harappa materials and identified samples with threads. Kenoyer conducted preliminary analyses on Harappa threads (the results of which are referred to in Kenoyer 2003, 2004). Meadow and Kenoyer provided Harappa samples to Good, who analysed and identified the threads both from Harappa and from Chanhu- daro. Good wrote the article, with contributions on Indus archaeology from Kenoyer and Meadow, and produced the images and figures, except Figures 3 and 4. [Source: Good, I.L., JM Kenoyer and RH Meadow, 2009, New evidence for early silk in the Indus civilization, Archaeometry, 50,00 (2009), Univ. of Oxford] Some glosses related to silk: See at http://sites.google.com/site/kalyan97/silk From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 10:04:57 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 10:04:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] India has become the " Sponge " that protects West against Terrorism Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902012034u410f29f4vde50a2e531109160@mail.gmail.com> QUOTE: India has become the "sponge" that was protecting the United States and the West from the terror campaign of Lashkar-e-Tayiba and is absorbing most of the blows unleashed by terrorist groups in Pakistan. LeT, which has been blamed for the Mumbai attacks, remains a terrorist organisation of genuinely global reach and represents a threat to regional and global security, second only to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda. Tellis, a Senior Associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, made these remarks while testifying before the Senate committee on homeland security and governmental affairs on Wednesday on the November 26 terrorist attacks in Mumbai and their consequences for the US. "India has unfortunately become the sponge that protects us all. India's very proximity to Pakistan, which has developed into the epicenter of global terrorism during the last 30 years, has resulted in New Delhi absorbing most of the blows unleashed by those terrorist groups that treat it as a common enemy along with Israel, the United States, and the West more generally," he said. Tellis said the Barack Obama administration should keep Pakistan's feet to the fire and ensure that Islamabad makes good on its promises to take on terrorist groups. Washington should also demand more of Islamabad precisely because the LeT threatens to become a significant global terrorist threat, he said, adding, the US should insist that Islamabad roll up and eliminate the entire LeT infrastructure of terrorism that currently exists inside of Pakistan. Tellis also termed India's response to the Mumbai attack as inadequate and suggested that New Delhi should set up a body on the lines of America's national counter-terrorism centre and take US help. Tellis said since the launch of the global war on terror post 9/11, Inter-Services Intelligence's assistance to LeT has become more recessed but it has by no means ended, even though the organisation was formally banned by then Pakistans president Pervez Musharraf on January 12, 2002. Throwing light on LeT's links with Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence, Tellis said the terror group has received strong financial, material, and operational support from Pakistan's powerful spy agency -- including from its field stations in Nepal, Sri Lanka, and Bangladesh -- because of the growing conviction within the Pakistan military that the war against India could never be won if the hostilities were to be confined only to Jammu and Kashmir issue . While India has occupied the lion's share of LeT attention in recent years, he said the organisation has not by any means restricted itself to keeping only India in its sights. LeT was from the very beginning a preferred ward of the ISI, enjoying all the protection offered by the Pakistani state, he added. Even when Pakistan, under considerable US pressure, formally banned LeT as a terrorist organization in 2002, the LeT leadership remained impregnable and impervious to all international political pressure. Tellis said it would be a gross error to treat the terrorism facing India, including the terrible recent atrocities as simply a problem for New Delhi alone. In a very real sense, the outrage in Mumbai was fundamentally a species of global terrorism not merely because the assailants happened to believe in an obscurantist brand of Islam but, more importantly, because killing Indians turned out to be simply interchangeable with killing citizens of some 15 different nationalities for no apparent reason whatsoever. UNQUOTE. (http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/29mumterror-nia-will-not-be-able- to-prevent-terror-attacks-says-expert.htm). To watch and listen to the hearings. please click: http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm? Fuseaction=Hearings.Detail&HearingID=4bad8b13-1ed8-4ea4-8ed7- 0c020c6205f4 (It takes some time for the video to start). For the text of Ashley Tellis's prepared testimony. please click: http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/_files/012809Tellis.pdf Ram Narayanan US-India Friendship http://usindiafriendship.net/ From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 17:38:12 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 04:08:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40902010521v8475c11gaabfb2135d79a319@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <64036.75013.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Taha   You wrote ".... faith in a smart id card to deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now"   It is your interpretation that it will "deliver us from all the ill". It is sad to see you (a person of research) trivialising arguments that might have been given in favour of the MNIC and misinterpreting them so that you can be sarcasticaly dismissive . You go on to give a  ridiculous analogy of doctor / patient / untested-drug.   Kshmendra   --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood To: "Sandeep" Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 6:51 PM Dear Sandeep Thank you for your response. I find your argument compelling not because of its tone of resignation or because it suggests an epicurean view to engage with the social world but because in your argument I feel an urge to let go the dominant ideas of the day and move on. There is of course nothing wrong in following a line of thinking where one consciously rejects any exercise to interpret dominant ideas in order to generate new forms of meaning instead take these ideas as given and carrying on with one's life. However, in my view and my sensibility as a researcher, which is very limited and limiting field in many ways, I would rather invest as much time and energy as I could in investigating these ideas, while suspending judgment and making new meaning. The reason being, it think, it is a worthwhile time-pass to inquire into the relationship between a man and his environment. This is not to compare it with or negate an epicurean view that you so lucidly suggests but to assert that an inquiry into ideas is not unworthy at all. In this regard if we view our life as a journey in a sea of ideas, the current of identity attracts me the most. This current, must I add, is a strong current, a deep current and a current which seems to be moving a lot of other ideas of this day. From what ever little I have inquired into the origins of this current, I have come up with no clear answer. We as a human race have existed for over five thousand years. Many people have come and gone in this time. Some of them when they were alive took time off from drinking beer to think and reflect on this current of identity. But still we do not have a clear picture as to how this current originated, evolved and turned into this great force which seems to sweeping us all. If there is fundamental conceptual confusion on hand, on the other there seems to be a superficial confidence on part of the national governments and the corporates regarding identity. And it seems that in pursuit of harnessing profit and power they have found two legitimizing arguments- one is poverty and the other is (in)security. We all know how callous any form of power is when it comes to servicing the needs of the most vulnerable sections of a society, hence instead of diverting our money which it takes taxes, to make sure that poorest of the poor get two square meals of food a day, power of the day is indulging in new excuses, like now it wants everyone to be fingerprinted to be identified as its own. What does this tells us-firstly, does power thinks that all of us are criminals? because finger printing till yesterday was only done on criminals and secondly, even after repeatedly carrying out identification exercises for over last one hundred and thirty years, power is not able to either comprehensively conjecture or comprehensively speculate about the nature of identity. I find it amusing as I do not understand why there seems to be so much of faith in a smart id card to deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now because we do not know what the 'I' in MNIC stands for or what 'id' in a smart id card means. Imagine this- Picture our nation as a body. Now this body is afflicted with twin diseases-poverty and (in)security. Imagine the market (the corporates, the MNC's, the producers and manufacturers) as an expert. Like a doctor. Now this doctor tells the patient to take a drug, in this case, it is a smart id card. The person whose body it is takes this drug trusting the doctor. The doctor takes his fee and scoots off. Now you tell me what will happen to the body, if the drug is made of some known and some unknown chemicals? Will the body react favourably to such a treatment? or Will the body look forward to more such doses? Just think about it. We can always have more conversations on this. Warm regards Taha _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 18:03:21 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 18:03:21 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] In memory of the Swat valley Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902020433u17446d5dg732ea2c66929ebb@mail.gmail.com> In memory of the Swat valley In memory of the Swat valley In the national interest Monday, February 02, 2009 by Kamal Siddiqi The writer is editor reporting, The News One can only wonder at the statements of high officials like Rehman Malik who says that a "fresh strategy" has been evolved on Swat, under which militants would be flushed out "within weeks." This statement comes some days after the army chief visited the embattled valley where almost every day a school is being blown up and government officials and offices are being targeted. We are told that the army too is changing its tactics. But is there still a chance, or is it too late? Unlike FATA, where few Pakistanis dared to venture, Swat was the place where most of us went at one time or another in our lives. The beautiful river that ran through the valley, the orchids on both sides of the road, even the riverside hotels, were a source of joy for visitors. But now all that is no more, because successive Pakistani governments chose to ignore the threat posed by religious elements, who continued to influence the sentiments of the locals and play up on these people's insecurities. The main hotels of the area are now shut and boarded up. The tourism industry has folded up, leaving thousands out of jobs. Visits to the valley have dried up. Business has been adversely affected. Most important, normal life has come to a standstill. This looks like this is going to be a long-drawn effort, and not the few weeks that Mr Malik promises us it will take. The same Mullah brigade that was routed from the valley because it led many innocent young men to their deaths by taking them to fight in Afghanistan have now made a comeback. They are now calling the shots in many parts of the province. One can only ask why were they allowed to make that come back and what were the circumstances that have forced that change? One has to go no further than the Lady Reading Hospital in Peshawar to hear the tales of woe of the people of Swat and other parts of the NWFP. These are not people who have risen to fight a Jihad against the government, or the Americans. These are ordinary people who were caught in crossfire and forced to flee for their lives, giving up all they owned except the clothes on their back. They are the victims of the war being fought in the valley and in other parts of Pakistan. But there is no one to assist them. While we have cried ourselves hoarse over the atrocities in Gaza, and rightly so, one can only wonder why no one bothers to come and help their Muslim brethren who languish in Peshawar and other towns across the NWFP, lost and scared over what the future holds for them. There are no charity camps. No religious or political parties giving them help or helping their cause. No effective strategy by the government to resettle them. Many end up sleeping on the streets of Peshawar. This unforgivable silence possibly comes from the fact that the people responsible for their misery are also Muslims and Pakistanis. The people are scared to talk. They are not sure who has the upper hand in the Frontier Province. People on the roads of Peshawar are also scared about where they go from here. While the government watches in silence, the barber shops, the schools, the music shops, as well as other symbols of modernity, have started to close down. The government cannot give ordinary people the reassurance that they need. Many of those killed or those lying injured at various hospitals are policemen and government servants, attacked to sent out the message of the impotence of the government. Residents of Swat who have managed to come as far as Karachi say that they are too scared to blame anyone. But it is not only the militants who have shattered their lives - our soldiers too have antagonized people of the Valley and beyond. In some villages around the area, people have set up vigilante groups that vow to keep out not just the Taliban but the army too. While Swat burns, we are lulled into a false sense of security by our leaders. It reminds one of the happenings in East Pakistan. Many of us are still in denial over the role played by religious extremists. Many in Pakistan still hold the view that the Taliban are not anti-Pakistan. But the government has a lot to answer for. Let us start with the illegal FM radio channels that the all powerful PEMRA allowed to operate in the Valley. No action was taken against the operators of these radio stations which preached a warped version of Islam and promoted intolerance and terror. They asked their listeners to drive away people coming to give their children polio drops. The government stood by and watched. The past military government made heroes out of small-time religious clerics by negotiating with them on issues that should have been dealt with through force. Instead of putting a foot down, the military government accepted many of their demands, which further emboldened the militants. Our government made deals which could not be enforced. We got into agreements which could be broken without any fear of punishment. The manner in which the government's machinery worked left a lot to be desired. On many fronts, the militants also won the goodwill of the people by ensuring quick justice on the issue of crimes and settling of disputes. In present-day Pakistan, the two worst arms of the state are the law and order apparatus and the justice system. Policemen are corrupt and harass the poor and the powerless. The justice system is outdated, full of flaws and expensive, with the result that the poor suffer endlessly and in most instances never get the justice they are promised. The religious militant groups know this and as soon as they take over an area, one of the first things they do is better policing and quicker justice—regardless of the flaws in the manner that this is done. Our politicians need to be taken to task. The ANP may have won the name Pakhtoonkhwa for the province, but what else has it been able to achieve? It has shielded itself behind the PPP government in the centre on the issue of dealing with the issue of rising militancy. The NWFP government has remained helpless when it comes to showing initiative in dealing with the political crisis in the province. The deals signed by the ANP and, before it, the military-led government, need to be re-examined. The ouster of one governor and the change in provincial leadership also needs to be explained. The powers that be have made a royal mess of things. The media too also plays a role in glorifying terrorism. Many well meaning but misguided experts try to make sense of the happenings in Swat. Most are not willing to call a spade by its name. There is much talk of this and that. The bottom line, however, is that the takeover of Swat is a wakeup call to Pakistanis. It is time not only to fight terror and extremism but also for the government to work towards a better system of policing and justice. The needs of the people should be addressed, not those of party workers, retired officers, friends and family. The growing frustration in the country, especially amongst the youth, is manifesting itself in many forms. This has also given rise to popularity of extremist groups and thought. People need to see light at the end of the tunnel. Right now there is only darkness. As things stand, this darkness, which started with the FATA region, is now enveloping all parts of Pakistan. (The News) Email: kamal.siddiqi at thenews.com.pk http://letusbuildpakistan.blogspot.com/2009/02/in-memory-of-swat-valley.html From pawan.durani at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 18:15:26 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 18:15:26 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Swat: Taliban in uniform versus Taliban in civil dress Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902020445q66918dbw577ce894b825aa02@mail.gmail.com> Swat: Taliban in uniform versus Taliban in civil dress Swat: Taliban in uniform versus Taliban in civil dress = 1200 citizens dead; 137 schools blown up Operation Rah-e-Haq is a noora-kusthi (friendly match) of Taliban with Pakistan Army in which low-rank soldiers and ordinary citizens are being used as cannon-fodder. This is the third and final match of the best of three between ISI and their friends. BBC Urdu dot com report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2009/01/090131_swat_operations_analysis.shtml Read the following relevant analysis on Grand Trunk Road: http://www.grandtrunkroad.com/2009/02/02/the-swat-operation/ Also read the following report on the insensitivity of the majority of Pakistanis on the situation in Swat: http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/miscellaneous/story/2009/02/090201_baat_se_baat_na.shtml And this report on the insensitivity of media: http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2009/02/090201_swat_media_fz.shtml From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Mon Feb 2 18:49:19 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 05:19:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? In-Reply-To: <716837190901270841x29fc13b4k22f7b7e09d649c8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <817381.73030.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Hi there,              I was wondering if anyone on the reader list (besides myself), or any organisations in India are thinking of organising a boycott of Pakistan, or maybe linking up with the international recognitions of Pakistan The Terrorist State........there are a number of sites and webpages with info on Pakistan as an epicentre for promoting/fomenting Terrorism across the Globe and therefore deserving of being boycotted internationally.......it would be also interesting to investigate India's relationship with Pakistan in view of the 'Hate Agenda' against India that Pakistan has been following and continues to follow. Please let me know, many thanks,   Kshmendra --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Zain Rahimtula wrote: From: Zain Rahimtula Subject: [Reader-list] anyone thinking about boycotting israeli goods? To: "sarai list" Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 10:11 PM Hi there, I was wondering if anyone on the reader list (besides myself), or any organisations in India are thinking of organising a boycott of Israeli goods, or maybe linking up with the international solidarity movement (ISM)..there is a site with info on boycottiing Israel.. www.bds-palestine.net (bds stands for boycott, divestment, sanctions)..it would be also interesting to investigate india's relationship with israel, Please let me know, many thanks, Zain _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 20:08:14 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:08:14 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] An era ends with Ranbir Hooda Message-ID: <6353c690902020638h1c3df453k9d7133d276cde893@mail.gmail.com> *An era ends with Ranbir Hooda Tribune News Service * Rohtak, February 1 A glorious chapter of the Indian democracy came to an end with the demise of Chaudhary Ranbir Singh, a noted freedom fighter and father of Haryana Chief Minister Bhupinder Singh Hooda. He was the lone surviving member of the Constituent Assembly of India. He breathed his last at 5 pm here today after a prolonged illness. He was 94. He will be cremated tomorrow at 3 pm near IMT campus here on the Delhi road with full state honours. Born on November 26, 1914, in Sanghi village of Rohtak district in the family of noted Arya Samajist Ch Matu Ram, Ranbir Singh got his initial education at his village school where he was admitted in 1920 and Gurukul Bhainswal Kalan near Gohana, Sonepat, run by the great Arya Samajist activist and social reformer, Bhagat Phool Singh. After passing his primary examination, Ranbir Singh joined Vaish High School, Rohtak. He passed his matriculation examination from there in 1933. He joined Government College, Rohtak, for higher studies and passed his FA examination from there in 1935. Later, he moved to Delhi and graduated from Ramjas College in 1937. With a dream to do something for the country, he joined the Gandhian army. He actively took part in the Indian freedom struggle and was arrested eight times and jailed for three years and six months. He was detained twice for two years and was imprisoned for his participation in the freedom struggle. Ranbir Singh had a rare distinction of being a member of seven different constitutional bodies. He was the member of the Constituent Assembly from 1947and 1950. He had been a member of the Constituent Assembly (legislative) from 1948-50. He also remained the member of Provisional Parliament from 1950-52 and a member of the first Lok Sabha from 1952-57. He represented the second Lok Sabha from 1957-62 and became a member of the Punjab Legislative Assembly from 1962-66. He also became an elected member of the Haryana Legislative Assembly from 1966-72 and was elected as a member of the Rajya Sabha from 1972-88. He served as Irrigation and Power Minister of Punjab from 1962-66 and as minister (PWD and Health) of Haryana between 1966 and 1967. He remained the deputy leader of the Congress in Rajya Sabha from 1976-77. Ranbir Singh was the founder general secretary of the Bharat Krishak Samaj and the All-India Backward Classes Federation. He remained the working president of the All-India Freedom Fighter's Organisation till his demise. A graduate from Ramjas College (University of Delhi), Ranbir Singh was conferred with an honorary degree of DLitt by Kurukshetra University in 2007. He is survived by his wife Har Devi and sons - Bhupinder Singh, Inder Singh and Dharmender Singh. Two of his sons - Pratap Singh and Joginder Singh - had expired earlier. From indersalim at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 20:39:25 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:39:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice Message-ID: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> Dear all Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is interesting. http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously he grasped the Kashmir issue. Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to stay behind veil all the time. One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, particularly for women. Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very much there, as significant as ever. Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir was divided. What is LOC after all? I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root level and beyond. Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking on my own behalf. With love and regards Inder salim -- From peter.ksmtf at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 23:06:19 2009 From: peter.ksmtf at gmail.com (T Peter) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:06:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Withdraw price hike of outboard engines: KSMTF Message-ID: <3457ce860902020936x4eb40404l59c0f2eaf246a7e@mail.gmail.com> Withdraw price hike of outboard engines: KSMTF Express News Service First Published : 01 Feb 2009 10:53:31 AM IST Last Updated : 01 Feb 2009 12:18:28 PM IST THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: The Kerala Swathantra Matsya Thozhilali Federation (KSMTF) has called upon the Central and State Governments to withdraw the price hike of outboard engines used for fishing. Addressing a news conference here on Saturday, Federation president T.Peter said there was an increase of Rs 11,000 to Rs 17,000 based on the horsepower of engines. He said that at a time when the fishing sector was facing crisis owing to the shortage of marine wealth, the price hike of engines would further vitiate the crisis. Peter said that 12.5 percent tax was levied on outboard engines. But only four percent tax is levied on agricultural implements. Though the fisheries sector also comes under the Union Agriculture Ministry, it is not being given sufficient consideration. Peter also said that the tax on outboard engines should also be reduced to four percent to save the fisheries sector. He said that the National Fishworkers Forum and the KSMTF had decided to raise the major issues plaguing the fishing sector during the ensuing Lok Sabha elections and mount pressure on the mainstream political parties. Political parties will have to make clear their stand on giving licence to foreign trawlers, setting up of the Union Fisheries Ministry, Fish Import Policy, coastal protection scheme, special economic zone, special tourism zone on the coastal area, marine protected area, kerosene for fishing purpose and on the rehabilitation of fish workers who were affected by sea erosion. Mass conventions would be held in the coastal States before the Lok Sabha elections to press the demands of fish workers, Peter said. From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 23:09:51 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:09:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902020939s4f8e9555kc8696137e3b4fd9d@mail.gmail.com> *Yasin Malik's link to Pak artist stirs trouble * *The Statesman * *Link - http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=2&theme=&usrsess=1&id=242384 * JAMMU, Feb 1: Bizarre as it may sound, senior Kashmiri separatist leader Mohammed Yasin Malik's proposed marriage to a Pakistani artist ~ Mushaal Mullick ~ has invited strong criticism from within the Kashmiri separatist camp. Yasin Malik who is in Pakistan these days, is all set to marry Mushaal Mullick who is the daughter of famous Pakistani economist MA Hussain. Her mother Rehana is the former general secretary of Mr Nawaz Sharif's party. Yasin met Mushaal ~ a student of the London School of Economics ~ in Pakistan during a conference. Yasin himself is a prominent leader of the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front. He came into prominence as a militant in JKLF and underwent training on arms and ammunition in Pakistan based training camps. He has admitted to have killed a group of unarmed Indian Air Force men while they were waiting for their transportation to arrive in period of 1989-1994 in his interview with Tim Sebastian of the BBC. He later surrendered and turned non-violent. Ms Asiya Andrabi, the leader of Kashmir's only all women's separatist organisation Dukhteran-e-Millat (daughters of faith) has opposed this marriage saying that as per Shariyat laws, one can marry only the girls in and around the clan. "If he talks about azadi, Yasin should have married one of the widows who lost their husbands to jihad in Kashmir," said Ms Andrabi. n SNS On 2/2/09, indersalim wrote: > > Dear all > Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, > the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is > interesting. > > http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx > > I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin > Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the > Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. > > Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that > applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously > he grasped the Kashmir issue. > > Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. > Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and > going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as > his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to > stay behind veil all the time. > > One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( > predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a > Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, > but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, > particularly for women. > > Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take > Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi > but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his > choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the > cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his > choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will > he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? > > Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly > about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has > any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens > to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But > slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the > cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this > issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like > that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. > Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and > dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. > > The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. > I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues > like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak > about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a > sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival > of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. > > This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free > election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still > have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every > other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously > gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very > much there, as significant as ever. > > Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir > Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to > understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority > area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to > Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the > troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir > was divided. What is LOC after all? > > I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I > hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself > looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with > some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root > level and beyond. > > Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of > living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is > openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, > which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. > So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. > > So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , > and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of > office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines > against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation > is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? > > Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking > on my own behalf. > > With love and regards > Inder salim > > > > -- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 23:14:38 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 23:14:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902020944h15f409at39b79d1322b91ccc@mail.gmail.com> Yasin Malik to marry a racy artist from Pakistan Link - http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Yasin+Malik+to+marry+a+racy+artist+from+Pakistan&artid=BQ2VatavOs8=&SectionID=b7ziAYMenjw=&MainSectionID=wIcBMLGbUJI=&SectionName=pWehHe7IsSU=&SEO=Yasin%20Malik,%20JKLF,%20Mushaal%20Mullick NEW DELHI : In a match which has stunned Islamic society in India and Pakistan, Yasin Malik and Mushaal Mullick will next month become man and wife. Malik, who is the founder of the Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front has left India for Pakistan where he is expected to marry his racy fiancé next week. He told friendshe was leaving for Pakistan "on a 10-day personal visit to Pakistan. "I will solemnise Nikaah [marriage] in an austere way according to Islamic tenets," he pledged. There is nothing austere about his fiancée however, and questions have been asked over how he reconciles is commitment to Islamic tenets with her risqué art. She specialises in paintings which capture "raw beauty of the feminine mystique," she says, but they would be regarded by many of her fiance's militant comrades as pornographic. In a 'Rose That Left A Thorn Behind,' a passionate Pakistani woman with wild hair is shown naked from the waist up, glancing over shoulder, revealing her breast. In The Forgotten Love, a softer-looking woman stares out of the frame, brushing her cheek with hand, and covering her nipples with her arms. Her paintings may not seem controversial in the West, but in Pakistan where Taliban militants have bombed girls' schools, murdered dancing girls, and destroyed music and video shops in recent weeks, they are explosive. On her website, Mushaal, 28, says she began painting as a child, and her current work reveals a fascination with the striking faces and voluptuous curves of green-eyed Pakistani women. She shows her works at carefully selected exhibitions in the country and donates proceeds of sales to charities supporting women's causes. She comes from a distinguished establishment family in Pakistan, where her father was a university professor and her mother a women's leader of the powerful Pakistan Muslim League. JKLF leader Yasin Malik, 42, is said to have met and fallen in love with Mushaal at a conference in Pakistan. He missed his engagement ceremony last October when he was jailed for agitating for an election boycott. Friends said although he was personally a Muslim, he was not a fundamentalist and his choice of bride was his own personal affair. "The Kashmiri freedom struggle is a political and not religious struggle. Marriageis always a personal decision and one should not mix it up with politics. As far as I know Mushaal is a well-known painter and if she finds her paintings as a way of expression, there is nothing wrong," said Yasin's friend Shahidul Islam, a leader of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference against Indian rule in Kashmir. On 2/2/09, indersalim wrote: > > Dear all > Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, > the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is > interesting. > > http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx > > I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin > Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the > Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. > > Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that > applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously > he grasped the Kashmir issue. > > Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. > Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and > going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as > his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to > stay behind veil all the time. > > One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( > predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a > Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, > but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, > particularly for women. > > Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take > Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi > but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his > choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the > cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his > choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will > he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? > > Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly > about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has > any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens > to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But > slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the > cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this > issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like > that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. > Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and > dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. > > The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. > I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues > like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak > about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a > sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival > of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. > > This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free > election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still > have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every > other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously > gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very > much there, as significant as ever. > > Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir > Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to > understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority > area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to > Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the > troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir > was divided. What is LOC after all? > > I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I > hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself > looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with > some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root > level and beyond. > > Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of > living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is > openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, > which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. > So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. > > So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , > and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of > office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines > against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation > is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? > > Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking > on my own behalf. > > With love and regards > Inder salim > > > > -- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Feb 3 00:44:30 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:14:30 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <64036.75013.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <65be9bf40902010521v8475c11gaabfb2135d79a319@mail.gmail.com> <64036.75013.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902021114g68ac97bbi88ae934087702f8c@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra I am sorry I could not understand your argument at all. Could you please elaborate as to what it is that you want to convey? I am floored by your acute eye for detail and in applying your analytical faculties in coming to a conclusion that you find my interpretation of arguments concerning MNIC, trivial. Please do not get perturbed because I think as far as the plethora of issues in India is concerned, perhaps it could be argued that MNIC is trivial. There is nothing in wrong in an issue to be interpreted as trivial as long as one can create new imaginations, newer meanings in that triviality. Come to think of it, MNIC in a material sense is nothing but a summation of triviality. The chip which is going to be in the card is a trivial piece of plastic and silicon. The information which this chip contains will be in trivial bytes and bites. The gigantic archive which a national population register will become eventually will be formed of trivial doses of information. Not only that, MNIC will be used for rather trivial purposes like buying a bus ticket or a train ticket or opening a bank account or going to school. I shall not show surprise if a future government issues an order for a MNIC reader to be installed in all auto rickshaws and all our trivial rides in a city is recorded through a reader. Hence perhaps I am not be that off the mark in engaging in a trivial interpretation of MNIC. At the same time I do not think that just because a thing can be imagined as trivial, we must not bother to accord it any seriousness. I think that even in its triviality MNIC presents us with a serious set of questions. I have on my part tried to raise some of the questions that I forsee in the idea of a national identity card. I do not want to argue either in favour or against the introduction of national identity card because I feel that it is a policy matter and as I have said time and again I am not capable to influence any policy. I am interested in the idea of a national identity card. And I would very much like to hear what you think about this idea. Regards Taha From vivek at sarai.net Tue Feb 3 10:13:11 2009 From: vivek at sarai.net (Vivek Narayanan) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 10:13:11 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] GOOD NEWS. I HAVE FINANLLY MADE IT Message-ID: <4987CB5F.90008@sarai.net> One of the frustrating things about reading 419 scams as literature is that, by definition, the plot never moves forward. Well, at least here's an attempt in that direction. (note also the email address) Vivek -------- Original Message -------- Subject: RE GOOD NEWS. I HAVE FINANLLY MADE IT Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 15:13:30 -0000 (UTC) From: Mr.Frank George Reply-To: pastorezekiel at walla.com To: undisclosed-recipients:; My Dear Beloved How are you today? Hope all is well with you and your family? it's me Mr.Frank from Africa. If you have forgotten me, you may have received a mail or proposal from me in the past regarding a business deal which i asked you to assist me claim some fund and which you never cared to reply again. Actually, I m happy to inform you about my success in getting the fund claimed and transferred under the co-operation of a new partner from Monaco. Presently i'm in Monaco for investment projects with my own share of the total sum. Due to your fear an doubthing mind you missed that golden Opportuntiy that comes once in a life time. Now contact my Pastor overthere in africa with the below contact Name;Pastor ezekiel Bell Tel; +229-98 267 088 E-mail ; pastorezekiel at sify.com Ask him to send you the international certified bank draft worth of $600.000.00 (SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND US DOLLARS) which I have already packaged and kept aside for you as a compensation for knowing little or more about the Buisness Deal. This bank draft is cashable in any bank anywhere in the world.I have authorized my Pastor to release the Bank Draft to you whenever you contact him regarding for it. At the moment, I'm very busy here in Monaco because of the investment projects, which I and the new partner are having at hand.Please I will like you to accept this token with good faith as this is from the bottom of my heart,Also comply with my Pastor's directives so that he will send the draft to you without any delay. Therefore, you should send him your full Name and telephone number/your correct mailing address where you want him to send the draft to you. Hoping to hear from you. Mr.Frank George From pawan.durani at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 10:23:19 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:23:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Saving 'Buddha' of SWAT Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902022053l37cbd757y1e152266d61d23bc@mail.gmail.com> [ Note : *Taliban under Fazlullah, have already blew up 1300 year old carving of a seated Buddha cut into a 45 metre high rock face, one of Swat's top tourist attraction.* ] Swat has been inhabited for over two thousand years and was known in ancient times as Udyana. The first inhabitants were settled in well-planned towns. The independent monarchs of this region came under Achaemenid influence, before reverting back to local control in the 4th century BC. In 327 BC, Alexander the Great fought his way to Udegram and Barikot. In Greek accounts these towns have been identified as Ora and Bazira. By 305 BC, the region became a part of the Mauryan Empire. Around the 2nd century BC, the area was occupied by Buddhists, the Indo-Greeks, and the Kushans who were attracted by the peace and serenity of the land. Swat is thought to be the probable birthplace of Vajrayana Buddhism. There are many archaeological sites in the district, and Buddhist relics are common, testimony to their skills as sculptors and architects. The Swat museum has the footprints of the Buddha, which were found in the Swat valley and can now be seen in the Swat museum. When the Buddha died, His relics (or ashes) were distributed to seven kings, who built stupas over them for veneration.. The Harmarajika stupa (Taxila) and Butkarha (Swat) stupa at Jamal Garha were among the earliest stupas of Gandhara. These had been erected on the orders of king Ashoka and contained the real relics of the Buddha. The Gandhara school is probably credited with the first representation of the Buddha in human form, the portrayal of Buddha in his human shape, rather than shown as a symbol. As Buddhist art developed and spread outside India, the styles developed here were imitated. For example, in China the Gandhara style was imitated in images made of bronze, with a gradual change in the features of these images. Swat, the land of romance and beauty, is celebrated throughout the world as the holy land of Buddhist learning and piety. Swat acquired fame as a place of Buddhist pilgrimage. Buddhist tradition holds that the Buddha himself came to Swat during his last reincarnation as the Guatama Buddha and preached to the people here. It is said that the Swat was filled with fourteen hundred imposing and beautiful stupas and monasteries, which housed as many as 6,000 gold images of the Buddhist pantheon for worship and education. There are now more than 400 Buddhist sites covering and area of 160 km in Swat valley only. Among the important Buddhist excavation in Swat an important one is Butkarha-I, containing the original relics of the Buddha Now Swat is under Talibanic forces, all these heritage are sure to become their target, as they are short sighted, fanatics of Islam. USA must help Pakistan at this stage to save Swat in NWFP, which is much inside Pakistan and nowhere near Afghan border, from going to Taliban and Pakistan government should be pressurised by India, USA and other democratic country from world over to save these heritage at ANY cost. I do not know if India's weak foreign policy will be able to execute the required pressure. Note: After I have posted this three days ago, the Taliban under Fazlullah, have already blew up 1300 year old carving of a seated Buddha cut into a 45 metre high rock face, one of Swat's top tourist attraction. Some Pictures of SWAT Buddha http://www.flickr.com/photos/imranthetrekker/1886008018/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/imranthetrekker/1886008018/page2/ Note : The write up belongs to a Pakistani and i have received it from a mail. Somehow I missed the link From aliens at dataone.in Tue Feb 3 10:57:33 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 10:57:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> Dear Taha, I don’t know which data you are talking for and not mentioned particular reference. The things you are mentioning is very general applicable to whole India. In the 60 years of Independence, the things improving at very slow rate. Today poverty is 25 % below poverty line which was about 75 % at the time independence. It took 50/55 years for reduction of 50% poverty and major reduction took place after 1991 only when reform started. You can’t expect miracle in 5/6 years. Govt. job is to create opportunity by way of developing infrastructure in the field of Power, Road, Port, Airport which helps in the overall development. This key development was ignored since independence for about 50 years. During Narsimharao rule he took bold step by bringing Mr. Manmohansingh as Finance Minister, a non-politician and started free economy which was necessary to develop competitiveness in the Indian industries. At that time (1992-93) my friends/business ally telling that by cut in import duty Indian industries will die. But, I told them that nothing will happen and with this step Indian industries will grow very well and within 10/12 years Indian industries were capable to buy foreign industries. Rajiv Gandhi has also done good job in the communication field and brought computer age. At this stage also, infrastructure development was not upto the mark, which was started in big scale by Atalji in the field of Road, Power, Airports. Many were arguing why wasting in road to run luxury cars. I replied that 85% roads are used by trucks for transportation and with the improved quality of road transportation becomes chip and ultimately benefited to people only. This infrastructure of Road development running in the fast pace were slowed down drastically when UPA came to power because of communists and Laluji. This infrastructural development should have been started after 5/10 years of independence and in that case India would have been super power by now. But sorry to say that Congress was after vote bank politics only (Particularly from the Indira Gandhi rule. Corruption has also started heavily during her rule) and there policies were decided keeping in the mind of minority vote bank. So, to counter this minority vote bank BJP started vowing major vote bank of Hindu and vicious circle starts. Nuclear agreement with US was intiated by NDA govt. only and I doubt even congress would have thought in this line to do such agreement again minor vote bank politics. However, it was initiated once one has to go on that direction and if Manmohansingh (non-politician, non-congress originally) was not there as PM, it would have not been done. BJP was opposing for some clause of it included on the pressure of US. This agreement was necessary because our nuclear plant producing power was not working without fuel like uranium and to run this plant we require the fuel. So, since 5 years Mr. Modi has concentrated fully in the govt. efficiency, minimize corruption in the govt. dept. and development of infrastructure. No govt. can go to home by home and ask whether you have roti to eat or not. Govt. job is to provide infrastructure in efficient manner which is necessary for overall development. In India we talk about the lack of cleanliness of roads and public places. I do not blame any govt. for this, un-disciplined public is responsible for it. To bring discipline, I think we should make compulsory NCC subject in the college. It was there earlier, but Indira has removed it. Today, if anyone talk to bring NCC back, National anthem/prayer like vandemataram, Surya-namaskar for exercise purpose (its best exercise) or any such type, but the so called pseudo-secularist come in the media to oppose it with the argument that you are forcing Hinduism. They are not real secular, but worry for their vote bank. These are all steps bring discipline and nationality (not Hinduism). I remember when Atalji became PM, I wrote one letter to him with suggestions like: The reservation policy benefit can be given to those family having family planning (2 children) or at the most 3 children. I got just one line answer: Thanks. Good suggestion, we think over it. I gave this suggestions to one my friend in the congress also, but he told that no one like to lose back-word class votes by applying this, though its good suggestion. Vote bank politics is biggest hindrance in India to grow healthily. No time now today. I welcome your suggestion. Bipin Trivedi ----- Original Message ----- From: Taha Mehmood To: Rakesh Iyer Cc: bipin ; sarai-list Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 11:14 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath Dear Bipin Thank you for sharing a counter petition which argues in favor of Narender Modi. It appears that you have followed Mr. Modi's administration rather closely over the last many years. If that is so then could please explain to me the existence of a view that half of the population of Gujarat is suffering from malnutrition, anemia and low body mass index. You shall have my respect Sir!! if while replying if you could kindly let go of all the well rehearsed arguments in favor of Modi or RSS or BJP, or resorting to wrongs of others to justify Mr. Modis actions because two wrongs do not make a right. However taking a cue from your petition, I want to state that even as an administrator Mr. Modi is grossly inefficient. What matters to me is this- Mr. Modi was given a responsibility, a constitutional responsibility, to take care of his people. If we follow the data given by the FCI and other government bodies then it appears that he has failed badly in providing basic, fundamental amenities like do waqt ki roti, to the very 5 crore Gujarati, in whose name he garnered votes. Hence I do not understand that while he could not even manage five crore Gujaratis in the last seven years, how could he manage 100 crore Indians even for an hour. Warm regards Taha http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/half-of-vibrant-gujarat-goes-to-sleep-empty-stomach/401073/ Half of Vibrant Gujarat goes to sleep empty stomachGaurav SharmaPosted: Dec 21, 2008 at 0355 hrs ISTAhmedabad Despite tall claims on paper, cases of malnutrition,anaemia, low body mass index abound in state "It is with the core value of the Right to Food that the Gujaratgovernment's Food, Civil Supplies and Consumer Affairs Department setsits mandate," this is the government's claim. But, according to various reports, the state's Public Distribution System (PDS) is in ashambles.On paper, much hyped schemes like the Anand Smart Card Project,Roaming Ration Card, Food Fortification, Grahak Bhandar Yojana, Food Helpline and others may appear to be in place. Despite this, almosthalf of Gujarat's six crore population is hungry.For its part, the state government has issued nearly 89.58 lakh AbovePoverty Line (APL) cards and 35.51 lakh Below Poverty Line (BPL) cards. In the latter category, about 8.10 lakh cards fall under theAntyodaya Anna Yojna (AAY), which caters to the poorest of the poor.So, in all, nearly 1.33 crore ration cards have been issued in thestate to ensure the availability of wheat, rice, sugar and kerosene to the poorer sections of society at highly subsidised rates.This means that ideally, the system should work like this— the FoodCorporation of India (FCI) issues the PDS quota to Gujarat at asubsidised rate, which in turn further subsidises it for BPL and AAY cardholders. APL citizens get no subsidy and have to pay the marketprice of their share of PDS. The food goes from the nationalwarehouses to the state warehouses where it is checked, fortified andthen distributed to Fair Price Shops (FPS). Ration cardholders then pick up their quota from there.But, as the state government itself has admitted, the PDS in Gujarathave come to be known for hoarding, profiteering, poor quality,adulteration, overpricing and under weighing. The FCI allots less than the required PDS quota to Gujarat and the government doesn't evenbother about it. It keeps itself busy converting more and more BPLcards to APL, apparently to showcase its efforts at improving thehunger situation in the state, at least on paper. Also, bogus cards are made at will and the PDS quota is diverted tothe open market using these. This happens at both the levels of theCivil Supplies Department and the Fair Price Shops. With absolutely nochecks on the FPS, these functions as autonomous bodies and are the major source of resource diversions. Such is the situation now thatnumerous public hearings, suo motto cognizance by the Gujarat HighCourt and various RTI applications have failed to bring about anychange. Gujarat's Minister for Food and Civil Supplies Narattam Patel couldnot be contacted for comments.Alarmingly hungry* According to International Food Policy Research Institute's 2008Global Hunger Index, Gujarat is ranked 69th along with Haiti, the nation infamous for food riots. The state is placed in the 'alarming'category.* The M S Swaminathan Research Foundation has identified urban Gujaratas 'moderately food secure' while rural Gujarat remains 'severely insecure.'* The National Family Health Survey III (NFHS-III) conveys that 42.4per cent of children in Gujarat are suffering from stunted growth dueto malnutrition. Also, about 47.4 per cent of children are underweight in the state.* NFHS-III also points out that more than half of Gujarat's populationis Anaemic, with a percentage as high as 80.1 for children aged 6-35months.* NFHS-III further states that nearly one-third of adults in Gujarat have their Body Mass Index (BMI) below the normal, 32.3 per cent forwomen and 28.2 per cent for men.System in a shambles but the government is in denialSC overruled* The Supreme Court had ordered on November 28, 2001 and January 10, 2008 to provide 35 kg food grains — 19 kg wheat flour and 16 kg rice —to the poorest of the poor under the Antyodaya Scheme. But the Gujaratgovernment in its resolution dated March 24, 2008 decided to provide16 kg rice and 16.7 kg wheat fortified flour * The government deducts 2.3 kg from the entitlement of 19 kg andpasses it on to the flour mills as the cost of fortification. So,flour mills get the benefit of 24,647 tons of wheat annually at thecost of poorest of the poor Poor distribution systemPublic hearings in 2008 against injustices abounding in the PDS* 900 people attend a hearing organised by the Lok Adhikar Manch(supported by Action Aid) on April 30 at Anjar, Kutch. * 1,300 people attend a hearing organised by Lok Adhikar Manch on July2 at Khavda in Kutch* 1,150 people attend a hearing organised by Sarthi (supported byAction Aid) on November 21 at PanchmahalsCommon grievances recorded * Large scale diversion of PDS food grains* Irregular identification and distribution of ration cards* False and fake entries on ration cards* Fair Price Shops (FPS) open for less than two weeks in a month against the stipulated 24 daysSorry state of affairs* The National Council for Applied Economic Research (NCAER), NewDelhi, finds in a survey that nearly 11, 53,000 ghost/fake BPL cardshave been issued in Gujarat * An ORG-Marg report commissioned by the Centre reveals that inGujarat, about 41 per cent of rice slotted for the poor is beingdiverted* According to the state government, the Centre allots food grainsonly for 21.20 lakh families as against the 35.51 lakh BPL families, a gap for nearly 14.31 lakh families. Still, the Ministry of ConsumerAffairs, Food and Public Distribution confirms in reply to an RTIapplication that 'No representation is received from any MP, MLA, CMor Minister regarding the supply of food grains to Gujarat since the last one year.'* An analysis report dated December 26, 2007 of the Public HealthLaboratory, Ahmedabad Municipal Corporation, confirms live insects,high quantity of chaff in 18 samples of fortified wheat flour supplied by FPS at various districts in Rajkot, Panchmahals, Dahod, Dwarka andJamnagar. It is deemed unfit for human consumption.* The FCI admits in a reply to an application filed under the Right toInformation Act that nearly 73,814 tons of food grains have been damaged in Gujarat and Maharashtra over the past decade From anansi1 at earthlink.net Tue Feb 3 05:46:59 2009 From: anansi1 at earthlink.net (Paul Miller) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 19:16:59 -0500 Subject: [Reader-list] Understanding Islam through Virtual Worlds findings: "Elevating humanity's most distinguishing feature: The Imagination." References: <878e6ce80902021310k715bc897oc1b3899b7c22645e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I just thought I'd forward this. They're quite into creating more dialog. Paul Begin forwarded message: > From: "Joshua S. Fouts" > Date: February 2, 2009 4:10:46 PM EST > To: "Joshua S. Fouts" > Cc: "Rita J. King" > Subject: Understanding Islam through Virtual Worlds findings: > "Elevating humanity's most distinguishing feature: The Imagination." > Reply-To: josh.fouts at gmail.com > > Dear friends and colleagues: We are pleased to share the below with > you > > Findings from Understanding Islam through Virtual Worlds Project > "Elevating humanity's most distinguishing feature: The Imagination." > > February 2, 2009 -- After a year of research across the Internet and > four continents, Dancing Ink Productions' Rita J. King and Joshua S. > Fouts, senior fellows at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in > International Affairs, have released the findings from the > Understanding Islam through Virtual Worlds project. The project was > funded by a grant from the Richard Lounsbery Foundation. > > The findings include a trilogy of actionable reports including > policy recommendations on the potential use of virtual worlds for > digital diplomacy to be submitted to the Obama Administration; a > mini broadcast quality documentary produced in collaboration with > Ill Clan Animation Studios; and a graphic book chronicling the > journey. By releasing three versions of the report Fouts and King > hope to make accessible what is still a very new medium. Digital > versions of the findings can be found here: http://dancinginkproductions.com/?page_id=80 > . > > "With this report, Josh and Rita have illuminated a new path–a > definite intelligible plan–for practical public diplomacy in an area > of supreme urgency. Furthermore, they have done so by elevating > humanity's most distinguishing feature: the imagination," said Joel > Rosenthal, President of the Carnegie Council for Ethics in > International Affairs. > > The idea for Understanding Islam through Virtual Worlds project was > hatched with a very specific idea in mind: How could people learn > about other cultures in an authentic, experiential space -- > specifically, how could they learn about cultures that self- > identified as Muslim? King and Fouts chose Second Life for many > reasons, among them that it is the best international platform -- > more than 70% of its users are from outside the United States. > Their goal was to to see what they could learn about Islam -- not by > inviting particular people with particular perspectives into Second > Life, but rather to follow the trail of what was already happening > culturally in the space that might yield new insight about Islam. > > "Belief systems overlap now in ways that would have been unthinkable > millennia ago when many of the conflicting ideas still governing > human behavior today were created, but immersive virtual > environments offer the perfect medium for assessment of concepts of > self and community," Rita J. King told the audience at the Carnegie > Council. "It is not just a good medium, passable amid a sea of other > equally effective options. It is the perfect medium, at least as an > initial training ground to teach the digital culture how to engage > in difficult and sensitive conversations involving real-world > challenges in the complete absence of any possibility of physical > violence or even any trace of intimidation. Additionally, virtual > environments offer a deeper level of candor, which is necessary for > true understanding." > > "Earlier this week, President Barack Obama launched the first public > diplomacy campaign of his presidency by granting his first > international interview to a non-US satellite television news > station, Al Arabiya," said Joshua S. Fouts in his January 29, 2009 > remarks at the Carnegie Council for Ethics in International > Affairs. "In doing this he effectively went over the leaders of the > Middle East and spoke to the people. 'All too often,' President > Obama said, 'the United States starts by dictating ... so let's > listen.'" > > This project at its foundation is about storytelling which is about > understanding something new about the human condition. Public > Diplomacy, Cultural Diplomacy or Strategic Communication as it is > also known, are efforts by governments, NGOs, and civil societies to > tell their story to foreign publics. Too often public diplomacy is > criticized for being too preachy and not listening. With this > project, Fouts and King listened to, and documented the narratives > of, people from all over the physical world who either practice > Islam, or want to further understand those who do. > > Digital copies of all of the Understanding Islam through Virtual > Worlds reports can be downloaded here:http://dancinginkproductions.com/?page_id=80 > > For more information, see DIP's Dispatches from the Imagination Age: www.eurekadejavu.com > and the Dancing Ink Productions homepage: www.DancingInkProductions.com > . > > ### > > -- > -- > Joshua S. Fouts > Senior Fellow, Carnegie Council for Ethics in International Affairs; > Senior Fellow, Digital Media and Public Policy, The Center for the > Study of the Presidency > Chief Global Strategist > Dancing Ink Productions, LLC > e: josh at dancinginkproductions.com > w: dancinginkproductions.com > b: www.eurekadejavu.com > skype: josholalia > Visit our blog: "Dispatches from the Imagination Age" www.eurekadejavu.com From rajeshr at csds.in Tue Feb 3 15:44:18 2009 From: rajeshr at csds.in (Rajesh Ramakrishnan) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:44:18 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] `Commemorating Hurt: Memorialising Operation Bluestar'; Radhika Chopra, CSDS, Feb 11 Message-ID: Wednesday, 11th February, 2009 Radhika Chopra will speak on Commemorating Hurt: Memorialising Operation Bluestar at 2:30 PM in the Seminar Room, CSDS, 29 Rajpur Road, Delhi – 110 054 The storming of the Darbar Sahib at Amritsar by the Indian army in June 1984 has become a commemorative event in the ritual calendar of the Gurdwara. Memorialised every year in June, Ghallughara Dihara (Day of Genocide) telescopes the modern event with medieval Sikh history. The remembrances of Bluestar and its martyrs are primarily viewed as an anti-state ritual, evoking the devastation of the Akal Takht as the hurt remembered. But over time ritual performances have altered the meaning of memorialising, subtly discounting the pre-eminence of particular Khalistani leaders killed in the army action, telescoping them within the generalised category of martyrs. Within Darbar Sahib celebrations a sense of a restoration of "order" and divine authority embodied in the Akal Takht prevail over the memory of charismatic leaders who were central to the movement for Khalistan. Ritual enactments among the Sikh Diaspora in London link continued claims for political asylum and rights of residence with political persecution in the 'homeland'. Radhika Chopra studied at the University of Delhi. She has co-edited "South Asian Masculinities: Contexts of Change, Sites of Continuity"(2004); and guest edited a special issue of the journal Men and Masculinities, "Muted Masculinities: Contemporary Indian Ethnographies" (October 1 2006, Volume 9). She is currently working on issues of militancy and migration in Punjab. From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Feb 3 16:01:35 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 10:31:35 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath In-Reply-To: <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> Dear Bipin Thank you for your response. The data, I think, which the Indian express article refers to, is gleaned from a variety of sources like the National Health Survey, NCAER , MS Swaminathan Research foundation and Lok adhikar manch. I appreciate your citation of all the macro data and let me say that I agree to your interpretation in most of the cases. However I do not think that Gujarat or any other state could mirror national averages in every aspect. All I was asking was this- Mr. Modi seems to have this image about efficiency and 'getting the work done' attitude. There was a view expressed in the IE article which seems to going against this image. Your petition makes an attempt to argue for an efficient administrator image of Mr. Modi. Hence in this respect, I was wondering how would you respond to the view articulated in the IE article. All you have to do is cite any data from these organization or other organizations like NSSO or State planning Commission that either challenges this view or negates it solely on the basis of some evidence. That's all. We are not talking about roads, railways, national employment figures, or nuclear policy or any such thing. We are not talking about macro terms like Nation or India's image etc. In this case we are just talking about Mr. Modi administrative skills and efficiency in handling three things- cases of malnutrition,anaemia, low body mass index. We are talking about these indexes solely with respect to Gujarat. We are not interested in what WB govt's position is or Kerala's position is, or Maharastra's position is on these three indexes. Let us for the sake of Mr.Modi concentrate on Gujarat only. The reason why we must do this exercise and not compare with other states is because there is a view that for the RSS and the Hindu right Gujarat is a laboratory. What happens in Gujarat in so far as the Hindutva politics go, does not happen anywhere in India. So if Mr. Modi has managed to first grab and then cling to power from a political strategy which is unique, I think, it is only fitting as a mark of respect to this uniqueness that we must judge his administration and his skills uniquely. Regards Taha From aliens at dataone.in Tue Feb 3 16:33:36 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 16:33:36 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> Dear Taha You are absolutely misunderstood, this time Modi was reelected not for Hindu plank, he was elected solely on development plank. Now voters become smart and look macro way of development which is good sign. That's why congress since last many years loosing their ground and need other party support to rule, since their vote bank politics plank is not working. If congress will does some real development work, than they will also win. e.g. In Delhi Sheila Dixit has won this time again. There is no Hindutva laboratory as you think theses are all media creation and if RSS think on that direction they are doing mistake. RSS is a honorary organization known for their services and remain present wherever there is national calamities/disaster. However, in this new era there thinking might found outdated to major youngsters. May be one or two article printed contrary, but there are so many articles printed of praising of Modi. You will find many such articles in Times of India and Gujarat/Mumbai Gujarati papers/magazines. thanks Bipin Trivedi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: "bipin" Cc: "sarai-list" Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 4:01 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath > Dear Bipin > > Thank you for your response. > > The data, I think, which the Indian express article refers to, is > gleaned from a variety of sources like the National Health Survey, > NCAER , MS Swaminathan Research foundation and Lok adhikar manch. > > I appreciate your citation of all the macro data and let me say that I > agree to your interpretation in most of the cases. However I do not > think that Gujarat or any other state could mirror national averages > in every aspect. > > All I was asking was this- Mr. Modi seems to have this image about > efficiency and 'getting the work done' attitude. There was a view > expressed in the IE article which seems to going against this image. > Your petition makes an attempt to argue for an efficient administrator > image of Mr. Modi. Hence in this respect, I was wondering how would > you respond to the view articulated in the IE article. All you have to > do is cite any data from these organization or other organizations > like NSSO or State planning Commission that either challenges this > view or negates it solely on the basis of some evidence. > > That's all. > > We are not talking about roads, railways, national employment figures, > or nuclear policy or any such thing. We are not talking about macro > terms like Nation or India's image etc. In this case we are just > talking about Mr. Modi administrative skills and efficiency in > handling three things- > cases of malnutrition,anaemia, low body mass index. > > We are talking about these indexes solely with respect to Gujarat. We > are not interested in what WB govt's position is or Kerala's position > is, or Maharastra's position is on these three indexes. Let us for the > sake of Mr.Modi concentrate on Gujarat only. > > The reason why we must do this exercise and not compare with other > states is because there is a view that for the RSS and the Hindu right > Gujarat is a laboratory. What happens in Gujarat in so far as the > Hindutva politics go, does not happen anywhere in India. So if Mr. > Modi has managed to first grab and then cling to power from a > political strategy which is unique, I think, it is only fitting as a > mark of respect to this uniqueness that we must judge his > administration and his skills uniquely. > > Regards > > Taha From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 16:53:44 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 03:23:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Yasin Malik - The Jihadi Terrorist Message-ID: <530361.98951.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> This is for those (especially the Indians) who continue to speak for and on behalf of Yasin Malik, The Jihadi Terrorist.   As recently as 22nd August 2008, Yasin Malik was in (telephone) discussions with the Jihadi Terrorist, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed, founder of 'Lashkar - e - Taiba' (LeT) and then the  Ameer of Jama'at-Ud-Da'wah.   QUOTE FROM REPORT 1: On August 22, Kashmiri separatist leader Yasin Malik and Saeed had agreed to cooperate on the Kashmir issue.   Saeed had then said that Pakistan's rulers might "have their own limitations and constraints" but the Jamat-ud-Dawah had "no constraints whatsoever and would go to the last limits in helping our Muslim brothers". UNQUOTE http://www.kashmirwatch.com/showkashmir.php?subaction=showfull&id=1219924327&archive=&start_from=&ucat=17&var1news=value1news     QUOTE FROM REPORT 2: Kashmiri separatist leader Yasin Malik on Friday spoke to militant outfit Lashker-e-Taiba founder Hafiz Muhammad Saeed and they agreed to cooperate with each other in their activities in Jammu and Kashmir.   They agreed on this course of action when Saeed spoke to Malik on telephone, said a statement issued by Jamat-ud-Dawah, a group set up by Saeed after the Pakistan government imposed a ban on the LeT. UNQUOTE http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/aug/22amar6.htm     Yasin Malik, in agreeing to 'co-operate' with Hafiz Muhammad Saeed (LeT + Jama'at-Ud-Da'wah) would certainly be aware of his Jihadi Terrorism ideology. Yasin Malik has agreed to 'co-operate' with that Jihadi Terrorism ideology. The ideology can be recognised in the following:   QUOTE Last year (2007), at a February 5 function in Lahore, Lashkar chief Hafiz Muhammed Saeed declared that the “jihad in Kashmir will end when all the Hindus will be destroyed in India.” And soon after Shah delivered his talk to the Jamaat-ud-Dawa, Lashkar commander Nasr Javed told the audience that the “jihad will spread from Kashmir to other parts of India [and] Muslims will be ruling India again.” UNQUOTE http://www.hinduonnet.com/2008/02/27/stories/2008022754171000.htm     There is a Nov 2005 report of Yasin Malik and Hafiz Muhammad Saeed being together at a meeting:   QUOTE Saeed said that love for Kashmir and its people was a part of faith for Pakistanis. .......... “Through Yasin Malik, the whole Pakistan is Kashmir and whole Kashmir is Pakistan.”   Nawai Waqt Editor-in-Chief Majid Nizami said, “I have heard that Malik is a jihadi-minded person and I pray to Allah to strengthen his jihad.”  ................ Nizami said, “I am convinced that Kashmir can be freed through jihad.....”The Nawa-I-Waqt editor said the government was labeling jihad as “militancy” because it feared George Bush, otherwise the rulers did not oppose it. UNQUOTE http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2005%5C11%5C07%5Cstory_7-11-2005_pg7_19     Kshmendra                       From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 16:54:26 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 03:24:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice Message-ID: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Inder Salim   You are playing advisor to and policy strategist for Yasin Malik a self-admitted murderer. Yasin, who amongst others led (post 1947) the introduction of Islamic Terrorism into Kashmir. Yasin who ostensibly eschewed the path of violence, yet continued to have links with Terrorist Organisations. Yasin the Terrorist.   Kshmendra  --- On Mon, 2/2/09, indersalim wrote: From: indersalim Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice To: "reader-list" Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 8:39 PM Dear all Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is interesting. http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously he grasped the Kashmir issue. Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to stay behind veil all the time. One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, particularly for women. Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very much there, as significant as ever. Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir was divided. What is LOC after all? I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root level and beyond. Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking on my own behalf. With love and regards Inder salim -- _________________________________________ reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. Critiques & Collaborations To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 17:45:27 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 04:15:27 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] "Truckling to the Taliban" (siome plainspeaking for Pakistan) Message-ID: <133047.79477.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Increasingly, the world over, voices are being raised against the duplicitous nature of Pakiostan. The 'SSSSsssshush, let us not criticise them, they are our allies on the War on Terror' seems to be giving way to 'Pakistan, we have had enough of your trying to make fools out of us in your greed for doles'   While some Indians continue to be apologists for Pakistan and Terrorists (from Pakistan or from within India), by and large the people of India too seem to be unwilling to give Pakistan any more the benefit of any doubt when it comes to Pakistan being the supporter/promoter of Terrorism directed into India alongwith it being the epicentre of Global Terrorism. One hopes that the current plainspeaking is not being resorted to only as advance Electioneering.   Peter Preston does some plainspeaking too.   ( truck⋅le = to submit or yield obsequiously or tamely )     Kshmendra     "Truckling to the Taliban" -Peter Preston   (Pakistan's 1.4m military shies away from fighting the extremists. It must show whose side it's on)   Listen, for far in the distance one can hear the sound of a great tin cup rattling. The president of Pakistan tells the newest president on the block (via the Washington Post) that his country could be "the most critical external problem" facing the US. And he wants "aggressive, innovative action" against the forces of darkness. But for Pakistan to defeat the extremists, it must be stable - and economically viable. So give us the money, and necessary military hardware, too. Then together we can try to do something about Afghanistan and our collapsing region - your slightly desperate friend, Asif Ali Zardari.   Well, that's the story of the last 30 years - perhaps even the basic story of Pakistan's short existence. Hang tight with whoever happens to be in the White House and hope that he delivers enough goods to keep us afloat. But now, perhaps, there's a new answer building. Ask not what the US treasury can do for you - ask, rather, what you can do for America. And, first, ask Pakistan's million-plus military. (Immediately deployable men, 650,000; plus 350,000 paramilitary, and reservists and reserve reservists, making 1.4 million in a crisis - the seventh biggest national defence total in the world.)   Turn those big figures inside out. Short of resources to fight the Taliban inside Pakistan as Nato's secretary general rattles his own tin cup? Anxious, if you're Obama, to wind down Iraqi deployments so you can bring critical mass to bear from Kabul to Helmand to the long, infinitely porous border with Pakistan? Then look at the troops already there or thereabouts on the ground.   Factor in some of Zardari's millions. "Unlike in the 1980s, we are surrogates for no one," he writes. "We need no lectures on our commitment. This is our war. It is our children and wives who are dying."   Very well. Then follow the logic and match his pretty desperate assertion against 60 years of war and constant tension. Pakistan's army is the largest, most omnipresent political player in the country. Four of its leaders have doubled as military dictators - rivalling mere elected politicians in time served at the top. The army, in that sense, is effectively a political party itself, seizing power when the quasi-democrats fail and relinquishing it when their popularity begins to run dry. And, within that neat game of pass the power parcel, there are well-oiled wheels within wheels. Retired top brass don't go home to the Punjab and sit on their porches: they run corporations, found factories, open carpet emporiums and travel agencies. In sum, they accumulate nice little earners, wrapped safe by the nest-feathering activities of previous army generations. Putting on the braid is one of the best insurance policies in the world.   And who - as America pours in more billions of dollars - is the main enemy here? Not those involved in "our war, where women and children are dying". No, as always, the alleged enemy is India, with Kashmir as casus belli. Military intelligence specialises in shadowy manoeuvres involving Kabul (where Indian influence is a supposed threat). Army deployment concentrates along the border with India, supposedly ready for any attack.   But it's irrelevant now. Nuclear weapons on both sides has made it irrelevant. And see how the puppet masters pull the strings. An attack in Mumbai leaves carnage in its wake. India prepares to react. Islamabad orders its Afghan frontier forces to head east to another frontier fast. Implied message: you can have one proper line of defence, but not two. There's an obvious answer to that.   Pakistan's president is right. "This is our war" being waged now and increasingly lost - not just on the Afghan border, but right through the North-West Frontier, where extremists can shut the Khyber Pass for days. So why shouldn't Obama make a totally fresh offer? Withdraw from the borders with India. We Americans will give all the guarantees necessary, plus some international troops on the ground to make that stick. And this, Mr Zardari, means you can flood the other border with your own surge. Instead of abandoning the Swat Valley and shrugging, you can take it back. Instead of truckling to the Taliban, you can do your own dirty work properly - and show, once and for all, whose side you're on.   What's the use of a 1.4 million military if it can't or won't fight the war it has on its hands? What's the use of feeding a beast with no will to win? Maybe Helmand and the rest need more troops as those who are there go on dying - but, over that lethal, open border, there's a mighty army busy doing not very much. Time for it to get on - or time for us to get out, and take our billions with us.   • p.preston at guardian.co.uk   guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media Limited 2009   http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/02/peter-preston-taliban-terrorism-military-pakistan                    From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Feb 3 18:00:55 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:30:55 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40902030348k5f16002by866cd3ba21a41081@mail.gmail.com> References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030348k5f16002by866cd3ba21a41081@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902030430k4ca827e1w729d1f34b89252e0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Bipin I take your word that this time Modi did not use HIndutva as an election strategy. This time the strategy it seems was more self aggrandizing. The 'Chappan ke Chaati', 'Maut ke Saudagar' or the 'Modi Masks' and so on. Modi's rhetoric was also carefully crafted to include the audience. There were reports about he used a uniquely christian strategy of catechisms to involve the audience. For instance how would ask a question, where do you think Lord Ram was born? The audience would reply in unison- Ayodhya. Then Mr. Modi would lampoon Congress, to the effect that- you, the common people of Gujarat know the answer to this question but those who are born in Italy and who now run our country think that Ram is a mythical figure. The audience will burst out laughing. It is also reported that each local RSS handlers were assigned a row of audience. They were given a list of all the questions and answers in advance and when when Mr.Modi spoke everybody in the audience was ready for an engaging drama. Where was 'development' in this strategy? If Mr. Modi is an efficient chief minister then why is it that more three crore people are dying of hunger in his state or are suffering from malnutrition and low body mass index. Regards Taha From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Feb 3 18:12:57 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:42:57 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-83 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902030442r30d3a003u302073d1277b3ac4@mail.gmail.com> http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2006/07/17/stories/2006071700340900.htm Business Daily from THE HINDU group of publications Monday, Jul 17, 2006 Continent going hi-tech on identity Mohan Murti Most European countries plan to switch to electronic cards (e-ID), which incorporate electronic signatures and biometrics. A driver that is pushing European governments into e-ID cards is the battle against identity theft. It was Roland Moreno, a Frenchman, who three decades ago, invented the Smart cards — plastic cards with microchips embedded in them. They were ignored by the US and the UK, but spread across the Continent, and the Far East, with massive roll-outs in banking, transport, insurance and healthcare sectors over the last quarter century. In modern Europe, the daily use of ID cards in railway stations and post-offices is ubiquitous. If anything, they make the queues move faster. Most view them with benign indifference. One by one, over the last century, the governments of most European Union member-states have taken the decision to introduce ID cards. View from Europe Over 400 million people across Europe, in 21 out of the 25 EU member-states, use ID cards. In only five countries currently — Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands, Greece and Spain — are ID cards mandatory. Even in these nations, citizens do not have to carry them at all times. Only the Netherlands has made them obligatory since January as a response to the threat of terrorism and illegal immigration. In Austria, Finland, Italy, Luxembourg, Portugal, Sweden, Norway and Switzerland they are voluntary though people tend to carry them because they find them convenient. In France, carrying ID card is voluntary, but is to become mandatory, to enable combat terrorism and illegal immigration. In the EU only Latvia, Denmark, Ireland and the UK have no ID cards. European ID cards are as of now paper or simple plastic cards with a magnetic strip. But all countries are planning to switch to electronic cards (e-ID), which incorporate electronic signatures and biometrics — fingerprints and/or facial and iris images. There are external pressures on European countries to make their ID cards electronic and biometric. The Schengen Treaty gives the right to the citizens of the Schengen countries to travel between them without passports. Most of these countries are upgrading their ID cards to double as travel documents, a function that ID cards did not have before. One European standard, already in operation, is Eurodac, a pan-EU system for checking up on asylum-seekers using fingerprints, so that they do not claim asylum in more than one country at the same time. This has already claimed successes in foiling fraudulent asylum applications, but is understandably not much publicised. Access to e-Transactions Many European countries see in e-ID cards an extension of the traditional policing purposes into something more positive: Giving the citizen secure access to e-government transactions. Belgium allows people to file tax returns only via their e-ID card. A driver that pushes European governments into e-ID cards is the battle against identity theft. They put their trust in the extra security given by the combination of an electronic signature with two biometric identifiers, face and fingerprint. This, they hope, will protect the citizen from the spammers, scammers, hackers out there in the Internet jungle. Hi-Tech Plans The British government has hi-tech plans for identity cards using the biometric technology. A legislation proposes a system of ID cards that will carry biometric identifiers in an embedded chip and be linked to a secure national database to be created by 2010. The government is working to make the ID cards compulsory for everyone living in the UK by 2011-12. The national database would hold personal information for each person carrying the ID card, such as name, address and biometric information including fingerprints and facial and iris scans. Crucial is the database that will eventually be linked to the EU's proposed registration programme. The European Commission has introduced regulations to use fingerprints and facial images on visas and resident permits for non-EU nationals. The biometric data is then stored on national and EU databases that are accessible through the Schengen Information System. The database is the key aspect of the system. What the UK government is proposing is quite unique and, of course, vast. A number of European countries, including Belgium and Latvia, have ID cards with links to information database, but those are used primarily as an entry to e-services, whereas the British plan is primarily about law and order. The biometric ID cards are a powerful weapon in any government's fight against identity fraud, illegal workers, illegal immigration, and terrorism. Technology In Belgium, the system has been useful in fighting illegal immigration. The police can just stop anyone on the street and ask for their ID. If you're in the country and you can't produce a card or some form of identity, then you're illegal. German officials also believe that the recent inclusion of biometric data has enhanced national security. EU smart card The ID card, the passport and the driving licence are being replaced by smart cards. In Italy, the new "documents" look like credit cards. Personal information is stored in an "optical memory strip" and in a microchip. Individuals have the option of including health and financial information on the card's digital record. The plan is that the cards will have multiple functions. The new Spanish model is billed as the world's first Internet ID card. The first one will be issued early next year. By sticking the card into a reader attached to a computer, people will be able to apply for a passport from home or do other official business with the state or local administration. In Germany, from 2007 onwards, new ID cards are likely to include a digital photo of the holder as well as fingerprints. In Belgium, a new card includes a smart chip with the holder's digital signature and an authentication certificate. It will let Belgians access many government services. Safeguarding Privacy Simply stated, Europe has done a fantastic job of safeguarding privacy. One major difference is that unlike in the US, European countries do not use anything akin to a Social Security number as a ubiquitous identifier. Navigation We live in a time of global uncertainty with an increased threat from international terrorism and organised crime. From recent experiences, it is apparent that the enemies of India are within India. We, therefore, must legislate and quickly introduce an identity cards scheme for every Indian and a compulsory registration scheme for non-Indians, to support the continuing fight against terrorism. (The author, a former Europe Director of the CII, lives in Cologne, Germany. Feedback may be sent to mohan.murti at t-online.de) From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Tue Feb 3 18:16:12 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 12:46:12 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-84 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902030446t6a8f5c87tad814a6c9d5729fe@mail.gmail.com> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/programmes/andrew_marr_show/7757215.stm BBC NEWS / ANDREW MARR SHOW 10:12 GMT, Sunday, 30 November 2008 Into conspiracy theory territory On Sunday 30 November, Andrew Marr interviewed Jacqui Smith MP - Home Secretary Please note 'The Andrew Marr Show' must be credited if any part of this transcript is used. The Home Secretary Jacqui Smith answers claims that the Conservative MP Damian Green was bugged. Jacqui Smith MP - Home Secretary ANDREW MARR: We've already spoken this morning about the horrific evidence in Mumbai and we've talked as well just now of course about that controversy over the arrest of the Conservative front bencher Damian Green. Now these are both matters for the Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith, who also has a raft of new measures from binge drinking to prostitution coming up in the next session of Parliament and she's with me now. Thank you indeed for coming in. Could we start with the terrorist issue because it's been widely said that this was a new kind of attack in Mumbai. This was not a long planned bombing, but this was a widespread raid of people who ran amuck with machine guns. Does that mean that we have to in this country revise the way that we've been thinking about potential attacks? JACQUI SMITH: Well, I mean the first thing to say is that you know this is clearly a very serious event in India. Our condolences of course go to those who've been killed and injured as part of it. Our first priority is to support both the Indian authorities and our nationals who have been involved in it. But yes, of course, we do need to look in terms of our own work on terrorism at whether or not and what lessons need to be learnt. We of course need to revise the very important work that we do on protecting our crowded places, our country as a whole from terrorism, to bear in mind any lessons that we learn from this and we will do that. But what it also of course identifies is what we have said, which is: We face a serious and sustained threat from terrorism, that is an international threat, it impacts potentially both on British nationals overseas and also on our interests and our country as well. ANDREW MARR: Now we don't think at this stage, do we, that there were British nationals involved in the terrorist group despite some earlier reports? JACQUI SMITH: Some of the earlier suggestions about this have actually been retracted. But we will of course need to look in detail... ANDREW MARR: Early days. JACQUI SMITH: ...at what actually happened, yeah. ANDREW MARR: We have very close contacts with Pakistan. If it turns out that this was a Pakistani based group, does that make Britain more vulnerable than we thought even before? JACQUI SMITH: Well the first priority I think is that we are clear about, and the Indian authorities are clear in their investigations, about what happened. Incidentally, I think it does create a test for what has been a warming of relations between India and Pakistan, which is fundamental to us in helping to protect us and them from terrorism. It's important that that is maintained and it's carried forward on a calm basis. But you know I mean actually we have always argued that we face a serious and sustained threat from terrorism in this country and that it has international links. That's part of the reason why our work, for example our longer term work to prevent people from turning to terrorism in the first place needs to operate both within the UK and internationally in third countries that we have important links with. ANDREW MARR: We have never seen an attack quite like this before though. I mean it must presumably mean quite a serious review of how we, you know we think about terrorist attacks because this is unlike anything else; it could happen here? JACQUI SMITH: Well what we do know is that international terrorism is able to develop, to evolve its threat and that therefore we need to evolve our response. We will look very carefully at the implications of this type of attack for our ability to be able to respond. It's in order that we're able to do that, that we have of course significantly increased the resource that we're devoting to terrorism. It's why we're in the process now of reviewing our counter-terrorism strategy. It's why we will look and we have already started to look at potential implications for our ability to be able to protect our infrastructure, our people in this country as well. ANDREW MARR: Let's turn to the other issue that sort of follows from that, I suppose, which is ID cards because you have made the case again and again that we need ID cards to help us against terrorism and that has been widely contested. At the moment the trials of ID cards seem, to put it politely, pretty thin. There's a very small number of people involved, there aren't government scanners which would allow proper information to be taken. Isn't this the moment - we're facing a huge economic problem, everybody presumably in government has been asked to look again at their budgets - to actually say okay, hands up, it's time to put this on ice, save a lot of money and turn to more traditional ways of combating terrorism? JACQUI SMITH: No. I mean first of all, Andrew, we have started just this week issuing ID cards to foreign nationals, you know so there is progress and this is a programme that is delivering. Secondly... ANDREW MARR: And you're going to carry on with it? JACQUI SMITH: Yes, we are going to carry on with it. Secondly, we have always said not that ID cards are the answer to terrorism, but frankly when the Al Qaeda training manual tells people; potential terrorists, that one of the things they should try and do is to get multiple identities, I think there is a link between actually enabling people to tie their identity to themselves and our battle against terrorism - secondly. And, thirdly, on the cost, you know let's be quite clear about this. Firstly, we've been extremely open about the ten year cost of ID cards. Secondly, that cost has come down as we've developed the scheme. And, thirdly, anybody - opposition politician or otherwise - who suggests that there is a large amount of money to be found in this scheme is frankly wrong. 70% of the money is actually required anyway to develop biometric passports. I hope there's nobody suggesting that we should be completely out of step with the rest of the world by not developing those. And the rest of it - one, will bring considerable benefits; and, two, will be covered by fees, as of course passport costs frequently are. ANDREW MARR: Well let's turn to the other big story in today's papers. Damian Green, an honourable opposition politician doing his job, holding your government to account finds nine anti-terrorist officers inside his house, ransacking every aspect of his private life - letters between his wife and himself. His daughter comes home in floods of tears to see this going on. Do you think before we start on any of the details that you owe Mr Green an apology? JACQUI SMITH: Well now let me be clear. Any police investigation that involves an investigation of a senior political figure or an elected representative, as incidentally we've seen in other investigations in recent years, is highly sensitive and decisions need to be taken very carefully about it. But let's just, I think, also take a step back and remind ourselves where this investigation started. It is not an investigation into whether or not opposition politicians use information that they receive to embarrass or hold to account the Government. That is a complete legitimate activity - it has gone on, it should go on, it will go on. This is an investigation, it started as an investigation of a systematic series of leaks from a department that deals with some of the most sensitive and confidential information in government. A systematic series of breaches of security, effectively. And the idea that my Permanent Secretary or the Cabinet Secretary would not have been concerned about this, I think is frankly unbelievable. ANDREW MARR: And yet given what happened to Mr Green - I come back to it - and given what happened to his family, do you not think you owe him an apology? JACQUI SMITH: Well you know what we appear to be being asked... ANDREW MARR: The answer seems to be no. JACQUI SMITH: Well what we appear to be being asked to do by former home secretaries, by the Leader of the Opposition is to intervene in a specific investigation being carried out by the police who you know actually I... ANDREW MARR: So this kind of stuff's alright? JACQUI SMITH: No, wait a minute. Who I do believe, when they start an investigation should, as they have said they need to, follow the evidence where it takes them. Now I started, Andrew, by saying that I think when it's an investigation that involves senior politicians and elected representatives, as others have, that it's extremely sensitive and decisions need to be taken very carefully. But frankly... ANDREW MARR: So the four leaks that were being discussed, which one of those was to do with national security? JACQUI SMITH: Wait a minute, Andrew. There are four leaks that are in the public arena. The point is that this started as an investigation into a systematic series of leaks about which of course it wasn't clear what had been leaked and what may not have been leaked. So the fact that something is in the public domain doesn't mean that those are the only leaks that have gone on. ANDREW MARR: Well a leak tends to be... That's the definition of a leak, I would have thought, that it's in the public domain. JACQUI SMITH: Well actually... ANDREW MARR: But moving on from that, when did you know... Let's start right at the beginning. Who initiated the original leak inquiry? JACQUI SMITH: Well that was initiated by the Cabinet Office alongside my Permanent Secretary because, as I say, you know actually breaches of security from a department that deals with some of the most confidential and sensitive information in government... ANDREW MARR: And you knew right from the beginning? JACQUI SMITH: ...are important. ANDREW MARR: You knew right from the beginning? JACQUI SMITH: I knew that there was a leak inquiry. I knew that there was an investigation. ANDREW MARR: And did you yourself ask for a leak inquiry? JACQUI SMITH: I did not ask for it myself. ANDREW MARR: Did any other minister ask for it that you're aware of? JACQUI SMITH: No. ANDREW MARR: Right. When your civil servant was arrested on 11th, you presumably knew about that? JACQUI SMITH: Yes. ANDREW MARR: Did you know about that in advance? JACQUI SMITH: I knew that there was an investigation going on in advance and I knew that there was likely to be action taken against one of our officials in advance, yes. ANDREW MARR: Right. That was on 11th November. When did you, when you were told that Damian, or indeed a Conservative front bencher, was the subject of a police investigation? JACQUI SMITH: I was told about the search and about the arrest after it had happened. ANDREW MARR: What about my original question, which is when did you know that he was the subject of the investigation? JACQUI SMITH: Well I didn't know specifically who was the subject of the investigation. And incidentally, Andrew... ANDREW MARR: Sorry, did you know... JACQUI SMITH: ...nor do I... No, I'm saying I didn't... ANDREW MARR: It's quite important. I know, but did you know that a Conservative MP was being investigated before the arrest of Damian Green? JACQUI SMITH: No because what I think is important here is that actually the police are able to use their professional judgement to pursue an investigation. And, frankly, you know there have been a lot of charges thrown around here - the idea that you know this is Stalinism, this is a police state. In my book, Stalinism and a police state happens where ministers direct and interfere with specific investigations that the police are carrying out. And I have been very clear that in my view the police should have operational independence, they should be able to pursue investigations in the way in which their professional judgement suggests. I don't know what evidence they are looking at. ANDREW MARR: So... JACQUI SMITH: Incidentally, neither do any of the other people that are commenting. And I do think it is important that if you believe in the principle of operational independence for policing, you believe in that even when they are difficult and sensitive investigations. ANDREW MARR: So you knew nothing about an opposition front bencher going to be arrested by counter-terrorism police and it's right that as Home Secretary you knew nothing? JACQUI SMITH: No, I think it is right that I knew that there was an investigation going on. I did not know before the arrest that that particular front bench spokesman or any front bench spokesman was about to be searched and arrested. But actually what I think is right is that once the investigation is underway and the police are pursuing and gathering detailed evidence and using their professional judgement as to where that goes, that politicians shouldn't interfere in that detailed operation. ANDREW MARR: Damian Green... JACQUI SMITH: That's the view that I take. ANDREW MARR: Damian Green clearly believes that he was bugged - that his BlackBerry was bugged, his phone was bugged. Now if that was the case, you would have had to have approved that, wouldn't you? JACQUI SMITH: If that were the case, I would have signed a warrant. ANDREW MARR: Did you sign any such warrant? JACQUI SMITH: Andrew... No. Andrew... ANDREW MARR: Sorry, I just... these are quite important questions. JACQUI SMITH: Well because I'm sorry, Andrew, home secretaries don't confirm or deny which warrants they have or have not signed. But, frankly, you know let me be clear about this, we are getting totally into conspiracy theory territory here. ANDREW MARR: So you didn't sign such a warrant? JACQUI SMITH: Totally into conspiracy theory territory. ANDREW MARR: You didn't sign such a warrant. As a politician, do you think it is appropriate that on a matter like this, which is about leaks, embarrassing leaks - they may be to do with public security but so far they've just been embarrassing leaks - that a politician, senior politician doing his job has his house invaded by nine anti-terrorist police who then hold him for hours and hours, who then go into the House of Commons, breaking parliamentary privilege and do the same thing there - surely as a politician, you can't approve of this? JACQUI SMITH: Andrew, you have made a series of assertions about what this investigation is about. Now frankly, Andrew, you don't have the evidence that the police are looking at at the moment. Neither do I. Let me... ANDREW MARR: So it's a lot more serious than we know, is it? JACQUI SMITH: Well let me... Well you know the point is that let me remind us where we started. This was about a series of breaches of security in a department that deals with some of the most confidential and sensitive information across government - a systematic series of leaks. I think it is right that investigation should happen there. What I've also said, and I started by saying this, is that you know this is not about politicians being able to use information that they come across to hold the Government to account, even to embarrass the Government. That is and should always be able to happen. But you know to return to where this investigation started, the idea that the senior Civil Service or myself as Home Secretary would not be concerned about the operation of our department given the series of leaks that we face, I think would have been wrong. ANDREW MARR: Alright. One last go. I think a lot of people watching will be very, very surprised, given what has happened to Mr Green and his family, that you do not feel able to apologise to him. JACQUI SMITH: Well what I've said to you, Andrew, is that if you believe in the operational independence of policing, if you believe that the professional judgement of police officers during the course of an investigation should be able to take its course, well you believe that even when things are tricky and sensitive. The idea that you charge into impact on operational independence when things get a bit hot is not a principled position. I believe in the principle of the operational independence of policing and that's what I'm carrying out. ANDREW MARR: Let me ask you about binge drinking, which is going to be probably the centrepiece of some of what you're announcing in the Queen's Speech. We've had lots and lots of initiatives about binge drinking over the years. This is another one. Why is this one going to work when the others haven't? JACQUI SMITH: Well can I just say first of all on the Queen's speech, there will be a series of measures that are about actually ensuring that the rules we live by in this country are fair, that we're on the side of those people who are law abiding. There is a particular issue about drinking that we will want to take action on and that's to say whilst we've seen crime linked to alcohol actually coming down by a third over the last ten years, there is still concern about alcohol-linked crime and disorder. You know I don't think any of us want to have our city centres with people you know lying on the pavements and being sick. All of us have a responsibility, therefore, to take action on that. That is additional support for the police, which we will provide, and it's also saying that industry has to take a responsibility alongside that as well. Which is why what we'll be looking at is how we can strengthen the standards that we expect, particularly around irresponsible promotion of alcohol. We've consulted on whether or not that should be in the form of a mandatory code. I think it should be mandatory in terms of certain conditions around licensing that focus on the most irresponsible forms of promotion of drink. ANDREW MARR: Do you not think that this government in relaxing the licensing laws in the first place is partly responsible for what's happened? JACQUI SMITH: Well actually the evidence doesn't suggest that. It suggests actually that since the Licensing Act, there have been effectively an unchanged level of incidents related to alcohol. But I think what we do know is that people are concerned about both irresponsible promotions of drink and the impact of that, yes, on people's health, also on crime and disorder, and that's why... And also as well they're concerned about the impact on young people. So those are the areas that we want to focus our efforts on. ANDREW MARR: So to be clear, can you stop for instance two for one drink promotions, women drink free - all of those kind of things that people have been talking about? JACQUI SMITH: I think those are the things that we should be saying, you know, are unreasonable. Incidentally, the industry had a set of voluntary standards that should have helped us to make progress on those. We asked for an independent review of those voluntary standards, which suggested that really they weren't being implemented in the way in which they should do. That's why we will now bring forward proposals for mandatory conditions on everybody, whether on the on trade or the off trade off-licences or pubs and bars, supermarkets who sell alcohol to stop some of those most irresponsible promotions. You know and I think you've identified some of them - the idea that you pay a set price and drink as much as you can for the evening; the idea that if you're a woman and you go into a bar, you get to drink free; the idea that you might be running sort of games or promotions that actually encourage people drinking. And incidentally other things like you know making sure smaller glasses are available alongside larger glasses. ANDREW MARR: Alongside the big ones. Alright. For now, Jacqui Smith, thank you very much indeed for joining us. INTERVIEW ENDS Please note "The Andrew Marr Show" must be credited if any part of this transcript is used. NB: This transcript was typed from a recording and not copied from an original script. Because of the possibility of mis-hearing and the difficulty, in some cases, of identifying individual speakers, the BBC cannot vouch for its accuracy Andrew Marr Show From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Tue Feb 3 18:46:02 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 05:16:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <65be9bf40902021114g68ac97bbi88ae934087702f8c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <674470.47441.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Taha   No problem. I will rephrase what I tried to convey.   Before doing that, I must admit to my guilt. My ability to express myself in English does not match your understanding of the language.   But, perhaps Taha you could be a bit considerate and patiently make an effort to understand what is being said. The same consideration and patience that at least I, if not others too, show towards the profusion of postings from you on the very important topic of MNICs.   No, I will not state or argue that the issue of MNIC is 'trivial'. So I am ignoring your subsequent lecture taking off from ' MNIC in a material sense is nothing but a summation of triviality'. That is your philosophical take on it. You are welcome to it.    Nor do I find 'trivial' your arguments about MNIC.     What I tried to convey in my last post was that you 'trivialised' the discussion by making a comment that is not befitting of a 'person of research' that you are. Since you seem to be confused, I will restate it; you did not 'trivialise' the topic of MNIC but you 'trivialised' the discussion on it. I will explain   Your comment that I am referring to  "I find it amusing as I do not understand why there seems to be so much of faith in a smart id card to deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now ........."   Who's position is it that "...a smart id card (will) ..deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now"? ALL THE ILL???? Who has said that the MNIC will deliver us from 'all the ill that India is facing right now?   By attributing such a position to those who might be in favour of the MNIC, you misrepresent (and misinterpret) arguments. Thereby you trivialise the discussion and also inject falsity into your research.   I called ridiculous your analogy of "doctor / patient / untested-drug" because of the same unsubstantiated above comment of yours. The premise on which the the analogy was put forward did not exist. So the analogy was inapt.   There are those who speak in favour of having a MNIC and how it will be beneficial in various spheres. Then there are those who question the efficacy of the MNIC. Only an idiot will argue or state that the MNIC will "deliver India from all ill" and only an idiot will argue or state that the MNIC will be of no benefit at all.   I can understand and appreciate your fears about the MNIC in terms of  ' abuse of privacy'; 'possibilities of abuse by the State'; ' expenditure outlay that could be better directed' as well as 'questions about establising identity or erasing identity'. Unfortunately, I am not competent or knowledgeable enough to engage with you on these issues. Others on this List are and will. Some already have brainstormed with you over the philosophy of 'identity'.   Kshmendra --- On Tue, 2/3/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood To: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 12:44 AM Dear Kshmendra   I am sorry I could not understand your argument at all. Could you please elaborate as to what it is that you want to convey? I am floored by your acute eye for detail  and in applying your analytical faculties in coming to a conclusion that you find my interpretation of arguments concerning MNIC, trivial.   Please do not get perturbed because I think as far as the plethora of issues in India is concerned, perhaps it could be argued that MNIC is trivial.   There is nothing in wrong in an issue to be interpreted as trivial as long as one can create new imaginations, newer meanings in that triviality. Come to think of it, MNIC in a material sense is nothing but a summation of triviality. The chip which is going to be in the card is a trivial piece of plastic and silicon. The information which this chip contains will be in trivial bytes and bites. The gigantic archive which a national population register will become eventually will be formed of trivial doses of information. Not only that, MNIC will be used for rather trivial purposes like buying a bus ticket or a train ticket or opening a bank account or going to school. I shall not show surprise if a future government issues an order for a MNIC reader to be installed in all auto rickshaws and all our trivial rides in a city is recorded through a reader. Hence perhaps I am not be that off the mark in engaging in a trivial interpretation of MNIC. At the same time I do not think that just because a thing can be imagined as trivial, we must not bother to accord it any seriousness. I think that even in its triviality MNIC presents us with a serious set of questions. I have on my part tried to raise some of the questions that I forsee in the idea of a national identity card. I do not want to argue either in favour or against the introduction of national identity card because I feel that it is a policy matter and as I have said time and again I am not capable to influence any policy. I am interested in the idea of a national identity card. And I would very much like to hear what you think about this idea.   Regards   Taha    --- On Mon, 2/2/09, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: From: Kshmendra Kaul Subject: Re: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood To: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 5:38 PM Dear Taha   You wrote ".... faith in a smart id card to deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now"   It is your interpretation that it will "deliver us from all the ill". It is sad to see you (a person of research) trivialising arguments that might have been given in favour of the MNIC and misinterpreting them so that you can be sarcasticaly dismissive . You go on to give a  ridiculous analogy of doctor / patient / untested-drug.   Kshmendra   --- On Sun, 2/1/09, Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> wrote: From: Taha Mehmood <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> Subject: Re: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood To: "Sandeep" Cc: "reader-list at sarai.net" Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 6:51 PM Dear Sandeep Thank you for your response. I find your argument compelling not because of its tone of resignation or because it suggests an epicurean view to engage with the social world but because in your argument I feel an urge to let go the dominant ideas of the day and move on. There is of course nothing wrong in following a line of thinking where one consciously rejects any exercise to interpret dominant ideas in order to generate new forms of meaning instead take these ideas as given and carrying on with one's life. However, in my view and my sensibility as a researcher, which is very limited and limiting field in many ways, I would rather invest as much time and energy as I could in investigating these ideas, while suspending judgment and making new meaning. The reason being, it think, it is a worthwhile time-pass to inquire into the relationship between a man and his environment. This is not to compare it with or negate an epicurean view that you so lucidly suggests but to assert that an inquiry into ideas is not unworthy at all. In this regard if we view our life as a journey in a sea of ideas, the current of identity attracts me the most. This current, must I add, is a strong current, a deep current and a current which seems to be moving a lot of other ideas of this day. From what ever little I have inquired into the origins of this current, I have come up with no clear answer. We as a human race have existed for over five thousand years. Many people have come and gone in this time. Some of them when they were alive took time off from drinking beer to think and reflect on this current of identity. But still we do not have a clear picture as to how this current originated, evolved and turned into this great force which seems to sweeping us all. If there is fundamental conceptual confusion on hand, on the other there seems to be a superficial confidence on part of the national governments and the corporates regarding identity. And it seems that in pursuit of harnessing profit and power they have found two legitimizing arguments- one is poverty and the other is (in)security. We all know how callous any form of power is when it comes to servicing the needs of the most vulnerable sections of a society, hence instead of diverting our money which it takes taxes, to make sure that poorest of the poor get two square meals of food a day, power of the day is indulging in new excuses, like now it wants everyone to be fingerprinted to be identified as its own. What does this tells us-firstly, does power thinks that all of us are criminals? because finger printing till yesterday was only done on criminals and secondly, even after repeatedly carrying out identification exercises for over last one hundred and thirty years, power is not able to either comprehensively conjecture or comprehensively speculate about the nature of identity. I find it amusing as I do not understand why there seems to be so much of faith in a smart id card to deliver us from all the ill that India is facing right now because we do not know what the 'I' in MNIC stands for or what 'id' in a smart id card means. Imagine this- Picture our nation as a body. Now this body is afflicted with twin diseases-poverty and (in)security. Imagine the market (the corporates, the MNC's, the producers and manufacturers) as an expert. Like a doctor. Now this doctor tells the patient to take a drug, in this case, it is a smart id card. The person whose body it is takes this drug trusting the doctor. The doctor takes his fee and scoots off. Now you tell me what will happen to the body, if the drug is made of some known and some unknown chemicals? Will the body react favourably to such a treatment? or Will the body look forward to more such doses? Just think about it. We can always have more conversations on this. Warm regards Taha     From jeebesh at sarai.net Tue Feb 3 19:32:51 2009 From: jeebesh at sarai.net (jeebesh at sarai.net) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:32:51 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Global update Message-ID: Crisis heightens danger of global social unrest SOURCE: http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20090203/world-news/crisis-heightens-danger-of-global-social-unrest France Hundreds of thousands of strikers marched in French cities on Thursday to demand pay rises and job protection. Some protesters clashed with police, but no major violence was reported. The one-day strike failed to paralyse the country and support from private sector workers appeared limited. Labour leaders hailed the action, which marked the first time France's eight union federations had joined forces against the government since President Nicolas Sarkozy took office in 2007. Russia Thousands of opposition supporters rallied in Moscow and the far east port of Vladivostok on Saturday in a national day of protests over hardships caused by the financial crisis. Street rallies were held in almost every major city. The pro-Kremlin United Russia party also drew thousands to rallies in support of government anti-crisis measures. About 100 protesters were arrested in Vladivostok last month during protests against hikes in second hand car import duties aimed at protecting jobs in the domestic car industry. Madagascar More than 100 people were killed in civil unrest in Madagascar last week, according to the US ambassador. Police previously confirmed 44 deaths, with most of those in a store burned during looting when an anti-government protest degenerated into violence. The mayor of Antananarivo, Andry Rajoelina, galvanised popular frustrations to spearhead demonstrations and strikes against President Marc Ravalomanana's government. The violence came amid an oil and minerals exploration boom in Madagascar. Iceland Parties forming a new coalition for the crisis-hit island decided on Sunday its new prime minister will be former Social Affairs Minister Johanna Sigurdardottir. Prime Minister Geir Haarde resigned last week after a series of protests, some of which had turned violent. He was the first leader to fall as a direct result of the credit crunch. The collapse of the country's fast-expanding banks under a weight of debt forced the country to take a €7.8 billion IMF-led rescue package and sparked widespread anger. Davos Hundreds of people rallied in Geneva and Davos on Saturday to protest against the World Economic Forum, saying the elite gathered for its annual meeting are not qualified to fix the world's problems. In Geneva, where the WEF has its headquarters, police in riot gear fired teargas and water canon to disperse a crowd. Britain Thousands of energy workers staged walkouts on Friday in protest over the use of foreign labour, fearing for their jobs in what is set to be the worst recession in the world's major economies. Contractors at a refinery owned by France's Total began protests on Wednesday after Italian firm IREM won a contract to build a new unit. Unions say it has brought in workers from Italy and Portugal and deprived Britons of work. Greece Greek farmers removed roadblocks last week which caused 11 days of travel chaos across the country as they protested against low prices. They kept their blockade on Bulgaria's border and central Greece. High youth unemployment was a main driver for rioting in Greece in December, initially sparked by the police shooting of a youth in an Athens neighbourhood. The protests forced a government reshuffle. Guadeloupe France sent a minister to the Caribbean island on Sunday for talks aimed at ending a 13-day general strike over pay and prices that has paralysed the French territory. An alliance of 47 unions and local bodies launched their protest on January 20 over the cost of living. They have drawn up a list of 146 demands including a €200 euro increase in the minimum salary, a freeze on rents and a cut in taxes and food prices. Island authorities have rejected the demands. Bulgaria Hundreds of Bulgarians demanded economic and social reforms in the face of a global slowdown in anti-government rallies last month, calling on the Socialist-led government to act or step down. Earlier last month, hundreds of protesters clashed with police, smashed windows and damaged cars in Sofia when a rally against corruption and slow reforms in the face of the economic crisis turned into a riot. Latvia A 10,000-strong protest in Latvia on January 16 descended into a riot, with protesters trying to storm parliament before going on the rampage. Government steps to cut wages, as part of an austerity plan to win international aid, have angered people. Lithuania Also on January 16, police fired teargas to disperse demonstrators who pelted parliament with stones in protest at government cuts in social spending to offset an economic slowdown. Police said 80 people were detained and 20 injured. Prime Minister Andrius Kubilius said the violence would not stop an austerity plan launched after a slide in output and revenues. From indersalim at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 19:46:40 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:46:40 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendra thanks for response. I repeat, the concluding line " I am talking on my own behalf " So i dont see myself speaking on Yasin Malik's behalf. By the way, i have casually seen him in a gathering in Delhi, at the place where Delhi Police was duty bound to ensure his safety. i have never met him, let alone discussion on Kashmir. i wish you had reflected my piece on Yasin Malik's choice a little more seriously. I talked about some other issues as well, which might even anger Yasin Malik even. The elected Govt in J&K too realizes the inevitability of Hurriyat in any talks about Kashmir issue. We all know what happened in 1990. How much we all suffered and how badly it was handled, not only by those who initiated it, but even by insincere politicians in Delhi. History will laugh on Jagmohan, former Governer, who imposed ban on Sheep slaughter in Kashmir on Hindu sacred days. Well, people in general have a tendency to forgive anything that seemingly qualifies for so called National interests, even when their actions are more serious than murder. I dont know how to describe a murderer, when i have thousands of different types of criminals roaming freely in our country. Take for example George Fernandes, was he simply a Trade Unionist, or he actually indulged in some terror tactics during his early phase of political life? Was Yasir Arafat a politician from the beginning? NO. but he was most honored guest of India always, of course, for all the right reasons. The visible end of politics which we are familiar with is in fact its Reality's tip of ice berg . Now, do we see Indira's Emergency as murderous as Yasin's 1990's killings? Now, how will you explain the birth of Bindranwwalla , the sikh terrorist, whose death and operation Blue star caused the assassination of Indira Gandhi ji. How the Govt. of India will explain to us the emergence of Prabhakarn who was supported by India as much as Kashmiris are supported by Pakistan. Now , how many criminals are there in our Parliament ? How many hundreds of corporates are hand in glove with the Govt. who give death to poor people in villages by polluting the simple drinking water. Are they murderers? or decent citizens of our society because they have money, legal support and Nationalist tag on their lapels. I might digress from your main concern: Yasin Malik the murderer. By the way, has Govt of India a case against him ? Back in Kashmir, it is most interesting to see how the parties who rigged elections openly in 1987-88 in Kashmir are back in power. Now rigging elections certainly qualifies as Murder of Democracy, and see, all the intellectuals of India have nothing but praise for this unique grand slam National Double who saved Kashmir for India. Blood on the hands of both National Conference and Indira Congress is still wet, if you ask me, but no, we swoon the moment Abdullah Jr. says " i am Indian". Dynasty rule itself smells scandalous. But alas, we have a school for such a scandal in India. We have children of the erestwhile politicians at the helm and we are happy to see India marching ahead this way. And why should we even talk about that, let us blindly accept the norm and ignore the wiser nuance. After all who needs reasoning these days. but let us at least feel guilty. Times are such that our next Home Minister might be Sanjay Dutt who knowingly bought hand grenades, and other lethal weapons from those who were directly responsible for Bombay serial Blasts. Two cheers for Indian Democracy with love and regards inder salim On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Inder Salim > > You are playing advisor to and policy strategist for Yasin Malik a > self-admitted murderer. Yasin, who amongst others led (post 1947) the > introduction of Islamic Terrorism into Kashmir. Yasin who ostensibly > eschewed the path of violence, yet continued to have links with Terrorist > Organisations. Yasin the Terrorist. > > Kshmendra > > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, indersalim wrote: > > From: indersalim > Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice > To: "reader-list" > Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 8:39 PM > > Dear all > Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, > the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is > interesting. > > http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx > > I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin > Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of > the > Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. > > Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that > applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously > he grasped the Kashmir issue. > > Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. > Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and > going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as > his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to > stay behind veil all the time. > > One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( > predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a > Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, > but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, > particularly for women. > > Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take > Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi > but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his > choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the > cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his > choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will > he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? > > Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly > about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has > any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens > to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But > slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the > cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this > issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like > that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. > Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and > dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. > > The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. > I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues > like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak > about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a > sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival > of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. > > This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free > election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still > have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every > other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously > gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very > much there, as significant as ever. > > Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir > Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to > understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority > area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to > Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the > troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir > was divided. What is LOC after all? > > I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I > hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself > looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with > some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root > level and beyond. > > Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of > living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is > openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, > which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. > So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. > > So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , > and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of > office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines > against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation > is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? > > Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking > on my own behalf. > > With love and regards > Inder salim > > > -- > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe > in > the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > -- http://indersalim.livejournal.com From vashsand at hotmail.com Tue Feb 3 21:58:20 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:28:20 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] indian culture Message-ID: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7866478.stm India couple's kiss 'not obscene' Public displays of affection and sex are still largely taboo in India A court in India has dismissed criminal proceedings against a married couple charged with obscenity for allegedly kissing in public in the capital. The Delhi high court judge wondered how an "expression of love by a young married couple" could attract an obscenity charge. Police arrested the couple - a 28-year-old man and a 23-year-old woman - for kissing near a station last September. Public displays of affection are still largely taboo in India. The police in Delhi had begun criminal proceedings against the couple for "sitting in an objectionable position near a metro (railway station) pillar and kissing due to which passersby were feeling bad". The maximum punishment for committing an "obscene act" is three months in prison. Judge S Muralidhar quashed the criminal proceedings. He said that even if police reports were accurate "it is inconceivable how... an expression of love by a young married couple would attract an offence of obscenity and trigger the coercive process of law". The judge expressed surprise that the couple had been picked up and charged by police despite officers being told that they were married. Controversies Reports say the couple denied in their petition to the court they were kissing. They said they were taking self portraits on their mobile phones. Richard Gere sparked protests in India after he kissed Shilpa Shetty The lawyer who contested the case for the couple told a Delhi newspaper: "Obscenity charges are attracted when an act is so obscene that it encourages depravity or annoys the public. "In this case both these contents are missing, because the charge sheet is silent on any passersby as originally claimed." Kissing in public in India has triggered controversies in the past. In 2007, Hollywood actor Richard Gere sparked protests in India after kissing Celebrity Big Brother winner and Bollywood actor Shilpa Shetty at an Aids awareness rally in Delhi. The protesters said Gere had insulted Indian culture by kissing the hand and face of the actress. In 2005, a court in Rajasthan imposed a fine of $22 on an Israeli couple for kissing after getting married in a traditional Hindu ceremony in Pushkar. Priests were offended when the couple kissed and hugged during the chanting of religious verses. In 2004, Bollywood film star Kareena Kapoor began legal proceedings against a tabloid newspaper that published photos of her kissing her co-star. She and Shahid Kapoor said the photos were doctored and were not of them. India couple's kiss 'not obscene' Public displays of affection and sex are still largely taboo in India A court in India has dismissed criminal proceedings against a married couple charged with obscenity for allegedly kissing in public in the capital. The Delhi high court judge wondered how an "expression of love by a young married couple" could attract an obscenity charge. Police arrested the couple - a 28-year-old man and a 23-year-old woman - for kissing near a station last September. Public displays of affection are still largely taboo in India. The police in Delhi had begun criminal proceedings against the couple for "sitting in an objectionable position near a metro (railway station) pillar and kissing due to which passersby were feeling bad". The maximum punishment for committing an "obscene act" is three months in prison. Judge S Muralidhar quashed the criminal proceedings. He said that even if police reports were accurate "it is inconceivable how... an expression of love by a young married couple would attract an offence of obscenity and trigger the coercive process of law". The judge expressed surprise that the couple had been picked up and charged by police despite officers being told that they were married. Controversies Reports say the couple denied in their petition to the court they were kissing. They said they were taking self portraits on their mobile phones. Richard Gere sparked protests in India after he kissed Shilpa Shetty The lawyer who contested the case for the couple told a Delhi newspaper: "Obscenity charges are attracted when an act is so obscene that it encourages depravity or annoys the public. "In this case both these contents are missing, because the charge sheet is silent on any passersby as originally claimed." Kissing in public in India has triggered controversies in the past. In 2007, Hollywood actor Richard Gere sparked protests in India after kissing Celebrity Big Brother winner and Bollywood actor Shilpa Shetty at an Aids awareness rally in Delhi. The protesters said Gere had insulted Indian culture by kissing the hand and face of the actress. In 2005, a court in Rajasthan imposed a fine of $22 on an Israeli couple for kissing after getting married in a traditional Hindu ceremony in Pushkar. Priests were offended when the couple kissed and hugged during the chanting of religious verses. In 2004, Bollywood film star Kareena Kapoor began legal proceedings against a tabloid newspaper that published photos of her kissing her co-star. She and Shahid Kapoor said the photos were doctored and were not of them. _________________________________________________________________ Drag n’ drop—Get easy photo sharing with Windows Live™ Photos. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/photos.aspx From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 22:11:02 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 22:11:02 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> Inder Salim, You have a habit of retracting from your past statements. First you suggest everyone to hear out barbarian Yasin Malik, and try to develop our interest towards his 'political economy student' and artist wife. Now, what makes you believe that Kshmendra thinks you wrote on behalf of Islamic Terrorist Yasin Malik ? ..which further makes you clarify that 'You are talking on your own behalf". Isn't that already understood or else you know we doubt your intentions very well ? Anyways.. You wrote your first e-mail as if you see in murderer Yasin Malik a new ray of hope, a leader or a person who can represent you. Unfortunately, you are not aware of his past acts or casually as always ignore them. What change will he make to the environment? He has already killed hundreds of innocents and raped women. By his cowardly acts of Islamic Terror, half a million minority Hindus had to flee overnight to a safe shelter. It would be interesting to see the political significance of Yasin Malik's strange step of marriage at a point when separatists and criminals like him are being ignored by one and all. Their shops are out of stock and on the verge of extinction. Least to say just as in the past, their ideas are as bankrupt. Wonder what you wanted to convey by such an elaborate on this worthless creature Yasin malik ? Shouldn't he rather respect the people for whom he claims to work; and take a bold decision to retire from 'Ego Politics' which Kashmiri Muslims are famous for? Enough of his PR hungry - hunger strikes to get International Attention. And, enough of his dramas of so called freedom. its time he surrenders for the crimes he committed against humanity. Hurriyat contesting elections. lol You kidding me Inder. Do they even have support in two and a half districts of Kashmir ? I'll post an article for your knowledge next on this joke. He (Yasin Malik) has no right to even utter the words 'Kashmiri Pandits; from his filthy mouth. Kashmiri Pandits will return to the valley only after the painful death of this bastard Yasin Malik. He should know how it feels when bullet passes through his empty skull! It is strange...Yes it very Strange why a Political Economy student of LSE would marry a third rate, uneducated, uncivilised, criminal and butcher - Yasin Malik. A lot must have happened behind the curtains in bygone months. It is important to note here that the would be wife's brother Haider is US based strategic expert. And, Multah Mallick hasn't even landed in Kashmir that flowers have already started showering in. Asiya Andrabi being the very first in the over-crowded separatist band wagon to declare an unofficial fatwa on them. Wonder if the nude paintings by Multah Mallick would be gifted to Syed Ali Shah Geelani to decorate his living room? Inder..you didn't observe all the paintings by Multah as can be seen. There is one very original work titled 'Questioning Life..". I would be insane if I say, this could be her post-marriage reality. Yasin Malik isn't Tom Cruise you see. he is blood thirsty devil. Please leave development, environment and other key issues for young Omar Abdullah to handle. Introspection on your 'own behalf' does certainly sound great. Isn't it ? Love In exile.. In waiting.. On 2/3/09, indersalim wrote: > > Dear Kshmendra > > thanks for response. > > I repeat, the concluding line " I am talking on my own behalf " So i > dont see myself speaking on Yasin Malik's behalf. By the way, i have > casually seen him in a gathering in Delhi, at the place where Delhi > Police was duty bound to ensure his safety. i have never met him, let > alone discussion on Kashmir. > > i wish you had reflected my piece on Yasin Malik's choice a little > more seriously. I talked about some other issues as well, which might > even anger Yasin Malik even. The elected Govt in J&K too realizes the > inevitability of Hurriyat in any talks about Kashmir issue. > > We all know what happened in 1990. How much we all suffered and how > badly it was handled, not only by those who initiated it, but even by > insincere politicians in Delhi. History will laugh on Jagmohan, former > Governer, who imposed ban on Sheep slaughter in Kashmir on Hindu > sacred days. Well, people in general have a tendency to forgive > anything that seemingly qualifies for so called National interests, > even when their actions are more serious than murder. > > I dont know how to describe a murderer, when i have thousands of > different types of criminals roaming freely in our country. Take for > example George Fernandes, was he simply a Trade Unionist, or he > actually indulged in some terror tactics during his early phase of > political life? Was Yasir Arafat a politician from the beginning? NO. > but he was most honored guest of India always, of course, for all the > right reasons. The visible end of politics which we are familiar with > is in fact its Reality's tip of ice berg . > > Now, do we see Indira's Emergency as murderous as Yasin's 1990's > killings? Now, how will you explain the birth of Bindranwwalla , the > sikh terrorist, whose death and operation Blue star caused the > assassination of Indira Gandhi ji. How the Govt. of India will explain > to us the emergence of Prabhakarn who was supported by India as much > as Kashmiris are supported by Pakistan. > > Now , how many criminals are there in our Parliament ? How many > hundreds of corporates are hand in glove with the Govt. who give > death to poor people in villages by polluting the simple drinking > water. Are they murderers? or decent citizens of our society because > they have money, legal support and Nationalist tag on their lapels. > > I might digress from your main concern: Yasin Malik the murderer. By > the way, has Govt of India a case against him ? > > Back in Kashmir, it is most interesting to see how the parties who > rigged elections openly in 1987-88 in Kashmir are back in power. Now > rigging elections certainly qualifies as Murder of Democracy, and see, > all the intellectuals of India have nothing but praise for this unique > grand slam National Double who saved Kashmir for India. Blood on the > hands of both National Conference and Indira Congress is still wet, > if you ask me, but no, we swoon the moment Abdullah Jr. says " i am > Indian". > > Dynasty rule itself smells scandalous. But alas, we have a school for > such a scandal in India. We have children of the erestwhile > politicians at the helm and we are happy to see India marching ahead > this way. And why should we even talk about that, let us blindly > accept the norm and ignore the wiser nuance. After all who needs > reasoning these days. but let us at least feel guilty. > > Times are such that our next Home Minister might be Sanjay Dutt who > knowingly bought hand grenades, and other lethal weapons from those > who were directly responsible for Bombay serial Blasts. > > Two cheers for Indian Democracy > > with love and regards > > inder salim > > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Kshmendra Kaul > wrote: > > Dear Inder Salim > > > > You are playing advisor to and policy strategist for Yasin Malik a > > self-admitted murderer. Yasin, who amongst others led (post 1947) the > > introduction of Islamic Terrorism into Kashmir. Yasin who ostensibly > > eschewed the path of violence, yet continued to have links with Terrorist > > Organisations. Yasin the Terrorist. > > > > Kshmendra > > > > --- On Mon, 2/2/09, indersalim wrote: > > > > From: indersalim > > Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice > > To: "reader-list" > > Date: Monday, February 2, 2009, 8:39 PM > > > > Dear all > > Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, > > the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is > > interesting. > > > > http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx > > > > I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin > > Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of > > the > > Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. > > > > Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that > > applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously > > he grasped the Kashmir issue. > > > > Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. > > Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and > > going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as > > his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to > > stay behind veil all the time. > > > > One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( > > predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a > > Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, > > but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, > > particularly for women. > > > > Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take > > Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi > > but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his > > choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the > > cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his > > choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will > > he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? > > > > Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly > > about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has > > any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens > > to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But > > slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the > > cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this > > issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like > > that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance. > > Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and > > dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley. > > > > The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues. > > I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues > > like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak > > about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a > > sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival > > of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions. > > > > This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free > > election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still > > have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every > > other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously > > gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very > > much there, as significant as ever. > > > > Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir > > Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to > > understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority > > area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to > > Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the > > troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir > > was divided. What is LOC after all? > > > > I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I > > hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself > > looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with > > some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root > > level and beyond. > > > > Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of > > living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is > > openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent, > > which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it. > > So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support. > > > > So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K , > > and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of > > office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines > > against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation > > is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ? > > > > Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking > > on my own behalf. > > > > With love and regards > > Inder salim > > > > > > -- > > _________________________________________ > > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > > Critiques & Collaborations > > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe > > in > > the subject header. > > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > > > > > > -- > > http://indersalim.livejournal.com > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul Freelance Correspondent, The Times of India Cell - +91-9873297834 Campaign Blog: http://kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com/ Personal Blog: http://activistsdiary.blogspot.com/ From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 22:24:52 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 22:24:52 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath In-Reply-To: <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: Dear Bipin (and all) You have stated two points in the arguments you made about Modi. One was the fact that Modi has now decided to use development as a tool to win elections. The other is that the people of Gujarat have elected him on the basis of development. The first has been answered by Taha, and for the moment, I am not commenting on it. I would do so sometime later. My reference is to the second point. You have stated that solely development has been a factor for winning elections in Gujarat for Modi and BJP. This has also been stated to be the criterion for the victory of BJP in Chhatisgarh and Madhya Pradesh, as well as that of the Congress in Delhi. However, my discussion with my friend Aashish (a member of this list) has certainly opened my eyes, that it is a highly wrong statement to be put up as a general one. And the reason is this. I think the media and the upper elites and the middle class, in this country, have devised a simplistic way of analyzing elections, especially when the verdicts are confounding for them, in order to prove that they knew why the results came out the way they came out. However, in all this, they forget many things. And those have to be pointed out in this mail. Gujarat has 182 Assembly constituencies. Has Modi developed all the 182 assembly constituencies on an equal basis? Do all the constituencies, or at least by and large most, have received the same kind of development in at least 3-4 sectors, like agriculture, transport and communication like roads, banking facilities of state etc.? I don't think that would be the case. And mind you, such things can lead to complaints of discrimination to certain regions and constituencies of Gujarat, against the Chief Minister and his govt, and therefore his party. Secondly. Compared to 2002, has the situation improved in all the sectors in Gujarat? Or has it deteriorated? Which have improved, and which have not? And did Modi try to help those sectors which didn't improve, and did people feel that he tried to improve them? More important is that, even if it did improve, was the potential growth possible? Or did we miss out the potential target? And if yes, by how much? And what do people feel about this? Thirdly. There are many who think people vote on the basis of caste. Do all the constituencies have same percentage of Dalits, Muslims, Patels, upper castes and others? Or is it different? Is it the same for all BJP won constituencies? Or even there, is there difference? These are important questions. The fact is, that instead of analyzing elections the macro-way, (which is also the way you have analyzed development, and also have stated Gujarati people to have analyzed development and BJP), one should look at the constituency level, to decide why has the BJP candidate has won, or why has the Congress candidate won, and so on. There can be many reasons, and perceptions. It may be that all Muslims voted for Congress candidate and therefore he won. Or, all Patels voted combinedly in favor of BJP candidate and so he won. Or, some Patels didn't vote for BJP candidate, as they were angry that Modi had disposed of Keshubhai Patel from the BJP, and they felt a Patel leader was marginalized. Or, Modi was perceived to be a strong CM. Or, Kolis felt that Modi had failed to protect their women (there was a rape case of a woman belonging to Koli community in Saurashtra a couple of months before the assembly elections) and hence voted against it. And so on. I am not saying that what you said is wrong. It could be right. But there is no substantial statistical analysis to decide that which reason was right or which was not right. Therefore, it is very difficult to assume that Modi won on the basis of development. Or on Hindutva. Or on Moditva, as he would like us to believe in some sense. It may be other reasons as well. It may be that the candidates he had chosen had good following in their constituencies. Or it may be that BSP had spoiled the chances of Congress candidates. But there should be statistical analysis for this. The reason I say this is that, it is more starkly true in my own state (Madhya Pradesh). Now, the Congress was doing well in the bye-elections till about one and a half years back. And many believed that the BJP there would lose its govt. Instead it won. And it has won by 37.50% votes being secured by it, which is the lowest number of votes secured by any party in the history of the MP assembly elections to form a government. Now what happened in these one and a half years to ensure it won. God knows. Everybody is giving some reasons, but I don't think anybody has anything except possible perceptions, which may or may not be true, but which dont' have facts to back them up. One more thing. It's wrong for all of us, including me, to say that Gujarat voted for Modi. Modi was voted in by majority of the voters who turned up on the day of election, not by all Gujarati voters who turned up, nor by all Gujaratis who are eligible voters. Instead, we can simply say Modi won Gujarat elections. That would be better. Regards Rakesh PS :Thanks to Aashish for this wonderful discussion to lead to this kind of insight. From anivar.aravind at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 08:11:42 2009 From: anivar.aravind at gmail.com (Anivar Aravind) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 08:11:42 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] today@ViBGYOR2009: National Conference on Food Sovereignty Message-ID: <35f96d470902031841m1b3476cdvbe3d953bc440f3d7@mail.gmail.com> http://2009.vibgyorfilm.com/programmes/national-conference/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ViBGYOR National Conference-2009 `Food Sovereignty' Wednesday, February 4th, 10am-4pm OUTLINE 9.30am: Sangeet Nataka Academy. Thrissur premises * Inauguration of the `Farm & Food Fair'* 10am: Regional Theatre *Inauguration of the National Conference* *Dr. Viswambharan, Vice Chancellor, Kerala Agricultural University (KAU)* 10.30am: Conference *Moderator: Smitu Kothari, Intercultural Resopurces, New Delhi Key Note: `Food Sovereignty and Food Security Dr. Kamla Bhasin, former Member, FAO* (Tea Break) Presentations: - * Food Swaraj: Initiatives of Gramswaraj across India*: Kalanand Mani, Peaceful Society, Goa - * Grasroots fighting the global GM giants*, Sathish Garu, Deccan Development Society, Hyderabad - *Impact of Climate Change on Food and Agriculture:* Dr. Prasad Rao, Dept. Of Metereology, KAU, Mannuthy 12.30 noon: Discussion/Q&A 1.00: Lunch 2.00-4.00: *Panel Discussion: People's Movements for Food rights:* *Moderator: Rajaji Mathew Thomas MLA* - *Fishing and/as Farming: Fisherfolk's perspectives on Food and livelihood* Kerala Swathanthra Matsya Thozhilali Federation, Trivandrum - *Rural Women for alternative farming modes and models* - DDS, Hyderabad - Utthan, Ahemedabad - Abhivyakti. Nasik 4.00: Concluding Session ------------------------------------------------------------------- *APPEAL : * As with any people led initiative, ViBGYOR film festival has been facing severe financial crisis. In spite of support from local groups, activists and partner organizations, the local organizers of the festival have incurred a cumulative loss of approximately rupees Seven lakhs over the past 3 years. One of the reasons is that the festival does not accept any corporate funding and has received little support from Government departments and public trusts. Major expenses incurred have been for travel, hire of equipment, halls, publications and accommodation and food for filmmakers and activists who attend the annual event. We appeal to our friends and well-wishers (Organizations/Institutions as well) to *join the ViBGYOR Film Fraternity* and thus support this alternative film festival, so that we can address the current financial crisis and also plan for the future. There are several ways to become part of the ViBGYOR Film Fraternity: 1. Contribute Rs. 10, 000 ($ 300 for people outside India) and become a *Patron Member of ViBGYOR Film Fraternity* 2. Contribute Rs. 5, 000 ($ 150 for people outside India) and become an Associate Member of *ViBGYOR Film Fraternity* 3. Contribute Rs. 100 a month or Rs. 1000/- as one time payment and be a Member of the *ViBGYOR Support Group* 4. Contribute any amount as a support gesture Contributors to the ViBGYOR Fund, apart from becoming eligible for different types of Memberships, will be listed on our website and in publications like the ViBGYOR Souvenir, the monthly News Letter and the upcoming Festival Book. They will be entitled to one Guest Pass entry to ViBGYOR Annual Film Festival and associated activities. An e-group will link all friends and supporters of ViBGYOR, with monthly updates on ViBGYOR events and concerns. We hope to collect at least rupees 10 lakhs towards the deficit in the past and for the activities we have planned for the next three years. If you are interested in supporting this initiative, please write a *DD/cheque to `ViBGYOR Film Collective' payable at Thrissur* and mail it to the address below. Or you may directly transfer the money to the ViBGYOR Collective account (a/c number: *110533, Catholic Syrian Bank, Thrissur Town Branch*). Please intimate us and provide us with your postal address so that we can send you the receipt. ViBGYOR Film Festival Office Chetana, Kalliath Square, Palace Road Thrissur: 680 020, Kerala, INDIA Tel: +91-487-2330830/0-9447000830 info at vibgyorfilm.com, www.vibgyorfilm.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aliens at dataone.in Wed Feb 4 11:16:29 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:16:29 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030348k5f16002by866cd3ba21a41081@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <002401c9868b$eda724a0$0201a8c0@limo> Dear Taha, In recent election, 'Maut ke saudagar' was congress campaign by Mrs. Sonia, (I surprised she is not that out spoken lady how she used that word) and not Modi campaign. However, it was fire back to them only. Modi mask, chhapan ki chhati is one type of publicity gimmick and nothing to do with Hindutva. India is very wide country with ampoule of varieties of casts. I told you earlier that vote bank politics strategy played since independence includes caste based politics also along with minor vote bank. When you campaign in election you have plan somehow caste based campaign. However, it has reduced nowadays drastically but not removed fully. But, I am sure it will have minimum impact after few years at least in western India. thanks Bipin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Taha Mehmood" <2tahamehmood at googlemail.com> To: "bipin" Cc: "reader-list" Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 5:18 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath > Dear Bipin > > I take your word that this time Modi did not use HIndutva as an > election strategy. This time the strategy it seems was more self > aggrandizing. The 'Chappan ke Chaati', 'Maut ke Saudagar', 'Modi > Masks' and so on. Modi's rhetoric was also carefully crafted to > include the audience. There were reports about he used a uniquely > christian strategy of catechisms to involve the audience. For instance > how would ask a question, where do you think Lord Ram was born? The > audience would reply in unison- Ayodhya. Then Mr. Modi would lampoon > Congress, to the effect that- you, the common people of Gujarat know > the answer to this question but those who are born in Italy and who > now run our country think that Ram is a mythical figure. The audience > will burst out laughing. It is also reported that each local RSS > handlers were assigned a row of audience. They were given a list of > all the questions and answers in advance and when when Mr.Modi spoke > everybody in the audience was ready for an engaging drama. Where was > 'development' in this strategy? > > If Mr. Modi is an efficient chief minister then why is it that more > three crore people are dying of hunger in his state or are suffering > from malnutrition and low body mass index. > > Regards > > Taha From pawan.durani at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 12:54:34 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:54:34 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] In Kashmir we have terrorism, not a freedom struggle Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902032324t43ead994waa02e2b59d3fa7e2@mail.gmail.com> http://idp.world-citizenship.org/wp-archive/154 Of late discordant notes come from US official circles which give an impression that Washington is not averse to politicising global terror when it comes to handling it in the case of India. The US top military brass at CENTCOM and other regional command levels has subtly expressed that the Kashmir dispute has a link to terrorism. The British foreign secretary, Mr. David Miliband, recently joined his voice with that of American Generals when he wrote in The Guardian that not resolving Kashmir dispute was the cause of rise of terror in India. One would ask that by the same token what were he causes of 9/11? Terror unleashed by religious extremists is not unknown to the US or UK. Both have taken measures aimed at ensuring maximum security to their nationals and institutions of the state. Obviously, other counties afflicted by same scourge would also exercise their right to protect their citizens and sovereignty of their state. India has signed an agreement with both, the US and UK according to which the signatories will collaborate closely to fight global terrorism. Sometime back when the US hinted that she expected India to join NATO forces in their fight against Taliban-Al Qaeda combine, Washington was, in fact, invoking the spirit of the Indo-US anti-terror agreement. How come the yardstick changes when the event of 26/11 is under focus? If the Anglo-American bloc wants India, or for that matter any other country in India's position, to compromise her territorial integrity through a deal with the terrorists, then there appears no logic in either the US calling the world powers that they "were either on his side or on the side of the enemy" in the wake of 9/11 or signing anti-terrorism agreement with India or other countries. The land and the territory of India are as much sanctimonious to the Indians as is the land of the US to the Americans. BY reviving Kashmir rhetoric, the US is not actually serving the feelings of Pakistan — her close ally. It has its strategic interests and wants to produce an answer to Islamabad's threat of withdrawing her warring troops from NWFP and Waziristan where they, in tandem with Pakistanis, are engaged in fierce and deadly gun-battles with diehard tribesmen. Pakistan is in a precarious position in terms of war strategy against Taliban. On the one hand she has to fight her own nationals, viz. Pakistani Taliban in conjunction with the American troops, and on the other hand, she has to fight vast Punjabi population that is deeply involved and emotionally glued to the philosophy of radicalism. The perceived threat from her eastern neighbour comes handy at a time when the civilian administration and the army for long at loggerheads are intensely involved in a ludicrous power game. By pressurising India to make territorial concessions in Kashmir, Americans envision killing two birds with one stone: keep Pakistan happy with the Kashmir windfall and secondly let Pakistani troops engage themselves in a fratricidal war in distant bleak mountains leading to the annihilation of both. We know that the much hyped Track II diplomacy veered round one and only one objective, and that is unhinging India from status quo position in Kashmir. Various plans were proposed and also discussed in the course of Track II diplomacy. The patent rhetoric on both sides was that "steady progress was being made." However, in reality those parleys never moved beyond several formulae of dividing the state in one way or the other but reserving the valley as a gift to Pakistan. America's designs for a division of the State of Jammu and Kashmir along religious/ethnic and linguistic lines have been expressed explicitly as well as implicitly ever since India took the Kashmir dispute to the UN Security Council in 1948, albeit out of her naivety. We have had Dixon Plan, Kathwari Plan and lately Musharraf Plan all rooted in the fundamental idea of division along religious and ethno-linguistic lines. Security Councils recent resolution listing Jamaat-al-Dawa, the front of terrorist organization called Lashkar-e-Tayyaba, and recognition of LeT as an organization engaged in anti-state armed insurgency in Kashmir emphatically notify that what is going on in Kashmir is terrorism naked and open and in no way does it deserve to be recognized any thing like "freedom struggle". Those who support the so-called freedom struggle in Kashmir are actually on the side of terrorism and not peace. The Indian State has the right to protect her citizens and ensure perpetuation of a secular-democratic dispensation as enshrined in the Indian Constitution. India has the will and power to fight terrorism and to liberate her civil society from the looming threat out to rent its fabric asunder. It is US who needs Pakistan to fight her war in Afghanistan; India does not need anybody to fight her war. (*The writer is the former Director of the Centre of Central Asian Studies, Kashmir University*). From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 15:18:56 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 01:48:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] New addition to BATLA HOUSE CHRONICLES Message-ID: <160406.11990.qm@web57203.mail.re3.yahoo.com> "Batla House accused admits link to Varanasi blasts: cops" Manish Sahu   Lucknow : Alleged Indian Mujahideen activist Mohammad Saif, who was arrested in Delhi after the Batla House encounter on September 19, has disclosed that he and his dead colleague Atif Ameen were reportedly involved in Varanasi blasts in which 21 people were killed on March 7, 2006.   One blast took place at Sankatmochan Mandir and another at the Varanasi Cantt Railway Station. A third bomb, which was planted in Godaulia locality, did not explode. All bombs were made by packing explosives in pressure cookers.   Saif has reportedly confessed that he, along with Atif Ameen, planted the bomb at Godaulia. Youths from Azamgarh were involved in planting the other two bombs. There were two more men whose identity Saif did not know.   The Varanasi police brought Saif from Delhi and produced him before a local court on Friday. The court sent him in 14-day judicial remand. Since he has to be produced in a Delhi court on February 2, the Delhi Police took him away.   This is the first time the police have claimed that IM men were involved in the Varanasi blasts. The police had earlier arrested alleged Harkat-ul-Jehad-e-Islami activist Walliullah and filed a chargesheet against him in the case. Three unidentified Bangladeshi accomplices of Waliullah were shown absconding.   Following protests by local lawyers, the case was transferred from Varanasi to Ghaziabad. Waliullah’s lawyer Iliyas Chowdhary said, “The case is presently on trial. There is no direct evidence against Waliullah.” However, Waliullah has been convicted under the Unlawful Activities Act and sentenced to 10-year imprisonment.   Investigating officer Ashutosh Mishra said they had sent a police team to Delhi for questioning Saif. “He confessed that he had planted the bomb at Godaulia along with Atif Ameen who was killed in the Batla House encounter in Delhi.”   Mishra said Saif disclosed that Atif, who knew how to fit and set timers, had made the bomb at home with a white powder. He did not know who made the other two bombs and where. Also, only Atif knew from where the explosives and other material came and at whose asking the bombs were made and planted.   While the bomb at Sankatmochan Mandir was planted by Mirza Shadab Beg, Asadullah Akhtar alias Asadullah Khan and an unidentified man, the one at the railway station was planted by Ariz Khan alias Junaid and an unidentified man, Saif told the police. Except the two unidentified men, all were from Azamgarh and are absconding.     http://www.indianexpress.com/news/batla-house-accused-admits-link-to-varanasi-b.../417432/   From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 16:52:28 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:22:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Terrroism inside Pakistan, the epicentre of Global Terrorism Message-ID: <273074.11362.qm@web57202.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Pictures and descriptions of SWAT valley show it to be exquisitely beautiful. It used to be the major tourist and honeymooning destination in Pakistan.   Pakistan's honeymoon with it's creation Taliban has run into trouble. Taliban and other such organisations created/promoted by Pakistan have turned to Islamic Terrorism.  Pakistan is being visited by and engulfed by its own sins.   Irfan Husain writes in DAWN about the "Nightmare in Paradise". Swat incidentally is only 160 km from Islamabad, the capital of Pakistan   EXTRACTS    - It is a sad fact that while we Pakistanis are (rightly) incensed over the recent assault on Gaza, and other attacks on Muslims by non-Muslims, we choose to turn a blind eye by even worse Muslim-on-Muslim atrocities. - Thus, most editorial writers, columnists and TV commentators reserve their fury and invective for western targets, while glossing over what Muslims are doing to their fellow Muslims.   - In Swat, there have been grisly beheadings and public executions. Every evening, Shah Doran broadcasts names on the militant hit-list, presumably on Mullah Radio’s old FM frequency. Nearly 200 girls’ schools have been blown up or torched. Scores of video rental shops and hair-cutting establishments have been attacked and forced to shut down. Women dare not leave their homes, and 80,000 girls have been deprived of an education.   - If this situation has been allowed to develop in Swat, an integral part of the Frontier Province, and not a tribal area, imagine what things must be like in Waziristan and Mohmand agencies. Clearly, things are rapidly spinning out of control, and the government cannot establish its writ over large parts of the country.   Kshmendra   From rama.sangye at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 16:57:19 2009 From: rama.sangye at gmail.com (V Ramaswamy) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:57:19 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Panini keypad Message-ID: <6ade4a8f0902040327g45f372dfl637b87101a615836@mail.gmail.com> Panini Keypad - the multilingual Indian keypad for all the languages of India. See: http://paninikeypad.com/ You can compose in 11 languages of India. You can automatically transliterate between any of the languages. Say write in Bengali and send in Malayalam. Receive in Gujarati and read in Punjabi and so on. Also it offers 350% compression. Normally an SMS can carry only 70 characters of regional language (unicode double bytes in a 140 byte total payload of SMS). This application uses proprietary SMS compression to increase that payload of a single SMS to around 240 characters. "This is possibly the worlds first on phone SMS compression application." No one has ever heard of such a thing or speculated about its possibility. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 16:58:37 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 03:28:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Terrroism inside Pakistan, the epicentre of Global Terrorism Message-ID: <904447.47639.qm@web57201.mail.re3.yahoo.com> (Reposting topic. Earlier message was incomplete)   Pictures and descriptions of SWAT valley show it to be exquisitely beautiful. It used to be the major tourist and honeymooning destination in Pakistan.   Pakistan's honeymoon with it's creation Taliban has run into trouble. Taliban and other such organisations created/promoted by Pakistan have turned to Islamic Terrorism.  Pakistan is being visited by and engulfed by its own sins.   Irfan Husain writes in DAWN about the "Nightmare in Paradise". Swat incidentally is only 160 km from Islamabad, the capital of Pakistan   EXTRACTS    - It is a sad fact that while we Pakistanis are (rightly) incensed over the recent assault on Gaza, and other attacks on Muslims by non-Muslims, we choose to turn a blind eye by even worse Muslim-on-Muslim atrocities. - Thus, most editorial writers, columnists and TV commentators reserve their fury and invective for western targets, while glossing over what Muslims are doing to their fellow Muslims.   - In Swat, there have been grisly beheadings and public executions. Every evening, Shah Doran broadcasts names on the militant hit-list, presumably on Mullah Radio’s old FM frequency. Nearly 200 girls’ schools have been blown up or torched. Scores of video rental shops and hair-cutting establishments have been attacked and forced to shut down. Women dare not leave their homes, and 80,000 girls have been deprived of an education.   - If this situation has been allowed to develop in Swat, an integral part of the Frontier Province, and not a tribal area, imagine what things must be like in Waziristan and Mohmand agencies. Clearly, things are rapidly spinning out of control, and the government cannot establish its writ over large parts of the country.   Kshmendra     "Nightmare in paradise" By Irfan Husain   IT was around this time of the year when I last visited Swat over a decade ago. An old friend from Turkey was with me, and we shivered in the cold at the archaeology department rest house where we stayed. The peaks overlooking the valley were covered in snow, as was the countryside as we drove along the partly frozen Swat river. Recalling various trips to the magical valley over the years, I am sorry for all those who can no longer venture there. But apart from the many tourists who are forever denied the beauty of the place, I pity the people of Swat who have been so badly let down by the Pakistani state. Tens of thousands have been forced to flee their homes as Swat descends deeper into chaos and despair. ‘Mullah Radio’ was the name given to Maulana Fazlullah for his daily FM broadcasts in which he called, among other things, for people to stop their children from getting anti-polio shots. According to him, the government teams going around immunising kids against this dreaded disease were actually making them sterile. Terrified, the paramedics halted their efforts in Swat. I wrote at the time that the government should immediately put a stop to the maulana’s illegal broadcasts. But this was before 9/11, at a time when Musharraf was wooing the mullahs and the jihadis. So Mullah Radio and his kind gathered strength and gained supporters, confident that the authorities would not lay a finger on them. And now that push has finally come to shove, the army has discovered that it does not have the muscle to displace the militants who have taken over Swat. In a sobering piece on this page last week, Zubeida Mustafa underlined the plight of the people of Swat, and asked why there were no large protests against the killers who were terrorising the valley. Why not indeed? It is a sad fact that while we Pakistanis are (rightly) incensed over the recent assault on Gaza, and other attacks on Muslims by non-Muslims, we choose to turn a blind eye by even worse Muslim-on-Muslim atrocities. Thus, most editorial writers, columnists and TV commentators reserve their fury and invective for western targets, while glossing over what Muslims are doing to their fellow Muslims. In Swat, there have been grisly beheadings and public executions. Every evening, Shah Doran broadcasts names on the militant hit-list, presumably on Mullah Radio’s old FM frequency. Nearly 200 girls’ schools have been blown up or torched. Scores of video rental shops and hair-cutting establishments have been attacked and forced to shut down. Women dare not leave their homes, and 80,000 girls have been deprived of an education. Currently, some 4,000 militants are battling 12,000 troops for control of the valley, and thus far, the terrorists are winning. According to reporters who have been covering the conflict, our army has been reluctant to engage the enemy, preferring to lob artillery shells in the general direction of militant redoubts in the mountains. As soon as night falls, our soldiers retreat into their camps while the jihadis rule the valley. In their ranks are a large number of fighters with Central Asian features. If this situation has been allowed to develop in Swat, an integral part of the Frontier Province, and not a tribal area, imagine what things must be like in Waziristan and Mohmand agencies. Clearly, things are rapidly spinning out of control, and the government cannot establish its writ over large parts of the country. Many efforts have been made to engage the terrorists in a dialogue. Each one has failed as the jihadis, sensing the weakness of the Pakistani state, and thriving on the support they get from so many TV talk-show hosts and their guests, go for the jugular. Without wanting to cast doubts on the courage of our soldiers engaged in a difficult battle, I must question the tactics being deployed. Counter-insurgency operations are now a central part of the training many armies impart. But we have stuck to conventional warfare training, based on the assumption that our enemy is India. This one-dimensional approach has failed to equip our officers and soldiers with the tactics to beat the irregular but well-equipped forces they now face across the northwest. But more than the inadequate military preparations that have handicapped us in our fight-back against the jihadis is the lack of a political consensus. With the country’s two biggest political parties, the PPP and the PML-N, locked in a bitter power struggle, those in power have little time to focus on the real danger facing Pakistan. For its part, the media seems to be united on only one thing: hostility towards the West, and specifically, on criticism of the American drone attacks against militant targets in Fata. The truth few Pakistanis are willing to face is that almost every such missile attack has killed and wounded militants, both foreign and home-grown. And while there have been a number of civilians killed and hurt, this is the unfortunate price for providing shelter to terrorists. If this sounds callous, ponder over the alternatives: who else would go after these killers? As our army has demonstrated time and again, it has neither the capability, nor the intelligence, to rid us of these killers. Our leaders, both in and out of uniform, have repeatedly said such attacks are ‘counter-productive’. So how about launching some ‘productive’ attacks that would convince the Americans (and us Pakistanis) that we are capable of fighting these jihadis on our own? Again, without wishing to belittle the courage or the sacrifices of our soldiers, we must recognise that so far, the war is going very badly for us. At this stage of the battle, it is too late to pin the blame on the individuals and institutions responsible for having allowed this situation to develop. If we wish to turn the tide, different tactics are needed. One thing that might focus minds is for the army to organise trips to the battlefield for politicians and journalists. Let them share what the people of Swat are going through, even if for a couple of days. Perhaps then they might see where the real danger lies. irfan.husain at gmail.com http://www.dawn.com/weekly/mazdak/20090131.htm       From aliens at dataone.in Wed Feb 4 18:39:28 2009 From: aliens at dataone.in (bipin) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:39:28 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: <004001c986c9$cf9114b0$0201a8c0@limo> Dear Rakesh, You can't have same yardstick of analysis for all the states as far as assembly election is concerned. At present we are talking for Gujarat or Modi. Grossly it is not possible to have uniform growth in all the constituencies', districts, taluqas. Since last 50 years, there remain difference in growth in the different areas that difference bound to remain for some times, however it minimize gradually when overall development is going on. At present all the ports development of Gujarat has utmost priorities and on development of the same in phase manner almost all the area of Gujarat will be benefited. Special Investment Region (SIR) is mostly implemented in un-developed areas will also be benefited. You are giving cast factor. No doubt, there is a cast factor affecting to the particular constituencies. But, say BJP candidate of particular cast who dominates that constituency, the other party like Congress knows this factor very well and they will certainly put similar capacity candidate only to counter this effect or vice versa and such effect will grossly nullified. Rakesh, voting format is very complex issue and one should go with the cast details since as informed all the parties/candidates knows their constituencies cast factor and plan their strategy accordingly. For your information, unlike past so many Muslim voters has voted for BJP this time in Gujarat. For MP you much better as its your homeland and I welcome your analysis. There after, I will also say something in my point of view. thanks Bipin Trivedi ----- Original Message ----- From: Rakesh Iyer To: bipin Cc: Taha Mehmood ; sarai-list Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 10:24 PM Subject: Re: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath Dear Bipin (and all) You have stated two points in the arguments you made about Modi. One was the fact that Modi has now decided to use development as a tool to win elections. The other is that the people of Gujarat have elected him on the basis of development. The first has been answered by Taha, and for the moment, I am not commenting on it. I would do so sometime later. My reference is to the second point. You have stated that solely development has been a factor for winning elections in Gujarat for Modi and BJP. This has also been stated to be the criterion for the victory of BJP in Chhatisgarh and Madhya Pradesh, as well as that of the Congress in Delhi. However, my discussion with my friend Aashish (a member of this list) has certainly opened my eyes, that it is a highly wrong statement to be put up as a general one. And the reason is this. I think the media and the upper elites and the middle class, in this country, have devised a simplistic way of analyzing elections, especially when the verdicts are confounding for them, in order to prove that they knew why the results came out the way they came out. However, in all this, they forget many things. And those have to be pointed out in this mail. Gujarat has 182 Assembly constituencies. Has Modi developed all the 182 assembly constituencies on an equal basis? Do all the constituencies, or at least by and large most, have received the same kind of development in at least 3-4 sectors, like agriculture, transport and communication like roads, banking facilities of state etc.? I don't think that would be the case. And mind you, such things can lead to complaints of discrimination to certain regions and constituencies of Gujarat, against the Chief Minister and his govt, and therefore his party. Secondly. Compared to 2002, has the situation improved in all the sectors in Gujarat? Or has it deteriorated? Which have improved, and which have not? And did Modi try to help those sectors which didn't improve, and did people feel that he tried to improve them? More important is that, even if it did improve, was the potential growth possible? Or did we miss out the potential target? And if yes, by how much? And what do people feel about this? Thirdly. There are many who think people vote on the basis of caste. Do all the constituencies have same percentage of Dalits, Muslims, Patels, upper castes and others? Or is it different? Is it the same for all BJP won constituencies? Or even there, is there difference? These are important questions. The fact is, that instead of analyzing elections the macro-way, (which is also the way you have analyzed development, and also have stated Gujarati people to have analyzed development and BJP), one should look at the constituency level, to decide why has the BJP candidate has won, or why has the Congress candidate won, and so on. There can be many reasons, and perceptions. It may be that all Muslims voted for Congress candidate and therefore he won. Or, all Patels voted combinedly in favor of BJP candidate and so he won. Or, some Patels didn't vote for BJP candidate, as they were angry that Modi had disposed of Keshubhai Patel from the BJP, and they felt a Patel leader was marginalized. Or, Modi was perceived to be a strong CM. Or, Kolis felt that Modi had failed to protect their women (there was a rape case of a woman belonging to Koli community in Saurashtra a couple of months before the assembly elections) and hence voted against it. And so on. I am not saying that what you said is wrong. It could be right. But there is no substantial statistical analysis to decide that which reason was right or which was not right. Therefore, it is very difficult to assume that Modi won on the basis of development. Or on Hindutva. Or on Moditva, as he would like us to believe in some sense. It may be other reasons as well. It may be that the candidates he had chosen had good following in their constituencies. Or it may be that BSP had spoiled the chances of Congress candidates. But there should be statistical analysis for this. The reason I say this is that, it is more starkly true in my own state (Madhya Pradesh). Now, the Congress was doing well in the bye-elections till about one and a half years back. And many believed that the BJP there would lose its govt. Instead it won. And it has won by 37.50% votes being secured by it, which is the lowest number of votes secured by any party in the history of the MP assembly elections to form a government. Now what happened in these one and a half years to ensure it won. God knows. Everybody is giving some reasons, but I don't think anybody has anything except possible perceptions, which may or may not be true, but which dont' have facts to back them up. One more thing. It's wrong for all of us, including me, to say that Gujarat voted for Modi. Modi was voted in by majority of the voters who turned up on the day of election, not by all Gujarati voters who turned up, nor by all Gujaratis who are eligible voters. Instead, we can simply say Modi won Gujarat elections. That would be better. Regards Rakesh PS :Thanks to Aashish for this wonderful discussion to lead to this kind of insight. From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Wed Feb 4 19:27:38 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 05:57:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear Message-ID: <222708.90849.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis.   Kshmendra     "Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear" By Sher Baz Khan Tuesday, 03 Feb, 2009   (MINGORA: The road to Swat used to be a byword for breathtaking beauty. Although it remains the most picturesque in the country, it now conjures up fear and lurking danger.) The journey upwards from Mardan these days is forbidding. The entire route is a picture of utter desolation. Fear of the unknown has overtaken a place fabled for its fertile fields and majestic mountains. Even a flying visit is enough to fill one with a sense of foreboding that religious extremists would overrun the valley before long. Most people, especially those living in urban areas, seem to have lost the will to live. Things started taking an ugly turn in July 2007 after the then NWFP chief minister Shamsul Mulk called in paramilitary forces to take on militants fired by Maulana Fazlullah’s inflammatory rhetoric. But the decision seems to have rebounded on the government, for now at least. The Maulana’s followers hold sway over no less than 80 per cent of the Swat valley. The Army is into the third phase of an operation that has seen the state’s writ shrinking by the day. Of late the Taliban have made inroads into even settled areas, such as, Mardan, Takhtbai, Shergarh, and almost the entire Malakand Agency. Taliban are spreading their message in the same way as they did, and still do, in Swat. The medium of the message is fear. In fact, fear is the message. The moment I entered the region, I was struck by unmistakable signs of a place steadily turning its back on the outside world. Institution after institution is falling to the Taliban. Non-combatants have a stark choice: seek refuge in other places or accept the diktat of Maulana Fazlullah. I managed to strike conversations with some Swatis, albeit after much persuasion. Abdullah Khan, a draper, narrated the ordeal of his brother, Rauf Khan, especially his treatment by a Rawalpindi-based psychiatrist. ‘Rauf saw the beheading of a man in a butcher shop by militants. Since that day he either laughs loudly or sheds tears in silence,’ Abdullah said. A stroll through Mingora’s main marketplace brought us face to face with misery. A number of people poured their hearts out to us. ‘The thunder of bombs, rockets, grenades and whatnot linger in our ears.’ ‘Go to the psychiatrists of Peshawar and Rawalpindi and ask them how many children, men and women from Swat they are treating these days. I bet the number will baffle you,’ said Ajmal Khan, a college student. The locals alleged that the military operation had killed more non-combatants than militants. The economic fallout of the conflict is ominous. Most of the 1,000 hotels have gone out of business. The rent-a-car business is also dying out. Shops dealing in CDs and operators of cable television have folded up after Maulana Fazlullah’s warnings. Barber shops have put up notices that they would not shave off beards as the Taliban have told them not to do so. A glitzy plaza caught my eye with its elegant shops, but sadly there were no shoppers. ‘Women are not allowed to enter the premises unless they are accompanied by men,’ read a banner fluttering over the entrance to the mall. A number of tailors said they had been told not to let women enter their shops. ‘The upper and middle classes are leaving the valley and settling down elsewhere,’ said Aleem Jan, a tailor making women’s suits. He is among many who are planning to move to either Mardan or Peshawar. Advertisement hoardings carrying pictures of women are disallowed. Faces of women in ads are blackened or deformed. A building housing the court is empty of lawyers and litigants as Taliban have decreed that the existing judicial order is un-Islamic. They have set up 73 sharia courts to administer ‘speedy justice’. These courts summon people on phone, threatening violators with death. And speedy justice it is indeed. They settle cases within a couple of days. Hence they are getting popular. ‘A summon from the court of Fazlullah is like a death warrant. No one dare disobey it,’ said Jamil Ahmed, a lawyer. Although he favoured the existing judicial system, he was all praise for the sharia courts as they decide cases in no time. Jamil cited the example of a woman whose plea for dissolution was decided the other day by a local court. The matter was lingering for the past 22 years. She had applied for dissolution of marriage at the age of 21 and now she is 43. The president of the Swat Bar Association, Aftab Alam, is against a parallel judiciary. But he too said judges should try to dispose of cases in ‘reasonable time’ to undercut the Taliban courts. Only two of the 14 policewomen who worked in the district court take the trouble to report for duty these days. But they wear veils and keep a low profile, mostly hiding themselves behind bushes. Almost all the legislators belonging to the ruling Awami National Party have fled from Swat. The exception is Afzal Khan Lala. All of them are on the Taliban’s hit list.   http://www.dawn.net/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/nwfp/tourist-heaven-turns-into-valley-of-fear-ha   From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Feb 4 19:57:42 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 14:27:42 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] To Taha Mehmood In-Reply-To: <674470.47441.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <65be9bf40902021114g68ac97bbi88ae934087702f8c@mail.gmail.com> <674470.47441.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902040627p2634d106w8d605b5bdb2610fc@mail.gmail.com> Dear Kshmendera Thank you for your response. May I say that I still do not understand your argument. The reason being, there seems to be a lack of clarity in your position. Let me explain why I think in this manner. I may be off the mark in thinking like this and I would look forward to your reply. But first my rational- We have been talking about MNIC. In other words one can argue that we have been discussing about MNIC. This discussion has been looking into the nature of a national identity card. This discussion has, at the same time, veered itself away from addressing any anxiety with respect to any (non-existent) policy implication. This is to suggest that this discussion or exchange of ideas have tried to inspect, inquire and investigate the idea of identity from as many different perspectives as possible. The Multiple Purpose National Identity Card is going to be National Identity Card for India. A National Identity Card, in a contemporary context, is a smart identity card. I have been trying to convey in all these mails that there seems to be a fundamental confusion regarding the most basic, most rudimentary idea of identity. It is like wondering, if a national identity card is like a wall made of bricks of identity, then, how can we have a wall that lasts, if we do not know the nature of a single brick used to make that wall. Any discussion on MNIC or any other national identity card or a smart identity card, which clearly lays down a rigorous analysis of the idea of such an identity document will invariably touch upon the idea of identity. Because for the most linear reason, which is this- Any identity card or identity document or a smart identity document, of which a national identity card in nothing, but a scalar extrapolation, not only emanates but follows through the works and reflections of people who for the last two thousand or so years have intermittently thought on and about, the idea of identity. In the thinking of these people the idea of identity is articulated through notional category of collective identity, categorical identity, subjective identity, objective identity, racial identity, gendered identity etc, not to forget individual identity. One way of looking at MNIC or any national identity card is to look at through the prism of knowledge. I do not think we could have been exchanging these mails had all those people had not thought or reflected or written their thoughts for the last two thousand or so years. Hence one will be not wrong to think that embedded, in the idea of a smart card or a national identity card, is the thought of these people on -identity-. The point being it follows that any comment or a value judgment on any discussing on MNIC card which is a smart card which is an identity document which puts to practice while borrowing the thoughts of people who have pushed the conceptual boundaries of identity forward should and must include a discussion or an exchange of arguments, on the idea of identity. Because any other form of engagement in this discussion would be irrational. For instance in order to understand the nature of boiled rice we have to closely look into and exercise reason and make efforts to know the nature of steam and properties of pressure and volume and heat and energy. And then we have to determine what causes what, which must be followed with further testing whether such an experiment could be replicated anywhere or whether such an experiment is bound by time and space. I do not think we can have a reasonable discussion on the nature of boiled rice without understanding how other variables work. In your last response, like in your responses earlier on many other threads on or about national identity cards, you have presented us with a view that because of a lack of grasp over the nature of the idea of identity you would like to be excused from participating in any such discussion. Fair Enough! Then we get to read this- > you did not 'trivialise' the topic of MNIC but you 'trivialised' the > discussion on it. What I understand is this, that in order to make a value judgment on any such matter, it is assumed that the person making such value judgments is in the know of things, knows what is being talked about, knows the discourse and knows the debate and in the light of all the knowledge takes a stance that X's utterance on Y topic is akin to 'trivializing' the discussion around it because discussion has evolved from A to B and f,g,h, i, j, k have said so and so these positions were refuted by so and so and agreed upon by so and so. In other words If for a moment we equate MNIC to boiled rice, which in many ways it is, like a finished product, then we need a thorough investigation of all the other variables which were used to prepare this product. What I do not understand is this, that how is one to measure the seriousness of someone's argument who while talking about the nature of boiled rice, excuses himself about clarifying his views on rice itself, forget about articulating any stance on temperature, volume, pressure, heat, water, steam or energy and then goes about passing value judgments. How is anyone to believe in the words of a person that such and such rice is delicious or bad or does not taste right or tastes awful. Regards Taha From vashsand at hotmail.com Wed Feb 4 20:04:05 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:34:05 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear Message-ID: Kasjmendra Kaul wrote-- What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis. and then there is link about SWAT. and i totally agree with that but what about extending the logic to karnataka one can say jihadi hindus r learning fast from their jihadi brethen across the border. Ram Sena now targets women's attire Vicky Nanjappa in Bengaluru Related Articles • There is a need to safeguard Indian culture' • Apply anti-terror laws against Mangalore attackers: Ananthamurthy • 'Shri Ram Sena is a confused organisation' Top Emailed Features • 'Friendships go beyond body,mind,heart'• 2009 Padma Award Winners• What Barack Obama said in his speech Have you tried this?• Ask a question• News on your Desktop Advertisements• Get astro tips here• Click to shop here• Find ur Dream Home http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/feb/04ram-sena-now-targets-womens-attire.htm Get news updates: What's this? Advertisement February 04, 2009 19:18 IST The Shri Ram Sena is sticking to its guns that it will not permit Valentine's Day celebrations and also warning that they will keep a watch on the kind of clothes women wear. After meeting with other activists of the Sena in Bengaluru [Images], its founder Pramod Muthalik [Images] said it was decided that the fight to safeguard the Indian culture would go on and there is no going back on this point. The Sena members unanimously decided to oppose Valentine's Day. Muthalik however added that their protests would be peaceful. A memorandum would be submitted to the chief minister and the Governor regarding this and they would be urged to help curb the celebration of Valentine's Day, which the Sena maintained is against Indian culture and should be prevented at any cost. Muthalik also said: "I have no problem with the manner in which a girl dresses up as long as it adheres to Indian culture. Skimpily clad women will not be tolerated and we would warn such girls. However at no point of time will we take the law into our hands." Meanwhile the Bangalore police is gearing to face any eventuality on February 14. Police sources say that they are fully prepared and that the day will be peaceful and the citizens will be safe http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/feb/04ram-sena-now-targets-womens-attire.htm _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Feb 4 20:10:15 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 14:40:15 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-85 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902040640g53393141idce2fa82904d3dd2@mail.gmail.com> http://www.hindu.com/2006/08/15/stories/2006081502111200.htm The Hindu Tuesday, Aug 15, 2006 Kalam for "comprehensive security" Special Correspondent Identifies major components as territorial, internal, energy and economic security NEW DELHI : President A.P.J. Abdul Kalam on Monday exhorted the citizens and officials to pool national energies to achieve "comprehensive national security" to defeat "challenges to peace from across our geographical borders, from terrorism and violence and from scarcities created by rapidly depleting natural resources." In a message to the nation on the eve of the 60th Independence Day, Mr. Kalam identified four major components: territorial security, internal security, energy security and economic security. "While we have the basic structure in the form of law, police cadres, intelligence agencies and judicial system, we need to reinforce them with required updates with a code of conduct. Every citizen, every group, every religion and every political and executive system should allow the law to function without interference," he said. Recalling his visit to Mumbai after the July 11 bomb blasts, Mr. Kalam noted how "the whole city of Mumbai expressed its deep sorrow and determination to combat terrorism with unity of minds. We must do this with a great sense of urgency for when evil minds combine, good minds have to work together and combat." Spelling out what it would take to mount a National Campaign to Eradicate Terrorism (NCET), the President said: "I believe the time has come to synergise our multiple agencies for forecasting and dealing with terrorist activities." Asking for "working together of the intelligence and security machinery both at the State and the Central levels," he said such "alert and dynamic movement would prevent hotels and homes being used as a shelter by terrorists and extremists." Pointing out that "there is a floating population in transition through residential areas, hotels and other similar places that could unknowingly be used for wrong purposes," Mr. Kalam proposed "national ID cards" and stressed the creation of "special monitoring methodology for unusual and abnormal banking transactions." Noting that true security meant energy security, the President briefly touched upon the topic of nuclear fuel. "The vast thorium resources of the nation should be harnessed by our scientists and technologists," he said. "I am confident that we have the capability to build our own thorium-based reactors." Asking the political, administrative, scientific and industrial communities to "cooperate intensely with each other," Mr. Kalam wanted formulation of a "vision, integrated missions, policies, plans and programmes for such comprehensive security for the nation to be safe, prosperous and happy." He told the country that he would be asking the Government and Parliament to (i) formulate a Citizens Security Bill, (ii) formulate an Energy Independence Bill, and (iii) adopt a resolution that "India will be transformed into a safe, prosperous, happy and socio-economically developed nation before the year 2020." National awakening At the outset, the President invoked the theme of "national awakening" and catalogued his experiences from travelling within India. He saluted "the existence of an indomitable spirit to succeed with the confidence that `we can do it' across the length and breadth of India." From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Wed Feb 4 20:11:47 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 14:41:47 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] News Items posted on the net on Multipurpose National Identity Cards-86 Message-ID: <65be9bf40902040641i1336da12r6a632c662b9c66a1@mail.gmail.com> http://www.business-standard.com/india/storypage.php?autono=4274&tp=on Business Standard Kalam calls for national approach to fight terrorism Press Trust of India / New Delhi August 14, 2006 Warning that the constant threat of low intensity proxy war and terrorism has become a disturbing feature of national life and a new face of war, President A P J Abdual Kalam today advocated a "national approach" to eradicate terrorism in all forms and to provide citizens security. Addressing the nation on the eve of the 60th Independence Day, he, however, skipped any reference to the controversial issue of Office of Profit, a legislation on which is pending before him for assent. Describing the issue of terrorism as one of national concern, the 75-year-old President said "we should transcend individual differences of opinion and address it with a sense of unity. This is the need of the hour." He referred to the recent Mumbai blasts and said the phenomenon of mindless violence was "continuously increasing." Seeking intense cooperation among political, scientific, administrative and industrial communities, he said the time has come for them to comprehensively take stock of the entire situation in all sectors of security. Commending a three-phased approach to comprehensive security, the President suggested to the Government and to both Houses of Parliament to formulate a Citizens Security Bill with a national campaign for eradication of terrorism, formulate an Energy Independence Bill and adopt a resolution that India will be transformed into a safe, prosperous, happy and socio-economically developed nation before 2020. Kalam, who had "national awakening" as the theme of his 14-page address, said "the constant threat of low intensity proxy war and terrorism have become a disturbing feature of national life. This constitutes the new face of war." Seeking synergising of multiple agencies for forecasting and dealing with terrorist activities, he said "we need to evolve a National Campaign for Eradicate Terrorism (NCET) in our nation with mission oriented integrated management structure and people's participation. "It has been recognised that terrorism does not take place without any planning. This may be originating from a master plan with global umbilical connectivity extending to homes or hotels and guest houses." He said NCET would facilitate working together of the intelligence and security machinery both at the state and the central level to achieve desired objectives besides acting as an alert and dynamic movement which would prevent hotels and homes being used as a shelter by terrorists and extremists. The President said the states could consider introduction of national identity cards and implement the National e-governance grid for all governemnt to government, governemnt to citizens, business to business and business to citizen transactions within two years time. Emphasising that accelerated development has to be integrated with peace missions, Kalam said the economic security of border regions would itself become complemntary to territorial security required in these zones. Highlighting the urgency to fight terrorism, the President said "when evil minds combine, good minds have to work together and combat." "While we have the basic structure in the form of law, police cadres, intelligence agencies and judicial system, we need to reinforce them with required updates with a code of conduct. Every citizen, every group, every religion and every political and executive system should allow the law to function without interference," the President said. Referring to the threat of extremists groups in the northeasterns parts, he said this required immediate, coordinated counter measures including effective negotiations for restoring normalcy coupled with economic development within the next three to five years. Kalam, who visited some of the Mumbai blast victims in hospital, said he felt the pain of many who lost their hearing ability, their limbs fractured and amputated and spinal injuries leading to permanent disability. The Maharashtra Government rose to the occasion to provide financial relief for medical support obtained from private hospital. Underpinning the need for sustained period of debate and decision making in Parliament and in Government for comprehensive national security "only in an environment of stable peace, can the nation concentrate on social and economic development. From A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk Wed Feb 4 20:32:57 2009 From: A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk (A Khanna) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 15:02:57 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] a kiss is just a kiss. or is it? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> hi all, i was intrigued by a news article from the bbc, pasted below, on a case from the delhi high court where a charges of obscenity against a couple kissing in public were dropped. thought this might be an interesting juxtaposition with the ram sena's attacks in Mangalore. if any of the lawyers on the list could get hold of the actual judgement, do let me know, it would be interesting to read. and while i suspect that Justice Muralidhar did not treat the factum of marriage as the basis for his judgement, this report suggest as much. if this is the case, it begs the question of what if they weren't married? what if they were both women, or both men, or, one or both otherwise? is it that the form of heterosexual marriage enables the delicious act of kissing to be read as 'love'? and must a kiss be a manifestation of 'love' to be 'acceptable' in public, or more precisely, to not be considered an offense of obscenity? its a sad time when the upholding of the right to heterosexual monogamous legally sanctioned love amounts to a radical act. kisses, akshay .... India couple's kiss 'not obscene' A court in India has dismissed criminal proceedings against a married couple charged with obscenity for allegedly kissing in public in the capital. The Delhi high court judge wondered how an "expression of love by a young married couple" could attract an obscenity charge. Police arrested the couple - a 28-year-old man and a 23-year-old woman - for kissing near a station last September. Public displays of affection are still largely taboo in India. The police in Delhi had begun criminal proceedings against the couple for "sitting in an objectionable position near a metro (railway station) pillar and kissing due to which passersby were feeling bad". The maximum punishment for committing an "obscene act" is three months in prison. Judge S Muralidhar quashed the criminal proceedings. He said that even if police reports were accurate "it is inconceivable how... an expression of love by a young married couple would attract an offence of obscenity and trigger the coercive process of law". The judge expressed surprise that the couple had been picked up and charged by police despite officers being told that they were married. Controversies Reports say the couple denied in their petition to the court they were kissing. They said they were taking self portraits on their mobile phones. The lawyer who contested the case for the couple told a Delhi newspaper: "Obscenity charges are attracted when an act is so obscene that it encourages depravity or annoys the public. "In this case both these contents are missing, because the charge sheet is silent on any passersby as originally claimed." Kissing in public in India has triggered controversies in the past. In 2007, Hollywood actor Richard Gere sparked protests in India after kissing Celebrity Big Brother winner and Bollywood actor Shilpa Shetty at an Aids awareness rally in Delhi. The protesters said Gere had insulted Indian culture by kissing the hand and face of the actress. In 2005, a court in Rajasthan imposed a fine of $22 on an Israeli couple for kissing after getting married in a traditional Hindu ceremony in Pushkar. Priests were offended when the couple kissed and hugged during the chanting of religious verses. In 2004, Bollywood film star Kareena Kapoor began legal proceedings against a tabloid newspaper that published photos of her kissing her co-star. She and Shahid Kapoor said the photos were doctored and were not of them. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/south_asia/7866478.stm Published: 2009/02/03 09:47:14 GMT -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. From anujbhuwania at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 20:51:57 2009 From: anujbhuwania at gmail.com (Anuj Bhuwania) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 20:51:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a kiss is just a kiss. or is it? In-Reply-To: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> References: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: Am pasting J. Muralidhar's order below. The two people concerned being married is clearly not irrelevant in his order. But upholding the right to public display of affection for heterosexual monogamous legally sanctioned lovers has never ceased to amount to a radical act in India, as far as I know. IN THE HIGH COURT OF DELHI AT NEW DELHI 64. CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 RAHUL MOOKERJI and ANR. ..... Petitioner Through: Mr. Trideep pais and Ms. Naomi Chandra, Advocates. versus STATE THR. N.C.T. OF DELHI and ANR. ..... Respondents Through: Mr. Pawan Behl, APP. CORAM: HON'BLE DR. JUSTICE S.MURALIDHAR O R D E R 02.02.2009 Crl.M.A.No.1073 of 2009 Exemption allowed subject to all just exceptions. The application is disposed of. CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 and CRL.M.A. No. 1072 of 2009 (stay) 1. The facts brought to the notice of this Court by way of the present petition which seeks the quashing of proceedings arising out of FIR No. 581 of 2009 under Section 294/34 IPC are rather troubling. The Petitioners are a young couple, aged 28 and 23 years, who solemnized their marriage on 4th September 2008 at the Arya Samaj Mandir, Jamuna Bazar, Delhi apparently without the knowledge of their respective parents. They sought the services CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 1/4 of a lawyer to get their marriage registered under the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955. The lawyer asked them to come to the Dwarka Court Complex on 18th September 2008 apparently to get some paper work done in regard to the registration of their marriage. While they were waiting under the Metro Station near the court complex at around 3 pm in the afternoon, an Assistant Sub-Inspector (?ASI?) of Police Vidyadhar Singh (No. D/3563 PIS No. 16960047) attached to the Police Station Dwarka along with a constable Roshan Lal (No. 1314/SW) accosted them and allegedly told them that he knew what they were up to. According to the FIR which was registered at the instance of the Vidhyadhar Singh, he found the two Petitioners ?sitting in an objectionable position near Metro Pillar No.1140 and were kissing each other. As a result of which the passersby were feeling bad.? (This is the English translation of the FIR which was registered in Hindi which corresponds to these words). 2. The FIR records that on enquiry the ASI found that Petitioner No.2 is the wife of Petitioner No.1 residing at the same address. Learned counsel for the Petitioners clarifies that in the complaint made to the Bar Council of India and to the Commissioner of Police although the addresses of the CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 2/4 parties are shown as being in Greater Kailash, which is the permanent address of Petitioner No.1, this has been done for the sake of convenience. Since this was a love marriage without the knowledge of their respective parents, the address of Petitioner No.2 continues to be shown as being in Gurgaon. 3. What is striking is that despite the SI finding on enquiry that the two Petitioners were husband and wife living in the same place, he thought it fit to go ahead and register an FIR for an offence under Sections 294 read with 34 IPC. Although the FIR refers to ?passers by? being annoyed not a single name of any ?passer by? is found mentioned. Learned counsel for the Petitioners adds that the so-called investigation of the FIR has resulted in a charge sheet being filed on 30th January 2009 which does not refer to a single statement of any passer by recorded under Section 161 CrPC. To say the least, the FIR even when taken on its face value, does not make out a case for the offence under Section 294 read with 34 IPC. It is inconceivable how, even if one were to take what is stated in the FIR to be true, the expression of love by a young married couple, in the manner indicated in the FIR, would attract the offence of ?obscenity? and trigger the coercive process of the law. CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 3/4 4. Notice. 5. Mr. Behl, learned APP for the State accepts notice. 6. The trial court record be produced before the next date of hearing. 7. Mr. Behl further states that he will also take specific instructions on the action taken on the complaint made on 27th October 2008 by the Petitioners to the Commissioner of Police which appears to have been received in the Office of the Commissioner of Police on that day itself by Ms. Shalini Singh, DCP, S/W. 8. There will be a stay of further proceedings arising out of FIR No. 581 of 2008 till further orders. 9. List on 25th February 2009. 10. Order dasti. S.MURALIDHAR, J FEBRUARY 02, 2009 dn CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 4/4 On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 8:32 PM, A Khanna wrote: > hi all, > > i was intrigued by a news article from the bbc, pasted below, on a > case from the delhi high court where a charges of obscenity against a > couple kissing in public were dropped. thought this might be an > interesting juxtaposition with the ram sena's attacks in Mangalore. if > any of the lawyers on the list could get hold of the actual judgement, > do let me know, it would be interesting to read. and while i suspect > that Justice Muralidhar did not treat the factum of marriage as the > basis for his judgement, this report suggest as much. if this is the > case, it begs the question of what if they weren't married? what if > they were both women, or both men, or, one or both otherwise? is it > that the form of heterosexual marriage enables the delicious act of > kissing to be read as 'love'? and must a kiss be a manifestation of > 'love' to be 'acceptable' in public, or more precisely, to not be > considered an offense of obscenity? > > its a sad time when the upholding of the right to heterosexual > monogamous legally sanctioned love amounts to a radical act. > > kisses, > > akshay > .... > > India couple's kiss 'not obscene' > > A court in India has dismissed criminal proceedings against a married > couple charged with obscenity for allegedly kissing in public in the > capital. > > The Delhi high court judge wondered how an "expression of love by a > young married couple" could attract an obscenity charge. > > Police arrested the couple - a 28-year-old man and a 23-year-old woman > - for kissing near a station last September. > > Public displays of affection are still largely taboo in India. > > The police in Delhi had begun criminal proceedings against the couple > for "sitting in an objectionable position near a metro (railway > station) pillar and kissing due to which passersby were feeling bad". > > The maximum punishment for committing an "obscene act" is three months > in prison. > > Judge S Muralidhar quashed the criminal proceedings. > > He said that even if police reports were accurate "it is inconceivable > how... an expression of love by a young married couple would attract > an offence of obscenity and trigger the coercive process of law". > > The judge expressed surprise that the couple had been picked up and > charged by police despite officers being told that they were married. > > Controversies > > Reports say the couple denied in their petition to the court they were > kissing. They said they were taking self portraits on their mobile > phones. > > The lawyer who contested the case for the couple told a Delhi > newspaper: "Obscenity charges are attracted when an act is so obscene > that it encourages depravity or annoys the public. > > "In this case both these contents are missing, because the charge > sheet is silent on any passersby as originally claimed." > > Kissing in public in India has triggered controversies in the past. > > In 2007, Hollywood actor Richard Gere sparked protests in India after > kissing Celebrity Big Brother winner and Bollywood actor Shilpa Shetty > at an Aids awareness rally in Delhi. > > The protesters said Gere had insulted Indian culture by kissing the > hand and face of the actress. > > In 2005, a court in Rajasthan imposed a fine of $22 on an Israeli > couple for kissing after getting married in a traditional Hindu > ceremony in Pushkar. > > Priests were offended when the couple kissed and hugged during the > chanting of religious verses. > > In 2004, Bollywood film star Kareena Kapoor began legal proceedings > against a tabloid newspaper that published photos of her kissing her > co-star. > > She and Shahid Kapoor said the photos were doctored and were not of them. > > Story from BBC NEWS: > http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/south_asia/7866478.stm > > Published: 2009/02/03 09:47:14 GMT > > -- > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > > > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 01:15:04 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 19:45:04 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? In-Reply-To: <817381.73030.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <716837190901270841x29fc13b4k22f7b7e09d649c8f@mail.gmail.com> <817381.73030.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You could only be sure of a mute response. In case of Pakistan you are expected to maintain the 'dine & dance' bonhomie even while India conitinues to bleed at the hands of the Pakistan sponsored pan Islamists. One can only suspect the empathy being shown for the poor Palestinians since the bloody ethnic cleansing by the Pakistan loyal Kashmiri jihadis, of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits- co citizens of the most on this forum never evoked any such similar sentiment. On the contrary the perpetrators like Yassin Mallik who at the behest of his Pakistani masters along with his other jihadi cohorts brought death & destruction to our own Kashmir- in our own backyard, are being unashamedly eulogized on this forum. Regards all LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 05:19:19 -0800> From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net; zainrahimtula1 at googlemail.com> Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan?> > Hi there,> I was wondering if anyone on the reader list (besides myself), or any organisations in India are thinking of organising a boycott of Pakistan, or maybe linking up with the international recognitions of Pakistan The Terrorist State........there are a number of sites and webpages with info on Pakistan as an epicentre for promoting/fomenting Terrorism across the Globe and therefore deserving of being boycotted internationally.......it would be also interesting to investigate India's relationship with Pakistan in view of the 'Hate Agenda' against India that Pakistan has been following and continues to follow. Please let me know, many thanks,> > Kshmendra> > > --- On Tue, 1/27/09, Zain Rahimtula wrote:> > From: Zain Rahimtula > Subject: [Reader-list] anyone thinking about boycotting israeli goods?> To: "sarai list" > Date: Tuesday, January 27, 2009, 10:11 PM> > Hi there,> I was wondering if anyone on the reader list (besides> myself), or any organisations in India are thinking of organising a> boycott of Israeli goods, or maybe linking up with the international> solidarity movement (ISM)..there is a site with info on boycottiing Israel..> www.bds-palestine.net (bds stands for boycott, divestment,> sanctions)..it would be also interesting to investigate india's> relationship with israel, Please let me know, many thanks,> > Zain> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in> the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/>> > > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Plug in to the MSN Tech channel for a full update on the latest gizmos that made an impact. http://computing.in.msn.com/ From vashsand at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 01:23:41 2009 From: vashsand at hotmail.com (Sandeep) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 20:53:41 +0100 Subject: [Reader-list] FW: a kiss is just a kiss. or is it? In-Reply-To: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> References: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: From: vashsand at hotmail.comTo: a.khanna at sms.ed.ac.ukSubject: RE: [Reader-list] a kiss is just a kiss. or is it?Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 20:53:05 +0100 Akshay what ever u say extreme sexual anxity is part of hindu culture not only islam today. And Hindus r more stupid in this anxity competition than muslims. This south asian variant of human species feels pride in forgetting its own history and values . India is a country where sensualism was was made on object of somewhat scientif study (kamsutra) kalidas wrote erotic poems, our own lord Krishna was great seducer, women on mondays still offer milk to Great lord Shivas Phallus list endless. In islamic/christian/jewish religious practices u will never find this sort of eroticsm. And today these Hindu bafoons parade their stupidity by attacking pubs, not allowing kisses, enforcing dress code. Not knowing/remembering that what they r doing is actually quite islamic and victorian. In way its funny to watch these philistine Hindus forcing indians of all religions to somewhat islamic and /or victorian norms. It would be more honest if these specimen of human species i mean bajrangi, ram sena ppl etc to convert to islam and join some Lashkar Cheers Sandeep> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 15:02:57 +0000> From: A.Khanna at sms.ed.ac.uk> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] a kiss is just a kiss. or is it?> > hi all,> > i was intrigued by a news article from the bbc, pasted below, on a > case from the delhi high court where a charges of obscenity against a > couple kissing in public were dropped. thought this might be an > interesting juxtaposition with the ram sena's attacks in Mangalore. if > any of the lawyers on the list could get hold of the actual judgement, > do let me know, it would be interesting to read. and while i suspect > that Justice Muralidhar did not treat the factum of marriage as the > basis for his judgement, this report suggest as much. if this is the > case, it begs the question of what if they weren't married? what if > they were both women, or both men, or, one or both otherwise? is it > that the form of heterosexual marriage enables the delicious act of > kissing to be read as 'love'? and must a kiss be a manifestation of > 'love' to be 'acceptable' in public, or more precisely, to not be > considered an offense of obscenity?> > its a sad time when the upholding of the right to heterosexual > monogamous legally sanctioned love amounts to a radical act.> > kisses,> > akshay> ....> > India couple's kiss 'not obscene'> > A court in India has dismissed criminal proceedings against a married > couple charged with obscenity for allegedly kissing in public in the > capital.> > The Delhi high court judge wondered how an "expression of love by a > young married couple" could attract an obscenity charge.> > Police arrested the couple - a 28-year-old man and a 23-year-old woman > - for kissing near a station last September.> > Public displays of affection are still largely taboo in India.> > The police in Delhi had begun criminal proceedings against the couple > for "sitting in an objectionable position near a metro (railway > station) pillar and kissing due to which passersby were feeling bad".> > The maximum punishment for committing an "obscene act" is three months > in prison.> > Judge S Muralidhar quashed the criminal proceedings.> > He said that even if police reports were accurate "it is inconceivable > how... an expression of love by a young married couple would attract > an offence of obscenity and trigger the coercive process of law".> > The judge expressed surprise that the couple had been picked up and > charged by police despite officers being told that they were married.> > Controversies> > Reports say the couple denied in their petition to the court they were > kissing. They said they were taking self portraits on their mobile > phones.> > The lawyer who contested the case for the couple told a Delhi > newspaper: "Obscenity charges are attracted when an act is so obscene > that it encourages depravity or annoys the public.> > "In this case both these contents are missing, because the charge > sheet is silent on any passersby as originally claimed."> > Kissing in public in India has triggered controversies in the past.> > In 2007, Hollywood actor Richard Gere sparked protests in India after > kissing Celebrity Big Brother winner and Bollywood actor Shilpa Shetty > at an Aids awareness rally in Delhi.> > The protesters said Gere had insulted Indian culture by kissing the > hand and face of the actress.> > In 2005, a court in Rajasthan imposed a fine of $22 on an Israeli > couple for kissing after getting married in a traditional Hindu > ceremony in Pushkar.> > Priests were offended when the couple kissed and hugged during the > chanting of religious verses.> > In 2004, Bollywood film star Kareena Kapoor began legal proceedings > against a tabloid newspaper that published photos of her kissing her > co-star.> > She and Shahid Kapoor said the photos were doctored and were not of them.> > Story from BBC NEWS:> http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/world/south_asia/7866478.stm> > Published: 2009/02/03 09:47:14 GMT> > -- > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.> > > _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> Get news, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Check it out! _________________________________________________________________ News, entertainment and everything you care about at Live.com. Get it now! http://www.live.com/getstarted.aspx From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 01:32:42 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 20:02:42 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] anyone thinking about boycotting israeli goods? In-Reply-To: <716837190901270841x29fc13b4k22f7b7e09d649c8f@mail.gmail.com> References: <716837190901270841x29fc13b4k22f7b7e09d649c8f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi dear, how about first reacting against Pakistan that has been bleeding India for the past two decades beginning with the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits in the valley & followed by scores of deadly terror attacks by the jihadis across India . What about 26-29/11 massacre by Pakistani pan islamists ? The blood of innocent unarmed Indians on the Mumbai pavements is still fresh ..... Regards all LA ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 22:11:24 +0530> From: zainrahimtula1 at googlemail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] anyone thinking about boycotting israeli goods?> > Hi there,> I was wondering if anyone on the reader list (besides> myself), or any organisations in India are thinking of organising a> boycott of Israeli goods, or maybe linking up with the international> solidarity movement (ISM)..there is a site with info on boycottiing Israel..> www.bds-palestine.net (bds stands for boycott, divestment,> sanctions)..it would be also interesting to investigate india's> relationship with israel, Please let me know, many thanks,> > Zain> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ For the freshest Indian Jobs Visit MSN Jobs http://www.in.msn.com/jobs From lalitambardar at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 02:34:26 2009 From: lalitambardar at hotmail.com (Lalit Ambardar) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 21:04:26 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Coming from the author of such a touching presentation like "na ches taty, na yeti"( i am neither there nor here) this attempt to surrect now almost abandoned 'original sinner' who founded the 'gun' culture in the valley at the behest of his Pakistani masters is intriguing. Kashmiris, in the past two decades have gone through the hell - the selective brutal targetting that led to the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits in the valley -the plight of ordinary Kashmiri Muslims who were coerced in to following the jihadi diktats- the destruction of the very social fabric called Kashmiriyat etc. etc.........& who claimed credit for having ferried weapons in to Kashmir to launch the jihad - the one you are trying to glorify. Please,understand he does not represent the Kashmiri Muslims - last year but for the timely intervention of the security forces his cohorts would have been lynched by the followers of that part time moolvi/separatist Umar Farooq when JKLF wanted to open an outlet in the territory of Umar Farooq only a couple of kilometres away from the JKLF fiefdom . The misery of exodus is not missed in your post but the frustration canot be justify glorification of a terrorist . It is difficult to guess the motive that has driven a well qualified artist towards a terror commander at whose instigation & motivation hundreds of docile Kashmiri Muslims, in the name of Islam,embraced death leaving behind their mothers ,widows & orphans wailling for their loved ones. It could be akin to the infatuation of that Napales damsel for that serial 'bikini killer' or it is all in the name of jihad......????.... Will marital bliss to this killer of Kashmiriyat make him repent for his deeds .......???..... Or is this a ploy to generate sympathy to escape the law.....????.......or part of a new game.....???..... Regards all LA ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:39:25 +0530> From: indersalim at gmail.com> To: reader-list at sarai.net> Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice> > Dear all> Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik,> the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is> interesting.> > http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx> > I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin> Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the> Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention.> > Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that> applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously> he grasped the Kashmir issue.> > Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities.> Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and> going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as> his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to> stay behind veil all the time.> > One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi (> predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a> Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea,> but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice,> particularly for women.> > Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take> Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi> but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his> choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the> cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his> choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will> he let Musaall speak her mind freely ?> > Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly> about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has> any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens> to get married to a non-J&K citizen. That is truly against Women. But> slowly, I want Yasin to speak about this issue as well, even at the> cost of popularity. No previous govt has dared to speak about this> issue. The present Govt in J&K too will never support any idea like> that. So, he can outwit them on this account. This is golden chance.> Things like that can bring some real changes for a smooth and> dignified return of Kashmiri Pandits to Valley.> > The other issue is environment, which is as serious as Women's issues.> I have not gone though his agenda of Safray-Azadi but I wish issues> like that are thoroughly woven in his Azadi text. He needs to speak> about the need to protect the flora and fauna in J&K, besides a> sincere call for a simple living. He needs to talk about the revival> of folk arts and other forms of artistic expressions.> > This I am writing at a time when J&K is entering a special post free> election phase for a great good governance. But that is that. We still> have KASHMIR ISSUE, staring into our eyes as before. So, when every> other intellectual in India is dismissive about Hurriyat who obviously> gained nothing by giving Boycott call for Elections; I see them very> much there, as significant as ever.> > Indeed people like me who were victims of 1990 approach to Kashmir> Problem, but I believe, that some fresh approach is needed to> understand Kashmir. It just happens that Kashmir is a Muslim Majority> area, but Kashmir is not a Muslim problem, but a problem similar to> Buddhist Tibet. There has to be some inner need to understand the> troubles which a line called 'territory' inflicts on us. Why Kashmir> was divided. What is LOC after all?> > I know, there will be lot of angry reaction to this small mail, but I> hope some restraint, and cool minded approach. I am truly myself> looking for some answers. I don't see a great politician around with> some vision to bring a real change in our society, both at grass root> level and beyond.> > Capitalistic and narrow minded politics has ruined our systems of> living, and we are left with a situation like in Gaza where Israel is> openly killing women and children. Europe and America are silent,> which means they are not bothered by Palestine problem as they see it.> So, Hamas is bad, even when they have people's support.> > So, imagine, if tomorrow Hurriyat decides to fight elections in J&K ,> and if they come to power and declare freedom on the very first day of> office, what choice India has? Arrest them there, with head lines> against Indian Democracy all over the world. So, is non-participation> is a blessing in disguise for Indian Government ?> > Let us talk to Yasin, more meaningfully, than before. I am talking> on my own behalf.> > With love and regards> Inder salim> > > --> _________________________________________> reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city.> Critiques & Collaborations> To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with subscribe in the subject header.> To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> _________________________________________________________________ Wish to Marry Now? Join MSN Matrimony FREE! http://www.in.msn.com/matrimony From lawrence at altlawforum.org Thu Feb 5 10:41:33 2009 From: lawrence at altlawforum.org (Lawrence Liang) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 10:41:33 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a kiss is just a kiss. or is it? In-Reply-To: References: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: Hi all Apologies for a long post, but hope it is of some interest to those of us invested in the physical and smbolic acts of kissing, as well as of the law. I think given the current atmosphere of moralpolicing, this is a very welcome order, (the judge begins by acknowledging the troubling nature of a case like this being brought t cout, and ends by saying that it is inconceiveable how an expression of love, albeit between a married couple, could be obscene) I think the question of whether it is radical or not is a misdirected one. It instead might be more useful to use the order as a way of thinking about the relationshiop of law to diverse states of being, of emotional expression and the limits of the law. The question is not whether it is a radical act or not, rather it may be understood in terms of how is that the law comes to judge a kiss, and in doing so, what conceptions of the kiss does it evoke: Does it have a rich understanding of the kiss or a poor one? If the entire issue is indeed decided on the basis of the appropriate space of intimacy, whether it should be conducted publicly or privately, then where do we turn to even understand the Laws of intimacy? If the kiss is the object of objection, then what are the ways in which we deal with this object? For instance do we deal with it, on its own terms ( a good kiss v, a bad one, a real kiss v. a fake one) or do we have to constantly mobilize other resources (Public v. private, married v. non married?) If kissing in public is against the idea of Indian culture, what are the sources beyond some general invocation of Indian culture that is being relied on? Because given the publicness of our erotic temples, surely it cant be the case that public display of erotic affection is a civilizational anomaly. I would like to draw your attention to a marvelous article which addresses many of these questions. *Peter Goodrich, The Laws of Love: Literature, History and the Regulation of kissing: 24 N.Y.U Rev. L & Soc. Change, 183(1998)* For the benefit of those who may not have access to the article, I am summarizing and extracting from the article which opens out exciting ways in which we can think of the relationship between the kiss and the law. Goodrich argues that the while the law is often called upon to address the appropriateness of intimate erotic acts occurring in public and quasi-public spaces, we must acknowledge that the lawyers are also not, by any training or special knowledge the best legislators of kissing. As a result, when such disputes do arise, the consequences are that the results that emerge are usually couched in negative terms. Thus certain forms of affection are banned from public spaces; The ability to determine these matters suggest that the law has a theory of the role of eros and intimacy in making of a public world; But if the law is a specific body of knowledge that derives its authority over the world through memory ( as enshrined as precedent), then the question is where do such precedents lie? Goodrich argues that the common law may not be the best site for understanding the kiss, but it is not an act whose regulation is beyond comprehension or even historical evidence. Goodrich then lays out a fascinating history of the regulation of kissing, particularly as it developed in the history of Christianity, and then in medieval Europe in the courts of love and literature. According to him, Christianity, which was a religion of the 'logos' or word and connected Truth with the "sermo humilis" and the pentecostal speaking in tongues, and knowledge came from the lips. On of the early Christian commentaries speaking on the Song of Songs, says that the kiss was the principal form of salvation in that it was through the kiss of knowledge that the word would be passed from Christ to his followers. Thus, when the Song of Songs famously importunes "[l]et him kiss me with the kisses of his Mouth", it is illumination of the soul, divine grace, for which the supplicant pleads." The kiss was thus the union of the word and the soul. In the exchange of breath that takes place in kissing, two souls would intermingle and unite. The insufflation of the kiss was an inhalation of knowledge, and constituted an exchange that was spiritual rather than sexual, and institutional rather than carnal. Si in early Christianity, the kiss aided in the development and intensification of community which leads the faithful eventually to a knowledge of God. Goodrich then traces the rather elaborate doctrinal history that accompanies this idea of the sacred character of the kiss. He shows us of rinstance a taxonomy of kissing which ranges from the osculum pads, or kiss of brotherhood, which was a physical kiss, a kiss on the mouth, but one which was exchanged as a sign of truth and of peace. Then you have the spiritual kiss, a kiss that took place not by virtue of the meeting of mouth or contact of lips but by the joining of the affections of the mind, and it was this kiss that enabled believers to mingle and unite in the single body of the Church. Finally, the highest level of the kiss, the intellectual embrace, was in a sense the prolongation of the spiritual kiss. A spiritual kiss of sufficient intensity and duration would transcend the bodies of those that embraced and rather than being the friend or Christian brother that was kissed and being kissed it was now Christ who was kissed and being kissed through the creature or lips of the believer. But here comes the catch, stages of the Christian kiss, could be mimicked by the unfaithful and so lead not to salvation or knowledge but to a corporeal desire marked by ignorance and deceit. The false kiss treated the lips of the other not as the sign of, and means of access to, an invisible grace, but rather as an end in themselves, as sensual presence and the means of a purely carnal embrace. the sin of idolatry was depicted as being that of allowing sight to terminate upon the physical representation or plastic form of faith, so too the plain kiss which when used by non believers, it became a false kiss, which ended its quest for satisfaction upon the body of the subject kissed. The face of the other here became a false image, an idol upon which desire in the form of the kiss both doted and fed. Goodrich's interest in laying out he history of the regulation of kissing as it emerges in Christianity is also to understand the development of the language from where kisses are understood, and what kind of inheritances, the modern legal system may have drawn from in their understanding of the regulation of amorous activities. He says *"In contemporary and more pluralistic doctrinal contexts, the specific resonances of impurity, heresy, or paganism, attached to false kisses is less important than the language and classificatory schemata through which the art and practice of kissing was made accessible and available to some species of judgment. This early law on kissing had a remarkable and peculiarly radical theoretical perspicuity. Specifically, it recognized and acknowledged an erotic charge, a substrate of desire or indeed libidinal economy,' that not simply underpinned but literally constituted community. Desire pervaded the social, and eros, as motive or as expression, was acknowledged to be present in all institutional relationships as a dimension not only of power but of speech as such. The importance of the early law of kissing thus lies primarily in its ability to acknowledge and address the role of desire in all forms of social contact or institutional intercourse. So too, rather than attempting to deny or exclude public expressions of erotic desire, the doctrine of kissing attempted rather to understand and map an art and practice of embrace that both acknowledged the pervasive value of desire and limited inappropriate forms of its expression through a code, an epistemic, of the relation of kissing to truth. Love, in other words, required expression, and this was recognized to be as true of the polity as of the domestic sphere. It remains to point out that in the literary tradition of the courts of love, this insight into the relation between desire, community and knowledge, gains further and vivid elaboration. In kissing, in tasting the other,124 we come to know them in their difference and in their desire, and we come also to know what is possible, what lies in the future of our love". * Goodrich then goes on to examine the regulation of the kisses in courtly love, in literature and in the fascinating courts of love. He writes of a mid-fifteenth century case reported in Martial d'Auvergne, Les Arréts D 'Amour, which was heard before the Court of Flowers, where a woman complained that she had been amongst friends in a public garden when her lover had happened to come upon her and had joined her. According to her complaint, he had come up beside her and "pretending to want to say something private in her ear, he had lifted the hood of her cape and suddenly had kissed her.""' Her complaint was that this kiss had embarrassed her in front of her friends. It was, at least in her argument, to be treated as if it had been stolen in public: it was larrecin publique or public larceny of a kiss. Her request to the Court was that in the future her lover should be forbidden to approach her or touch her in public."' For his part, the impugned lover claimed that when he chanced upon his lover he took the opportunity to whisper declarations of love in her ear and while doing so had slipped. In consequence his lips had brushed against her ear and her cheek. This could hardly, in his view, be regarded as a kiss."' Upon deliberation the Court held that the complaint was badly made. It could not be public theft of a kiss for a lover to surprise his beloved with so innocent and amorous a declaration and act. A lover should not be embarrassed by a public kiss but should rather welcome the attention and the honesty of the expression. It was ordered that when the couple next met in public the woman should kiss her lover openly and freely. In his commentary on that case, Benoit de Court argues that the laws of love had always recognized the finely marked differences between different types of kiss. Thus a kiss between lovers in an open place was a legitimate and desirable expression of affection, provided that the kiss was not overlong or too salacious. It was not theft, he concluded, publicly to kiss a lover, "so long as the hands did not wander lasciviously, and so long as there was no biting of the lips." The kiss was thus held to belong quite properly within the public sphere, as also within the institution, and should not be hidden or furtive but rather declared and indulged. The domain of love, therefore, did not recognize arbitrary divisions between private and public, or between intimacy and institution. The kiss belonged to an economy of desire that both subtended and exceeded the public domain of secular or venal interaction. Kissing was the usual form not only of entry into the domain of love but more formally of sealing the agreement of love or alliance d'amour whereby lovers committed themselves to each other and publically declared an undying allegiance to the cause and space of their mutual desire. Goodrich's argument is simply, that the questions of love are best judged according to laws of love. Simple, and indeed alliterative, though this proposition might appear, its implications for legal thought are radical. That love should have its laws means at the very least that the ailing modern concept of a single jurisdiction and uniform agonistic procedure for all legal cases should be abandoned explicitly. At its simplest, it does not make sense to litigate emotions as if they were proprietary benefits or duties. Nor does it speak well of the legal enterprise to assume that a substantive law that historically has ignored the emotions and left the sphere of intimacy to the private realm, to the law of the father, is the appropriate or only source of precedents for the development of the rules that are to govern the expressions of desire in the public world. - From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 11:11:48 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:11:48 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? In-Reply-To: References: <716837190901270841x29fc13b4k22f7b7e09d649c8f@mail.gmail.com> <817381.73030.qm@web57207.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: How does one boycott Pakistan? Haven't we already done that by not playing cricket with them. But interestingly, while we boycott Pakistani cricket team because of the Mumbai terror, we play cricket with Sri Lankans who are killing so many Tamils in Sri Lanka. Why can't we boycott them as well. (and interestingly, Sri Lanka has decided to play cricket with Pakistan any way). I think the only way to fully boycott Pakistan is to simply eject the entire landmass of that country from the planet earth and send it spiralling into outer space - that's the only way the terrorism can be solved. Then the empty space will be filled with the water from the Arabian sea and it may actually solve the problem of global warming. Maybe we can tag along Afghanistan too with (Osama will certainly leave earth then) and send them to outer space - they will also meet the Iranians there (who have just sent their satellite). Good way to solve many problems in one go. On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 1:15 AM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > You could only be sure of a mute response. > > In case of Pakistan you are expected to maintain the 'dine & dance' bonhomie even while India conitinues to bleed at the hands of the Pakistan sponsored pan Islamists. > > One can only suspect the empathy being shown for the poor Palestinians since the bloody ethnic cleansing by the Pakistan loyal Kashmiri jihadis, of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits- co citizens of the most on this forum never evoked any such similar sentiment. > > On the contrary the perpetrators like Yassin Mallik who at the behest of his Pakistani masters along with his other jihadi cohorts brought death & destruction to our own Kashmir- in our own backyard, are being unashamedly eulogized on this forum. > Regards all > LA From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 11:11:57 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:11:57 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] J&K 2008: Let us not learn the wrong lessons Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902042141j2d7af363kf7bae329c866fd50@mail.gmail.com> J&K 2008: Let us not learn the wrong lessons Ajay Chrungoo http://www.vijayvaani.com/FrmPublicDisplayArticle.aspx?id=378 The 2008 elections are now over. A power shift has taken place. The PDP-Congress alliance has been replaced in the state by the NC-Congress alliance. The Chief Ministership has reverted back to a Kashmiri for full six years, if the alliance lasts that long. All the major portfolios like home, finance, planning, revenue and power have been retained by the National Conference, signifying the retrieval of the status quo of power. This status quo had marginally changed during the PDP-Congress alliance. There are attempts to analyse the assembly verdict in Jammu & Kashmir through the traditional 'secular' prism and draw inferences which are either false or far-fetched. Wrong assessments will eventually affect the success or failure of the 'government' which has been catapulted to power at a critical time when a stand-off between India and Pakistan is building in intensity. *Understanding the failure of Boycott* The turnout of voters in this election, particularly in the Kashmir valley, has been phenomenal, more than 50% on average. It is a big victory for the electoral process in the Kashmir Valley. Many an eminent Kashmir analyst in New Delhi had prophesied that, "the government will be lucky if they get more than 10 percent people to come out and vote." Out of all segments of people living in Jammu & Kashmir, only Kashmiri Pandits abstained from voting. Their vote percentage was less than 10% and that too despite the fact that more than 43 Pandit candidates were in the electoral fray and there was also no boycott call. Both the factions of Hurriyat Conference campaigned for boycott of elections well before the onset of elections. JKLF through its protracted 'Safar-e-Azadi' campaign focused eventually on poll boycott at the conclusion of its rallies and interactions across the length and breadth of the Valley. Mirwaiz Omar Farooq, Chairman of the All Party Hurriyat Conference, had declared with confidence that "there will be 100 percent poll boycott." Ali Shah Geelani, to enlarge the appeal of 'boycott slogan,' even praised JKLF chief Yasin Malik and stated "we want boycott Safar-e-Azadi way." Analysts who conclude that the 2008 elections have been a decisive rebuff to separatists essentially underline the 'boycott call' as the only indispensable strategy of the separatists. The flexibility and the deftness of the strategic interventions of Separatists in the Valley get overlooked in this formulation. The Separatists' establishment does give consideration to all such tactics which de-legitimise the democratic process in the state. But they have always valued deepening of its entrenchment in the power structures within the state. Separatism in the Valley has always considered its reach and sway to influence and control the elected governments in the state as its primary support structure, perhaps as important as the support of Pakistan. De-legitimising elections by labelling them as rigged or coerced process, or by campaigning for boycott, are not simple black and white imperatives which the Separatists pursue. They operate more in the grey area where they engage directly or indirectly in the election process. They influence the election manifesto and party policies of the political formations participating in elections. They influence the selection of candidates; they throw up proxy candidates. The most essential objective which is pursued is not to allow any paradigm shift in state policy and ensure that subversive entrenchment is only deepened, never eroded. The entire spectrum of separatist strategies has evolved over a period of time. Ali Shah Geelani got himself elected to the state assembly, but relentlessly challenged the Indian constitution and debunked the election process. Jamaat-i-Islami portrayed the National Conference as its ideological rival in Kashmir and squarely blamed it for the accession of Jammu & Kashmir to India. Anti-Jamaat rivalry manifested in the streets when massive anti-Jamaat riots were led by NC cadres. But this rivalry was not a black and while phenomenon. A symbiotic relationship between the NC and Jamaat, particularly in the electoral sphere, existed right till 2002. Jamaat cadres would mobilise voters for NC,and NC would reciprocate by increasing Jamaat entrenchment in the administration. Jamaat and other separatist formations built the same symbiotic relationship with the newly formed PDP well before 2002, and carried it right through the elections in 2008. There was, of course, a conflict of interests between separatist formations including Jamaat-i-Islami and PDP which came into the public domain in the last few years. Separatists visualised PDP as a usurper of its agenda. The stand off between PDP and separatist formations would have continued, but the terrorist attack in Mumbai changed the course of events in the Valley. Increased isolation of Pakistan and pressures on separatists' feeder channels made Jamaat-i-Islami change track. Mufti, as per reports, had been intensely campaigning for their support. It is difficult to comment as to when exactly Jamaat decided to come out whole hog in support of PDP, but its involvement in the elections started manifesting right after the first phase, and rose to a crescendo in later phases. Top Jamaat leaders were seen openly campaigning for PDP in Kulgam, Shopian, Pulwama. Analysts read too much into the anti-election rhetoric of Ali Shah Geelani, but ignored the traditional line of Jamaat-i-Islami which maintained distance from boycott call and cautioned that in the prevailing political scenario such a stance may prove 'counter-productive.' One thing is very clear. The separatist establishment intervened in the election process not to boycott as was their public stance, but actually to increase the turnout of voters. This assessment does not at all indicate that even if separatists would have campaigned aggressively for boycott, they would have actually succeeded. In that eventuality, voter turnout would have been less, but certainly an improvement over the 2002 elections. *Other factors* The rural-urban divide in the Valley and developmental issues were a dominant consideration for the people. Sweeping inferences are being drawn by some analysts in Delhi that the growth of PDP in the Valley is primarily a reflection of rural-urban divide, rather than of a communal campaign. But many credible analysts have come out openly to record that PDP campaign had a brazen communal character. Noted columnist Parveen Swami states, "for the PDP, the returns from the incendiary communal campaign it ran this summer, as well as its efforts to reach out to secessionists have been disappointing." Immediately after the election results were declared, Dr. Farooq Abdullah openly accepted that the PDP ran a campaign on 'Islamist agenda'. Many residents of Kulgam area confided in their Pandit friends that Ms. Mehbooba Mufti was openly telling voters to choose between a 'school or a mosque'. "We are for Mosque. If you choose a Mosque, a school will automatically come. But not the other way." PDP in its expositions has been identifying with Muslim causes globally, more than NC. It has sought to project 'Self-rule" as more in consonance with the movement of pan-Islamism rather than of Kashmiri aspirations. However, underplaying the rural-urban divide as an important influence on the elections will be equally incorrect. Rural-Urban divide has evolved in the Kashmir Valley with the emergence of a large rural middle class over the years, as reflected by the emergence of Mufti Mohd. Sayeed, late Abdul Gani Lone, Jamaat-i-Islami and MuF. This time PDP made significant inroads into North Kashmir. PDP won six seats there, while the NC has done marginally better by winning seven seats. Central Kashmir, extending between Kangan and Ganderbal with Srinagar as its core, has been virtually swept by the National Conference. However, PDP retained its stranglehold on South Kashmir where it won 12 out of 16 seats. The better performance of PDP is a reflection of the urge of the rural political class to control political power. This rural-urban rivalry has deepened over the years and now spilled into the public domain. Previously this divide was subdued, but now it has burst into the open and its reverberations can still be heard. Recently, M.G. Hassan Mukhtar, a freelance journalist, wrote in Kashmir Times: "The original citizens of Srinagar treat all villagers as second class irrespective of the language they speak. If a villager goes to moon the urbanities would never digest it and rather pull his legs... In reality the superiority complex (read inferiority complex of foolishness) of urban fellows on the basis of nothing towards villagers is not a good thing." In Srinagar this bitterness can be gauged by a cursory talk on politics at a vegetable vendors' shop or a burger shop. The increased developmental process in rural areas during the PDP-Congress regime has heightened the divide. Mufti used the Prime Minister's Gram Sadak Yojna to build extensive road connectivity, particularly in South Kashmir. Any village with a population of 500 or more was connected by a metalled road. A large portion of the 24,000 crore special aid package to Kashmir was spent in rural areas. Creation of development authorities in Gulmarg, Tangmarg Pahalgam, Sonmarg and many other places hastened the developmental process in rural areas which translated into political benefits for Mufti. Mufti has not only used the fundamentalist card and soft secessionist slogans, but also the rural-urban divide and developmental slogans to stabilise his party. The NC retained its previous number of 28 in the assembly; PDP increased its tally from 18 to 21. In 2008 elections there has been an overall swing of 5 percent in favour of PDP, which has shown a tendency to grow all over the Valley and made a dent in certain areas of Jammu. Chief Minister Omar Abdullah acknowledged this trend openly: "the results definitely gave a fair idea that PDP is making inroads everywhere in Valley. I think we need to take stock of it." *Jammu results * Belittling the communal contours of PDP's rise, 'liberal' analysts infer a rise of communal stridency in the Jammu region which columnists like Prem Shankar Jha describe as 'historical,' as if it is integral to the attitude of people in Jammu. Even a better informed journalist like Parveen Swami does not contest such sweeping generalizations and comments that "despite the apparently dramatic improvement in BJP's fortunes, which have taken it from just one seat in 2002 to 11 now, Hindu chauvinism hasn't yielded exceptional pay-offs." The massive support to the Amarnath agitation in Jammu and heightened consciousness about the systematic and organised discrimination meted out to Jammu is an expression of Hindu chauvinism for 'liberal' intellectuals in India. This is perhaps expression of a faulty vision which recognises concessions to Muslim identity politics in J&K as a secular imperative. In Jammu province, Congress won 13 seats and BJP 11 seats. There was almost a 3 percent negative swing against Congress and a 10 percent swing in favour of the BJP. The latter was the runner-up in 13 seats and number three in 7 constituencies in Jammu region, which means it has now decisively staked its claim for at least 30 constituencies in Jammu. But is the rise of BJP an outcome of communal polarisation in the aftermath of Amarnath agitation? Certain features of the election outcome in Jammu have to be recognised to answer this question. BJP candidates lost in most of the constituencies where the intensity of Amarnath agitation was high. It suffered defeat in Kathua, Billawar, Samba Vijaypur, Bishnah, Gandhi Nagar, Chhamb, Akhnoor Udhampur, Chenani and Ramban. Mostly Congress candidates won from these constituencies, with one each going to National Conference and JK National Panthers Party. Congress lost to BJP in constituencies where the Amaranth agitation was weak, like Reasi, Basohli and Bani. The defeat of Shilpi Verma, widow of Kuldeep Verma, martyr of Amarnath agitation, is revealing. Also notable is the fact that Congress candidates who won had a better record as MLA's or ministers and also supported the Amarnath agitation. Sham Lal Sharma from Akhnoor and Raman Bhalla from Gandhi Nagar are the best examples of this. Almost all Congress ministers in the previous assembly lost this time, such as Mangat Ram Sharma and Gulchain Singh Charak. They did not come out openly in favour of Amarnath agitation. Even star campaigners of BJP like L.K. Advani, Rajnath Singh, Narendra Modi, Arun Jaitly, Murli Manohar Joshi, Navjot Singh Sidhu could not succeed in wooing voters against Congress candidates who had performed well as sitting MLAs and unambiguously identified with the sentiment of Jammu. *Sidelights* It may be pertinent to record some observations for the future. Sakina Itoo won from South Kashmir against the tide of Islamists. Mohd. Yusuf Tarigami of CPM defeated his PDP rival for whom Jamaat led a no-holds-barred campaign. Mr. Tarigami, who at every opportunity supported the separatists' cause and undermined the exodus of Kashmiri Pandits, seemed trailing almost to the end of the counting process, only to sail across after a few hundred Pandit votes cast in his favour were counted towards the end. Kashmiri Pandit votes cast in small numbers showed preference for the NC where the main choice was between NC and PDP. Dr. Shafi of PDP won from Beerwah constituency by a mere 124 votes, which included 80 votes from KP's. This may be an exception because he was favoured not for his party affiliation and was considered a better person having close relationship with the Pandits of his constituency. Congress won 3 seats from Kashmir Valley, and did well in 5 more constituencies. It has at least a clear demarcated chunk of 10 assembly seats to work for in the next elections *Conclusion* The 2008 mandate can stabilise the situation if NC plays its cards well. After 2002 elections, the NC adopted a policy line of mirroring or aping the PDP line. It changed its policy on Pakistan and terrorism hoping to steal a march ahead of the PDP. At election time, the fundamentalist establishment and Pakistan made a choice in favour of the PDP, leaving it in the lurch. Will NC ride the same ideological bandwagon? Congress has survived on the edge. Will it ignore its legislative base as it has done in the past and loose its relevance in Jammu? BJP enthused by the response of the people during the elections, and hoping to win around 25 seats, threw enough hints that it was ready to join hands with the PDP or NC to come to power. It has shown willing to dispense with its ideological baggage, for which it still has space in Jammu. Will it play the power game or the role of an instrument to bring a fundamental change in power balance in favour of Jammu? CPM has survived as a sole presence in the present assembly from Kulgam constituency in Kashmir Valley. Jamaat declared it a party of 'Kuffar' but people still voted it to power in a stiff battle. Will CPIM still flirt with Muslim communalism and separatism as it has done so far? The future in J&K is pregnant with possibilities, good and bad. * Dr. Ajay Chrungoo is chairman, Panun Kashmir * From pawan.durani at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 11:16:44 2009 From: pawan.durani at gmail.com (Pawan Durani) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:16:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Swat - Paradise Lost Message-ID: <6b79f1a70902042146o6522ddb2s55da9ef3bc1391e7@mail.gmail.com> Swat the most beautiful land in the South Asian Region other than Kashmir, where the peaks overlooking the valley were covered in snow, as what was the countryside as you drive along the partly frozen Swat River. People happily recalling their various trips to this magical valley in which one would enjoy its lush green land, the scenic beauty of the vegetated woodlands, the dry fruits trees with all its fruits dangling from the branches, the aroma of blooming flowers, the herbal medicinal aura and the hospitable people who live there. Today one would be sadly sorry for all those who can no longer venture out there! But apart from the many tourists who would forever be denied the beauty of this place, I pity the people of Swat who have been so badly let down by the Pakistani state and its people. Tens of thousands have been forced to flee their homes, as Swat descends deeper and deeper into chaos and despair everyday. 'Mullah Radio' was the name given to Maulana Fazlullah for his daily FM broadcasts in which he calls, among the other things; for people to stop their children from getting anti-polio shots. According to him, the government teams going around immunizing children against this dreaded disease are actually making them sterile. The Muslim Ummah is being subjugated to the evils of the Yahoudhi (Jew) lobbies??? Terrified, the paramedics halted their efforts in Swat. As they are scathed, beaten and even kidnapped for ransom from the International Donors to finance their Jihads for Islam. Many intellectuals had written to the Pakistani Government, that they should immediately put a stop to the maulana's illegal broadcasts. But this was before 9/11, at a time when President Musharraf was wooing the mullahs and the jihadis for his and his government's own benefits. So Mullah Radio and his band of merry men kind, gathered strength and gained supporters, confident that the authorities would not lay a finger on them. And now that push has finally come to shove, the Pak Army has discovered that it does not have the muscle to displace these militants who have taken over Swat completely. In a sobering article last week in a local newspaper, Zubeida Mustafaunderlined the plight of the people of Swat, and asked "why there were no large protests against the killers who were terrorizing the valley". Why not indeed? It is a sad fact that while we Pakistanis are (rightly) incensed over the recent assault on Gaza by the Israelis, and other attacks on Muslims by non-Muslims in the Kashmir region, we choose to turn a blind eye by even worse Muslim-on-Muslim atrocities. Thus, most editorial writers, columnists and TV commentators reserve their fury and invectiveness for western targets, while glossing over what Muslims are actually doing to their fellow Muslim countrymen. In Swat, there have been grisly beheadings and public executions. Every evening, Shah Doran broadcasts names on the militant hit-list, presumably on Mullah Radio's old FM frequency. When some journalist asked at a news briefing by the Pak Army's version of the story was that 'we cannot jam the signal of Mullah Radio's FM frequency, as we do not have the required latest jamming instruments". The American Government has been financing Pakistan on "War on Terror" since 9/11 with logistics, intelligence and even the latest technology support. This is all bullshit! Imagine the Pak Army does not the required instruments???? Whom are they fooling? "Nearly 260 girls' schools have been blown up or torched. Scores of video rental shops and hair-cutting establishments have been attacked and forced to shut down. Women dare not leave their homes, and more than 80,000 girls have been deprived of an education!!! Currently, some 4,000 militants are battling 12,000 troops for control of the valley, and thus far, the terrorists are winning. According to reporters who have been covering the conflict, the Pak Army has been reluctant to engage the enemy, preferring to lob artillery shells in the general direction of militant redoubts in the mountains. As soon as night falls, our soldiers retreat into their camps while the jihadis rule the valley. In their ranks are a large number of fighters with Central Asian features. If this situation has been allowed to develop in Swat, an integral part of the North Western Frontier Province, and not a tribal area, imagine what things must be like in Waziristan and Mohmand agencies. Clearly, things are rapidly spinning out of control, and the government cannot establish its writ over large parts of the country. Many efforts have been made to engage the terrorists in dialogues. Each one has failed as the jihadis, sensing the weakness of the Pakistani state, and thriving on the support they get from so many TV talk-show hosts and their guests, go for the jugular. It is only natural for the PM's adviser on interior affairs to keep his cards close to his chest. Divulging the details of the government's 'new strategy' for combating militancy in Swat might make us wiser in terms of what lies ahead but would also give the Taliban advance knowledge of future operations. But such secrecy comes at a price. Not knowing the details, the public can ask whether Thursday's assurance that militancy in Swat will be quelled in the next few weeks can really be taken as read. Is Rehman Malik's statement, a reflection of a paradigm shifts in counter-insurgency tactics or is he simply buying time? How will the security apparatus succeed now when so many attempts have failed in the past? Will a renewed push by the military deliver the goods in a situation that is dire and in which the state is often seen as cowering in the face of the militants' brazen disregard of its writ? Has it finally sunk in that deals have been struck from a position of weakness, such as the Swat peace talks of May 2008, can never be successful? Such pacts signed by nerveless hands simply allow the Taliban to regroup and inflict further misery on the long-suffering people of Swat, and by extension the nation of Pakistan. With the exception of Maulana Fazlullah and his band of militants, most of them are outsiders. The entrepreneurial people of Swat who depend on tourism for a living desire deliverance from the scourge of Talibanization. Will we come to their aid when they need the most? Nobody knows what lies ahead. The battle can be won or lost in Swat but defeat is simply not an option. The details of the 'new strategy' may be hazy but one thing is certain: the Pakistani government, its people and the military must be on the same page if the common enemy is to be overcome! The Talibans in Swat, a settled district, take cover behind human shields, behind innocent men, women and children. The Pak Army has understandably come in for flak for the 'collateral damage' caused in the pursuit of militants, most notably from politicians based in the NWFP. Instead of shelling residential areas, the militants need to be flushed out and taken on one-to-one. This will require more boots on the ground. The Taliban do not outnumber the soldiers of the Pakistan Army. The extremists, our enemies, constitute so small a minority of the population that their impact should be negligible. But that is clearly not the case. They have the upper hand as we speak and need to be dealt a telling blow. This has to be done, for negotiating peace with the obscurantist's is possible only from a position of strength. Without wanting to cast doubts on the courage of the soldiers engaged in a difficult battle, I must question the tactics being deployed. Counter-insurgency operations are now a central part of the training many armies impart. But we have stuck to conventional warfare training, based on the assumption that our enemy is India. This one-dimensional approach has failed to equip our officers and soldiers with the tactics to beat the irregular but well-equipped forces they now face across the NWFP. But more than the inadequate military preparations that have handicapped Pakistan in the fight-back against the jihadis; it is the lack of a political consensus. With the country's two biggest political parties, the PPP and the PML-N, locked in a bitter power struggle, those in power have little time to focus on the real danger facing Pakistan. For its part, the media seems to be united on only one thing: hostility towards the West, and specifically, on criticism of the American drone attacks against militant targets in FATA –Federally Administered Tribal Agency. The truth few Pakistanis are willing to face is that almost every such missile attack has killed and wounded militants, both foreign and home-grown. And while there have been a number of civilians killed and hurt, this is the unfortunate price for providing shelter to terrorists. If this sounds callous, ponder over the alternatives: who else would go after these killers? As our army has demonstrated time and again, it has neither the capability, nor the intelligence, to rid us of these killers. The Pakistani government must change its strategy to deal with the issue as the present one has completely failed. The army as well as political leadership must act in unison to recapture the territory and the authority lost to these militants. The underscored need for armed forces and the intelligence agencies need to respond to the allegations that the Taliban outfits still enjoy support within the establishment. The government does not have any strategy to deal with the problem. When the government has never taken the nation into confidence on these issues, how can it develop a consensus on it?" The parliament should frame a comprehensive National Security Policy, and that the army should be given a clear cut mission. But sadly this will never happen. The Muslims are perfectly aware that these Taliban's are their own people and what they are doing is decreed by the Holy Quran and by Prophet Mohammed. The current turmoil is a war on the state of Pakistan. It is not the struggle for Shariah but a war perpetrated by these elements on humanity! The 'war on terror' is still surrounded by confusion as to whose war was it? All those unwilling to submit to the state and refused to become part of dialogue must be taken on with an iron hand. They must be eliminated. The correctness at the strategic level is a prerequisite for success in the war on terror. Our leaders, both in and out of uniform, have repeatedly said such attacks are 'counter-productive'. So how about launching some 'productive' attacks that would convince the Americans (and us Pakistanis) that we are capable of fighting these jihadis on our own? Again, without wishing to belittle the courage or the sacrifices of our soldiers, we must recognise that so far, the war is going very badly for us. At this stage of the battle, it is too late to pin the blame on the individuals and institutions responsible for having allowed this situation to develop. If we wish to turn the tide, different tactics are needed. One thing that might focus minds is for the army to organize trips to the battlefield for politicians and journalists. Let them share what the people of Swat are going through, even if for a couple of days. Perhaps then they might see where the real danger lies. * Source not known to me . This was forwarded to me. From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 11:23:38 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:23:38 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] "we'll force them to marry on the spot..." Message-ID: Ram Sene to marry off dating couples 5 Feb 2009, 0429 hrs IST, TNN BANGALORE: The fuss over Valentine's Day celebration by the self-styled moral police appears to be getting on Bangalore's nerves. Clearly unwilling to let themselves face a culture shock of sorts by spoilsports of the Sri Rama Sene who have threatened to ruin the celebrations, youth wings of many parties and student leaders vowed to keep the city safe and peaceful on February 14. As expected, on Wednesday afternoon, Rashtriya Hindu Sena chief Pramod Mutalik went into a huddle with his band of supporters and declared war on what he called "anti-Indian" practices. The Sene asked the government, heads of educational institutions and the police to discourage this "Christian practice of celebrating Valentine's Day''. Asked what the Sene would do if the government fails to heed to their demand, Mutalik said: "That question would arise only after government or police fails to stall the Valentine's Day celebrations.'' Those guys and girls exhibiting public display of affection on Valentine's Day, beware. At a meeting on Wednesday, chaired by Sri Rama Sene leader Pramod Mutalik, Sene decided to arrange marriage between dating couples. For that, it has formed five teams. They will roam around Bangalore with a video camera and turmeric stub. If they find young couples dating, they will force them to wed on the spot. "The couples will be taken to a sub-registrar's office to solemnise the marriage,'' T S Vasanth Kumar Bhavani, Sene's Bangalore city president, told TOI. Progressive voices said they would take on the Sene and not allow them to intimidate students. Who are these people to decide what others should do, they asked. On its part, the ruling BJP said though Valentine's Day was not our culture, it would not oppose it. The government did not seem to have any new plan of action to counter Sene's threat. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Ram_Sene_to_marry_off_dating_couples/articleshow/4078475.cms From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 11:29:15 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:29:15 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] 15 arrests against Islamic terrorism in Barcelona Message-ID: <6353c690902042159l59c8b47yb9fdcc40dcf488e6@mail.gmail.com> Here you go again.. (Pakistan is the capital of Global Islamic Terrorism) 15 arrests against Islamic terrorism in Barcelona Link - http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_19888.shtml The operation continues open and more arrests are expected elsewhere. All those detained are reported to be Pakistani. Yet another operation against Islamic terrorism has taken place in Barcelona. At least 15 people, allegedly linked to a network of document falsification were arrested in Calle Peu de la Creu, in the Raval area of the city, overnight as part of an operation which is reported to have extended to other cities in the country, including Valencia. The arrests were made by the National Police in the early hours of Tuesday, and the operation remains open. It was ordered by National Court judge Grande-Marlaska. Those arrested are all thought to be Pakistani and they are accused of supplying false passports to Al Quaeda members. From siddharth.narrain at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 12:08:44 2009 From: siddharth.narrain at gmail.com (siddharth narrain) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:08:44 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] a kiss is just a kiss. or is it? In-Reply-To: References: <20090204150257.ajs46nuiowkk0g4w@www.sms.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: <1773a06d0902042238x29866133w8f1439e927049c23@mail.gmail.com> That was an incredible read lawrence, Here's the order of Justice Muralidhar of the Delhi High Court in this case, IN THE HIGH COURT OF DELHI AT NEW DELHI 64. CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 RAHUL MOOKERJI and ANR. ..... Petitioner Through: Mr. Trideep pais and Ms. Naomi Chandra, Advocates. versus STATE THR. N.C.T. OF DELHI and ANR. ..... Respondents Through: Mr. Pawan Behl, APP. CORAM: HON'BLE DR. JUSTICE S.MURALIDHAR O R D E R 02.02.2009 Crl.M.A.No.1073 of 2009 Exemption allowed subject to all just exceptions. The application is disposed of. CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 and CRL.M.A. No. 1072 of 2009 (stay) 1. The facts brought to the notice of this Court by way of the present petition which seeks the quashing of proceedings arising out of FIR No. 581 of 2009 under Section 294/34 IPC are rather troubling. The Petitioners are a young couple, aged 28 and 23 years, who solemnized their marriage on 4th September 2008 at the Arya Samaj Mandir, Jamuna Bazar, Delhi apparently without the knowledge of their respective parents. They sought the services CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 1/4 of a lawyer to get their marriage registered under the Hindu Marriage Act, 1955. The lawyer asked them to come to the Dwarka Court Complex on 18th September 2008 apparently to get some paper work done in regard to the registration of their marriage. While they were waiting under the Metro Station near the court complex at around 3 pm in the afternoon, an Assistant Sub-Inspector (?ASI?) of Police Vidyadhar Singh (No. D/3563 PIS No. 16960047) attached to the Police Station Dwarka along with a constable Roshan Lal (No. 1314/SW) accosted them and allegedly told them that he knew what they were up to. According to the FIR which was registered at the instance of the Vidhyadhar Singh, he found the two Petitioners ?sitting in an objectionable position near Metro Pillar No.1140 and were kissing each other. As a result of which the passersby were feeling bad.? (This is the English translation of the FIR which was registered in Hindi which corresponds to these words). 2. The FIR records that on enquiry the ASI found that Petitioner No.2 is the wife of Petitioner No.1 residing at the same address. Learned counsel for the Petitioners clarifies that in the complaint made to the Bar Council of India and to the Commissioner of Police although the addresses of the CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 2/4 parties are shown as being in Greater Kailash, which is the permanent address of Petitioner No.1, this has been done for the sake of convenience. Since this was a love marriage without the knowledge of their respective parents, the address of Petitioner No.2 continues to be shown as being in Gurgaon. 3. What is striking is that despite the SI finding on enquiry that the two Petitioners were husband and wife living in the same place, he thought it fit to go ahead and register an FIR for an offence under Sections 294 read with 34 IPC. Although the FIR refers to ?passers by? being annoyed not a single name of any ?passer by? is found mentioned. Learned counsel for the Petitioners adds that the so-called investigation of the FIR has resulted in a charge sheet being filed on 30th January 2009 which does not refer to a single statement of any passer by recorded under Section 161 CrPC. To say the least, the FIR even when taken on its face value, does not make out a case for the offence under Section 294 read with 34 IPC. It is inconceivable how, even if one were to take what is stated in the FIR to be true, the expression of love by a young married couple, in the manner indicated in the FIR, would attract the offence of ?obscenity? and trigger the coercive process of the law. CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 3/4 4. Notice. 5. Mr. Behl, learned APP for the State accepts notice. 6. The trial court record be produced before the next date of hearing. 7. Mr. Behl further states that he will also take specific instructions on the action taken on the complaint made on 27th October 2008 by the Petitioners to the Commissioner of Police which appears to have been received in the Office of the Commissioner of Police on that day itself by Ms. Shalini Singh, DCP, S/W. 8. There will be a stay of further proceedings arising out of FIR No. 581 of 2008 till further orders. 9. List on 25th February 2009. 10. Order dasti. S.MURALIDHAR, J FEBRUARY 02, 2009 dn CRL.M.C. 283 of 2009 page 4/4 On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 10:41 AM, Lawrence Liang wrote: > Hi all > > Apologies for a long post, but hope it is of some interest to those of us > invested in the physical and smbolic acts of kissing, as well as of the > law. > > I think given the current atmosphere of moralpolicing, this is a very > welcome order, (the judge begins by acknowledging the troubling nature of a > case like this being brought t cout, and ends by saying that it is > inconceiveable how an expression of love, albeit between a married couple, > could be obscene) > > I think the question of whether it is radical or not is a misdirected one. > It instead might be more useful to use the order as a way of thinking about > the relationshiop of law to diverse states of being, of emotional > expression > and the limits of the law. > > > The question is not whether it is a radical act or not, rather it may be > understood in terms of how is that the law comes to judge a kiss, and in > doing so, what conceptions of the kiss does it evoke: Does it have a rich > understanding of the kiss or a poor one? If the entire issue is indeed > decided on the basis of the appropriate space of intimacy, whether it > should > be conducted publicly or privately, then where do we turn to even > understand > the Laws of intimacy? If the kiss is the object of objection, then what are > the ways in which we deal with this object? > > For instance do we deal with it, on its own terms ( a good kiss v, a bad > one, a real kiss v. a fake one) or do we have to constantly mobilize other > resources (Public v. private, married v. non married?) If kissing in > public > is against the idea of Indian culture, what are the sources beyond some > general invocation of Indian culture that is being relied on? Because given > the publicness of our erotic temples, surely it cant be the case that > public > display of erotic affection is a civilizational anomaly. > > > > I would like to draw your attention to a marvelous article which addresses > many of these questions. > > > > *Peter Goodrich, The Laws of Love: Literature, History and the Regulation > of > kissing: 24 N.Y.U Rev. L & Soc. Change, 183(1998)* > > > > For the benefit of those who may not have access to the article, I am > summarizing and extracting from the article which opens out exciting ways > in which we can think of the relationship between the kiss and the law. > > > > Goodrich argues that the while the law is often called upon to address the > appropriateness of intimate erotic acts occurring in public and > quasi-public > spaces, we must acknowledge that the lawyers are also not, by any training > or special knowledge the best legislators of kissing. As a result, when > such > disputes do arise, the consequences are that the results that emerge are > usually couched in negative terms. Thus certain forms of affection are > banned from public spaces; The ability to determine these matters suggest > that the law has a theory of the role of eros and intimacy in making of a > public world; > > > > But if the law is a specific body of knowledge that derives its authority > over the world through memory ( as enshrined as precedent), then the > question is where do such precedents lie? > > > > Goodrich argues that the common law may not be the best site for > understanding the kiss, but it is not an act whose regulation is beyond > comprehension or even historical evidence. > > > > Goodrich then lays out a fascinating history of the regulation of kissing, > particularly as it developed in the history of Christianity, and then in > medieval Europe in the courts of love and literature. > > > > According to him, Christianity, which was a religion of the 'logos' or word > and connected Truth with the "sermo humilis" and the pentecostal speaking > in > > tongues, and knowledge came from the lips. On of the early Christian > commentaries speaking on the Song of Songs, says that the kiss was the > principal form of salvation in that it was through the kiss of knowledge > that the word would be passed from Christ to his followers. Thus, when the > Song of Songs famously importunes "[l]et him kiss me with the kisses of his > Mouth", it is illumination of the soul, divine grace, for which the > supplicant pleads." > > > > The kiss was thus the union of the word and the soul. In the exchange of > breath that takes place in kissing, two souls would intermingle and unite. > The insufflation of the kiss was an inhalation of knowledge, and > constituted > an exchange that was spiritual rather than sexual, and institutional rather > than carnal. Si in early Christianity, the kiss aided in the development > and > intensification of community which leads the faithful eventually to a > knowledge of God. > > > > Goodrich then traces the rather elaborate doctrinal history that > accompanies > this idea of the sacred character of the kiss. He shows us of rinstance a > taxonomy of kissing which ranges from the osculum pads, or kiss of > brotherhood, which was a physical kiss, a kiss on the mouth, but one which > was exchanged as a sign of truth and of peace. Then you have the spiritual > kiss, a kiss that took place not by virtue of the meeting of mouth or > contact of lips but by the joining of the affections of the mind, and it > was > this kiss that enabled believers to mingle and unite in the single body of > the Church. Finally, the highest level of the kiss, the intellectual > embrace, was in a sense the prolongation of the spiritual kiss. A spiritual > kiss of sufficient intensity and duration would transcend the bodies of > those that embraced and rather than being the friend or Christian brother > that was kissed and being kissed it was now Christ who was kissed and being > kissed through the > > creature or lips of the believer. > > > > > > > > But here comes the catch, stages of the Christian kiss, could be mimicked > by > the unfaithful and so lead not to salvation or knowledge but to a corporeal > desire marked by ignorance and deceit. The false kiss treated the lips of > the other not as the sign of, and means of access to, an invisible grace, > but rather as an end in > > themselves, as sensual presence and the means of a purely carnal embrace. > > the sin of idolatry was depicted as being that of allowing sight to > terminate upon the physical representation or plastic form of faith, so too > the plain kiss which when used by non believers, it became a false kiss, > which ended its quest for satisfaction upon the body of the > subject kissed. The face of the other here became a false image, an idol > upon which desire in the form of the kiss both doted and fed. > > > > > > Goodrich's interest in laying out he history of the regulation of kissing > as > it emerges in Christianity is also to understand the development of the > language from where kisses are understood, and what kind of inheritances, > the modern legal system may have drawn from in their understanding of the > regulation of amorous activities. > > > > > > > > He says > > > > *"In contemporary and more pluralistic doctrinal contexts, the specific > resonances of impurity, heresy, or paganism, attached to false kisses is > less > important than the language and classificatory schemata through which the > art and practice of kissing was made accessible and available to some > species of judgment. This early law on kissing had a remarkable and > peculiarly > radical theoretical perspicuity. Specifically, it recognized and > acknowledged an erotic charge, a substrate of desire or indeed libidinal > economy,' that not simply underpinned but literally constituted community. > Desire pervaded the social, and eros, as motive or as expression, was > acknowledged to be present in all institutional relationships as a > dimension > not only of power but of speech as such. The importance of the early law > of kissing thus lies primarily in its ability to acknowledge and address > the > role of desire in all forms of social contact or institutional intercourse. > So > too, rather than attempting to deny or exclude public expressions of erotic > desire, the doctrine of kissing attempted rather to understand and map an > art and practice of embrace that both acknowledged the pervasive value of > desire and limited inappropriate forms of its expression through a code, an > epistemic, of the relation of kissing to truth. Love, in other words, > required > expression, and this was recognized to be as true of the polity as of the > domestic sphere. It remains to point out that in the literary tradition of > the > courts of love, this insight into the relation between desire, community > and > knowledge, gains further and vivid elaboration. In kissing, in tasting the > other,124 we come to know them in their difference and in their desire, and > we come also to know what is possible, what lies in the future of our > love". > * > > > > Goodrich then goes on to examine the regulation of the kisses in courtly > love, in literature and in the fascinating courts of love. > > > > > > > > > > He writes of a mid-fifteenth century case reported in Martial d'Auvergne, > Les Arréts D 'Amour, which was heard before the Court of Flowers, where a > woman complained that she had been amongst friends in a public garden when > her lover had happened to come upon her and had joined her. According to > her > complaint, he had come up beside her and "pretending to want to say > something private in her ear, he had lifted the hood of her cape and > suddenly had kissed her.""' > > > > Her complaint was that this kiss had embarrassed her in front of her > > friends. It was, at least in her argument, to be treated as if it had been > > stolen in public: it was larrecin publique or public larceny of a kiss. Her > > request to the Court was that in the future her lover should be forbidden > to > > approach her or touch her in public."' For his part, the impugned lover > > claimed that when he chanced upon his lover he took the opportunity to > > whisper declarations of love in her ear and while doing so had slipped. In > > consequence his lips had brushed against her ear and her cheek. This could > > hardly, in his view, be regarded as a kiss."' > > > > Upon deliberation the Court held that the complaint was badly made. > > It could not be public theft of a kiss for a lover to surprise his beloved > with > > so innocent and amorous a declaration and act. A lover should not be > > embarrassed by a public kiss but should rather welcome the attention and > > the honesty of the expression. It was ordered that when the couple next > > met in public the woman should kiss her lover openly and freely. > > > > In his commentary on that case, Benoit de Court argues that the laws > > of love had always recognized the finely marked differences between > different types of kiss. Thus a kiss between lovers in an open place was a > legitimate and desirable expression of affection, provided that the kiss > was > not > > overlong or too salacious. It was not theft, he concluded, publicly to kiss > a > > lover, "so long as the hands did not wander lasciviously, and so long as > > there was no biting of the lips." > > > > The kiss was thus held to belong quite properly within the public > > sphere, as also within the institution, and should not be hidden or furtive > > but rather declared and indulged. The domain of love, therefore, did not > > recognize arbitrary divisions between private and public, or between > intimacy and institution. The kiss belonged to an economy of desire that > both subtended and exceeded the public domain of secular or venal > interaction. > > > > Kissing was the usual form not only of entry into the domain of love but > more formally of sealing the agreement of love or alliance d'amour whereby > lovers committed themselves to each other and publically declared an > undying > allegiance to the cause and space of their mutual desire. > > > > Goodrich's argument is simply, that the questions of love are best judged > > according to laws of love. Simple, and indeed alliterative, though this > proposition might appear, its implications for legal thought are radical. > That love should have its laws means at the very least that the ailing > modern concept of a single jurisdiction and uniform agonistic procedure for > all legal cases should be abandoned explicitly. At its simplest, it does > not > make sense to litigate emotions as if they were proprietary benefits or > duties. Nor does it speak well of the legal enterprise to assume that a > substantive law that historically has ignored the emotions and left the > sphere of intimacy to the private realm, to the law of the father, is the > appropriate or only source of precedents for the development of the rules > that are to govern the expressions of desire in the public world. - > _________________________________________ > reader-list: an open discussion list on media and the city. > Critiques & Collaborations > To subscribe: send an email to reader-list-request at sarai.net with > subscribe in the subject header. > To unsubscribe: https://mail.sarai.net/mailman/listinfo/reader-list > List archive: <https://mail.sarai.net/pipermail/reader-list/> > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 16:37:03 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 03:07:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <352375.78338.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Javed   Your post was copied to me so I presume you were addressing me too.   To put things in perspective, my post on boycotting Pakistan, was in response to Zain's post on boycotting Israel.   You might have missed noticing it but my post was almost a copy of Zain's post with Israel being replaced by Pakistan and a few other changes.   The point I was trying to make was that Indians, if they have to boycott anyone should be talking about boycotting Pakistan much before any thoughts of boycotting Israel. Reason is simple that Pakistan has sought to and has hurt India wheras that cannot be said about Israel. India has no reason for boycotting Israel.   If one has to call for a boycott by India of Israel because of a judgement of Israel's actions and policies (outside the Indian theatre), then there are countries which are far more guilty judged by those very standards by which Israel would be judged. The USA is a prime and foremost example of such a country. USA in fact is worse (for an Indian) because the policies and actions of USA have adversely impacted India too. Why do we not see a 'boycott USA' call from those in India (and in fact elsewhere in the world too) who are quick to give a 'boycott Israel' call?   I hope you now realise that my 'boycott Pakistan' call was an amused response to Zain.   Do I believe that Pakistan should be boycotted by India? I am not sure about that at as far as the far ranging implications of a 'boycott' are concerned.   Pakistan is hardly dependant on India for anything at all. From that perspective India boycotting Pakistan would be a pompous stand of exaggerated self-importance by India. Pressure is meaningful only when the one pressured has only the choice of 'yield or break'.   But, I would not want Pakistan to benefit from India in any way until Pakistan stops interfering into India. Cricketing ties are one such sphere.   Yet I am not too sure whether those who share common values based on mutual respect and mutual acceptance should be barred from interacting. These might be sportsmen, artists, artistes, litterateurs, academicians, students etc   These do not include those who have made a profession of being "Peace Activists". Such people, especially on the Indian side mock by their words and actions the hurts suffered by India that have been caused by Pakistan. They take the focus away from the seriousness of issues and not only harm India but to my mind harm Pakistan too. They play into the hands of the sinister elements in Pakistan who love them and herald them; those very elements who are not only seeking to destroy India but ironically are destroying Pakistan too.    There are two groupings in India who, in my opinion would be best suited to talk with and talk to Pakistan and the Pakistanis.   One is the Govt Of India (GOI) who has all these past decades either allowed Pakistan to 'get away with it' or been delusional that Pakistan has been sincere and well meaning in the "Peace" noises it has been making. GOI needs to tell Pakistan "Listen guys. We have been enemies for long and we thought we could be friendlier now. But we cannot have these Confidence Building Measures (CBMs) while you continue to harm us. This duplicity is not acceptable any more. Either you stop being hypocritical or let us accept each other and declare each other as enemies and act accordingly"   The other grouping that needs to do some intensive public plainspeaking to Pakistan and Pakistanis is the Indian Muslims. That is another topic altogether but Pakistan and Pakistanis need to be told that they are not only making life hell for the Indian Muslims but also for Muslims all over the world and even in Pakistan. That they are ruining Islam by propagating or allowing propagation of convoluted ideas in the name of Islam. That they are destroying Islam.     You have hyperventilated a sarcastic whine about 'ejecting ..... into outer space', Pakistan, Afghanistan, Osama, Iran. Why you have done it only you would know. Only Pakistan was being spoken about. Why are you being so sensitive about it and injecting irrational conclusions of what was stated? Excuse my questions. Are you a Pakistani? Are you a Muslim? Do you subscribe to 'every Muslim is a citizen of the Islamic temporal domain that has primacy over nationality' ? Why else would you club together Pakistan, Afghanistan, Osama, Iran.     Kshmendra   --- On Thu, 2/5/09, M Javed wrote: From: M Javed Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? To: "Lalit Ambardar" Cc: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "reader-list at sarai.net" , zainrahimtula1 at googlemail.com Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 11:11 AM How does one boycott Pakistan? Haven't we already done that by not playing cricket with them. But interestingly, while we boycott Pakistani cricket team because of the Mumbai terror, we play cricket with Sri Lankans who are killing so many Tamils in Sri Lanka. Why can't we boycott them as well. (and interestingly, Sri Lanka has decided to play cricket with Pakistan any way). I think the only way to fully boycott Pakistan is to simply eject the entire landmass of that country from the planet earth and send it spiralling into outer space - that's the only way the terrorism can be solved. Then the empty space will be filled with the water from the Arabian sea and it may actually solve the problem of global warming. Maybe we can tag along Afghanistan too with (Osama will certainly leave earth then) and send them to outer space - they will also meet the Iranians there (who have just sent their satellite). Good way to solve many problems in one go. On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 1:15 AM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > > You could only be sure of a mute response. > > In case of Pakistan you are expected to maintain the 'dine & dance' bonhomie even while India conitinues to bleed at the hands of the Pakistan sponsored pan Islamists. > > One can only suspect the empathy being shown for the poor Palestinians since the bloody ethnic cleansing by the Pakistan loyal Kashmiri jihadis, of Kashmiri Hindu Pandits- co citizens of the most on this forum never evoked any such similar sentiment. > > On the contrary the perpetrators like Yassin Mallik who at the behest of his Pakistani masters along with his other jihadi cohorts brought death & destruction to our own Kashmir- in our own backyard, are being unashamedly eulogized on this forum. > Regards all > LA From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Feb 5 17:12:06 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:42:06 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] my view on cellular silent day on 30/01/09 by Ranjan Kamath In-Reply-To: <002401c9868b$eda724a0$0201a8c0@limo> References: <006701c98369$3b8cae90$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40901310944i5dfd0c1cpb9da416014037dab@mail.gmail.com> <005901c985c0$1e425b10$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030231p62cc4e76t2610d577e6ab39a@mail.gmail.com> <000901c985ef$0ff34950$0201a8c0@limo> <65be9bf40902030348k5f16002by866cd3ba21a41081@mail.gmail.com> <002401c9868b$eda724a0$0201a8c0@limo> Message-ID: <65be9bf40902050342m6e45e30cs16694b75cdd28a29@mail.gmail.com> Dear Bipin, You are absolutely right that, ' Modi mask, chhapan ki chhati is one type of publicity gimmick and nothing to do with Hindutva', I think it has got to do a lot with Modittva. In this regard can one not argue that by projecting himself as over and above the ideology of a political party or foregrounding himself over any other issue such as development or governance, Modi in this regard managed to occupy more space where nothing else matters. I paste for your benefit an excerpt from an article written by Swapan Dasgupta in Tehelka on various campaign strategies used by Arun Jaitely who was also the BJP prabhari for Gujarat- Jaitley faced another problem in Gujarat. A section of the RSS and Modi's detractors within the party were wary of any campaign which focussed on the iconic chief minister. Jaitley overruled these objections brusquely and insisted that the entire campaign be centred on Modi. His logic was simple: "Modi's personal popularity was greater than that of the BJP". In his view, in a Congress versus BJP fight, both sides were equal; in a Congress versus Modi fight, the winner was pre-determined. http://www.tehelka.com/story_main39.asp?filename=Ne070608master_ceremonies.asp If Modi was as efficient as an administrator as he claimed he was, then where was the need for any gimickry or iconoclasm? Did voters not elect the quiet MP CM Shivraj Singh Chauhan again and did the incumbent CM, not invite Mr. Modi during election time with a request to stay away from MP? Why was there no gimickry, no iconoclasm, no mass murder, no rapes. no need for any paranoia, or any chappan ki chatti during MP elections? The election was fought and won on development issues was it not? If Modi is such an iconic figure then where was the need for FCI or the National Health Survey and other agencis to suggest that more than three crore gujaraties are suffering from malnutrition, anemia or low body mass index? Regards Taha From sen.gargi at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 17:16:41 2009 From: sen.gargi at gmail.com (Gargi Sen) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 17:16:41 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Under Construction@ the Calcutta Book Fair Message-ID: Dear all, As distributors of independent films we have long felt that this genre of films is closer to literature and books rather than to commercial cinema. With the help of Left Word Books we have taken the very first steps to make our films available at Book Fairs to explore another avenue for popularising and disseminating the very significant films that Under Construction distributes. And now we are going to be at the celebrated Kolkata Boi Mela, or the Calcutta Book Fair. The Calcutta Book Fair, an annual winter affair, is unique as its primarily for the general public rather than whole-sale distributors. It is the world's largest non-trade book fair, Asia's largest book fair and the world's third largest annual fair after the Frankfurt and the London Book Fairs. But it is the most attended book fair in the world. Under Construction is going to the present at the LeftWord Book's stall at the Calcutta Book Fair, from 28 January to 8 February 2009 that is located in Hall no 1, stall no 23. If you are in Calcutta in this period we look forward to meeting you there. Please also circulate this information to your network of friends and cinema lovers in Calcutta. For films we distribute please visit www.magiclanternfoundation.org and look under films for distribution. Gargi Sen From 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com Thu Feb 5 17:47:51 2009 From: 2tahamehmood at googlemail.com (Taha Mehmood) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:17:51 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] Identity Crisis Message-ID: <65be9bf40902050417l1ede215cw73811c8b05dc7242@mail.gmail.com> Dear all Bibek Debroy's piece pasted below cogently describes what ails 'identity' in India. He lists out three problems. Selected excerpts- First, there are geographical areas ostensibly illegal, such as urban slums involving encroachment. ...The second nuance is linked to informal work. Large chunks of India are in the informal workforce. Informality doesn't mean illegality. But it often means lack of legal identity, since this work is typically outside registration systems. Perhaps 450 million Indians are in this category and the number will be more if those presently outside the workforce (such as women) begin to enter, as female work participation rates rise. If not linked to place of residence, identity-proof is sometimes linked to place of work and we thus have a problem. Elsewhere, transitions from self-employment to wage-employment and rural to urban facilitated legal recognition through work-place. Developing countries with national identity systems have smaller populations. Or, to take the Chinese example, communism built in household registration systems.... ...The third nuance of legal identity is individual-based and given the above, becomes difficult to establish. This isn't a problem that plagues India alone. It is a problem that characterises much of South Asia and sub-Saharan Africa and some segments of Latin America and East Asia too.... Debroy lists other dimensions of identity quagmire- excerpts- First, there are multiple identity cards for different purposes and a card acceptable for one purpose is not accepted for another. Second, there is rampant bribery and corruption in issuing cards.... Third, counterfeit cards float around and those who are meant to check them for authenticity are negligent or lack necessary means. I think this instance again brings to forefront questions that we have been trying to think through on the reader-list. a) What is identity? b) Is the transfer of such a huge amount of money for MNIC just? c) How do we ensure that even if MNIC is delivered then the identity problem will be solved? Regards Taha http://www.indianexpress.com/news/identity-crises/419283/0 Bibek Debroy Posted: Feb 05, 2009 at 2321 hrs IST Identity crises When travelling abroad, one is used to hotels, offices and assorted other places asking for identification proof. That's true not only of developed countries, but developing ones too — 9/11 reinforced the trend. Until 26/11, that was rarely the case in India. Every Indian's aspiration is of becoming a VIP, whatever that expression means. Consequently, self-proclaimed VIPs resent the idea of being asked who they are. The world is supposed to know who they are. Post 26/11, this has changed and there is greater insistence and acceptance of identity-proof. For those with access to passports, driving licences and PAN cards, there is no problem. However, for the majority of Indians, especially those living in Bharat, there is a problem in establishing who you are, unless you possess voter cards and/or ration cards. There are three different nuances of the legal identity problem. First, there are geographical areas ostensibly illegal, such as urban slums involving encroachment. With Slumdog Millionaire in the news, Dharavi is one obvious instance. "So they live in illegal houses and use illegal electricity, drinking illegal water and watch illegal cable TV. They work in Dharavi's numerous illegal factories and illegal shops." That's a quote from Vikas Swarup's Q&A. Many proofs of identity are linked to place of residence. If residence is illegal, how does one establish legal identity? The second nuance is linked to informal work. Large chunks of India are in the informal workforce. Informality doesn't mean illegality. But it often means lack of legal identity, since this work is typically outside registration systems. Perhaps 450 million Indians are in this category and the number will be more if those presently outside the workforce (such as women) begin to enter, as female work participation rates rise. If not linked to place of residence, identity-proof is sometimes linked to place of work and we thus have a problem. Elsewhere, transitions from self-employment to wage-employment and rural to urban facilitated legal recognition through work-place. Developing countries with national identity systems have smaller populations. Or, to take the Chinese example, communism built in household registration systems. The third nuance of legal identity is individual-based and given the above, becomes difficult to establish. This isn't a problem that plagues India alone. It is a problem that characterises much of South Asia and sub-Saharan Africa and some segments of Latin America and East Asia too. There are several dimensions to the Indian problem. First, there are multiple identity cards for different purposes and a card acceptable for one purpose is not accepted for another. Second, there is rampant bribery and corruption in issuing cards. People who are entitled to them don't get them and those who shouldn't get them do, illegally. This has been documented ad nauseam for driving licences, BPL cards and Antyodaya, with the CAG having castigated several states. Third, counterfeit cards float around and those who are meant to check them for authenticity are negligent or lack necessary means. Identity cards don't only establish identity. They are also required for subsidised access to public services and positive discrimination, such as caste certificates. We should probably have solved the problem in the '60s, when Central and Centrally-sponsored schemes proliferated. But we didn't solve it then and wouldn't have bothered even now, had it not been for 26/11. Prior to that there was a multi-purpose national identity card (MNIC) pushed by the NDA in 2002, with the stated objective of curbing illegal migration from across the border, especially Bangladesh. It was ostensibly tried out in border districts in pilot mode, with Delhi, Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Goa and Puducherry thrown in. However, despite pilots being over by 2008, the UPA didn't seem very serious about MNIC, perhaps because electoral politics in some states encouraged issuance of electoral cards to those who weren't Indians. 26/11 changed this and there have been Government statements that after the 2011 Census, every Indian will have an MNIC, probably by 2015. The database will therefore be Census-driven. Does that automatically ensure every MNIC is genuine? And despite the euphoria about biometry, will agencies possess authentication technology? Will MNIC also be used to target public services and positive discrimination? There is possibly some utility in splicing NREGA and Sarva Shiksha Abhiyan (SSA) into the Census database. The advantage of the former is that there is an explicit provision of mandatory social audits by Gram Sabha to check veracity. In most states, Gram Sabha audits haven't worked well. However, NREGA also incorporates provisions on right to information, public disclosure and third-party audits. These have worked much better —what better evidence than murder of NREGA activists in Jharkhand? As of now, NREGA only covers households self-identified as poor. But with that as base data, one should be able to create a database of adults in rural India, at least those in working-age groups. Similarly, school enrolment has shot up dramatically, though that doesn't mean we have solved the problem of drop-outs and inadequate retention. Largely because of mid-day meals, and not core SSA, there are probably only around five million children who are never enrolled in primary school, mostly children of migrants. Stated differently, why don't the poor opt for existing I-card systems? Apart from the lack of information, each existing I-card is issued by a monopoly state provider, engendering corruption and high transaction costs. Offering choice and multiple channels helps eliminate monopoly and reduce corruption. In a way, NREGA offered choice by roping in panchayats and third-party audits, and civil society also helped curb excesses and discretion associated with monopoly. There is thus a check on the Census database. More importantly, if the splicing isn't done, home ministry-driven MNIC will only be used for establishing identity and will primarily be for security. That's an important step. But we still won't have a single identity card, and identity requirements for subsidised public delivery of services and positive discrimination will remain. That shouldn't be the end-goal. Let's not forget that, contrary to what the Administrative Reforms Commission recommended in its second report, NREGA payments are compulsorily made through bank and post office savings accounts, not in cash. If there are multiple good ideas, let's marry them. The writer is a Delhi-based economist xpress at expressindia.com From javedmasoo at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 18:12:05 2009 From: javedmasoo at gmail.com (M Javed) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 18:12:05 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? In-Reply-To: <352375.78338.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> References: <352375.78338.qm@web57205.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Kshmendra First of all, does a public call to "boycott" any country ever yield any results? Probably only thing that works is an economic sanctions put on countries (such as what was done on South Africa or Iraq once). Secondly, if you say America needs to by boycotted: yes, even before Israel, millions of people all over the world tried to boycott America a number of times, especially before and during the Iraq war (2003) - even in places like Germany and France, people rejected American goods (although not sure how much it affected the US economy). So, we have a long history of boycotting. But we also know that not every American is responsible for what the US administration does to the world. So what is the fault of an ordinary US citizen? The same may apply to Pakistan. Yes we need to boycott Pakistan, but I asked HOW? What exactly do we do to boycott Pakistan? Do we have any of their products coming into India which we can block? If a Pakistani ailing person wants to come to India to get treated in our hospital, do we deny them entry? Do we block their TV channels? But even more important is my question: How to you define Pakistan which you wish to boycott? Are we looking at Pakistan as a big monolithic entity the whole of which is responsible for the terrorist attacks - its each and every citizen, all govt. officials, Pakistani culture, music, its trees, rivers, birds, what all do we include to boycott? If you really think it is some kind of monolithic entity which is responsible for India's plight, then what is wrong with my suggestion that we eject the entire landmass into space - there would not remain even the seeds and fertile land to cultivate the hate against India. And if you think that even if there are one per cent people in Pakistan who want peace with India, we should boycott them as well, then what more can I say. But I would still like to know how would that help the situation. Javed On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Kshmendra Kaul wrote: > Dear Javed > > Your post was copied to me so I presume you were addressing me too. > > To put things in perspective, my post on boycotting Pakistan, was in > response to Zain's post on boycotting Israel. > > You might have missed noticing it but my post was almost a copy of Zain's > post with Israel being replaced by Pakistan and a few other changes. > > The point I was trying to make was that Indians, if they have to boycott > anyone should be talking about boycotting Pakistan much before any thoughts > of boycotting Israel. Reason is simple that Pakistan has sought to and has > hurt India wheras that cannot be said about Israel. India has no reason for > boycotting Israel. > > If one has to call for a boycott by India of Israel because of a judgement > of Israel's actions and policies (outside the Indian theatre), then there > are countries which are far more guilty judged by those very standards by > which Israel would be judged. The USA is a prime and foremost example of > such a country. USA in fact is worse (for an Indian) because the policies > and actions of USA have adversely impacted India too. Why do we not see a > 'boycott USA' call from those in India (and in fact elsewhere in the world > too) who are quick to give a 'boycott Israel' call? > > I hope you now realise that my 'boycott Pakistan' call was an amused > response to Zain. > > Do I believe that Pakistan should be boycotted by India? I am not sure about > that at as far as the far ranging implications of a 'boycott' are concerned. > > Pakistan is hardly dependant on India for anything at all. From that > perspective India boycotting Pakistan would be a pompous stand of > exaggerated self-importance by India. Pressure is meaningful only when the > one pressured has only the choice of 'yield or break'. > > But, I would not want Pakistan to benefit from India in any way until > Pakistan stops interfering into India. Cricketing ties are one such sphere. > > Yet I am not too sure whether those who share common values based on mutual > respect and mutual acceptance should be barred from interacting. These might > be sportsmen, artists, artistes, litterateurs, academicians, students etc > > These do not include those who have made a profession of being "Peace > Activists". Such people, especially on the Indian side mock by their words > and actions the hurts suffered by India that have been caused by Pakistan. > They take the focus away from the seriousness of issues and not only harm > India but to my mind harm Pakistan too. They play into the hands of the > sinister elements in Pakistan who love them and herald them; those very > elements who are not only seeking to destroy India but ironically are > destroying Pakistan too. > > There are two groupings in India who, in my opinion would be best suited to > talk with and talk to Pakistan and the Pakistanis. > > One is the Govt Of India (GOI) who has all these past decades either allowed > Pakistan to 'get away with it' or been delusional that Pakistan has been > sincere and well meaning in the "Peace" noises it has been making. GOI needs > to tell Pakistan "Listen guys. We have been enemies for long and we thought > we could be friendlier now. But we cannot have these Confidence Building > Measures (CBMs) while you continue to harm us. This duplicity is not > acceptable any more. Either you stop being hypocritical or let us accept > each other and declare each other as enemies and act accordingly" > > The other grouping that needs to do some intensive public plainspeaking to > Pakistan and Pakistanis is the Indian Muslims. That is another topic > altogether but Pakistan and Pakistanis need to be told that they are not > only making life hell for the Indian Muslims but also for Muslims all over > the world and even in Pakistan. That they are ruining Islam by propagating > or allowing propagation of convoluted ideas in the name of Islam. That they > are destroying Islam. > > You have hyperventilated a sarcastic whine about 'ejecting ..... into outer > space', Pakistan, Afghanistan, Osama, Iran. Why you have done it only you > would know. Only Pakistan was being spoken about. Why are you being so > sensitive about it and injecting irrational conclusions of what was stated? > Excuse my questions. Are you a Pakistani? Are you a Muslim? Do you subscribe > to 'every Muslim is a citizen of the Islamic temporal domain that has > primacy over nationality' ? Why else would you club together Pakistan, > Afghanistan, Osama, Iran. > > > Kshmendra > > --- On Thu, 2/5/09, M Javed wrote: > > From: M Javed > Subject: Re: [Reader-list] Is anyone thinking about boycotting Pakistan? > To: "Lalit Ambardar" > Cc: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com, "reader-list at sarai.net" > , zainrahimtula1 at googlemail.com > Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 11:11 AM > > How does one boycott Pakistan? Haven't we already done that by not > playing cricket with them. But interestingly, while we boycott > Pakistani cricket team because of the Mumbai terror, we play cricket > with Sri Lankans who are killing so many Tamils in Sri Lanka. Why > can't we boycott them as well. (and interestingly, Sri Lanka has > decided to play cricket with Pakistan any way). > > I think the only way to fully boycott Pakistan is to simply eject the > entire landmass of that country from the planet earth and send it > spiralling into outer space - that's the only way the terrorism can be > solved. Then the empty space will be filled with the water from the > Arabian sea and it may actually solve the problem of global warming. > Maybe we can tag along Afghanistan too with (Osama will certainly > leave earth then) and send them to outer space - they will also meet > the Iranians there (who have just sent their satellite). Good way to > solve many problems in one go. > > > > On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 1:15 AM, Lalit Ambardar > wrote: >> >> You could only be sure of a mute response. >> >> In case of Pakistan you are expected to maintain the 'dine & > dance' bonhomie even while India conitinues to bleed at the hands of the > Pakistan sponsored pan Islamists. >> >> One can only suspect the empathy being shown for the poor Palestinians > since the bloody ethnic cleansing by the Pakistan loyal Kashmiri jihadis, of > Kashmiri Hindu Pandits- co citizens of the most on this forum never evoked > any > such similar sentiment. >> >> On the contrary the perpetrators like Yassin Mallik who at the behest of > his Pakistani masters along with his other jihadi cohorts brought death & > destruction to our own Kashmir- in our own backyard, are being unashamedly > eulogized on this forum. >> Regards all >> LA > > From kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com Thu Feb 5 18:15:13 2009 From: kshmendra2005 at yahoo.com (Kshmendra Kaul) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 04:45:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <958828.88500.qm@web57204.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Dear Sandeep   I would not agree with you.   The Jihadi Hindus are as much the scum of this earth as the Jihadi Muslims or Jihadi Christians or Jihadi Sikhs or Jihadi Jews or Jihadi Atheists or Jihadi Agnostics or Jihadi Capitalists or Jihadi Communists or whoever. The actions of one cannot be used as an excuse for similar actions by the other.   In my opinion, an individual or a grouping of individuals has the right to make a Value Judgement for themselves, but no one has the right to impose that Value Judgement on others or become Executioner especially in environments where instutionalised avenues are available to state your case, argue it and alter Common Consent Value Judgements.   Kshmendra   --- On Wed, 2/4/09, Sandeep wrote: From: Sandeep Subject: [Reader-list] Tourist heaven turns into valley of fear To: "sa" Date: Wednesday, February 4, 2009, 8:04 PM Kasjmendra Kaul wrote-- What Pakistan and Pakistanis and their supporters in Kashmir did to Kashmir, is now being done in Swat, Pakistan by it's own Pakistanis. and then there is link about SWAT. and i totally agree with that but what about extending the logic to karnataka one can say jihadi hindus r learning fast from their jihadi brethen across the border. Ram Sena now targets women's attire Vicky Nanjappa in Bengaluru http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/feb/04ram-sena-now-targets-womens-attire.htm February 04, 2009 19:18 IST The Shri Ram Sena is sticking to its guns that it will not permit Valentine's Day celebrations and also warning that they will keep a watch on the kind of clothes women wear. After meeting with other activists of the Sena in Bengaluru [Images], its founder Pramod Muthalik [Images] said it was decided that the fight to safeguard the Indian culture would go on and there is no going back on this point. The Sena members unanimously decided to oppose Valentine's Day. Muthalik however added that their protests would be peaceful. A memorandum would be submitted to the chief minister and the Governor regarding this and they would be urged to help curb the celebration of Valentine's Day, which the Sena maintained is against Indian culture and should be prevented at any cost. Muthalik also said: "I have no problem with the manner in which a girl dresses up as long as it adheres to Indian culture. Skimpily clad women will not be tolerated and we would warn such girls. However at no point of time will we take the law into our hands." Meanwhile the Bangalore police is gearing to face any eventuality on February 14. Police sources say that they are fully prepared and that the day will be peaceful and the citizens will be safe From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 21:17:01 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 21:17:01 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Aditya After reading your mail, I must certainly respond to certain points raised in your mail. The first point is that of retribution. You have said that Yasin Malik 'should know how it feels when bullet passes through his empty skull!' . This is highly atrocious according to me, as atrocious as the migration of Kashmiri Pandits was. While I don't deny that the Pandits didn't deserve to be punished for being Indians, it doesn't mean that if Yasin Malik first organized violence, then retributive action must be pursued against him. This already speaks of your own mentality. Mind you. It's not as if I don't feel retributive at all; there are times when I feel that all BJP supporters should be cut down to pieces, and like they organized Gujarat, all their supporters should be completely burnt in an organized manner, so that they are never there back in the society. However, I do realize, though somewhat late (fortunately this violent streak in me never materializes), that this is not the way to go about solving such problems. I don't agree with BJP, and those who follow it ideologically, but they are also human beings and deserve dignity and right to life as much as I do. But you seem to have completely forgotten that. As much as you deserve dignity of life and right to life, Yasin Malik also deserves it. And if you think that he is an animal, don't forget that animals also have rights in today's times(PETA is one of the organizations fighting for animals' rights). Secondly, doesn't a criminal deserve the chance to improve back on what he did, and become a better human being? According to what I have heard, Yasin Malik, was sentenced to jail in 1994-94, during which he had read 'My Experiments With Truth' , the autobiography of Mahatma Gandhi, and after reading it, asked JKLF, his own organization to lay down arms. Since then, he has repeatedly asked for stopping of all violence, and also repeatedly stated that Kashmiri Pandits should also be a part of 'azad' Kashmir. Moreover, he has stated that violence doesn't lead to any solution; it leads only to more violence. Now, coming back to your point. Thirdly, if Yasin Malik is responsible for the rapes and killings in the Valley to begin with, which led to the exodus of the Pandits on a large scale, there are cases pending against him. Get those cases tried quickly, put pressure on the Indian Union, and get him convicted if you have evidence to back your claim, instead of first indulging in PR-exercise on sarai list, and following the tried and tested policy of Bush and Modi, which is 'repeat a thing 1000 times, and it becomes the truth'. If Malik is responsible for all this, can't you get him sentenced in any case? Or is only repeating perceptions and spreading them within your control, and getting him tried and convicted beyond your control? Fourthly. From the way I have seen, it seems that Kashmiri Pandits always want to put themselves up as victims to earn sympathies and brownie points all the time. I have never seen these kind of comments from other kinds of victims or refugees come up, be it Nandigram and Singur people who suffered due to the machinisations of the Left Front Govt. of Bengal, nor be the tribals who suffer in various states right from policies of development which are flawed to the Salwa Judums and others; nor have I seen Muslims complaining themselves so much about the conditions in which they are living post-2002 riots. Who says Pandits haven't suffered? I dont' say that. And neither does anyone on this list say that? But it seems that Pandits have decided that any solution on Kashmir should only and only take them into account. As if Pandits only are humans, and all the Kashmiri Muslims are inhumans. So today they want Panun Kashmir, and it must be given to them on a platter, disregarding the fact that a majority of population in Kashmir don't want that. Similarly, what they want is justified, and if somebody has a view contrary to that, he/she is either an anti-national or a terrorist. Why, may I know that? I would suggest Pandits, to stop acting as citizens, and first of all act as human beings. That would be better. Citizenship is an invention of history, but human beings are not. At least learn humanity first. Try to understand that even your 'opponents' in this case are human beings, and try to inculcate teachings of your own religion (Hinduism) before propagating any kind of violence against them. It doesn't mean you dont' ask for justice. It means that you don't ask for retributive action against them. Regards Rakesh From kauladityaraj at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 22:12:25 2009 From: kauladityaraj at gmail.com (Aditya Raj Kaul) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 22:12:25 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6353c690902050842v54ffae3sdbc9a54615562019@mail.gmail.com> Dear Rakesh, I don't think I should comment much on your wikipedia knowledge on Kashmir, Kashmiri Pandits and Islamic Terrorist Yasin Malik. Not all written on such sources is true, my friend. Anyways, Just for your information sake; the God of Separatists Yasin Malik has several cases pending against him in TADA and other courts; mostly in J&K. Two of them being of Rubiya Sayeed Kidnapping and another of killing 4 IAF unarmed persons. He enjoys freedom due to the mercy of Indian Government and as well his good lobby of 'well-connected' people in New Delhi. I didn't raise anything about BJP here. To us the Kashmiri Pandits; both politicians and leaders towards the right or even to the left have been same. We have just seen lip service from them. Here I responded to a mail which portrayed a killer as a leader; which cannot be accepted. To Singur there were groups who stood up, to Gujarat there were again leaders and NGOs who worked, to Kashmiri Muslims there are several NGOs and other well connected people campaigning hard; but to us the Kashmiri Pandits and to our forced exodus...the world remained silent. You may want to cut BJP leaders into pieces; that is your personal choice. And, Yasin Malik may deserve rights. But, I want him to be arrested and tried by law. If only law fails; last option remains the most extreme one; which you seemed to suggest. Yasin Malik to us is a butcher, psychopath killer, uneducated & mindless terrorist. By reading out a crafted speech written by his 'mates' he doesn't prove to be a revolutionary or a intellectual. He had no option but to take to 'non-violence' or else he would have been the next killed. He wanted to enjoy perks of an 'agent'. It isn't a PR Exercise by us; but response to some grave misconceptions that people have. We have been trying on our part to approach Judiciary and as well Govt. to get him convicted; lets hope this happens soon. Hope you read the archives of www.kashmiris-in-exile.blogspot.com well. Moreover, Its quite strange that Naxalites show themselves as victims and fight, so are called rebels; Kashmiri Muslims show themselves as so called victims of Indian oppression and say we are fighting ''azaadi struggle' and are called freedom fighters.. but alas.! Kashmiri Pandits like democratic, peaceful human beings are just spreading awareness and are called pseudos...lolz Amusing! You have mixed too many things in your e-mail. Panun Kashmir is a political demand; one may not expect it to be carved out in a few days time. It is a demand by the minority community of J&K; and as important as any other demand in the region. Even formation of Jharkhand, Chattisgarh etc. was opposed by some stray elements. More so, the demand of 'aazad Kashmir' you talk about; has been hugely rejected and sidelined by the common citizens of J&K in the recently held elections with a high turnout. The separatist shops are closed and they are struggling to make ends meet. Need I say more ? We 'Kashmiri Pandits' were kind Human Beings all our lives; and perhaps even still are; but silence is what we got in return each time; even at the time of our 'ethnic cleansing'. Doors were shut, our neighbours and even the Indian Government became deaf, dumb and blind. On your comments on us Kashmiri Pandits; well let me just say 'Thank you'. Regards On 2/5/09, Rakesh Iyer wrote: > > Dear Aditya > > After reading your mail, I must certainly respond to certain points raised > in your mail. > > The first point is that of retribution. You have said that Yasin Malik > 'should know how it feels > when bullet passes through his empty skull!' . This is highly atrocious > according to me, as atrocious as the migration of Kashmiri Pandits was. > While I don't deny that the Pandits didn't deserve to be punished for being > Indians, it doesn't mean that if Yasin Malik first organized violence, then > retributive action must be pursued against him. This already speaks of your > own mentality. > > Mind you. It's not as if I don't feel retributive at all; there are times > when I feel that all BJP supporters should be cut down to pieces, and like > they organized Gujarat, all their supporters should be completely burnt in > an organized manner, so that they are never there back in the society. > However, I do realize, though somewhat late (fortunately this violent streak > in me never materializes), that this is not the way to go about solving such > problems. I don't agree with BJP, and those who follow it ideologically, but > they are also human beings and deserve dignity and right to life as much as > I do. > > But you seem to have completely forgotten that. As much as you deserve > dignity of life and right to life, Yasin Malik also deserves it. And if you > think that he is an animal, don't forget that animals also have rights in > today's times(PETA is one of the organizations fighting for animals' > rights). > > Secondly, doesn't a criminal deserve the chance to improve back on what he > did, and become a better human being? According to what I have heard, Yasin > Malik, was sentenced to jail in 1994-94, during which he had read 'My > Experiments With Truth' , the autobiography of Mahatma Gandhi, and after > reading it, asked JKLF, his own organization to lay down arms. Since then, > he has repeatedly asked for stopping of all violence, and also repeatedly > stated that Kashmiri Pandits should also be a part of 'azad' Kashmir. > Moreover, he has stated that violence doesn't lead to any solution; it leads > only to more violence. > > Now, coming back to your point. Thirdly, if Yasin Malik is responsible for > the rapes and killings in the Valley to begin with, which led to the exodus > of the Pandits on a large scale, there are cases pending against him. Get > those cases tried quickly, put pressure on the Indian Union, and get him > convicted if you have evidence to back your claim, instead of first > indulging in PR-exercise on sarai list, and following the tried and tested > policy of Bush and Modi, which is 'repeat a thing 1000 times, and it becomes > the truth'. If Malik is responsible for all this, can't you get him > sentenced in any case? Or is only repeating perceptions and spreading them > within your control, and getting him tried and convicted beyond your > control? > > Fourthly. From the way I have seen, it seems that Kashmiri Pandits always > want to put themselves up as victims to earn sympathies and brownie points > all the time. I have never seen these kind of comments from other kinds of > victims or refugees come up, be it Nandigram and Singur people who suffered > due to the machinisations of the Left Front Govt. of Bengal, nor be the > tribals who suffer in various states right from policies of development > which are flawed to the Salwa Judums and others; nor have I seen Muslims > complaining themselves so much about the conditions in which they are living > post-2002 riots. > > Who says Pandits haven't suffered? I dont' say that. And neither does > anyone on this list say that? But it seems that Pandits have decided that > any solution on Kashmir should only and only take them into account. As if > Pandits only are humans, and all the Kashmiri Muslims are inhumans. So today > they want Panun Kashmir, and it must be given to them on a platter, > disregarding the fact that a majority of population in Kashmir don't want > that. Similarly, what they want is justified, and if somebody has a view > contrary to that, he/she is either an anti-national or a terrorist. Why, may > I know that? > > I would suggest Pandits, to stop acting as citizens, and first of all act > as human beings. That would be better. Citizenship is an invention of > history, but human beings are not. At least learn humanity first. Try to > understand that even your 'opponents' in this case are human beings, and try > to inculcate teachings of your own religion (Hinduism) before propagating > any kind of violence against them. > > It doesn't mean you dont' ask for justice. It means that you don't ask for > retributive action against them. > > Regards > > Rakesh > -- -- Aditya Raj Kaul From rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 22:51:46 2009 From: rakesh.rnbdj at gmail.com (Rakesh Iyer) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 22:51:46 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: <6353c690902050842v54ffae3sdbc9a54615562019@mail.gmail.com> References: <776819.99479.qm@web57206.mail.re3.yahoo.com> <47e122a70902030616o735a281dn72f781916ebe25d0@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902030841h46c5c975rcf2c546473c869b7@mail.gmail.com> <6353c690902050842v54ffae3sdbc9a54615562019@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Aditya Your reply has raised certain questions and points in my mind, which I wish to express further. For your kind information, in Wikipedia, there is no such information as Yasin Malik saying that he read Gandhi's works to become 'non-violent'. I do agree that there are people like this who initially commit acts of violence, and then say that they have read something which has made them non-violent. However, the fact remains that if we go in the history of what happened in Kashmir since 1990, once insurgency started, it was Yasin Malik who was the first person to agree to talks with the Indian Union to get 'azadi' for Kashmir. And this is not the information from Wikipedia. This is something I have managed to get thanks to an important lecture I attended a few days ago, organized by PUCL, Tamil Nadu unit. Second. I have also read that Yasin Malik is infact a double agent of both the Indian and the Pakistani establishments, and he serves the purpose of both to embarass each other. Some actions have also been pointed out to this effect, where he has embarassed both Indian and Pakistani establishments in different actions. However, the way the statements have been put up is just casting aspersions on Malik itself. If there are facts pertaining to the fact that Malik indeed has contacts which he has been using, then they must be brought out in public. For after all, as law says, to prove any statement, the proof must be 'proof beyond doubt' to satisfy the case. Hence, the allegation against Malik that he is a 'stooge' of the Indian government, remains just that, a mere allegation, with nothing to substantiate it. As for the cases against Malik, let them be proved in court. And you could inform me if you can, about the progress in these cases. Third. When I talked about Singur, Gujarat and even say tribals, I was talking about the people who were actually facing the problem, not the NGO's or others at all. I accept that these people got great support from the NGO's and others, but the fact remains that in all these cases, these very people have also suffered a lot, and still they themselves didn't make as much noise as has been portrayed in media. Infact, each became famous thanks to incidents and entry of people who were famous. Singur became famous more so once Trinamool Congress entered the fray agitating for the local people. Gujarat became famous because of NGO's and English media entering in to cover the riots live (the local Gujarati media was involved in biased reporting, that too made it famous). And tribals have not managed to gain the attention of the media, because important political formations and/or the upper elites of society have not involved themselves in the struggle of the tribals. What I basically wanted to say was that, the Pandits have yes, been fighting for the cause of justice for the past 19-20 years. And yes, they may not have received any support from the NGO's or the government. But does that mean, that you can go on asking for retribution in the name of justice? And more importantly, if the govt. of India is willing to provide them houses in the Valley itself, why is it so that Pandits are not willing to return at all? Let me clearly state here. There has been a complete breakdown of trust between the Pandits and the Kashmiri Muslims. The incidents of 1990, whichever way one looks at it, has resulted in disastrous consequences of today. On one hand, Kashmiri Pandits have still not been able to return back to their homeland. On the other, Kashmiri Muslims have been subjected to living under an 'army state' where all freedoms have been clamped down on, which is against the very notion of 'democracy'. And for me, both are wrong. And the solution of Panun Kashmir, which you as a community have proposed(not all may be, but certainly some have put up this solution), is not the solution because it won't be backed by the Muslims living in the Valley, though I am not against putting it up for referendum. Similarly, the rights of minorities must be protected, and therefore the rights of Pandits to their homeland must be accepted. Therefore, the important thing is not only to ask for justice, but also in some sense, forgive people by not at least asking for death sentences by the Pandits on one hand, and by surrendering arms and voluntarily facing cases on the part of Kashmiri Muslims on the other (here I refer to those who took up arms, not those who didn' t do so). Secondly, there has to be a dialogue between both the communities to build trust for each other. That should be the path ahead for the return of Pandits. As I see it, I dont' see either of the steps having been taken uptill now. Can you at least, being one of the speakers for the Kashmiri Pandits (one of the many speakers, actually) tell whether you made efforts for the same? For after all, not all Muslims living in your very homeland area can be 'traitors'. And as you yourself accept, they are human beings. I haven't called you pseudos. What I say is that there's a limit to going around portraying yourself as a victim, to justify any action of yours. And finally one more thing. It has been time and again said that democratic elections in J&K are not the substitute for the dominant feeling of 'azadi', and the people there, majority of them want 'azadi', with or without Hurriyat. Since you (and I think many in rest of India) feel that this is not the case, I think that the Indian Union should better conduct a referendum in the Valley and make the results public to find out whether people really want azadi or not. If they want it, then better give it. If they don't want it, you can burn declare public holidays commemorating the same occasion, and can also burn my effigies. I have no problems for that effect. The reason why I ask for the referendum is this. If I am true, I know I will always win no matter how much someone conspires against me. Then why not let the truth win once again, if you believe (and so many in rest of India believe) that your side is true. Go ahead, and do it. And while I have no pain at all with Kashmiri Pandits raising their voice against the Indian Govt, what I have pain with is that the Pandits feel that only they are democratic, whereas the 'azadi struggle' is undemocratic. Infact, Kashmiris are now being painted by the brush of terrorism and being Pakistanis, whereby it is being stated that Kashmiris want to be Pakistanis. The fact is that as numerous surveys and interviews of common people bring out, they want to be independent of both India and Pakistanis. And more importantly, even in an azad Kashmir, I believe that Pandits deserve to have a place there. And therefore, I am not in favor of any independent state till any resolution of the place of Pandits in this new state and the local society is found. Regards Rakesh From alice at tank.tv Tue Feb 3 15:00:34 2009 From: alice at tank.tv (Alice O'Reilly) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:30:34 +0000 Subject: [Reader-list] www.tank.tv : Alexander Heim : 1st - 14th February 2009 Message-ID: <442eb4460902030130o4147093blbaefe0e530e01e0b@mail.gmail.com> *tank.tv is pleased to present a selection of work from Alexander Heim including: Costa, Three Seasons, Untitled (Dog), Grand Walk and Matalan. * "(Heim's) new film Costa (2008) tracks the daily activities of pigeons at a busy coffee shop, following one bird scratching about the feet of commuters, another skittering across a marble floor and a third bracing itself against the wind in a concrete ledge, solemn as an eagle. With painstaking care they hunt for the scraps between glinting metal chairs, clamber up gigantic steps and outwit oblivious shows. The look faintly ludicrous but supremely resourceful. The birds perspective translates familiar surrounding into foreign territory; a station concourse gleams like an immense frozen lake, its menacing cashpoint the mouth to hell; the complicated shadow of a railing is not a reminder of an environment shaped by caring human hands but a welcome rush-hour haven. In a city planned with no thought of pigeons as its users, these benighted tacticians are transcendent. (..) Heim strips away the literalness of everyday life, revealing the mysteries contained in the most commonplace. It is no coincidence that he selects the least loved of all birds to be the focus of this lyrical inquiry. The ubiquitous pigeon is emblematic of those inconsequential things that surround us, the routine stuff that so often goes unexamined. the result is no dour pronouncement by the artist on the fate of the dispossessed but a witty celebration of existence on the margins. The birds come across not as pitiable outcasts but as profound seekers after truth; driven by some internal compass they make their own way in the city, discovering their own paths, becoming poets of their own acts." *Kate Forde, Frieze, November 2008. * Alexander Heim studied at the Hochschule fur Bildende Kunste Hamburg, gaining a diploma in fine art in 2004, before completing an MFA at Goldsmiths College, London in 2006. Recent exhibitions include: 'Doves' at doggerfisher, Edinburgh; Feeling gave way to structure, The approach E2, London; Nought to Sixty, ICA, London and Drei Jahreszeiten (Three Seasons), Galerie Karin Guenther Hamburg. Alexander Heim currently lives and works in London. -- -- - - - - - - - - - - - - Alice O'Reilly tank.tv 2nd Floor Princess House 50 - 60 Eastcastle Street London W1W 8EA alice at tank.tv T: +44 (0)207323 3475 F: +44 (0)207631 4280 http://www.tank.tv - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Now showing: Alexander Heim 1st - 14th February 2009 'Fresh Moves' - Order your copy on www.tank.tv "A significant archive of creative practices in the early years of twenty-first century England" Tyler Coburn, Tomorrow Unlimited --- tank.tv is an inspirational showcase for innovative work in film and video. Dedicated to exhibiting and promoting emerging and established international artists, www.tank.tv acts as a major online gallery and archive for video art. A platform for contemporary moving images. From indersalim at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 23:17:24 2009 From: indersalim at gmail.com (indersalim) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 23:17:24 +0530 Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice In-Reply-To: References: <47e122a70902020709g47d9fac6x4be284809c28f1fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47e122a70902050947p71f2b442u248d3bd1b920196e@mail.gmail.com> Dear All i remember, some two years back i had posted the following piece here on the list. i am doing it again. i hope the debate on Kashmir opens a little more seriously than it is now. ......what ever is written is too predictable, too obvious,..... I want to hear something which stimulates my intellect. i am merely provoking ......may be i am playing selfishly...so, here it is once again: ................................................................................................................................... The day the Palestinians become a nation like other nations, I will no longer be on their side. Jean Genet THE OTHER I said to them, spontaneously Take away your Kashmir, Just take away, It is all yours. They laughed, then looked At each others faces with disbelief, But grabbed quickly: The Azadi Freedom in their hands was water As pure as one drinks At the beginning of a river. Their hands were as big as valley itself And they merrily moved towards Their homes like the river itself. This Freedom, still water like, Not a just born baby as yet, So they went to martyrs graves first. There they quenched the thirst of The Dead, who by technique Drank a water within this water. This freedom still water like, Had to be taken to a place like Secretariat, if one goes by Theory. But they instead kept on gazing at its Myriad faces, which perhaps delayed Its instant shelving into structures That was the time it revealed its Unpredictable face, which unnerved even Those who held it lovingly in their hands. Its sudden surge inundated all the Barbed wiring and dead walls; Crossing new frontiers. New thoughts, new soil and old Seeds were passing through the Alimentary canal of earth's friendly worms. All the excreta of all the animals unanimously dissolving their egos: 'Love' was declared: The only God. ( to be continued ) On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 2:34 AM, Lalit Ambardar wrote: > Coming from the author of such a touching presentation like "na ches taty, > na yeti"( i am neither there nor here) this attempt to surrect now almost > abandoned 'original sinner' who founded the 'gun' culture in the valley at > the behest of his Pakistani masters is intriguing. > > Kashmiris, in the past two decades have gone through the hell - > the selective brutal targetting that led to the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri > Hindu Pandits in the valley -the plight of ordinary Kashmiri Muslims who > were coerced in to following the jihadi diktats- the destruction of the very > social fabric called Kashmiriyat etc. etc.........& who claimed credit for > having ferried weapons in to Kashmir to launch the jihad - the one you are > trying to glorify. > > Please,understand he does not represent the Kashmiri Muslims - last year but > for the timely intervention of the security forces his cohorts would have > been lynched by the followers of that part time moolvi/separatist Umar > Farooq when JKLF wanted to open an outlet in the territory of Umar Farooq > only a couple of kilometres away from the JKLF fiefdom . > > The misery of exodus is not missed in your post but the frustration canot > be justify glorification of a terrorist . > > It is difficult to guess the motive that has driven a well qualified artist > towards a terror commander at whose instigation & motivation hundreds of > docile Kashmiri Muslims, in the name of Islam,embraced death leaving behind > their mothers ,widows & orphans wailling for their loved ones. > > It could be akin to the infatuation of that Napales damsel for that serial > 'bikini killer' or it is all in the name of jihad......????.... > > > Will marital bliss to this killer of Kashmiriyat make him repent for his > deeds .......???..... > > Or is this a ploy to generate sympathy to escape the law.....????.......or > part of a new game.....???..... > > Regards all > LA > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > >> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:39:25 +0530 >> From: indersalim at gmail.com >> To: reader-list at sarai.net >> Subject: [Reader-list] see some meaning in Yasin Malik's choice >> >> Dear all >> Please click the web site by Musaall Mullick, Fiancée of Yasin Malik, >> the well known 'rebel' leader from Jammu and Kashmir. I think it is >> interesting. >> >> http://mushaalmullick.com/default.aspx >> >> I have pasted this link, precisely to see some meaning in Yasin >> Malik's choice. One of Musaall's water colour is titled 'Shame of the >> Humanity'. It shows a young girl child who deserves all the attention. >> >> Yasin Malik has lot of admirers and critic around the world; that >> applies even to Kashmir valley. Only time will tell us how seriously >> he grasped the Kashmir issue. >> >> Perhaps, this latest step speaks something about his priorities. >> Certainly, if SAS Geelani, his Hurriyat colleague, was young and >> going to be married, he would not have chosen a girl like Musaall as >> his Shareek-e-Hayyat ( better half ), but some one who would prefer to >> stay behind veil all the time. >> >> One of the water colour of Musaall depicts a woman with a Bindi ( >> predominately used by Hindu women ). What does that mean? It means, a >> Swat Valley like situation is certainly not Yasin Malik's cup of tea, >> but something which has a space for freedom, freedom of choice, >> particularly for women. >> >> Only time will tell us whether Yasin's Malik's Safar-e-Azadi will take >> Kashmir on the path which is meaningful for both Musaall-Malik jodi >> but People in general as well. There is ray of hope hidden in his >> choice to wed a painter living in London. Imran Khan, the >> cricketer-politician did almost similar to that, but failed to mix his >> choice with his political vision. Will Yasin too follow Imran, or will >> he let Musaall speak her mind freely ? >> >> Kashmir is seriously looking forward to see someone who speaks boldly >> about the situation of women in J&K. For example, no woman in J&K has >> any legal rights to retain a square inch of land in case she happens >> to get married to a no