[Reader-list] FW: Guests in Vedavati's house

Vedavati Jogi vrjogi at hotmail.com
Mon Aug 20 12:34:14 IST 2007

From: vrjogi at hotmail.comTo: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in; reader-list at sarai.netSubject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's houseDate: Mon, 20 Aug 2007 04:52:10 +0000

Sorry fatima, I could not get back to you earlier as I was not in town. I read your mail very carefully, I too would love to discuss certain issues with you as  I am also interested in solutions.
I fully agree with you when you say that one must be tolerant & compassionate towards one’s countrymen. An Indian irrespective of his race, religion & creed who loves India and who has national interest foremost in his mind is my brother/sister. I worship war martyres like Abdul Hamid.  I love Rafi, Lata, Amitabh, Shahrukh, Sachin, Irfan, Sania etc. in equal measure. But when you say ‘being patriotic is not the only solution’ it surprises me, do you expect me to be tolerant towards person like Yasin malik?
To prove one’s secular credentials do you think it is necessary to sypathise with Afzal Guru only because he is a Muslim?
Secondly you have said that majority of Muslims did not want to join Pakistan but they had to migrate to pakistan to escape violence. Here I beg to differ . This may be a ‘secular’ History written by Congress or Left parties. But real History tells something else. When Jinnah was a follower of Lokmanya Tilak and wanted to be known as ‘Gokhale’ of Muslim community, Muslims did not look upon him as their leader moreover he was sidelined even humiliated by Mahatma Gandhi who preffered to join hands with Ali brothers. 
( This policy  prevails even today – A truly secular Muslim leader Arif Mohammad Khan is not acceptable to Muslims as well as Seculars )
Its an unfortunate fact that when Jinnah became religious fanatic and demanded Pakistan Muslims wholeheartedly supported him without which Pakistan would not have been a reality. Jinnah alone could not have achieved it. But majority of Muslims stayed back in India because their daily bread & butter was here. You have mentioned the plight of many muslims who had to migrate to Pak only to suffer. But what about those 20 million Hindoos who were killed, wounded, raped & thrown out of Pakistan? 
One major difference was while in Pakistan even head of the state the then PM Liyakat Ali was encouraging & supporting his countrymen in wiping out Hindoos from Pak;  here in India Mahatma stood between Muslims & Hindoos and protected the former with the help of his ultimate weapon ‘Upwas’ (which he had never dared to use against Muslims.)
Fatima I don’t have anything against Muslims who stayed back in India. Plight of poor muslims and that of poor Hindoos is same. But if muslims have chosen to stay in India it is their resposibility to accept ‘Uniform civil code’ or ‘Family planning’.  It appears they can understand only their rights like reservations & implementation of Sacchar committee report. But with rights comes responsibility too. 
What is practised in India is not secularism, it is minoritism which is the mother of secessionism. Instead of sending their children to Madarrasa muslims should send their children to regional language or english medium schools. Secondly nobody has stopped them from giving equal rights to their female folks. To preserve their separate identity they don’t do that. And unfortunately this separatism gets political nourishment. Wherever  muslims are in minority they are very demanding, and when they become majority community then ‘pakistan’ happens, ‘kashmir’ happens’. You may or may not accept it, but it is hightime muslims changed their ways. 
 > Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 08:26:03 +0100> From: sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: RE: Guests in Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com; reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want to indulge in any sweet goody-goody> principles nor ridicule your thoughts. I am honestly> interested in a dialogue for resolving issues. And I> would love to engage in a debate with you if we both> are interested in solutions. I feel that being> patriotic or nationalistic towards your homeland is> not the only solution. Being tolerant and> compassionate towards your fellow countrymen would be> more preferable.> > I said in my previous mail that I understand the pain> of all those who have been affected by the violence,> hatred and displacement, whether Hindus or Muslims.> Partition did not affect only the Hindus. Majority of> Muslims did not want Pakistan (this has been proven> historically), and had to migrate to escape the> violence. You may go and see the plight of many> migrated Muslims who left their home in India to go to> Pakistan - they still suffer. Both communities have> equally suffered, especially in Kashmir - do you agree> with me on that? If you tell me whether you agree or> disagree on this, we'll discuss it further. Let us use> this forum for a healthy debate rather than a> stone-pelting excercise. (And I take back any words> that may have hurt you.)> > S.F.> > --- Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com> wrote:> > > > > it may appear childish but i can't help it.> > > > it is very easy to show liberalism, secularism( not> > with its true essence, i am talking about typical> > indian secularism), tolerance towards terrorists> > when you are not at the receiving end. my husband> > being a kashmiri pundit, lost his ancestral property> > in shrinagar, many of his relatives are still> > staying in refugee camps, (and our secular leaders,> > filmwalas have not got time in last 18 years to> > visit those camps), two of his best friends were> > gunned down by yasin malik, they were 'punished' by> > the latter for being members of rss. (please don't> > say that he worshipped mahatma hence he killed the> > rss members.)> > and if we decide to apply same logic then hindus> > should also start killing members of muslim league> > because they partitioned our country. > > > > all you seculars who keep ridiculing my thoughts on> > nationalism imagine yourself in the group of> > kashmiri migrants or 1947 sindhi-punjabi migrants> > who were advised by mahatma to go back to their> > motherland and get abused/killed by muslims in> > pakistan.> > and then talk about these sweet/goody-goody> > principles> > > > vedavati> > > Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2007 14:54:02 +0100> From:> > sadiafwahidi at yahoo.co.in> Subject: Guests in> > Vedavati's house> To: vrjogi at hotmail.com;> > reader-list at sarai.net> > Dear Vedavati> I don't want> > to offend you, but your analogy sounds> too childish> > to be taken seriously (although I don't> mean to> > demean children by saying that!). The complex>> > history of south Asia cannot be trivialized like> > that.> Even if we could use this analogy, then, I> > think our> house has been so huge and so resourceful> > that it> didn't mind having a few guests from> > outside taking> refuge in it. And they didn't come> > as guests - they> came to do trade and business,> > just as your (and my)> brethren and sistren go to> > America to becomes NRIs.> Now, once these> > "outsiders" decided to call it their> home, they are> > no longer outsiders (whether they are> born here or> > came from outside). As a matter of fact,> how can> > even you prove that you are an "insider". Just>> > because you are a Hindu? > > Having said that, now> > let's talk about the guests> taking over the house> > and asking the owners to leave.> Yes, if they do so,> > it is wrong. (But remember, no one> can claim to be> > the "original" resident of this house> - its been> > too damn long to argue on that). So, you> have no> > authority to ask Shuddha or me to leave the> country> > if we do not subscribe to the hollow words> called> > Patriotism and Nationalism.> > I am not commenting> > on any specific case (such Sanjay> Kak's film, which> > I haven't seen). But in general, I> believe that the> > exodus of the pundits from Kashmir is> a sorry> > affair, and if one has to find a long-term> solution> > to the Kashmir problem, it must involve the>> > re-location of Kashmiri pundits safely in their>> > original homes. But at the same time, the brutality>> > suffered by the innocent Kashmiri Muslims at the> > hands> of Indian forces cannot be wished away. And> > if Kak's> film (or anyone else) does take sides,> > then it is> bound to lead to this kind of situation.> > Let us stop> taking sides and come to the middle> > ground if need to> resolve any of our conficts.> >> > S.Fatima> > > --- Vedavati Jogi <vrjogi at hotmail.com>> > wrote:> > > I will try to answer this question, > >> > > > Imagine a situation, 10 people, say your friends> > or> > distant relatives come to your house & start> > staying> > with you, they expect you to accomodate> > them> > permanently, they expect you to do> > everything for> > them, they try to do away with> > your wife's/mother's> > authority & establish their> > supremacy in the> > kitchen. > > And ultimately they> > ask you to leave your house &> > take refuge> > elsewhere.......... Can you afford to be> > liberal> > in this case? Will you not try to protect> > the> > rights of your wife/mother?> > Be honest & give me> > the reply!> > > > These guests are outsiders and you> > will definitely> > try to throw them out. In a way> > you are showing> > narrowmindedness but you can't do> > without that.> > Because that is not in your> > family's interest.> > > > Same thing is applicable> > to your nation. > > 'Nationalism means doing> > everything which is in the> > interest of your> > country' (e.g killing terrorists in> > Kashmir or> > flushing out Bangladeshi Muslims from> > Bengal or> > Assam.)> > > > Still if you say that 'you are> > neither a nationalist> > nor a patriot' then I am> > sorry to say so, but you> > have no right to stay in> > my country! > > > > Vedavati> > > > > > Do you get> > hundreds of mails everyday? Delete none. 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